When Jesus..........

[UllysesS.Archer]

Both Roman Mithraism, like Iranian Mithraism were cults of loyalty toward its king.

they did however differ greatly....all of the comparisons you claim between Mithraism and Christianity exist only in the post-Christian Roman Mithraism and not in the pre-Christian Mithraism.....sorry......
Refuting Mithras Myth Parallelism To Christianity With All I Am

It's funny how the goyim use the Torah which the have no knowledge of to prove the mamzer jesus son of mary the hairdresser and whore and a roman solder was a godman
Why Jews Don t Believe In Jesus why Jews reject Jesus

 

[shart_attack]

LoL whoops my bad I thought I was teaching the saints God's revelation in the Word by the Holy Spirit.

I'm not familiar with all the apostatic religions that lump themselves under the umbrella of Christianity. I never bothered to learn about what the difference is between all their false teachings.

I'm guessing JWs?

Yeah, no joke. That much is painstakingly and tragically obvious — particularly in light of some of the Freudian slips you make about Jews and Judaism.

That's why you should read this book:

Unholy Alliance A History of Nazi Involvement with the Occult Peter Levenda 9780826414090 Amazon.com Books

Lotsa so-called "Christians" in post-WWI Germany thought they knew the Bible, too.

But they didn't.

And witness how the most evil man of the 20th Century was able to manipulate them because of it.

It can happen again.

 

[MaxGrit]

"They fought to retain the notion of a human will in Christ. In their view, Christ actively resisted temptations and did good until he atoned for sin both through his death and by the example of his good works. By so doing, he showed ordinary people the way of salvation and offered the potential for human nature to be raised to the level of the divine. To use the title of one of the most famous Christian texts ever written, the Imitation of Christ, is not just possible but demanded. When modern liberal theologians protest that the exalted divine image of Jesus places his ethical teachings beyond attainable reach, they are reviving one of the oldest debates in Christendom.

The best way to understand the issue is to have Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Then ask the Holy Spirit what the truth is.

At that time you will know why modern liberal theologians protest for naught. They seek God by their own effort, in their ivory towers of knowledge and learning, amassing knowledge without comprehension.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Satan isn't an automaton in that Satan also had the illusion of freewill that God allows Satan to have. Satan, in his pride, thought he could become like God.

Satan was made insane by sin, a finite creature that thinks he's equal to the infinite Creator.

Isaiah 14

When the Lord has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

“How the oppressor has ceased,
the insolent fury ceased!
The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked,
the scepter of rulers,
that struck the peoples in wrath
with unceasing blows,
that ruled the nations in anger
with unrelenting persecution.
The whole earth is at rest and quiet;
they break forth into singing.
The cypresses rejoice at you,
the cedars of Lebanon, saying,
‘Since you were laid low,
no woodcutter comes up against us.’
Sheol beneath is stirred up
to meet you when you come;
it rouses the shades to greet you,
all who were leaders of the earth;
it raises from their thrones
all who were kings of the nations.
All of them will answer
and say to you:
‘You too have become as weak as we!
You have become like us!’
Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
the sound of your harps;
maggots are laid as a bed beneath you,
and worms are your covers.
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,
who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’
All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
each in his own tomb;
but you are cast out, away from your grave,
like a loathed branch,
clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword,
who go down to the stones of the pit,
like a dead body trampled underfoot.
You will not be joined with them in burial,
because you have destroyed your land,
you have slain your people.
“May the offspring of evildoers
nevermore be named!
Prepare slaughter for his sons
because of the guilt of their fathers,
lest they rise and possess the earth,
and fill the face of the world with cities.”

1. Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Specifically, the Bible says he will:

1. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
2. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
3. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
4. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

You sure do make it easy to prove you a fool, Guno.

Revelation 1:7BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. 8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

You played right into my wheelhouse, Revelation, and Daniel are my favorite Books. And Revelation 1:7 is one of my favorite Passages, for it says, even the dead, will see Jesus come back, and every knee will bow before Him, even yours Guno, you won't want to, but you will anyway, then you will cry like a baby. I sincerely hope you get right, Guno, before it's too late.

 

[MaxGrit]

Satan, in his pride, thought he could become like God. Satan was made insane by sin, a finite creature that thinks he's equal to the infinite Creator.

Isaiah 14

When the Lord has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

“How the oppressor has ceased,
the insolent fury ceased!
The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked,
the scepter of rulers,
that struck the peoples in wrath
with unceasing blows,
that ruled the nations in anger
with unrelenting persecution.
The whole earth is at rest and quiet;
they break forth into singing.
The cypresses rejoice at you,
the cedars of Lebanon, saying,
‘Since you were laid low,
no woodcutter comes up against us.’
Sheol beneath is stirred up
to meet you when you come;
it rouses the shades to greet you,
all who were leaders of the earth;
it raises from their thrones
all who were kings of the nations.
All of them will answer
and say to you:
‘You too have become as weak as we!
You have become like us!’
Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
the sound of your harps;
maggots are laid as a bed beneath you,
and worms are your covers.
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,
who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’
All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
each in his own tomb;
but you are cast out, away from your grave,
like a loathed branch,
clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword,
who go down to the stones of the pit,
like a dead body trampled underfoot.
You will not be joined with them in burial,
because you have destroyed your land,
you have slain your people.
“May the offspring of evildoers
nevermore be named!
Prepare slaughter for his sons
because of the guilt of their fathers,
lest they rise and possess the earth,
and fill the face of the world with cities.”

It says "the King of Babylon" and says nothing about Satan.
​

King of Babylon is a title of Satan, the insane slanderer. Satan has insanity of the highest degree, enough that he slandered God. Satan was made insane by sin.


“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,
who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’

 

[MaxGrit]

LoL whoops my bad I thought I was teaching the saints God's revelation in the Word by the Holy Spirit.

I'm not familiar with all the apostatic religions that lump themselves under the umbrella of Christianity. I never bothered to learn about what the difference is between all their false teachings.

I'm guessing JWs?

Yeah, no joke. That much is painstakingly and tragically obvious — particularly in light of some of the Freudian slips you make about Jews and Judaism.

I'm asking if you are a JW?

Do you know what Freudian slips are? Can you explain the meaning of the phrase "Freudian slip"?

BTW I was referring to the Jews back when Jesus came and they rejected him as Messiah. Which means that those Jews and their beliefs (Judaism) were wrong then, and they (Judaism) have been wrong since that time.

 

[shart_attack]

"They fought to retain the notion of a human will in Christ. In their view, Christ actively resisted temptations and did good until he atoned for sin both through his death and by the example of his good works. By so doing, he showed ordinary people the way of salvation and offered the potential for human nature to be raised to the level of the divine. To use the title of one of the most famous Christian texts ever written, the Imitation of Christ, is not just possible but demanded. When modern liberal theologians protest that the exalted divine image of Jesus places his ethical teachings beyond attainable reach, they are reviving one of the oldest debates in Christendom.

The best way to understand the issue is to have Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Then ask the Holy Spirit what the truth is.

At that time you will know why modern liberal theologians protest for naught. They seek God by their own effort, in their ivory towers of knowledge and learning, amassing knowledge without comprehension.

Why single out liberals?

Conservatives do the same things.

And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you don't realize that.

 

[MaxGrit]

"They fought to retain the notion of a human will in Christ. In their view, Christ actively resisted temptations and did good until he atoned for sin both through his death and by the example of his good works. By so doing, he showed ordinary people the way of salvation and offered the potential for human nature to be raised to the level of the divine. To use the title of one of the most famous Christian texts ever written, the Imitation of Christ, is not just possible but demanded. When modern liberal theologians protest that the exalted divine image of Jesus places his ethical teachings beyond attainable reach, they are reviving one of the oldest debates in Christendom.

The best way to understand the issue is to have Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Then ask the Holy Spirit what the truth is.

At that time you will know why modern liberal theologians protest for naught. They seek God by their own effort, in their ivory towers of knowledge and learning, amassing knowledge without comprehension.

Why single out liberals?

Conservatives do the same things.

And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you don't realize that.

Seriously having doubts about your cognitive ability to follow the complex ideas I am presenting.

"When modern liberal theologians protest that the exalted divine image of Jesus places his ethical teachings beyond attainable reach, they are reviving one of the oldest debates in Christendom."

 

[shart_attack]

LoL whoops my bad I thought I was teaching the saints God's revelation in the Word by the Holy Spirit.

I'm not familiar with all the apostatic religions that lump themselves under the umbrella of Christianity. I never bothered to learn about what the difference is between all their false teachings.

I'm guessing JWs?

Yeah, no joke. That much is painstakingly and tragically obvious — particularly in light of some of the Freudian slips you make about Jews and Judaism.

I'm asking if you are a JW?

No offense, but your posts haven't yet made enough of a lasting impression on me for me to remember exactly what this "JW" acronym to which you're referring is.

Do you know what Freudian slips are? Can you explain the meaning of the phrase "Freudian slip"?

It's what you subconsciously do when you make statements like this, in post #22 of this thread:

Jews are wrong for the past two thousand years and will keep on being wrong until the end of the age.

Freudian Slip - Definition of Psychology Terms

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." — Matthew 7:20

 

[shart_attack]

"They fought to retain the notion of a human will in Christ. In their view, Christ actively resisted temptations and did good until he atoned for sin both through his death and by the example of his good works. By so doing, he showed ordinary people the way of salvation and offered the potential for human nature to be raised to the level of the divine. To use the title of one of the most famous Christian texts ever written, the Imitation of Christ, is not just possible but demanded. When modern liberal theologians protest that the exalted divine image of Jesus places his ethical teachings beyond attainable reach, they are reviving one of the oldest debates in Christendom.

The best way to understand the issue is to have Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Then ask the Holy Spirit what the truth is.

At that time you will know why modern liberal theologians protest for naught. They seek God by their own effort, in their ivory towers of knowledge and learning, amassing knowledge without comprehension.

Why single out liberals?

Conservatives do the same things.

And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you don't realize that.

Seriously having doubts about your cognitive ability to follow the complex ideas I am presenting.

Yeah, no joke.

And the risk of my sounding arrogant be damned, that's because you aren't anywhere near as knowledgeable about The Scriptures as you'd like us to believe that you are.

"When modern liberal theologians protest that the exalted divine image of Jesus places his ethical teachings beyond attainable reach, they are reviving one of the oldest debates in Christendom."

Where'd you cut and paste that from, smart guy?

 

[MaxGrit]

Yeah, no joke.

And that's because you aren't anywhere near as knowledgeable about The Scriptures as you'd like us to believe that you are.



Where'd you cut and paste that from, smart guy?

wtf?

That was what I was replying to.

Why would you bash my knowledge?

I literally just stated that knowledge without comprehension is not good.

 

[September]

Satan, in his pride, thought he could become like God. Satan was made insane by sin, a finite creature that thinks he's equal to the infinite Creator.

Isaiah 14

When the Lord has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

“How the oppressor has ceased,
the insolent fury ceased!
The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked,
the scepter of rulers,
that struck the peoples in wrath
with unceasing blows,
that ruled the nations in anger
with unrelenting persecution.
The whole earth is at rest and quiet;
they break forth into singing.
The cypresses rejoice at you,
the cedars of Lebanon, saying,
‘Since you were laid low,
no woodcutter comes up against us.’
Sheol beneath is stirred up
to meet you when you come;
it rouses the shades to greet you,
all who were leaders of the earth;
it raises from their thrones
all who were kings of the nations.
All of them will answer
and say to you:
‘You too have become as weak as we!
You have become like us!’
Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
the sound of your harps;
maggots are laid as a bed beneath you,
and worms are your covers.
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,
who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’
All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
each in his own tomb;
but you are cast out, away from your grave,
like a loathed branch,
clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword,
who go down to the stones of the pit,
like a dead body trampled underfoot.
You will not be joined with them in burial,
because you have destroyed your land,
you have slain your people.
“May the offspring of evildoers
nevermore be named!
Prepare slaughter for his sons
because of the guilt of their fathers,
lest they rise and possess the earth,
and fill the face of the world with cities.”

It says "the King of Babylon" and says nothing about Satan.
​

King of Babylon is a title of Satan, the insane slanderer. Satan has insanity of the highest degree, enough that he slandered God. Satan was made insane by sin.

That is only an interpretation, loosely based on scripture. It is not scripture itself. It is far more likely that this passage was referring to a mortal being, even as some translations of that passage refer to the King of Babylon as "Lucifer". This passage is the only place in the entire Bible that such a name can be found, and there is absolutely no Biblical proof that the names "Lucifer" and "Satan" are mentioning the same being.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that "Satan has insanity of the highest degree", or that "Satan was made insane by sin". You are clearly preaching yet another inaccurate interpretation loosely based on scripture.​

 

[shart_attack]

Yeah, no joke.

And that's because you aren't anywhere near as knowledgeable about The Scriptures as you'd like us to believe that you are.

Where'd you cut and paste that from, smart guy?

wtf?

Interestingly and incidentally enough, that has by and large been my sentiment with the majority of your posts.

The difference?

I understand The Scriptures: you do not.

Imagine that.

 

[shart_attack]

Satan, in his pride, thought he could become like God. Satan was made insane by sin, a finite creature that thinks he's equal to the infinite Creator.

Isaiah 14

When the Lord has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

“How the oppressor has ceased,
the insolent fury ceased!
The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked,
the scepter of rulers,
that struck the peoples in wrath
with unceasing blows,
that ruled the nations in anger
with unrelenting persecution.
The whole earth is at rest and quiet;
they break forth into singing.
The cypresses rejoice at you,
the cedars of Lebanon, saying,
‘Since you were laid low,
no woodcutter comes up against us.’
Sheol beneath is stirred up
to meet you when you come;
it rouses the shades to greet you,
all who were leaders of the earth;
it raises from their thrones
all who were kings of the nations.
All of them will answer
and say to you:
‘You too have become as weak as we!
You have become like us!’
Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
the sound of your harps;
maggots are laid as a bed beneath you,
and worms are your covers.
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,
who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’
All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
each in his own tomb;
but you are cast out, away from your grave,
like a loathed branch,
clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword,
who go down to the stones of the pit,
like a dead body trampled underfoot.
You will not be joined with them in burial,
because you have destroyed your land,
you have slain your people.
“May the offspring of evildoers
nevermore be named!
Prepare slaughter for his sons
because of the guilt of their fathers,
lest they rise and possess the earth,
and fill the face of the world with cities.”

It says "the King of Babylon" and says nothing about Satan

King of Babylon is a title of Satan, the insane slanderer. Satan has insanity of the highest degree, enough that he slandered God. Satan was made insane by sin.

That is only an interpretation, loosely based on scripture. It is not scripture itself. This passage was far more likely to be in referring to a mortal being, even as some translations of that passage mention "Lucifer". This passage is the only place on the entire Bible that such a name can be found, with absolutely no scriptural link between the name "Lucifer" and "Satan".

The text in bold and underlined is the only part of your paragraph with which I disagree.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that "Satan has insanity of the highest degree", or that "Satan was made insane by sin". You are clearly preaching yet another inaccurate interpretation loosely based on scripture.

Impressive.

So because I disagree with one sentence in your post, I cannot agree with the post's entirety.

Your knowledge of The Scriptures is to me very admirable, though.

 

[deltex1]

tells a parable or utters a pronouncement, do those words come directly from the mind of God, or are they the thoughts of an individual bound by his constraints of his time and place?


I pulled this question from a book and thought it would make for an interesting discussion.

I'm thinking, Jesus IS God...so His thoughts are FROM God.

The atheist disagrees with me. Whodathunk it?

 

[Snouter]

tells a parable or utters a pronouncement, do those words come directly from the mind of God, or are they the thoughts of an individual bound by his constraints of his time and place?

Yahweh, Jesus's father, who was himself, plagiarized a lot of the material. That is why some is so confusing since it was written about a hundred years after he allegedly died.

 

[Disir]

Ok, so Jesus is divine and not human and divine.

I use to believe in the trinity, but I no longer do. Jesus is very introspective as he likes to spend much time in meditation and prayer, which he teaches to his disciples. So Jesus is human.

In the years before the introduction of the Christian religion, Roman inhabitants of the empire worshipped the god Mithra for close to well over 400 years. Mithraism was regarded as the primary closing religion of the Roman Empire, and later eventually becoming the principal ranked competing rival to Christianity after its uprising.



The first written mention of Mitra dates back around 3,500 years in the Hindu Vedas, and then assumingly spread to Persia and reached west throughout the entire length of the Roman border to Scotland. It is still regarded as one of the most universal religions and greatest mystery cults in the Western World. Its mysteries that spread by the Romans likewise had a large significant importance on the development of early Christianity during its first four centuries.



Both Roman Mithraism, like Iranian Mithraism were cults of loyalty toward its king. Many prominent Roman figures were among its initiates, and were encouraged by various Roman emperors, such as Commodus, Aurelian, Diocletian, Galerius and Licinius.



In 307, a temple was even dedicated to Mithra and he officially became the "Protector of the Empire". The birthday of Mithra furthermore occurred during the Winter Solstice that celebrated the Natalis Solis Invicti onDecember 25th. This large celebration was known for signaling the birth of a young Sun god who sprang from a rock or a cave in the form of a newborn infant.



His triumph and ascension was celebrated at Easter, and as being the god of light, he also preformed the usual assortment of miracles; such as raising the dead, healing the sick, and casting out devils. Before returning to heaven, he celebrated a last supper with his 12 disciples on the zodiac. In memory of this, his worshippers partook in a sacramental meal of bread marked with a cross. It was called mizd, Latin missa, Greek maza, English mass.

In 313 CE, the official birthday of Jesus in alignment with Mithra also became December 25th. In the year 375 CE, Pope Julius I likewise declared the Nativity of the birth of Jesus as December 25th to align followers of the Sun god Mithra. This event became the very motivation as to why Jesus received his official birth anniversary on December 25th in accordance of the ancient pagan resurrecting solar godman in the Roman Empire, as before that, no one knew of his historical birth. St. Augustine even went as far as declaring that the priests of Mithra worshipped the same deity as he did.



Paul equally attested to knowing nothing about Jesus' birth, ministry and healings, which was alarming, as the origins of Christianity itself derive from Paul, and not Jesus. Paul doesn't even quote anything that Jesus is alleged to have said, nor did any of Jesus' original twelve disciples write of his teaching.



Afterwards, St. Augustine wrote that Christians ought not to celebrate Jesus' birth, like the heathens do on account of the Sun, but rather on account of god who made the Sun. The early Jesus was regarded so much a Sun god himself to the ancients, that the term Jesus of Nazareth (Nazaroth) in Hebrew is actually the twelve signs of the zodiac. No city by this name existed during this time. A church council further declared that it would be wrong to celebrate the birthday of Jesus as though he were a King Pharaoh.



Eventually though, this festival of "Christmas" became a civic holiday by the emperor Justinian where the events became so customary that it begun marking the beginning of the ceremonial year for Christians. The use of giving gifts, holly, mistletoe, yule logs, fruitcake, ringing bells, candles, wassail bowls, and decorating a tree however all derived from early pagan customs.



Many European countries still call this celebration "Yuletide" (or wheel of the Sun) A harvesting festival celebrated at the end of the year. None of which derive from Christian origins.

The Vatican / RCC still worships the sun god and the demon god they worship Mary comes from the early temple worship of the goddess Diana I am told. The apparitions and messages from the demon are all a lie to deceive the people who do not realize the truth about the Catholic organization. Same demon - mary demon - and is also referred to as "Queen of heaven". It is all of the occult and has nothing to do with the early church, Guno, because the Romans slaughtered the early Christians and would not permit the Bible to be read - the entire religion is based on the worship of Lucifer and demons. It has nothing to do with Christianity. In closing during the inquistions who did the Romans murder again? The Christians and the Jews. In the Holocaust who was friendly with Hitler and the Nazis and even assisted Nazis in their escape to Argentina? The Vatican and namely the Jesuits assisted the Nazis. It is evil at its roots. Nothing Christian about it. I have great sympathy for the people who were born into the Roman Catholic Church - I was also born into a family that was staunch Roman Catholics - by God's grace I never accepted it and refused to take it seriously even as a young child I rejected it and saw through it. By the Grace of God I was not deceived by Lucifer. To God be the Glory.

The Romans didn't slaughter the early Christians. In fact, it was the Spanish Inquisition. OK. It's all deranged. Have you thought about taking a small break?

Excuse me, Disir, but yes they did. Nero had Rome set on fire and then blamed it on the protestant Christians in order to destroy them. The Christians were fed to the lions by the Romans. What history books are you reading anyhow?

I have a Jewish friend who wrote about the Inquisition and would strongly disagree with you as it was indeed the Catholic Church that approved the tortures, the murders, burning people at the stake, burying them alive,( nailing the tongues of Christians to the roofs of the mouths you will find on internet - the stories too ) and again with the Holocaust there were millions of born again Christians who went to their deaths with the Jews rather than to save their own lives.

Have I ever thought of taking a small break? Would a soldier on the front lines take a small break? God forbid, Disir! God forbid!

Nero didn't set Rome on fire. Most of the structures were wooden. They were prone to fire. Since Nero's palace was burned as well it is unlikely that he started the fire. He wasn't even in Rome when it started. There were very few actual Christian Martyrs. Recent excavations in the Colosseum show what has been suspected-that it didn't happen. The accounts were written about a century afterward. Nor would there have ever been any way to differentiate between Catholics and Protestants at that time.

Further, witch burnings and hangings were carried out by Protestants as well. Nice try.

The Catholic church aided and abetted Nazi's and afterwards transferred several to Argentina. Which the US knew about. In fact, there were several top tier people that actively attempted to keep the Jewish people from entering the US. As did Britain.

You have lost your mind.

 

[Disir]

tells a parable or utters a pronouncement, do those words come directly from the mind of God, or are they the thoughts of an individual bound by his constraints of his time and place?


I pulled this question from a book and thought it would make for an interesting discussion.

I'm thinking, Jesus IS God...so His thoughts are FROM God.

The atheist disagrees with me. Whodathunk it?

tells a parable or utters a pronouncement, do those words come directly from the mind of God, or are they the thoughts of an individual bound by his constraints of his time and place?


I pulled this question from a book and thought it would make for an interesting discussion.

Impossible to answer. If we can't prove or disprove God exists, skipping over that kinda important step to then ask a related question is...I dunno what it'd be called, but I'm sure there's a term for it. It's like "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" Need to establish some things first, do angels exist, do they dance, how big is an angel and the pin, etc.

Not believing Yeshua was any relative of God nor God itself, I'd say it's all Yeshua's thoughts.

Like I said earlier, it's the One Nature/Two Nature debate.

Not at all. There is no debate.

God is not a man that he should lie nor the son of man that he should repent. Let God be true and man be found a liar. ( those who disagree with God and His Word ) Amen.

I don't think you grasp this or where it came from,.

1. First Council of Nicea (325 CE)
2. First Council of Constantinople (381 CE)
3. Council of Ephesus (431 CE)
4. Second Council of Ephesus (449 CE) Also referred to as the Gangster Synod
5. Council of Chalcedon (451 CE)
6. Second Council of Constantinople (553 CE)
7. Third Council of Constantinople (553 CE)
8. Second Council of Nicea (787 CE)

All of the above indicates that your one nature comes from the Catholic Church.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Ok, so Jesus is divine and not human and divine.

I use to believe in the trinity, but I no longer do. Jesus is very introspective as he likes to spend much time in meditation and prayer, which he teaches to his disciples. So Jesus is human.

In the years before the introduction of the Christian religion, Roman inhabitants of the empire worshipped the god Mithra for close to well over 400 years. Mithraism was regarded as the primary closing religion of the Roman Empire, and later eventually becoming the principal ranked competing rival to Christianity after its uprising.



The first written mention of Mitra dates back around 3,500 years in the Hindu Vedas, and then assumingly spread to Persia and reached west throughout the entire length of the Roman border to Scotland. It is still regarded as one of the most universal religions and greatest mystery cults in the Western World. Its mysteries that spread by the Romans likewise had a large significant importance on the development of early Christianity during its first four centuries.



Both Roman Mithraism, like Iranian Mithraism were cults of loyalty toward its king. Many prominent Roman figures were among its initiates, and were encouraged by various Roman emperors, such as Commodus, Aurelian, Diocletian, Galerius and Licinius.



In 307, a temple was even dedicated to Mithra and he officially became the "Protector of the Empire". The birthday of Mithra furthermore occurred during the Winter Solstice that celebrated the Natalis Solis Invicti onDecember 25th. This large celebration was known for signaling the birth of a young Sun god who sprang from a rock or a cave in the form of a newborn infant.



His triumph and ascension was celebrated at Easter, and as being the god of light, he also preformed the usual assortment of miracles; such as raising the dead, healing the sick, and casting out devils. Before returning to heaven, he celebrated a last supper with his 12 disciples on the zodiac. In memory of this, his worshippers partook in a sacramental meal of bread marked with a cross. It was called mizd, Latin missa, Greek maza, English mass.

In 313 CE, the official birthday of Jesus in alignment with Mithra also became December 25th. In the year 375 CE, Pope Julius I likewise declared the Nativity of the birth of Jesus as December 25th to align followers of the Sun god Mithra. This event became the very motivation as to why Jesus received his official birth anniversary on December 25th in accordance of the ancient pagan resurrecting solar godman in the Roman Empire, as before that, no one knew of his historical birth. St. Augustine even went as far as declaring that the priests of Mithra worshipped the same deity as he did.



Paul equally attested to knowing nothing about Jesus' birth, ministry and healings, which was alarming, as the origins of Christianity itself derive from Paul, and not Jesus. Paul doesn't even quote anything that Jesus is alleged to have said, nor did any of Jesus' original twelve disciples write of his teaching.



Afterwards, St. Augustine wrote that Christians ought not to celebrate Jesus' birth, like the heathens do on account of the Sun, but rather on account of god who made the Sun. The early Jesus was regarded so much a Sun god himself to the ancients, that the term Jesus of Nazareth (Nazaroth) in Hebrew is actually the twelve signs of the zodiac. No city by this name existed during this time. A church council further declared that it would be wrong to celebrate the birthday of Jesus as though he were a King Pharaoh.



Eventually though, this festival of "Christmas" became a civic holiday by the emperor Justinian where the events became so customary that it begun marking the beginning of the ceremonial year for Christians. The use of giving gifts, holly, mistletoe, yule logs, fruitcake, ringing bells, candles, wassail bowls, and decorating a tree however all derived from early pagan customs.



Many European countries still call this celebration "Yuletide" (or wheel of the Sun) A harvesting festival celebrated at the end of the year. None of which derive from Christian origins.

The Vatican / RCC still worships the sun god and the demon god they worship Mary comes from the early temple worship of the goddess Diana I am told. The apparitions and messages from the demon are all a lie to deceive the people who do not realize the truth about the Catholic organization. Same demon - mary demon - and is also referred to as "Queen of heaven". It is all of the occult and has nothing to do with the early church, Guno, because the Romans slaughtered the early Christians and would not permit the Bible to be read - the entire religion is based on the worship of Lucifer and demons. It has nothing to do with Christianity. In closing during the inquistions who did the Romans murder again? The Christians and the Jews. In the Holocaust who was friendly with Hitler and the Nazis and even assisted Nazis in their escape to Argentina? The Vatican and namely the Jesuits assisted the Nazis. It is evil at its roots. Nothing Christian about it. I have great sympathy for the people who were born into the Roman Catholic Church - I was also born into a family that was staunch Roman Catholics - by God's grace I never accepted it and refused to take it seriously even as a young child I rejected it and saw through it. By the Grace of God I was not deceived by Lucifer. To God be the Glory.

The Romans didn't slaughter the early Christians. In fact, it was the Spanish Inquisition. OK. It's all deranged. Have you thought about taking a small break?

Excuse me, Disir, but yes they did. Nero had Rome set on fire and then blamed it on the protestant Christians in order to destroy them. The Christians were fed to the lions by the Romans. What history books are you reading anyhow?

I have a Jewish friend who wrote about the Inquisition and would strongly disagree with you as it was indeed the Catholic Church that approved the tortures, the murders, burning people at the stake, burying them alive,( nailing the tongues of Christians to the roofs of the mouths you will find on internet - the stories too ) and again with the Holocaust there were millions of born again Christians who went to their deaths with the Jews rather than to save their own lives.

Have I ever thought of taking a small break? Would a soldier on the front lines take a small break? God forbid, Disir! God forbid!

Nero didn't set Rome on fire. Most of the structures were wooden. They were prone to fire. Since Nero's palace was burned as well it is unlikely that he started the fire. He wasn't even in Rome when it started. There were very few actual Christian Martyrs. Recent excavations in the Colosseum show what has been suspected-that it didn't happen. The accounts were written about a century afterward. Nor would there have ever been any way to differentiate between Catholics and Protestants at that time.

How about backing up that claim with a ? Here are a few that argues with this statement.
Did Nero really fiddle while Rome burned Ask HISTORY History Q A
also
Colosseum Christian Martyrs



You have lost your mind.[/QUOTE]

Why is it, when people post 'you have lost your mind,' they never back up their theories, with any evidence?

 

[Disir]

"They fought to retain the notion of a human will in Christ. In their view, Christ actively resisted temptations and did good until he atoned for sin both through his death and by the example of his good works. By so doing, he showed ordinary people the way of salvation and offered the potential for human nature to be raised to the level of the divine. To use the title of one of the most famous Christian texts ever written, the Imitation of Christ, is not just possible but demanded. When modern liberal theologians protest that the exalted divine image of Jesus places his ethical teachings beyond attainable reach, they are reviving one of the oldest debates in Christendom.

The best way to understand the issue is to have Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Then ask the Holy Spirit what the truth is.

At that time you will know why modern liberal theologians protest for naught. They seek God by their own effort, in their ivory towers of knowledge and learning, amassing knowledge without comprehension.

Ok, Max. I put the author's information up so that no one would feel like it was a trick question gotcha moment and as a heads up to the rest of the atheists that it wasn't the intention of this thread for a trick question gotcha moment. The author presents the information in as neutral a way as possible. Acknowledgement does not equal support or opposition. He covers the councils, the politics, and some of the violence. He is not my only source. I have a myriad of books that are written by Christians of all denominations, Rabbis and atheists. Many are for history and many are for conflict resolution.