"What Would Jesus Take?" 'Christian' tax theory

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Big Fitz, Apr 27, 2011.

  1. Big Fitz
    Offline

    Big Fitz User Quit *****

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    16,917
    Thanks Received:
    2,473
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +2,475
    After consideration, this is probably the best forum for this discussion, though it's highly political and economic in nature.



    The question asked on Apr 25th by El Rushbo was why liberals were co-opting Jesus to defend taxation and their political faith. The left has been drum beating lately that Jesus was a collectivist and that taxation equals charity. It reminds me of the bullshit "Jesus was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a governor" slogan popular during the 08 election. One revolting sentiment considering it against scripture's actual words. By this standard, Oral Roberts, Jim Bakker and Jim Jones were community organizers too.

    I've been looking through scripture to instances about taxation and fail to see anything of the kind there. Most often, tax collectors are lumped in with prostitutes and sinners.

    The Disciple Matthew was a tax collector who broke the mold of most in that era, for instead of totally hoarding the wealth (since the tax collector had to tax for his own income), he often paid the taxes of the poor with his own money. Jesus was often condemned for eating with them. You can find more information about Matthew from related biblical encyclopedias and the like.

    Now, Jesus is a champion of taxation being equal to giving? Why did not Jesus champion the tax collector? I don't find anywhere in scripture that he did. He did not curse them, but often included them with sinners for the sake of their job.

    When forced to pay a temple tax, he sent his disciples to catch a fish and remove the coin inside to pay the tax for all of them, lest they offend the tax collectors.

    So here we sit with Rush asking this question, but MSNBS's Larry O'Donnell pops off in response. A man known for deriding believers of the Bible, then attempts to use it to defend his actions. I dunno... maybe my hearing isn't 20/20 anymore but isn't that well... very hypocritical? Maybe it's just me.

    But the question of "What Would Jesus Cut" makes a major fatal assumption, that the money is legitimately owed. Other than paying for the temple tax from the mouth of a fish, Christ never paid taxes that we know of.

    But this little exasperating statement just astounds me.

    Excuse me? Really? And the parable of the rich man giving everything and following Jesus is the basis for government taxation policy???? How perverse! This is such a deliberate misinterpretation it's downright laughable. The problem is, too many scripturally ignorant they don't know that this is a deliberate misuse of this parable. It was about an individual not letting their wealth become a stumbling block to them following Christ. NOT as a plan for giving everything you own to government.



    Clues to this include, giving his sold wealth directly to the poor. Not a government. Not a tax collector. Individual giving. He also did not say he should go to the government and give his wealth to them to give to the poor. No, the judgment of who to give it to was the rich man's responsibility.


    What's really revolting is that this misuse equates government as divine, taking the place of Jesus as the spiritual and temporal provider of all things. A telling statement of liberal political faith. To them, government, if they agree with this, is God in the flesh. Nothing could be more wrong and deceitful.


    And here we equate money... dirty nasty money to being a block to a relationship with Christ. I wonder if Mr. O'Donnell is willing to give up everything he owns and continue to do his job for nothing? Should he keep his large salary as well and subsist on the same methods as the poorest entitlement junkies in this nation? Should he get a WIC and EBT card, housing credits and live in a crappy little government subsidized OR provided tenement? After all, Government is God by his equations and we should give EVERYTHING to Government who will then give to the poor for our act of charity.


    I'm just astounded by this horrible, blatantly STUPID statements and misuse of scripture to pontificate wildly about the divinity of collectivist government.


    And to this I say Horseshit. This is called basic mathematics which Jesus seemed to understand. It was a shaming to the rich who tried to claim their supremacy of being charitable when they gave a pittance as compared to a faithful poor person who had much less, STILL giving much less than him, but it was proportionally larger than what they gave. Again, another lie for the sake of collectivist government.


    And this is the truth that most collectivist zealots ignore and the death of their attempts to equate Jesus to their political faith.


    What a sick sad world we live in.

    MSNBC's O'Donnell Slams Limbaugh As Biblically Ignorant; Contorts Scripture to Paint Jesus As Socialist | NewsBusters.org
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2011
  2. konradv
    Offline

    konradv Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    22,551
    Thanks Received:
    2,554
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Location:
    Baltimore
    Ratings:
    +5,662
    How about Matthew 22:17-21(KJV)?

    17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

    18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

    19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

    20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

    21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.


    Seems Yeshua ben Yusef was alright with taxation!!!
     
  3. Truthmatters
    Offline

    Truthmatters BANNED

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    80,182
    Thanks Received:
    2,223
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2,233
    I think he whipped the money changers and not the poor
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  4. FuelRod
    Offline

    FuelRod Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Messages:
    3,387
    Thanks Received:
    920
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Ratings:
    +924
    Democrats don't pay their fair share to charity. Otherwise we wouldn't need the Governement's social programs.
     
  5. sinister59
    Offline

    sinister59 BANNED

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    884
    Thanks Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +34
    christian have nothing to say about paying taxs , "render unto Cezar " pay what your told .

    TAX the church's synagogues and mosk , no non for profit . not any more . church employees pay earnings tax priest, nones , rabbi , minister or mullah . or high priest or priestess .

    if you take in money then pay tax's .
     
  6. Big Fitz
    Offline

    Big Fitz User Quit *****

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    16,917
    Thanks Received:
    2,473
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +2,475

    And taxation is the same as charity how? Back then there WAS no social safety hammock. It was the family's, church's and philanthropist's job to care for the poor and needy. Where is "Herod's Home for the Disabled"? Can you point me to Solomon building women's shelters? How often are we reminded of King David's court issuing food stamps? How about that Roman healthcare and social security plan?

    So, where, is the equation of taxation = charity?

    Would you two like to hang yourself with your words again? Or was once enough?
     
  7. Big Fitz
    Offline

    Big Fitz User Quit *****

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    16,917
    Thanks Received:
    2,473
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +2,475
    Red letter day. I'm actually going to Posrep Truthmatters. She got that one right.

    and a cute non-snarky lolcat. Boy I'm too nice at times.

    [​IMG]

    Ow, I think I sprained my frontal lobe doing that.
     
  8. Sallow
    Offline

    Sallow The Big Bad Wolf. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    56,535
    Thanks Received:
    6,132
    Trophy Points:
    1,840
    Location:
    New York City
    Ratings:
    +7,394
    Ah the great schism rears it's ugly head again amongst the Christians.

    Whether the Messiah thought it was more in keeping with their god to be rich or poor.

    This has led to all sorts of mischief including wars.

    Gotta love it.
     
  9. Avatar4321
    Offline

    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    70,537
    Thanks Received:
    8,161
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +12,153
    Not surprisingly, irrelevant to the conversation.
     
  10. Avatar4321
    Offline

    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    70,537
    Thanks Received:
    8,161
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +12,153
    I don't think the Lord wanted us to be either.
     

Share This Page