CDZ What was the world like when guns did not exist?

[Pop23]

The majority cannot vote away the constitutional rights of others. Would you like your neighbors to vote on your first or fourth amendment rights?

Every constitutional right you have is regulated by the government voted in by my neighbors.

OMG ^^^^^^^ please be so kind to explain this

 

[evenflow1969]

One need not be mentally ill in order to commit suicide.

You assume that a person cannot make a rational choice to end his own life.

True fact but there are legal ways to go about it and my gut tells me these people don't choose such a messy option as a gun. It seems that 10% of suicides are linked to terminal illnesses. If someone rationally chooses to end their life, that is their right.

Suicide is not illegal
And if you truly believe that suicide is a choice one has the right to make why do you care if a person chooses to use a gun?

Consent. You can't consent to something if you are impaired in some way. Quaaludes, age, and mental illness are examples of factors that impair judgement. The issue with guns is that they are much more effective than other forms so should be addressed first.

Consent does not apply in suicide. Anything one chooses to do to himself is by definition consented to by him.
Consent applies when you want to act in any way upon another you know like forcing people to wear seat belts or forcing people not to eat Twinkies because you believe it costs you money if they do.

It costs the insurance company money! Not that I care they are not my favorite people! I am sure they pass the price to me and the price of things that likely have nothing to do with the cost of insurance but it gets them a margin!

 

[Pop23]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

The problem with making every gun registered is that if you do need them to rise against a tyrranical governemt which the past has shown this can happen. You give that tyranical government a list of where to go pick them up!

Tyranny is in the eye of the beholder. If there were no guns in civilian hands in 1861 it is likely the Civil War would not have happened. Blacks that lived under Jim Crow defeated that tyranny without guns.

Like hell they did it with out guns! They carried them and northerners carried them for them. More americans died in the civil war than any other war. My family produced generals on both sides. The rifle freed the slave and the frigates and iron clads freed the slaves! As far as perspective lets put you in chains and what is your perspective. I will die in my boots with gun in hand before I am made a slave!

While many of the casualties accounted for in statistics refer to death on the battlefield, an even greater number of soldiers died from noncombat-related illnesses and disease. Statistically, for every three soldiers who died during combat, there were five who died of disease.

The Biggest Causes of Death for Soldiers During the Civil War | Synonym

Not saying there were not high death tolls in battle, but the overall rate was much lower than would would initially believe.

I doubt rifles were as effective as bayonets in many Civil war battles.

Just sayin

 

[alang1216]

looks to me like accidental gun deaths are pretty low

so you're worrying about the wrong thing

How many gun deaths are worth worrying about?

For the public in general? Or for the gang bangers that cause most of them. And the suicidal? Only theirs matter, to them.

Gang bangers that kill other gang bangers do us all a favor. Not so much when they kill an innocent. Suicides have families that are impacted too.

Suicides have families that are impacted too. Agreed.

I posted three separate links to the incredible impact that suicides had on families earlier. More to the point is that, in none of these cases did the suicide involve a gun, and instead, the suicide involved using a car or a bridge, and those three cases (and there are more), 9 people died because the suicidal person DID NOT USE A GUN.

Case #1: Threw himself off of a bridge killing the 22 year old driver of the car he fell through the window of. Bet her family had wished he used a gun.

Case #2: Driver decided to take his life by driving down the Interstate the wrong way, killed another man. Bet the innocent drivers family had wished he had used a gun instead.

Case #3: Suicidal woman decided to take her life by driving down the Interstate the wrong way. She survived, the Seven that she hit died. TALK ABOUT IMPACTING A FAMILY. Bet this family wishes she would have used a gun! Shouldn't this as well have been classified a mass murder? Did congress have hearings on it? Marches on Washington?

I think you can add at some of the mass shootings to the list of suicides. They wanted to die 'heroically'.

 

[Pop23]

looks to me like accidental gun deaths are pretty low

so you're worrying about the wrong thing

How many gun deaths are worth worrying about?

For the public in general? Or for the gang bangers that cause most of them. And the suicidal? Only theirs matter, to them.

Gang bangers that kill other gang bangers do us all a favor. Not so much when they kill an innocent. Suicides have families that are impacted too.

Suicides have families that are impacted too. Agreed.

I posted three separate links to the incredible impact that suicides had on families earlier. More to the point is that, in none of these cases did the suicide involve a gun, and instead, the suicide involved using a car or a bridge, and those three cases (and there are more), 9 people died because the suicidal person DID NOT USE A GUN.

Case #1: Threw himself off of a bridge killing the 22 year old driver of the car he fell through the window of. Bet her family had wished he used a gun.

Case #2: Driver decided to take his life by driving down the Interstate the wrong way, killed another man. Bet the innocent drivers family had wished he had used a gun instead.

Case #3: Suicidal woman decided to take her life by driving down the Interstate the wrong way. She survived, the Seven that she hit died. TALK ABOUT IMPACTING A FAMILY. Bet this family wishes she would have used a gun! Shouldn't this as well have been classified a mass murder? Did congress have hearings on it? Marches on Washington?

I think you can add at some of the mass shootings to the list of suicides. They wanted to die 'heroically'.

Whoa Cowboy, that's a monumental deflection.

Why is the taking of 7 life's via car not a mass murder?

 

[alang1216]

Consent does not apply in suicide. Anything one chooses to do to himself is by definition consented to by him.
Consent applies when you want to act in any way upon another you know like forcing people to wear seat belts or forcing people not to eat Twinkies because you believe it costs you money if they do.

So if your toddler wants to sit in an open, 10th story window you would let him?
If your drunken friend asks you to find his car keys you would help him?
If your sister is dumped by her boyfriend and asks for a gun you would give her one?

 

[alang1216]

Whoa Cowboy, that's a monumental deflection.

Why is the taking of 7 life's via car not a mass murder?

No deflection, just pointing our that some gun suicides involve innocent bystanders.

 

[evenflow1969]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

The problem with making every gun registered is that if you do need them to rise against a tyrranical governemt which the past has shown this can happen. You give that tyranical government a list of where to go pick them up!

Tyranny is in the eye of the beholder. If there were no guns in civilian hands in 1861 it is likely the Civil War would not have happened. Blacks that lived under Jim Crow defeated that tyranny without guns.

Like hell they did it with out guns! They carried them and northerners carried them for them. More americans died in the civil war than any other war. My family produced generals on both sides. The rifle freed the slave and the frigates and iron clads freed the slaves! As far as perspective lets put you in chains and what is your perspective. I will die in my boots with gun in hand before I am made a slave!

While many of the casualties accounted for in statistics refer to death on the battlefield, an even greater number of soldiers died from noncombat-related illnesses and disease. Statistically, for every three soldiers who died during combat, there were five who died of disease.

The Biggest Causes of Death for Soldiers During the Civil War | Synonym

Not saying there were not high death tolls in battle, but the overall rate was much lower than would would initially believe.

I doubt rifles were as effective as bayonets in many Civil war battles.

Just sayin

Toward the end of the war which is when the technology was brought into the battle and repeating rifles for the calvary the old units did no9t stand a chance! Also add in that the gatlin gun came along at the same time if you were out fitted with this the likielyhood of victory multiplied 100 times.. Lets not forget the role of cannons on those frigates and iron clads. If you do not think technolgical advancement swayed the war you are not paying attention. The hours spent talking about the change in how war fare was done at Annapolis and West Point are unbelievable. Current military leadership sure thinks it is worth while studying! The biggest strategic gain that could have swayed the war was not how ever gun tech. If we had just been smart enough to not shit in the water we drank one side could have over came the tech advancements in arms. That is not what happened though! Still would have been a tech advancement that made the difference!

 

[alang1216]

Now you are looking even more loony. You do realize that wars were fought before the invention of the gun, right?

What are you? 12?

If you studied your history you know that in 1861 the gun was already invented and many were owned by the gov't. If there were no guns in private hands that would constitute a monopoly and huge advantage in favor of the gov't.

 

[Pop23]

Consent does not apply in suicide. Anything one chooses to do to himself is by definition consented to by him.
Consent applies when you want to act in any way upon another you know like forcing people to wear seat belts or forcing people not to eat Twinkies because you believe it costs you money if they do.

So if your toddler wants to sit in an open, 10th story window you would let him?
If your drunken friend asks you to find his car keys you would help him?
If your sister is dumped by her boyfriend and asks for a gun you would give her one?

Neither a toddler or a drunk can give consent, they have diminished capacity. What's your point?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Consent does not apply in suicide. Anything one chooses to do to himself is by definition consented to by him.
Consent applies when you want to act in any way upon another you know like forcing people to wear seat belts or forcing people not to eat Twinkies because you believe it costs you money if they do.

So if your toddler wants to sit in an open, 10th story window you would let him?
If your drunken friend asks you to find his car keys you would help him?
If your sister is dumped by her boyfriend and asks for a gun you would give her one?

None of this applies to toddlers since toddlers are not considered able to give consent for anything.

Your last two examples are not illustrations of the concept of consent since the mere refusal of a request does not require the consent of the person asking.

Now if you were to have sex with a passed out drunk girl or if you ruffied her you would have a problem because she was not able to give consent.

When it comes to matters of suicide or even nonlethal self harm ( cutting) the legal concept of consent is completely irrelevant because by choosing to do anything to yourself you are consenting by default

 

[Pop23]

Now you are looking even more loony. You do realize that wars were fought before the invention of the gun, right?

What are you? 12?

If you studied your history you know that in 1861 the gun was already invented and many were owned by the gov't. If there were no guns in private hands that would constitute a monopoly and huge advantage in favor of the gov't.

Another huge deflection. You said if there were no guns the civil war would not have happened. I called you on it because you obviously don't know shit. Wars were fought looooonnnnnggggggg before the invention of the gun and you have no evidence that they would not have continued.

Pop23, creating trolls on a daily basis.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Whoa Cowboy, that's a monumental deflection.

Why is the taking of 7 life's via car not a mass murder?

No deflection, just pointing our that some gun suicides involve innocent bystanders.

So do suicides where people jump off buildings

 

[alang1216]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

The problem with making every gun registered is that if you do need them to rise against a tyrranical governemt which the past has shown this can happen. You give that tyranical government a list of where to go pick them up!

Tyranny is in the eye of the beholder. If there were no guns in civilian hands in 1861 it is likely the Civil War would not have happened. Blacks that lived under Jim Crow defeated that tyranny without guns.

Like hell they did it with out guns! They carried them and northerners carried them for them. More americans died in the civil war than any other war. My family produced generals on both sides. The rifle freed the slave and the frigates and iron clads freed the slaves! As far as perspective lets put you in chains and what is your perspective. I will die in my boots with gun in hand before I am made a slave!

Jim Crow was post-Civil War so your post makes no sense.

 

[Pop23]

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

The problem with making every gun registered is that if you do need them to rise against a tyrranical governemt which the past has shown this can happen. You give that tyranical government a list of where to go pick them up!

Tyranny is in the eye of the beholder. If there were no guns in civilian hands in 1861 it is likely the Civil War would not have happened. Blacks that lived under Jim Crow defeated that tyranny without guns.

Like hell they did it with out guns! They carried them and northerners carried them for them. More americans died in the civil war than any other war. My family produced generals on both sides. The rifle freed the slave and the frigates and iron clads freed the slaves! As far as perspective lets put you in chains and what is your perspective. I will die in my boots with gun in hand before I am made a slave!

While many of the casualties accounted for in statistics refer to death on the battlefield, an even greater number of soldiers died from noncombat-related illnesses and disease. Statistically, for every three soldiers who died during combat, there were five who died of disease.

The Biggest Causes of Death for Soldiers During the Civil War | Synonym

Not saying there were not high death tolls in battle, but the overall rate was much lower than would would initially believe.

I doubt rifles were as effective as bayonets in many Civil war battles.

Just sayin

Toward the end of the war which is when the technology was brought into the battle and repeating rifles for the calvary the old units did no9t stand a chance! Also add in that the gatlin gun came along at the same time if you were out fitted with this the likielyhood of victory multiplied 100 times.. Lets not forget the role of cannons on those frigates and iron clads. If you do not think technolgical advancement swayed the war you are not paying attention. The hours spent talking about the change in how war fare was done at Annapolis and West Point are unbelievable. Current military leadership sure thinks it is worth while studying! The biggest strategic gain that could have swayed the war was not how ever gun tech. If we had just been smart enough to not shit in the water we drank one side could have over came the tech advancements in arms. That is not what happened though! Still would have been a tech advancement that made the difference!

Genghis Khan defeated Civilizations with far more advanced weapons then he. His defeat of China, by far the most advanced military in the world at that time, still shocks Historians. Not to mention the huge assembly of Knights a small band of his men defeated. The Americans, using a mostly an unorganized Militia defeated the Great British Army. The Afghans fought the Mighty Soviet Army to a standstill forcing their withdraw.

What is your point?

 

[alang1216]

Now you are looking even more loony. You do realize that wars were fought before the invention of the gun, right?

What are you? 12?

If you studied your history you know that in 1861 the gun was already invented and many were owned by the gov't. If there were no guns in private hands that would constitute a monopoly and huge advantage in favor of the gov't.

Another huge deflection. You said if there were no guns the civil war would not have happened. I called you on it because you obviously don't know shit. Wars were fought looooonnnnnggggggg before the invention of the gun and you have no evidence that they would not have continued.

Pop23, creating trolls on a daily basis.

Do you really think the South would have openly rebelled if only the North had guns? They would have never stood a chance so they would have used other methods besides open warfare.

 

[Pop23]

Whoa Cowboy, that's a monumental deflection.

Why is the taking of 7 life's via car not a mass murder?

No deflection, just pointing our that some gun suicides involve innocent bystanders.

So do suicides where people jump off buildings

What is she thinking?

 

[Pop23]

Now you are looking even more loony. You do realize that wars were fought before the invention of the gun, right?

What are you? 12?

If you studied your history you know that in 1861 the gun was already invented and many were owned by the gov't. If there were no guns in private hands that would constitute a monopoly and huge advantage in favor of the gov't.

Another huge deflection. You said if there were no guns the civil war would not have happened. I called you on it because you obviously don't know shit. Wars were fought looooonnnnnggggggg before the invention of the gun and you have no evidence that they would not have continued.

Pop23, creating trolls on a daily basis.

Do you really think the South would have openly rebelled if only the North had guns? They would have never stood a chance so they would have used other methods besides open warfare.

Why the constant deflection? And what would have happened if only the South had guns?

Good God, pick an argument and stick with it.

 

[alang1216]

Every constitutional right you have is regulated by the government voted in by my neighbors.

OMG ^^^^^^^ please be so kind to explain this

Seems self-explanatory to me. Can you name a right that isn't regulated by the government?

 

[Pop23]

Every constitutional right you have is regulated by the government voted in by my neighbors.

OMG ^^^^^^^ please be so kind to explain this

Seems self-explanatory to me. Can you name a right that isn't regulated by the government?

Starting with breathing?