CDZ What was the world like when guns did not exist?

[Skull Pilot]

looks to me like accidental gun deaths are pretty low

so you're worrying about the wrong thing

How many gun deaths are worth worrying about?

For the public in general? Or for the gang bangers that cause most of them. And the suicidal? Only theirs matter, to them.

Gang bangers that kill other gang bangers do us all a favor. Not so much when they kill an innocent. Suicides have families that are impacted too.

Thank you for admitting you don't care about the murder rate.

And the fact that families are impacted by suicides is none of your business.
You do not have the right to tell a person he can't commit suicide because he might hurt his mother's feelings

 

[EGR one]

I don't care if the right is god given or not but it is my right to own a firearm to protect myself

Your right comes from the government (the Constitution) which comes from the citizens of this country, it is not a right you're born with.

So I have no right to defend my own life?

You do have that legal right but it is not your legal right because you say it is. Your legal right comes from the government. Your right to life, liberty, and the pursuit may come from God but that only translate to legal rights through gov't.

The Constitution is not government. It is a document that government is obligated to uphold and protect. Our rights to keep and bear arms comes from that constitution, and not from government.

 

[alang1216]

Not everyone who takes their own life is mentally ill, neither is everyone who kills. And there are some "mentally ill" people (who are technically considered mentally ill) who are perfectly functional people. If you have sought treatment for depression, then you could be considered "mentally ill" as well. The problems come where you allow government bureaucrats to decide WHO is mentally ill and deserving or undeserving of rights.

I don't disagree but I think some combination of family, friend, coworker, health professional etc., has to be that authority that decides WHO is mentally ill and deserving or undeserving of gun rights.

 

[alang1216]

Thank you for admitting you don't care about the murder rate.

And the fact that families are impacted by suicides is none of your business.
You do not have the right to tell a person he can't commit suicide because he might hurt his mother's feelings

Thank you for admitting you don't care about mothers. Happy mother's day to you.

I think we have an obligation to help those who would choose suicide due to depression or similar ailment and this is personal. My father attempted when he found out he had cataracts and might go blind. His suicide attempt failed, he had surgery, and lived many happy years. If he had used a gun instead of pills he might have succeeded.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Thank you for admitting you don't care about the murder rate.

And the fact that families are impacted by suicides is none of your business.
You do not have the right to tell a person he can't commit suicide because he might hurt his mother's feelings

Thank you for admitting you don't care about mothers. Happy mother's day to you.

I think we have an obligation to help those who would choose suicide due to depression or similar ailment and this is personal. My father attempted when he found out he had cataracts and might go blind. His suicide attempt failed, he had surgery, and lived many happy years. If he had used a gun instead of pills he might have succeeded.

It's not my business to care about another person's mother.
Their family matters are their own not mine.

And depressed people are perfectly capable of making their own choices. You just have a problem with people making choices that you wouldn't make

 

[2aguy]

Not everyone who takes their own life is mentally ill, neither is everyone who kills. And there are some "mentally ill" people (who are technically considered mentally ill) who are perfectly functional people. If you have sought treatment for depression, then you could be considered "mentally ill" as well. The problems come where you allow government bureaucrats to decide WHO is mentally ill and deserving or undeserving of rights.

I don't disagree but I think some combination of family, friend, coworker, health professional etc., has to be that authority that decides WHO is mentally ill and deserving or undeserving of gun rights.

Sorry.....that is a chicken and egg argument...when you are found to be dangerously mentally ill by a court, then your Rights can be stripped..... you don't get to have people prove they can own guns by undergoing a test conducted by people who want to infringe on Rights....

 

[2aguy]

The fact that you are harping on accidental deaths and not even mentioning where 70% of all murders occur tells me you don't really care about the murder rate or actual gun crimes as much as you do your agenda to restrict gun ownership

I'm more than happy to find a way to lower the murder rate. I'm open to any ideas that can be backed up by evidence. What you got?

I'm more than happy to find a way to lower the murder rate. I'm open to any ideas that can be backed up by evidence. What you got?


Long prison sentences for violent gun criminals. This is how Japan keeps violent criminals from using guns in Japan.....but the funny thing? The democrats who target law abiding gun owners with every law they pass..... continue to let violent gun criminals out of jail with easy bail, short prison sentences and easy parole...where they then go on to commit gun murder..... in every democrats city where you have high gun crime rates, you find lax policies toward repeat gun offenders...violent repeat gun offenders....

Long prison sentences are the only real reform we need....this leaves normal gun owners alone, does not require any new gun laws and targets the ones actually committing the crimes...

Japan’s gun control laws so strict the Yakuza turn to toy pistols



Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.

“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.

Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.

Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.

---

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

 

[dannyboys]

Human beings are the most violent animal ever to walk the earth.
Anyone who denies this is too stupid to bother with.

Way to keep an open mind...

At least he doesn't have his head shoved up his ass like you do pal.
An "open mind" sees reality for what it is.
If every gun on the planet disappeared today by tomorrow the strongest humans would be enslaving the weak. At least the 'weak' can level the playing field when they have a gun to defend themselves.

 

[Pop23]

looks to me like accidental gun deaths are pretty low

so you're worrying about the wrong thing

How many gun deaths are worth worrying about?

For the public in general? Or for the gang bangers that cause most of them. And the suicidal? Only theirs matter, to them.

Gang bangers that kill other gang bangers do us all a favor. Not so much when they kill an innocent. Suicides have families that are impacted too.

Suicides have families that are impacted too. Agreed.

I posted three separate links to the incredible impact that suicides had on families earlier. More to the point is that, in none of these cases did the suicide involve a gun, and instead, the suicide involved using a car or a bridge, and those three cases (and there are more), 9 people died because the suicidal person DID NOT USE A GUN.

Case #1: Threw himself off of a bridge killing the 22 year old driver of the car he fell through the window of. Bet her family had wished he used a gun.

Case #2: Driver decided to take his life by driving down the Interstate the wrong way, killed another man. Bet the innocent drivers family had wished he had used a gun instead.

Case #3: Suicidal woman decided to take her life by driving down the Interstate the wrong way. She survived, the Seven that she hit died. TALK ABOUT IMPACTING A FAMILY. Bet this family wishes she would have used a gun! Shouldn't this as well have been classified a mass murder? Did congress have hearings on it? Marches on Washington?

 

[evenflow1969]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

The problem with making every gun registered is that if you do need them to rise against a tyrranical governemt which the past has shown this can happen. You give that tyranical government a list of where to go pick them up!

 

[alang1216]

Why be so fixated on numbers? How does a thousand deaths become more horrible than a hundred deaths? Why is 10 dead worse than 5 dead? Could it be that since the news media focus is on numbers, that we have to focus on numbers?

Prevention should be prioritized to address the largest number of the most serious issues. Like triage, you don't provide medical care to a broken finger when a heart attack victim is there too.

 

[alang1216]

One need not be mentally ill in order to commit suicide.

You assume that a person cannot make a rational choice to end his own life.

True fact but there are legal ways to go about it and my gut tells me these people don't choose such a messy option as a gun. It seems that 10% of suicides are linked to terminal illnesses. If someone rationally chooses to end their life, that is their right.

Suicide is not illegal
And if you truly believe that suicide is a choice one has the right to make why do you care if a person chooses to use a gun?

Consent. You can't consent to something if you are impaired in some way. Quaaludes, age, and mental illness are examples of factors that impair judgement. The issue with guns is that they are much more effective than other forms so should be addressed first.

 

[alang1216]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

The problem with making every gun registered is that if you do need them to rise against a tyrranical governemt which the past has shown this can happen. You give that tyranical government a list of where to go pick them up!

Tyranny is in the eye of the beholder. If there were no guns in civilian hands in 1861 it is likely the Civil War would not have happened. Blacks that lived under Jim Crow defeated that tyranny without guns.

 

[Pop23]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

The problem with making every gun registered is that if you do need them to rise against a tyrranical governemt which the past has shown this can happen. You give that tyranical government a list of where to go pick them up!

I get a kick out of a communist trying to make out he's not one. Starts an argument about guns should be licensed and registered like cars, then when it's pointed out that it would mean guns would require less license and registration than they currently have.............

Because they are taken onto public property? Huh? Does he realize the idiocy? Cars are used on a public roadway for a specific purpose, thus requiring the license and registration. Unless he has a gun with a V8 and Goodyear radials, he looks a fool.

 

[Skull Pilot]

One need not be mentally ill in order to commit suicide.

You assume that a person cannot make a rational choice to end his own life.

True fact but there are legal ways to go about it and my gut tells me these people don't choose such a messy option as a gun. It seems that 10% of suicides are linked to terminal illnesses. If someone rationally chooses to end their life, that is their right.

Suicide is not illegal
And if you truly believe that suicide is a choice one has the right to make why do you care if a person chooses to use a gun?

Consent. You can't consent to something if you are impaired in some way. Quaaludes, age, and mental illness are examples of factors that impair judgement. The issue with guns is that they are much more effective than other forms so should be addressed first.

Consent does not apply in suicide. Anything one chooses to do to himself is by definition consented to by him.
Consent applies when you want to act in any way upon another you know like forcing people to wear seat belts or forcing people not to eat Twinkies because you believe it costs you money if they do.

 

[Pop23]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

The problem with making every gun registered is that if you do need them to rise against a tyrranical governemt which the past has shown this can happen. You give that tyranical government a list of where to go pick them up!

Tyranny is in the eye of the beholder. If there were no guns in civilian hands in 1861 it is likely the Civil War would not have happened. Blacks that lived under Jim Crow defeated that tyranny without guns.

Now you are looking even more loony. You do realize that wars were fought before the invention of the gun, right?

What are you? 12?

 

[alang1216]

The majority cannot vote away the constitutional rights of others. Would you like your neighbors to vote on your first or fourth amendment rights?

Every constitutional right you have is regulated by the government voted in by my neighbors.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

The problem with making every gun registered is that if you do need them to rise against a tyrranical governemt which the past has shown this can happen. You give that tyranical government a list of where to go pick them up!

Tyranny is in the eye of the beholder. If there were no guns in civilian hands in 1861 it is likely the Civil War would not have happened. Blacks that lived under Jim Crow defeated that tyranny without guns.

Now you are looking even more loony. You do realize that wars were fought before the invention of the gun, right?

What are you? 12?

Even in the Revolutionary War guns were only used in a first salvo and hand to hand fighting with swords and bayonets was resorted to as often

 

[Pop23]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

The problem with making every gun registered is that if you do need them to rise against a tyrranical governemt which the past has shown this can happen. You give that tyranical government a list of where to go pick them up!

Tyranny is in the eye of the beholder. If there were no guns in civilian hands in 1861 it is likely the Civil War would not have happened. Blacks that lived under Jim Crow defeated that tyranny without guns.

Now you are looking even more loony. You do realize that wars were fought before the invention of the gun, right?

What are you? 12?

Even in the Revolutionary War guns were only used in a first salvo and hand to hand fighting with swords and bayonets was resorted to as often

Bingo

 

[evenflow1969]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

The problem with making every gun registered is that if you do need them to rise against a tyrranical governemt which the past has shown this can happen. You give that tyranical government a list of where to go pick them up!

Tyranny is in the eye of the beholder. If there were no guns in civilian hands in 1861 it is likely the Civil War would not have happened. Blacks that lived under Jim Crow defeated that tyranny without guns.

Like hell they did it with out guns! They carried them and northerners carried them for them. More americans died in the civil war than any other war. My family produced generals on both sides. The rifle freed the slave and the frigates and iron clads freed the slaves! As far as perspective lets put you in chains and what is your perspective. I will die in my boots with gun in hand before I am made a slave!