What is the significance of gender on the Christian path?

[Sky Dancer]

Could the Virgin Mary have just as easily given birth to a female Savior?"

http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j16/pennington.asp

 

[Mini 14]

Remind me if I ever meet Buddha to beat the ever-loving shit out of him for forcing all of us to suffer your obsessions.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Remind me if I ever meet Buddha to beat the ever-loving shit out of him for forcing all of us to suffer your obsessions.

No one is forcing you to do anything. If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore.

There is a book, IF YOU MEET THE BUDDHA ON THE ROAD, KILL HIM, it would take me a long time to explain the teaching in that.

Truth is, I think you have a personal problem with me. I think it's me you'd like to beat the crap out of.

I'm a woman. Questions about gender have always been a part of my spiritual quest. The RCC doesn't ordain women as priests. I'm asking how gender is dealt with in other Christian churches.

 

[Mini 14]

Remind me if I ever meet Buddha to beat the ever-loving shit out of him for forcing all of us to suffer your obsessions.

No one is forcing you to do anything. If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore.

There is a book, IF YOU MEET THE BUDDHA ON THE ROAD, KILL HIM, it would take me a long time to explain the teaching in that.

Truth is, I think you have a personal problem with me. I think it's me you'd like to beat the crap out of.

I'm a woman. Questions about gender have always been a part of my spiritual quest. The RCC doesn't ordain women as priests. I'm asking how gender is dealt with in other Christian churches.

I think I've made it pretty clear that I have much compassion for you, that I pity you, but have confidence you'll find your path.

But you're transparent as hell, and your obsession isn't healthy for your spiritual growth.

This thread, assuming it gets enough play, will wind up like all your threads......bashing Christianity.

You are more concerned with Christianity than you are buddhism, which is very, VERY telling.

I'm not getting into it again.

Have at it, Buddha will be proud, I'm sure.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Remind me if I ever meet Buddha to beat the ever-loving shit out of him for forcing all of us to suffer your obsessions.

No one is forcing you to do anything. If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore.

There is a book, IF YOU MEET THE BUDDHA ON THE ROAD, KILL HIM, it would take me a long time to explain the teaching in that.

Truth is, I think you have a personal problem with me. I think it's me you'd like to beat the crap out of.

I'm a woman. Questions about gender have always been a part of my spiritual quest. The RCC doesn't ordain women as priests. I'm asking how gender is dealt with in other Christian churches.

I think I've made it pretty clear that I have much compassion for you, that I pity you, but have confidence you'll find your path.

But you're transparent as hell, and your obsession isn't healthy for your spiritual growth.

This thread, assuming it gets enough play, will wind up like all your threads......bashing Christianity.

You are more concerned with Christianity than you are buddhism, which is very, VERY telling.

I'm not getting into it again.

Have at it, Buddha will be proud, I'm sure.

I think you've made it very clear that you don't like me or anything I write. I'm more concerned with Buddhism than Christianity, but few people here are interested in that.

This is a sincere question I have always had, and it's one I brought in with me to Buddhism and had satisfied.

I'm interested particularly in how Christian women deal with the gender issue. In Catholicism they run the Churches but cannot be ordained. The Pope has said the ordination of women is as bad a sin as pedophilia.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I could have asked "What is the significance of gender in the Buddhist path?" but then people would say I'm pushing Buddhism.

I'm reminded of a group that I co-faciliated 20 years ago for women who were raised Catholic. The goal of the group was to support women in going forward in their spiritual paths by leaving the RCC or reconciling and returning to the RCC. It was a 50/50 split.

One of the women I always think about is one who had a vocation to be priest and was unable to ordain. Very sad.

 

[Newby]

Could the Virgin Mary have just as easily given birth to a female Savior?"

Father Basil Pennington: Could Christ Have Been a Woman?

No, she couldn't have, because at the time that Jesus was born, women were not equal citizens, and no one would have listened to a female 'Jesus', so he had to be a male.

As far as the female role in the Christian church today, it varies almost as much as the number of Christian denominations there are. Lutherans ordain female pastors and have strong female roles within the church, my sister is the church council president at her church. And right now there's a huge issue within the Lutheran church as to whether or not to allow openly gay pastors practice in the pulpit.

In this article they are actually ordaining gay female pastors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/us/26lutheran.html

My church isn't that far along yet as far as the organization of the politics of the church, there are typically only male pastors, and males serve as the elders and deacons in the church. My church, however, has no over arching authority like the catholic and lutheran churches do, they're pretty much stand alone.

 

[The Infidel]

Could the Virgin Mary have just as easily given birth to a female Savior?"

No.... too many sammiches to be made and children to be "birthered"

 

[syrenn]

Could it have been a female, sure, but no one would have called it a savior. She could have said and done the exact same things and the out come would have been totally different.

It is religion written by men, for men, for the comfort of men. It is a religion written by men for control and domination over women.

 

[Newby]

Could it have been a female, sure, but no one would have called it a savior. She could have said and done the exact same things and the out come would have been totally different.

It is religion written by men, for men, for the comfort of men. It is a religion written by men for control and domination over women.

No, it's not, not if you really understand what it's saying. We talk about that all the time in our church, there is submission for both husbands and wives in the Bible, it's described as a give and take.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Point is, in the Catholic Church, only men can be seen as 'christ-like'. It's a real putdown to women Catholics. At least, the ones I've known who've longed to be priests.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Isn't that just like a woman... wants to run everything.

 

[Anachronism]

No, "Jesus" could not have been a woman. When one looks back at the Old Testament prophesies, all of the indications are of a Male "Savior".

As to how the rest of Christianity beyond the RCC sees women; it varies greatly. For example....

There are three significant branches of the Lutheran Church in the United States.

The ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America) ordains female ministers.

The LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) allows women to read lessons and be involved in the service but does not allow them to serve the sacrament or to become ministers.

The LCWS (Lutheran Church Wisconsin Synod) does not allow women to be involved in the officiation of the service in any manner whatsoever. They cannot even read lessons or serve in church offices.

Three branches of the same supposed path (Lutheranism) all of which treat women VERY differently.

Oh, and as for the RCC's position on the Virgin Mary.... Until the attempted conversion of the Celts, there is little significance give to Mary at all in Catholic teachings. Definitely nothing like the near deification that she currently enjoys. It was added as a means to assist in the conversion of the Celtic tribes in Britain, whose religion included the Goddess Brigit, whose legends have some similarities with Mary's story.

 

[syrenn]

Could it have been a female, sure, but no one would have called it a savior. She could have said and done the exact same things and the out come would have been totally different.

It is religion written by men, for men, for the comfort of men. It is a religion written by men for control and domination over women.

No, it's not, not if you really understand what it's saying. We talk about that all the time in our church, there is submission for both husbands and wives in the Bible, it's described as a give and take.

Yes, it is, if you really understand what it is saying.

I am sure your church is putting a spin on what it says, what it really says, to make it more expectable and workable in todays world.

 

[Newby]

Could it have been a female, sure, but no one would have called it a savior. She could have said and done the exact same things and the out come would have been totally different.

It is religion written by men, for men, for the comfort of men. It is a religion written by men for control and domination over women.

No, it's not, not if you really understand what it's saying. We talk about that all the time in our church, there is submission for both husbands and wives in the Bible, it's described as a give and take.

Yes, it is, if you really understand what it is saying.

I am sure your church is putting a spin on what it says, what it really says, to make it more expectable and workable in todays world.

No, there's no spin, I'm far from a meek, mild, or submitting female, and I wouldn't accept anything that I would consider 'spin'.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

Could the Virgin Mary have just as easily given birth to a female Savior?"

Father Basil Pennington: Could Christ Have Been a Woman?

Most if the questions you ask can be answered by googling an on line bible and reading about it. I would recommend the NLV version as it is straight forward and easier to read. When you read it, you will find that you will find that Woman play an important roll in the lives of men. You will also see that despite the common assumption, they are not relegated to sitting there, shutting up, and giving up the booty. It looks like you are proselytizing to non Buddhist, or trying to prove the superiority of your beliefs over that of another. This makes it look as if you have an ax to grind or that you are insecure in what you believe.This is common among a goo deal of American Buddhist. I am not trying to stomp your thought, and that is only my opinion (and we know what they say about those). This is why I feel you get the reaction that you do.

 

[xsited1]

Could the Virgin Mary have just as easily given birth to a female Savior?"
...

No, because the Bible said that the Savior would be male.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

And the fellow you quoted is biased.

 

[emilynghiem]

Could the Virgin Mary have just as easily given birth to a female Savior?"

Father Basil Pennington: Could Christ Have Been a Woman?

Dear Sky:
I believe the Holy Spirit is the female side of God, the comfort and mercy, the healing grace associated with Mother Mary or with Quan Am as Merciful Compassion.

Otherwise the trinity is out of balance.
The church body, the Sangha in Buddhism, is the people as the "bride" of Christ or the laws that govern us all by conscience. With churched tribes these are the divine laws, with secular gentiles, including Greek ethics and Buddhists even constitutional civil laws, these are the natural laws. The same spirit of the laws of truth and justice fulfill both paths.

We the people, the collective body, become the female role in the relationship.
We submit to one another with respect to equality under law.
Just like collective nouns of ships or countries are referred to as she or her.
The law or government is represented as male.

Another reason for Jesus as a male sacrifice is to balance the karma.
Matriarchal societies came and were sacrificed first in genocide, before the patriarchal systems took over. Women still suffer oppression under patriarchal laws giving more rights and power, even valuing men more than women, an economic imbalance that has been traced to both spiritual roots (of church laws making women and children the property of men's estates to control lineage and requiring fidelity of women in order for men to know their heirs were their own sons) and also to social differences in valuing the meat that men gathered as hunters more than the fruits and crops that women gathered in the fields.

So Jesus as a male sacrifice is symbolic in atoning for the imbalance, and restoring equal respect and standing in God's eyes between men and women, male and female, bond and free. We even have male and female spiritual sides to our own conscience, being made in God's image, so we have to find an internal balance between respecting ourselves and serving others, if we are going to manifest the same peace and harmony in relations with others in society. Collectively, the agreement to follow divine laws unites the people as one church body (female) and the agreement to follow natural laws unites the people as one government (male). So the marriage of the bride and groom, people and government, human laws and God's laws, makes us one.

 

[Avatar4321]

Sums up my position nicely:

The Family: A Proclamation to the World