What is the purpose of religion...?

[deaddude]

The sea slug has as much free will as you or I, but instead of being guided by intelligence, the sea slug is guided by instinct, and to some extent so are we. We still get hit with adrenaline in situations that our intelligence would tell us are harmless. It is this adrenaline rush that causes pleasure from roller coasters and terror films. Can the image on the screen hurt you? no, but your body reacts as if it could.

Just food for thought but how long did the cambrian period last

 

[ajwps]

The sea slug has as much free will as you or I, but instead of being guided by intelligence, the sea slug is guided by instinct, and to some extent so are we. We still get hit with adrenaline in situations that our intelligence would tell us are harmless. It is this adrenaline rush that causes pleasure from roller coasters and terror films. Can the image on the screen hurt you? no, but your body reacts as if it could.

Is instinct the same as free will? Yes we have certain inborn instincts such as procreation or self preservation but that does negate the fact that homosapien man is not in anyway similar to the sea slug or the duck that flys south for the winter. There is no direct correlation between an adrenalin rush from the adrenal gland medulla and a movie screen image hurting you.

Just food for thought but how long did the cambrian period last

The Cambrian era was about 10 million earth years. Evidence of full fossil speicies were found in that rock strata forward to this time. But not one new form of life has developed since that time.

Strange but true.....

 

[rtwngAvngr]

We know aj. There's no evolution. There are no races. The world is flat.

 

[ajwps]

We know aj. There's no evolution. There are no races. The world is flat.

Right RWA, you have not evolved past the one celled organism and your earth is balanced on the back of a turtle.

What are you talking about?

 

[popefumanchu]

Here is a quote from a fictitious scholar in one of the appendices of Dune:
"Religion must remain an outlet of people who say to themselves, 'I am not the kind of person I want to be.' It must never sink into an assemblage of the self-satisfied."

Read it yesterday and thought of this thread. An interesting statement.

 

[deaddude]

I am so far behind in this thread...
An example of an absolute truth? How about Love Your Neighbor? How about Do To Others How You Would Have Them Do To You? How about Thou Shalt Not Rape Children? Is that absolute enough for you?

"Love thy neighbor", well I have been on this board for about a year now and it seems the overall sentiment is "love thy neighbor unless he is a Muslim."


We A-Bombed Hiroshima in the first and only display of nuclear arms against another country, now we go nuts if we think anybody is going to unto the US what we did unto Japan.


"Don’t rape children", tell it to the Catholic Priests.


None of those were absolute truths, they were moral guidelines, if it was an absolute truth that "thou salt not rape children" then thou would be totally incapable of raping children, as the clergy shows us that thou art capable of raping children, therefore it is not an Absolute Truth.



None of those were absolute truths, they were moral guidelines, if it was an absolute truth that "thou salt not rape children" then thou would be totally incapable of raping children, as the clergy shows us, thou art capable of raping children, therefore it is not an Absolute Truth.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

None of those were absolute truths, they were moral guidelines, if it was an absolute truth that "thou salt not rape children" then thou would be totally incapable of raping children, as the clergy shows us, thou art capable of raping children, therefore it is not an Absolute Truth.

This argument is very strained. If it was true that raping children was impossible, then raping children would be impossible. You hinged this entire crap argument on the slightly wrong differentiation between "truth" and "moral guideline". While it is true that a truth and a guideline are not exactly the same, what you have said is illogical.

 

[5stringJeff]

"Love thy neighbor", well I have been on this board for about a year now and it seems the overall sentiment is "love thy neighbor unless he is a Muslim."

We A-Bombed Hiroshima in the first and only display of nuclear arms against another country, now we go nuts if we think anybody is going to unto the US what we did unto Japan.

"Don’t rape children", tell it to the Catholic Priests.

None of those were absolute truths, they were moral guidelines, if it was an absolute truth that "thou salt not rape children" then thou would be totally incapable of raping children, as the clergy shows us that thou art capable of raping children, therefore it is not an Absolute Truth.

None of those were absolute truths, they were moral guidelines, if it was an absolute truth that "thou salt not rape children" then thou would be totally incapable of raping children, as the clergy shows us, thou art capable of raping children, therefore it is not an Absolute Truth.

You are confusing an absolute scientific fact with an absolute moral truth, which is what I was arguing for the existence of.
I never said that it was impossible to rape children, or that it was impossible to not do unto others has you would have them do unto you. What I argued is that those are absolute moral truths. In other words, there is no possible situation in which raping a child would be the morally correct thing to do. You should never do it - and yes, that includes Catholic priests.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Here is a quote from a fictitious scholar in one of the appendices of Dune:
"Religion must remain an outlet of people who say to themselves, 'I am not the kind of person I want to be.' It must never sink into an assemblage of the self-satisfied."

Read it yesterday and thought of this thread. An interesting statement.

Unfortunately, religion HAS sunk to that level throughout the world today. It is no longer a tool of self-knowledge and discovery. It has become a blunt political instrument with which to beat other into submission.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Unfortunately, religion HAS sunk to that level throughout the world today. It is no longer a tool of self-knowledge and discovery. It has become a blunt political instrument with which to beat other into submission.

Actually the "all religions are wrong" crap is a blunt political instrument of the left to rid societies of values systems which compete with their state centric view.

 

[Zhukov]

We A-Bombed Hiroshima in the first and only display of nuclear arms against another country, now we go nuts if we think anybody is going to unto the US what we did unto Japan.

That's strange because I don't remember anyone supposing that someone who we treacherously attacked is going to drop two nuclear bombs on us to get us to stop exterminating Chinese people with biological agents and commiting atrocities by experimenting on Koreans with chemical weapons, or flaying little children and then sewing together just to see what happened. If we ever do those things, someone should drop a nuclear bomb on us.

This might be impossible for you to understand but the Japanese people are actually better off because we dropped those bombs on them. They had become monsters and we taught them the error of their ways. And after we beat them into submission we picked them back up and helped them to stand.

 

[deaddude]

Very well then forget Japan how about Guantonamo, how would you like to be in legal nowhere. Are those people better off because we are teaching them the error of their ways? Declaration of enemy combatant status seems very reminiscient of KGB "disappearing". Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I personaly do find it wrong to rape children, and cannot imagine a case where it would be forgiveable. Maybe I just lack imagination, maybe your right, and it is in all cases wrong to rape children, therfore I consider it a moral truth in much the same way that tested (but unproven) theory is considered scientific fact.


Lastly I am getting many responses on my second and third points, what of the first?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Right RWA, you have not evolved past the one celled organism and your earth is balanced on the back of a turtle.

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about you and your assertion on other threads that races do not exist. I say if there are no races, let's get those checkboxes off all institutional forms. Is that ok with you?

 

[Modu$OperanDi]

Actually the "all religions are wrong" crap is a blunt political instrument of the left to rid societies of values systems which compete with their state centric view.

The values that Christianity along with other religions can teach can be very positive on the individual. However fundamentalist freaks like Bush and probably you are wrong and able to do very scary things using the power of your creed.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The values that Christianity along with other religions can teach can be very positive on the individual. However fundamentalist freaks like Bush and probably you are wrong and able to do very scary things using the power of your creed.

Like what?

 

[5stringJeff]

Very well then forget Japan how about Guantonamo, how would you like to be in legal nowhere. Are those people better off because we are teaching them the error of their ways? Declaration of enemy combatant status seems very reminiscient of KGB "disappearing". Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I personaly do find it wrong to rape children, and cannot imagine a case where it would be forgiveable. Maybe I just lack imagination, maybe your right, and it is in all cases wrong to rape children, therfore I consider it a moral truth in much the same way that tested (but unproven) theory is considered scientific fact.


Lastly I am getting many responses on my second and third points, what of the first?

My whole point in this thread is that there are such things as moral absolutes, even though we usually choose to ignore these absolutes. So if there are moral absolutes, then moral relativism is invalid.

 

[deaddude]

You missed the part about theory, I am not acknowledging it as an absolute. Hell the Aztecs sacrificed children to their gods, do I think that was wrong? Hell yes. Did they think it was wrong, no it was part of their religion.

You mentioned the raping of children, I agreed that I thought it was wrong, not that it was an absolute. I acknowledged the fact that you could be right, I would have you do the same unto me.

 

[5stringJeff]

You missed the part about theory, I am not acknowledging it as an absolute. Hell the Aztecs sacrificed children to their gods, do I think that was wrong? Hell yes. Did they think it was wrong, no it was part of their religion.

You mentioned the raping of children, I agreed that I thought it was wrong, not that it was an absolute. I acknowledged the fact that you could be right, I would have you do the same unto me.

Just because someone thinks it's right does not make it so. If someone believed that raping children was OK, would it then make it OK to do so? I certainly don't think so.
Or, for another example, if I think it's OK for me to rob your house and take your TV, would it then be morally correct for me to do so?

 

[deaddude]

what are your motives for taking the television?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

what are your motives for taking the television?

Why don't you tell us which motives would justify stealing a television? That'll be more fun.