What is school for?

[Dis]

That is an interesting question. These are my thoughts on the topic:

Teachers are able to without emotion pass on information, data to their students.

On the face of it, parents who do all the above things you mentioned, should be able to easily pass on the ability to the same to their children. But they don't. I believe psychology has a lot to do with it. Some parents still think that they shouldn't share household financial information with their children. They may think sharing financial information may lower the their own status in the children's eyes. Perhaps, they may be embarrassed by the amount of debt that they have incurred on their credit card. Another possibility may be that they were never formally taught by their own parents about personal finance so they never considered it their own obligation to pass on to their children.

In my experience, teachers that are able to do everything without emotion are simply there for a paycheck, and in fact, are not good teachers at all.

But it sounds like you want to dump yet another job on to them, that parents themselves should be doing. Perhaps if the parents are embarrassed at the amount of debt they've racked up, they should admit that fact, and teach the child not to do it, and show the child exactly where the problems come in (even using your delayed gratification example).

Getting mad about what a class DOES teach, when it infringes on your personal beliefs isn't any better than expecting a class to teach only what you feel they should teach because for whatever reason, you don't want to. (you being collective; not you personally)

 

[xsited1]

Seriously folks, the US spends more money per PUBLIC SCHOOL student than any other industrialized country in the world and gets the least bang for the buck. Obama doesn't even send his kids to Public Schools. Somebody must not have gotten the memo.

 

[Modbert]

Nice list. This is what school is supposed to be for, but instead they read to kindergartners, Heather Has Two Mommies and teach teens how to put on a condom.

It would also be a nice thing for schools to teach accounting and personal finance because most parents aren't equipped to teach this to their children.

Fucktard, my school and other schools do exactly like that.

Now go back to that little bubble you call delusion. It's up to the students to take such courses, you know; that little thing called responsibility and reality?

Though at this point, I'm sure you just want to blame the schools for trying to teach a little thing called acceptance of others and telling teens that there is more then only one solution to sex before marriage (which by the way works as well as putting gasoline on a open flame).

And to further my point: I've been in Finance for the past 3 years (with a great emphasis on Accounting too) and a single year of Accounting too.

I would of taken Business Management also this year if I had the space.

EDIT: I can't believe I'm saying this but I actually agree with Dis for once somewhat. Teaching personal finance anyway is a responsibility of the parent or should be. You talk about how these schools are so Liberal yet you want to have Mommy Government teach your children how to do personal finances. Really? After the last eight years of financial ruin, never mind the fucktardrity that we've had in our country's history you want the Government of all people in charge of teaching your kids how to do their finances?

 

[editec]

Will you please tell that to the other teachers?

Hey! why do you think I am not teaching?

Nice people, teachers, but they're not exactly going to stand up like professionals to impose their will on schools boards.

They're told to leave their balls at home and they do like cowering workers everywhere do.

You aren't in your wildest imagination thinking that teachers control the crap that's going on in schools, do you?

Forget everything you've been lied to tabout teachers and their powerful unions, Allie.

That's nothing but a load right wing anti-union of propaganda designed to make you think that schools are failures because of teachers unions.

No professional on earth is easier to shitcan than a teacher.

That so called teachers' tenure you hear so much about basically means when they fire a teacher, they have to let them petition (to the same people who just laid them off) not to be fired.

Does that sound like a lifetime of job security to you?

Think I'm kidding?

Read the teachers contracts of most major cities.

Teachers are servants, and not well respected servants, at that.

Schools are failing because FAMILIES have been failing, Allie.

Teachers cannot civilize our kids.

If they come in as emotion/psychological/ immature wrecks, we can't fix them, no matter how many councilors these nitwits hire, nor how many antidrug, don't make babies, it's cool to be gay, rainbow non violence seminars they drag them into.

The kids know its a bunch of shit.
The teachers know it's a bunch of shit, but apparently the parents who elect the school boards (school boards usally filled with non-educators, I might add) apparently think it's freakin' shinolea.

 

[PoliticalChic]

In my experience, teachers that are able to do everything without emotion are simply there for a paycheck, and in fact, are not good teachers at all.

Are you saying that teachers that don't yell and scream while they're teaching Physics, Geography, and Art are not good teachers? That's not my experience.

But it sounds like you want to dump yet another job on to them, that parents themselves should be doing. Perhaps if the parents are embarrassed at the amount of debt they've racked up, they should admit that fact, and teach the child not to do it, and show the child exactly where the problems come in (even using your delayed gratification example).

Perhaps not spelled out in the first "list," but the overall concept is the following: Schools were meant to be the guardian of middle-class values. Those values include saving and planning for the future. Why shouldn't both parents and schools teach accounting and personal finance, since the schools were designed as an extension of the parents. In fact, in earlier times, we used the latin phrase, in loco parentis (in place of a parent). Once again, both venues should stress those things which add stability to a child's future and that includes dealing with finances.

Getting mad about what a class DOES teach, when it infringes on your personal beliefs isn't any better than expecting a class to teach only what you feel they should teach because for whatever reason, you don't want to. (you being collective; not you personally)

In it's latest incarnations, people who think the way you do, have decided that the schools should teach some populist view of morality and that curriculum should involve social planning, even if it runs counter to the parents' views. Modern activists courts have decided that parents have basically no rights to object to government-dictated morals and mores. By what stretch of the imagination, have you decided that the schools can teach government's ideas of BELIEFS? Who's BELIEFS? How do beliefs replace reading, writing, and arithmetic? Schools should teach skills and facts. And if you want beliefs in the curriculum, they should teach Judeo-Christian values, not a previous Surgeon General's idea of teaching masturbation to the young.

 

[Annie]

Will you please tell that to the other teachers?

Hey! why do you think I am not teaching?

Nice people, teachers, but they're not exactly going to stand up like professionals to impose their will on schools boards.

They're told to leave their balls at home and they do like cowering workers everywhere do.

You aren't in your wildest imagination thinking that teachers control the crap that's going on in schools, do you?

Forget everything you've been lied to tabout teachers and their powerful unions, Allie.

That's nothing but a load right wing anti-union of propaganda designed to make you think that schools are failures because of teachers unions.

No professional on earth is easier to shitcan than a teacher.

That so called teachers' tenure you hear so much about basically means when they fire a teacher, they have to let them petition (to the same people who just laid them off) not to be fired.

Does that sound like a lifetime of job security to you?

Think I'm kidding?

Read the teachers contracts of most major cities.

Teachers are servants, and not well respected servants, at that.

Schools are failing because FAMILIES have been failing, Allie.

Teachers cannot civilize our kids.

If they come in as emotion/psychological/ immature wrecks, we can't fix them, no matter how many councilors these nitwits hire, nor how many antidrug, don't make babies, it's cool to be gay, rainbow non violence seminars they drag them into.

The kids know its a bunch of shit.
The teachers know it's a bunch of shit, but apparently the parents who elect the school boards (school boards usally filled with non-educators, I might add) apparently think it's freakin' shinolea.

Bullcrap. Read what some caring, educated teachers are concerned with:

EDblog - Professional Development 24/7

The Education Wonks - Thoughts And Ideas Freely Exchanged

Joanne Jacobs

tip of the iceberg

 

[RodISHI]

I'll make sure to let all my first, second and third grade special needs kids that education is bad. God forbid people be for public schools. Never mind that I'm teaching them to read, even though some are way below grade level, and math, so they can someday (hopefully) move onto having their own checking account as they get older.


Yep, damn government schools. When I go back to work next Monday I'll tell them they don't need to come to school anymore, because according to some of you, the teachers are worthless, and so are the schools.

It depends on where and what school system EZ. In grade school my children had wonderful teachers on a whole because they had a great principal most of that time. we lived in a small rural community.

In the fifth grade my son was special ed (dislexic) he had a teacher tell him how retarded he was. She basically told him to give up on a regular basis. When it was discovered what she was doing to students in special ed she had to change her ways towards students or else. I am sure you realize how much damage or good one teacher can do to a child's formative years.
In highschool he was so streesed he puke blood on a regular basis in one teachers class. She said he was doing it on purpose when she finally called me to tell me it was happening. She did not call to tell me he had a health issue. When I found out I got him to a specialist. He had a hernia in his esophagus (hiatal hernia common with old people not children).

In the highschool they went to it was the students that belong to a local church that recieved prefered treament by many of the teachers. Not all thankfully. My children were not in that preferred group.

We are grateful that they had a great principal through the majority of those formative gradeschool years. I cannot say the same for their highschool principal. Most third graders could spell better than this guy and he was only there for the paycheck.

Don't take it personal EZ that not all educators are as good for the children and care for them as much as you do.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Fucktard, my school and other schools do exactly like that.

First, I can see that I must remind you that you are not speaking to your mother. Or, as I don't know your mother, other than the fact that you are her product, perhaps she deserves the title above.

Now go back to that little bubble you call delusion. It's up to the students to take such courses, you know; that little thing called responsibility and reality?

Try to be more careful in your essay: I never used the term "delusion," and phrases like "that little thing, " which is singular, and then you proceed to use two terms. Reminds of the Joe Biden "talking about that three letter word: JOBS" But you do have several things in common with Joe Biden, beside your politics: I'll bet you've had the phrase "box of rocks" associated with your name more than once.

Though at this point, I'm sure you just want to blame the schools for trying to teach a little thing called acceptance of others and telling teens that there is more then only one solution to sex before marriage (which by the way works as well as putting gasoline on a open flame).

You do like using that phrase "a little thing." I don't want to picture the reason for that. I know that its wrong to laugh at one with such limited abilities as yourself, but I keep visualizing you sitting in the corner with that pointy paper hat, and it all collapses.
I would actually like schools to teach skills and facts, and a love of learning. If we could remove condoms, sex ed, and conflict resolution and touchy-feely and your kind of thinking (to use the term loosely) and replace same with the concepts that I've mentioned, and judge the schools with objective tests and comparisons to the results that other nations achieve at far less costs we'd be moving ahead. One simple step, and simple should appeal to you, would be to institute the rule of law in our schools, arrest thugs and instigators, ban from the schools those who make learning difficult, and throw out the teachers whose classes are consistently failing... but I'm sure that the politicrats would never allow this.

And to further my point: I've been in Finance for the past 3 years (with a great emphasis on Accounting too) and a single year of Accounting too.

I would of taken Business Management also this year if I had the space.

Well, you're certainly taking space.

EDIT: I can't believe I'm saying this but I actually agree with Dis for once somewhat. Teaching personal finance anyway is a responsibility of the parent or should be. You talk about how these schools are so Liberal yet you want to have Mommy Government teach your children how to do personal finances. Really?

Here I go again, visualizing you with that dunce hat. I should recall that you are not aware that at one time the schools were considered 'guardians of middle class values,' and were considered the agents of parents. You see, both parents and schools should work hand-in-hand to establish views and skills which make the child's future more secure. These skills and views include the how and why of saving, delay of gratification, and bottom-line thinking. How about you, one marshmallow or two?

After the last eight years of financial ruin, never mind the fucktardrity that we've had in our country's history you want the Government of all people in charge of teaching your kids how to do their finances?

Tell me, how do you claim to have any background in Finance, yet claim that that the last eight years were financial ruin??? The mortagage meltdown that precipitated the current crisis was caused in largest part by the Democrats, Bush began his administration given a recession by Clinton, (Bush says he inherited recession - Aug. 7, 2002), and then was faced with a terrorist attack, and an Iraq war (endorsed by every major Dem except Obama). There were 52 straight months of job creation, the longest in our country's history. Financial ruin??

Do I read that you "you want the Government of all people in charge of" to mean that you feel that the govenment simply cannot do any thing right? Is that the meaning of that word you made up above? Yet you probably support what's known as the Stimulus Bill???

Based on your rabid ranting post, I think you should consider as a future career, one to which your skills seem perfectly correlated, greeter at Wal-Mart.

 

[Agnapostate]

So you've gained nothing off the list, and have gained nothing from your education? The teachers were just out to get you, and it was a place to go while your parents worked?

That's not what she said. In fact, few would argue that the hierarchical and authoritarian nature of schools are due to the malevolent intents of teachers, but due to the ignorance that typically accompanies altogether benevolent intents.

Hence, it is indeed correct that compulsory schooling is not merely for the purpose of "learning," nor is its sole intent to satisfy division of labor criteria in the modern economy. Compulsory schooling in fact functions to uphold the hierarchical nature of the labor system, and is indeed intended to subordinate those who pass through the system.

As I mentioned in another thread, this purpose was established early in the history of American schooling, as its more authoritarian tenets were largely adapted from the Prussian model (which had the unfortunate consequence of fostering certain authoritarian regimes in Germany). To quote Lawrence A. Cremin, author of American Education: The National Experience 1783-1876:

"[Factories] required a shift from agricultural time to the much more precise categories of industrial time, with it's sharply delineated and periodized workday. Moreover, along with this shift in rhythm, the factory demanded concomitant shifts in habits and attention and behaviour, under which workers could no longer act according to whim or preference but were required instead to adjust to the needs of the productive process and the other workers involved in it...The schools taught [factory behaviour], not only through textbook preachments, but also through the very character of their organization--the grouping, periodizing, and objective impersonality were not unlike those of the factory."

This "industrial discipline" was drilled into students even more after the Great Depression, when large numbers of youth were herded out of the workforce and into the classroom to satisfy the demands of others who would compete for their positions. As I mentioned in another thread, a degree of malevolence and greed was indeed later responsible for youths' expulsion from the workplace and coerced entry into the schoolhouse. Examine the sadly crooked graph below.

Notice that the number of white males aged 16 in school prior to 1930 and beyond exceeded that of the number of white males aged 16 that were working, but not by a substantial amount. In the early 1930's, however, with more than a quarter of the population unemployed due to the Great Depression, the government was successful in passing legislation largely eliminating youth from the formal workforce, eliminating them as a source of competition for the multitudes of unemployed workers. Previous attempts to do this, such as the Keating-Owen Child Labor Act of 1916, were declared unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court. (See Hammer v. Dagenhart.) But this process was renewed once the Depression was in full swing through measures such as the 1933 National Industrial Recovery Act, which set a minimum working age of 16 in many industries. This second attempt to expand the Commerce Clause was again declared unconstitutional in Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States. Not to be deterred, several components of the 1936 Walsh-Healey Public Contracts Act included federal guidelines prohibiting "child labor." The Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 was the final nail in the coffin, and essentially established the current working age of 16.

There is a solution for this failure of compulsory schooling in the way of the abolition of mandatory attendance requirements, establishment of a framework of direct democratic management by students, and guarantee of the freedom to choose what to study (or not to study) at one's own leisure. I would recommend having a look at Matt Hern's [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Everywhere-All-Time-Deschooling-Reader/dp/1904859836/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233625806&sr=1-1"]Everywhere All the Time: A New Deschooling Reader[/ame].

Debates about education often revolve around standardized testing, taxes and funding, teacher certification-everything except how to best help kids develop learning skills. Everywhere All the Time presents an array of historical and contemporary alternatives to traditional schooling, demonstrating that children's capacity to learn decreases as soon as they enter bureaucratic, institutional facilities.

Census data in the United States alone places the number of home-schooled children at five hundred thousand. Trends point toward an increasing skepticism of the ability of public schools-and private ones, based on similar pedagogy-to give kids what they need to be healthy, self-directed life learners. Major themes in this book include: children's self-directed learning, encouraging community-building and participation from parents in the learning process, critical thinking for active engagement and democratic self-governance, and alleviating the negative psychological effects of traditional schooling methods. It also includes the voices and artwork of alternatively schooled children themselves.

From Leo Tolstoy, Ivan Illich, and Emma Goldman to John Taylor Gatto, John Holt, and Grace Llewellyn, Matt Hern has compiled an impressive cast of educational pioneers to aid parents, kids, and teachers in the quest for effective learning strategies.

A collection of writing from the most fervent and dedicated advocates of reform would serve as an excellent introduction for those unfamiliar with this field.

 

[random3434]

I'll make sure to let all my first, second and third grade special needs kids that education is bad. God forbid people be for public schools. Never mind that I'm teaching them to read, even though some are way below grade level, and math, so they can someday (hopefully) move onto having their own checking account as they get older.


Yep, damn government schools. When I go back to work next Monday I'll tell them they don't need to come to school anymore, because according to some of you, the teachers are worthless, and so are the schools.

It depends on where and what school system EZ. In grade school my children had wonderful teachers on a whole because they had a great principal most of that time. we lived in a small rural community.

In the fifth grade my son was special ed (dislexic) he had a teacher tell him how retarded he was. She basically told him to give up on a regular basis. When it was discovered what she was doing to students in special ed she had to change her ways towards students or else. I am sure you realize how much damage or good one teacher can do to a child's formative years.
In highschool he was so streesed he puke blood on a regular basis in one teachers class. She said he was doing it on purpose when she finally called me to tell me it was happening. She did not call to tell me he had a health issue. When I found out I got him to a specialist. He had a hernia in his esophagus (hiatal hernia common with old people not children).

In the highschool they went to it was the students that belong to a local church that recieved prefered treament by many of the teachers. Not all thankfully. My children were not in that preferred group.

We are grateful that they had a great principal through the majority of those formative gradeschool years. I cannot say the same for their highschool principal. Most third graders could spell better than this guy and he was only there for the paycheck.

Don't take it personal EZ that not all educators are as good for the children and care for them as much as you do.

RodISHI:

When I read things like you just wrote, about teachers that do that to children, I get so angry. How DARE they treat ANY child that way! Why in the hell was that woman allowed to teach? Was it an option to pull your son out of her classroom? I'm sorry your son had such a hard time in school, and I can see why you think the way you do.

But there are MANY of us out there that DO care for our students, and want what is best for them. Annie and I are two of them right here.

 

[Annie]

In my experience, teachers that are able to do everything without emotion are simply there for a paycheck, and in fact, are not good teachers at all.

Are you saying that teachers that don't yell and scream while they're teaching Physics, Geography, and Art are not good teachers? That's not my experience.

I'm passionate about what I teach, most of the time that means the kids are with me. Occasionally, it means I'm ranting and they are chatting. Not a good time to be them. Then I go nutso. Mostly that means, "Your choice, easy way or your way." Mostly they choose easy way. [/quote]

But it sounds like you want to dump yet another job on to them, that parents themselves should be doing. Perhaps if the parents are embarrassed at the amount of debt they've racked up, they should admit that fact, and teach the child not to do it, and show the child exactly where the problems come in (even using your delayed gratification example).

Perhaps not spelled out in the first "list," but the overall concept is the following: Schools were meant to be the guardian of middle-class values. Those values include saving and planning for the future. Why shouldn't both parents and schools teach accounting and personal finance, since the schools were designed as an extension of the parents. In fact, in earlier times, we used the latin phrase, in loco parentis (in place of a parent). Once again, both venues should stress those things which add stability to a child's future and that includes dealing with finances.

You are addressing only high school. Even someone like myself willing to teach econ. on some level to middle school, (grammar) kids are not dealing with finance and accounting. High school is 4 years, indeed a critical period, but still 4 out of 13, minimum.

Getting mad about what a class DOES teach, when it infringes on your personal beliefs isn't any better than expecting a class to teach only what you feel they should teach because for whatever reason, you don't want to. (you being collective; not you personally)

In it's latest incarnations, people who think the way you do, have decided that the schools should teach some populist view of morality and that curriculum should involve social planning, even if it runs counter to the parents' views. Modern activists courts have decided that parents have basically no rights to object to government-dictated morals and mores. By what stretch of the imagination, have you decided that the schools can teach government's ideas of BELIEFS? Who's BELIEFS? How do beliefs replace reading, writing, and arithmetic? Schools should teach skills and facts. And if you want beliefs in the curriculum, they should teach Judeo-Christian values, not a previous Surgeon General's idea of teaching masturbation to the young.[/QUOTE]

LOL, just found out 24 on. later.

 

[michiganFats]

I had some great teachers when I was in school. I don't blame the teachers for being saddled with poorly thought out course objectives. I blame administrators for most of what is wrong in the schools today. And the parents.

 

[RodISHI]

I'll make sure to let all my first, second and third grade special needs kids that education is bad. God forbid people be for public schools. Never mind that I'm teaching them to read, even though some are way below grade level, and math, so they can someday (hopefully) move onto having their own checking account as they get older.


Yep, damn government schools. When I go back to work next Monday I'll tell them they don't need to come to school anymore, because according to some of you, the teachers are worthless, and so are the schools.

It depends on where and what school system EZ. In grade school my children had wonderful teachers on a whole because they had a great principal most of that time. we lived in a small rural community.

In the fifth grade my son was special ed (dislexic) he had a teacher tell him how retarded he was. She basically told him to give up on a regular basis. When it was discovered what she was doing to students in special ed she had to change her ways towards students or else. I am sure you realize how much damage or good one teacher can do to a child's formative years.
In highschool he was so streesed he puke blood on a regular basis in one teachers class. She said he was doing it on purpose when she finally called me to tell me it was happening. She did not call to tell me he had a health issue. When I found out I got him to a specialist. He had a hernia in his esophagus (hiatal hernia common with old people not children).

In the highschool they went to it was the students that belong to a local church that recieved prefered treament by many of the teachers. Not all thankfully. My children were not in that preferred group.

We are grateful that they had a great principal through the majority of those formative gradeschool years. I cannot say the same for their highschool principal. Most third graders could spell better than this guy and he was only there for the paycheck.

Don't take it personal EZ that not all educators are as good for the children and care for them as much as you do.

RodISHI:

When I read things like you just wrote, about teachers that do that to children, I get so angry. How DARE they treat ANY child that way! Why in the hell was that woman allowed to teach? Was it an option to pull your son out of her classroom? I'm sorry your son had such a hard time in school, and I can see why you think the way you do.

But there are MANY of us out there that DO care for our students, and want what is best for them. Annie and I are two of them right here.

I know that EZ. Why? because of local politics. It is that away in any job out there.

In the end we did pull him out and hired tutors for him until he decided on his own to call it quits. The tutors came shortly after the throwing up blood incident. Long story. I am grateful every day that he survived it and eventually he overcame what a few people tried to put in his head. Can't say it was all easy but he's tough and he will stand up for anyone if he see's someone else being abused or bullied. He is just over thirty now and he can hold his own. He just started his own business recently. He got tired of making the boss a four to five hundred an hour on his labor. He does the work of five to six men or I should say that is what the guy had to hire when he quit

Everyone no matter who they are has things they will need to overcome here in this world.

 

[Annie]

It depends on where and what school system EZ. In grade school my children had wonderful teachers on a whole because they had a great principal most of that time. we lived in a small rural community.

In the fifth grade my son was special ed (dislexic) he had a teacher tell him how retarded he was. She basically told him to give up on a regular basis. When it was discovered what she was doing to students in special ed she had to change her ways towards students or else. I am sure you realize how much damage or good one teacher can do to a child's formative years.
In highschool he was so streesed he puke blood on a regular basis in one teachers class. She said he was doing it on purpose when she finally called me to tell me it was happening. She did not call to tell me he had a health issue. When I found out I got him to a specialist. He had a hernia in his esophagus (hiatal hernia common with old people not children).

In the highschool they went to it was the students that belong to a local church that recieved prefered treament by many of the teachers. Not all thankfully. My children were not in that preferred group.

We are grateful that they had a great principal through the majority of those formative gradeschool years. I cannot say the same for their highschool principal. Most third graders could spell better than this guy and he was only there for the paycheck.

Don't take it personal EZ that not all educators are as good for the children and care for them as much as you do.

RodISHI:

When I read things like you just wrote, about teachers that do that to children, I get so angry. How DARE they treat ANY child that way! Why in the hell was that woman allowed to teach? Was it an option to pull your son out of her classroom? I'm sorry your son had such a hard time in school, and I can see why you think the way you do.

But there are MANY of us out there that DO care for our students, and want what is best for them. Annie and I are two of them right here.

I know that EZ. Why? because of local politics. It is that away in any job out there.

In the end we did pull him out and hired tutors for him until he decided on his own to call it quits. The tutors came shortly after the throwing up blood incident. Long story. I am grateful every day that he survived it and eventually he overcame what a few people tried to put in his head. Can't say it was all easy but he's tough and he will stand up for anyone if he see's someone else being abused or bullied. He is just over thirty now and he can hold his own. He just started his own business recently. He got tired of making the boss a four to five hundred an hour on his labor. He does the work of five to six men or I should say that is what the guy had to hire when he quit

Everyone no matter who they are has things they will need to overcome here in this world.

My gosh, no child should have that hard of a time, nor his/her parents. I'm so sorry. Good for him if he was able to overcome so many walls. If there is ANYTHING I can do to help him, high school/college/some other venue? Ask. I'll do whatever I can. One door shuts, a window opens....

 

[RodISHI]

RodISHI:

When I read things like you just wrote, about teachers that do that to children, I get so angry. How DARE they treat ANY child that way! Why in the hell was that woman allowed to teach? Was it an option to pull your son out of her classroom? I'm sorry your son had such a hard time in school, and I can see why you think the way you do.

But there are MANY of us out there that DO care for our students, and want what is best for them. Annie and I are two of them right here.

I know that EZ. Why? because of local politics. It is that away in any job out there.

In the end we did pull him out and hired tutors for him until he decided on his own to call it quits. The tutors came shortly after the throwing up blood incident. Long story. I am grateful every day that he survived it and eventually he overcame what a few people tried to put in his head. Can't say it was all easy but he's tough and he will stand up for anyone if he see's someone else being abused or bullied. He is just over thirty now and he can hold his own. He just started his own business recently. He got tired of making the boss a four to five hundred an hour on his labor. He does the work of five to six men or I should say that is what the guy had to hire when he quit

Everyone no matter who they are has things they will need to overcome here in this world.

My gosh, no child should have that hard of a time, nor his/her parents. I'm so sorry. Good for him if he was able to overcome so many walls. If there is ANYTHING I can do to help him, high school/college/some other venue? Ask. I'll do whatever I can. One door shuts, a window opens....

Sweet of you Annie. He is over thirty now and he reads well. I would tell you the same thing a prominate governor that asked me, "What can I do for you?"

"Help the next child that you see that needs help. No child should ever have to go through what my son had to face at such a young age. Do what you can where you can."

That is all any of us can do. I think you probably do all of that already as many do.

 

[Annie]

I know that EZ. Why? because of local politics. It is that away in any job out there.

In the end we did pull him out and hired tutors for him until he decided on his own to call it quits. The tutors came shortly after the throwing up blood incident. Long story. I am grateful every day that he survived it and eventually he overcame what a few people tried to put in his head. Can't say it was all easy but he's tough and he will stand up for anyone if he see's someone else being abused or bullied. He is just over thirty now and he can hold his own. He just started his own business recently. He got tired of making the boss a four to five hundred an hour on his labor. He does the work of five to six men or I should say that is what the guy had to hire when he quit

Everyone no matter who they are has things they will need to overcome here in this world.

My gosh, no child should have that hard of a time, nor his/her parents. I'm so sorry. Good for him if he was able to overcome so many walls. If there is ANYTHING I can do to help him, high school/college/some other venue? Ask. I'll do whatever I can. One door shuts, a window opens....

Sweet of you Annie. He is over thirty now and he reads well. I would tell you the same thing a prominate governor that asked me, "What can I do for you?"

"Help the next child that you see that needs help. No child should ever have to go through what my son had to face at such a young age. Do what you can where you can."

That is all any of us can do. I think you probably do all of that already as many do.

I try. Daily, yearly. I have students from grades 6-8, three years. A transfer student from 6th grade. Her mom then was like, "I know she has LD, but the public schools..., well we modified per IEP, then challenged when we could. She took placement test in 8th grade for public high school, they want her in 3 ap classes. Her mom was like, "no way" I've convinced her to let her daughter give it a shot. She may drop one or 3, but WOW!

 

[Anguille]

I read an interesting blog post by Seth Godin, who some of you may know for his work in marketing, particularly as it relates to new media, web 2.0, etc. Anyway, here was his list of things school is for. I thought it might make an interesting discussion. I'm sure some of you will have some additional ideas or take exception to some of these.

I put in bold the ones I feel are especially true in how schools are run. Not necessarily how they should be run, but how I felt they were being run when I was there.


Become an informed citizen
Be able to read for pleasure
Be trained in the rudimentary skills necessary for employment
Do well on standardized tests
Homogenize society, at least a bit
Pasteurize out the dangerous ideas
Give kids something to do while parents work
Teach future citizens how to conform
Teach future consumers how to desire
Build a social fabric
Create leaders who help us compete on a world stage
Generate future scientists who will advance medicine and technology
Learn for the sake of learning
Help people become interesting and productive
Defang the proletariat
Establish a floor below which a typical person is unlikely to fall
Find and celebrate prodigies, geniuses and the gifted
Make sure kids learn to exercise, eat right and avoid common health problems
Teach future citizens to obey authority
Teach future employees to do the same
Increase appreciation for art and culture
Teach creativity and problem solving
Minimize public spelling mistakes
Increase emotional intelligence
Decrease crime by teaching civics and ethics
Increase understanding of a life well lived
Make sure the sports teams have enough players

So, what do you think?

Before I read this thread, I need to know if any of it will be on the final exam?

 

[Annie]

I read an interesting blog post by Seth Godin, who some of you may know for his work in marketing, particularly as it relates to new media, web 2.0, etc. Anyway, here was his list of things school is for. I thought it might make an interesting discussion. I'm sure some of you will have some additional ideas or take exception to some of these.

I put in bold the ones I feel are especially true in how schools are run. Not necessarily how they should be run, but how I felt they were being run when I was there.


Become an informed citizen
Be able to read for pleasure
Be trained in the rudimentary skills necessary for employment
Do well on standardized tests
Homogenize society, at least a bit
Pasteurize out the dangerous ideas
Give kids something to do while parents work
Teach future citizens how to conform
Teach future consumers how to desire
Build a social fabric
Create leaders who help us compete on a world stage
Generate future scientists who will advance medicine and technology
Learn for the sake of learning
Help people become interesting and productive
Defang the proletariat
Establish a floor below which a typical person is unlikely to fall
Find and celebrate prodigies, geniuses and the gifted
Make sure kids learn to exercise, eat right and avoid common health problems
Teach future citizens to obey authority
Teach future employees to do the same
Increase appreciation for art and culture
Teach creativity and problem solving
Minimize public spelling mistakes
Increase emotional intelligence
Decrease crime by teaching civics and ethics
Increase understanding of a life well lived
Make sure the sports teams have enough players

So, what do you think?

Amanda, I think you are addressing high school, but much of what you post could apply to middle school. I've never taught to any test, nor do I intend to.

I teach to what I think middle school students should know:

1. ancient history
2. legacies of #1
3. Founder's thinking and influence
4. Framer's thinking and influence
5. What occurs after 3 & 4.

 

[Agnapostate]

Yes, and the subject matter has essentially nothing to do with the hierarchical, authoritarian model in which it is presented.

 

[Annie]

Yes, and the subject matter has essentially nothing to do with the hierarchical, authoritarian model in which it is presented.

Dismissed. Are you unaware that no one takes you seriously. Stay in the forums you belong. Be gone, troll.