What if...?

[onefour1]

What if you were in Nazi Germany and it was politically correct to turn in hiding Jews. Would you do it? What if you could lose your job or be thrown into prison if you had such knowledge and didn't turn them in, would you do it? Would you kill another family of Jews if your family was threatened by the state if you didn't?

What if this happened in the USA and instead of Jews, it was Christians? What if the government labeled them as right wing radical terrorists even though there was no evidence. Would you turn them in if you had the opportunity? Would you persecute them? Even if the state threatened you or your family?

 

[Porker]

No...no...and another no.

 

[onefour1]

What if you were offered huge rewards? A fantastic dream job with lots of money? Maybe not just you but everyone in your family. What if your children were guaranteed bright futures in employment?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Many people risked death to hide Jews during that period, each of them that did it are heroes

 

[BluePhantom]

What if you were in Nazi Germany and it was politically correct to turn in hiding Jews. Would you do it? What if you could lose your job or be thrown into prison if you had such knowledge and didn't turn them in, would you do it? Would you kill another family of Jews if your family was threatened by the state if you didn't?

What if this happened in the USA and instead of Jews, it was Christians? What if the government labeled them as right wing radical terrorists even though there was no evidence. Would you turn them in if you had the opportunity? Would you persecute them? Even if the state threatened you or your family?

I hate "what if" questions. However, while most people, including myself, would like to believe they would take that strong stand against tyranny, my guess is that most people wouldn't. There have been so many studies about the psychology of going along with the group that it appears that conforming to group tendencies is somewhat hard-wired into our brains. For me personally, I would like to believe I would refuse to turn someone in, but all we need to do is look at the McCarthy-era Communist witch hunt, or perhaps even the random violence that occurred against American Muslims right after 9/11 to conclude that the majority of society would go along. The Milgram experiments are also pretty telling about the degree to which people will abandon their own moral parameters in the face of authority.

I would like to say that most Americans would refuse to engage in the scenario you suggest, but sadly it appears that we are mostly sheep that do what we are told.

 

[onefour1]

What if it were Muslims or Homosexuals? Would you do it then? Would you consider it justifiable?

Can we love others even though we disagree?

 

[BluePhantom]

What if it were Muslims or Homosexuals? Would you do it then? Would you consider it justifiable?

Can we love others even though we disagree?

It's not the topic that matters. It could be any topic or social demographic. What a person does or believes when they are alone is often different than what they will confess to when they are in a group. Consider the Asch experiments. Subjects were given a set of questions and the answers were so clear and obvious that no one would select any other answer. Yet because a group of people all gave the same wrong answer, the subject of the experiment often gave that same answer (that he knew to be wrong) simply because everyone else before him gave that answer.

Now get them in private and that won't happen, but what you are talking about is a social movement where the group is trending toward a certain course of action. Most research suggests that the average person will go along with the group whether they believe in it or not....unfortunately. Nazi Germany is a pretty damn good example of that dynamic.

 

[Derideo_Te]

What if we had a president who wanted to start an unprovoked war and accused anyone who didn't support him of being a terrorist supporter?

Oh wait, that already happened.

Which side of that ethical question was the OP on back then?

 

[BluePhantom]

here....watch the first five minutes or so of this and you will have your answer.

 

[onefour1]

Interesting video. But as SassyIrishLass pointed out, there are some that do not conform to the group. So it must not be an involuntary forced response. Plus, the case at hand would normally violate their sense of right and wrong. But then again, Nazi Germany was a classic example. Do you think a person's pre-conceived ethic would help them to not conform with the group or authority?

 

[BluePhantom]

Interesting video. But as SassyIrishLass pointed out, there are some that do not conform to the group. So it must not be an involuntary forced response. Plus, the case at hand would normally violate their sense of right and wrong. But then again, Nazi Germany was a classic example. Do you think a persons pre-conceived ethic would help them to not conform with the group or authority?

Well unfortunately in regard to choosing between right and wrong, it appears that humans are every bit as easily influenced. Check out the video below (it's kind of corny in how it's presented, but it makes the point thoroughly) and combine it with the video I posted previously and guess what you get? Nazi Germany...."we were just following orders". I don't think ethnicity has anything to do with it. The research seems pretty clear to me. Yes there are always exceptions, but for the most part we do what we are told even if it violates our ideas about right and wrong.

 

[September]

I would turn in the Jews
I'd turn in the Christians
But I would not turn in
The witches and Pagans
^_^

​

 

[onefour1]

So it appears to be more important to us (according to these scientific studies) to do as we are told or to fit in with the group than it is to do the morally right thing. So is it fair to say that it is important to choose morally responsible leaders and to teach the groups to make the morally right decisions. You would think that if we taught individuals morally correct principles that the group would naturally side with the morally right decision.

The video reminds me of when they gave the crowd the choice between Jesus and Barabbas that the priests incited the crowd to release Barabbas who was a murderer.

Mark 15:11-13
11 But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.
12 And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?
13 And they cried out again, Crucify him.

 

[Porker]

What if we had a president who wanted to start an unprovoked war and accused anyone who didn't support him of being a terrorist supporter?

Oh wait, that already happened.

And which president was that? My guess is Franklin D. Roosevelt (WWII) or John F. Kennedy(Vietnam).

It sure as hell wasn't George W. Bush...was it?

 

[Meriweather]

So it appears to be more important to us (according to these scientific studies) to do as we are told or to fit in with the group than it is to do the morally right thing. So is it fair to say that it is important to choose morally responsible leaders and to teach the groups to make the morally right decisions. You would think that if we taught individuals morally correct principles that the group would naturally side with the morally right decision.

Rather, according to scientific studies, two-thirds of us are more likely to do as we are told to fit in with the group, whereas one-third will protest if they believe protesting, or acting against the group is the morally better alternative. Studies further show that if other people in a group don't react, most will not...until...one person reacts. That prompts others to then react as well.

 

[Roadrunner]

What if you were in Nazi Germany and it was politically correct to turn in hiding Jews. Would you do it? What if you could lose your job or be thrown into prison if you had such knowledge and didn't turn them in, would you do it? Would you kill another family of Jews if your family was threatened by the state if you didn't?

What if this happened in the USA and instead of Jews, it was Christians? What if the government labeled them as right wing radical terrorists even though there was no evidence. Would you turn them in if you had the opportunity? Would you persecute them? Even if the state threatened you or your family?

If if were a skiff, I'd let them ride a boat to Sweden.

 

[Roadrunner]

What if you were in Nazi Germany and it was politically correct to turn in hiding Jews. Would you do it? What if you could lose your job or be thrown into prison if you had such knowledge and didn't turn them in, would you do it? Would you kill another family of Jews if your family was threatened by the state if you didn't?

What if this happened in the USA and instead of Jews, it was Christians? What if the government labeled them as right wing radical terrorists even though there was no evidence. Would you turn them in if you had the opportunity? Would you persecute them? Even if the state threatened you or your family?

Ever seen Inglourious Basterds??

Nobody knows what they would do until they have to do it.

 

[Meriweather]

Nobody knows what they would do until they have to do it.

This may be true only up to a point. In math, there is the term 'outlier'. An outlier is a data point that is distinctly separate from the rest of the data. An in depth look at self can help determine how much we seem to be a group player, or if we seem to be more of an outlier. Anyone who has risked losing, who has put themselves in danger rather than remaining safe, is likely to be an outlier when it comes to "What if" types of moral questions.

 

[PostmodernProph]

when I was a kid there was this couple in my church who had immigrated from the Netherlands......they were part of the underground railroad smuggling Jews out of Nazi territory......they would row them down the canals at night and hide them in the windmills during the day.......I remember them telling stories about it......I thought it was really cool.....

 

[Roadrunner]

Nobody knows what they would do until they have to do it.

This may be true only up to a point. In math, there is the term 'outlier'. An outlier is a data point that is distinctly separate from the rest of the data. An in depth look at self can help determine how much we seem to be a group player, or if we seem to be more of an outlier. Anyone who has risked losing, who has put themselves in danger rather than remaining safe, is likely to be an outlier when it comes to "What if" types of moral questions.

I am an outlier then.

In a real life or death situation, I get an out of body experience, and do things I would never do if I thought about them.

It's really freaky when it is over, and you knees go out!