CDZ What if we ARE alone?

[Syriusly]

You obviously don't understand science.

In order to discover what is true, you are required to speculate what might be true. You speculations must match the observed data or, if they don't, you must discard or change your speculations.

It is a methodology for discovery that has brought us out of ignorance but, it requires both hard calculated logic as well as a great deal of speculation.

To speculate on anything you really need more than one data point.

We only have one data point on life in the universe.

We need to have at least one more data point or else anything that we speculate on is nothing more than wishful thinking. At least that is what I learned in my Engineering classes.

A TV show where Cpt Kirk is screwing a green Orion Slave Girl is not a data point.

Somebody saying "there just has to more life in the Universe because it is so large" is not a data point.

Statistics doesn't produce life.

I agree.

Just like saying that life is complex so there must be an intelligent design.

We have no evidence of life outside of Earth and we have no evidence of an God like beings- stating that either must be true is just a matter of faith.

I believe in Intelligent design.

The reason is because the alternative to there being some intelligent design to the universe is believing that the universe was created by magic.

A universe creating itself out of nothing is as magic as you can get. Especially when you understand that for the universe to be created that way it goes against all the laws of physics as we know them.

When somebody can show me how this enormous universe was created out of nothing then I will change my mind. Until then not so much so.

Hey- I don't care whatever magic you believe in. As long as you don't pretend it is science.

But if you are going to chastise people for believing that life exists outside of earth because there is no data to support that conclusion, then I will just point out that there is no data to support your conclusion that any 'intelligence' created the universe- it is as much a matter of faith as those who decide that there must be other life elsewhere in the vast universe.

I haven't chastised anybody. You can believe whatever you want. If you want to believe in magic then fine.

I am not an Astrophysicist but as an Engineer that is somewhat versed in science I can't comprehend the idea that this enormous universe created itself out of nothing. That goes against everything I was taught about physics.

My personal opinion is that human existence and the existence of everything else is not magical happenstance. There is something else there that we can't comprehend.

It is an opinion (or maybe even a little faith) because I have no facts to back it up. Just like the secularist has no proof that the universe created itself out of nothing.

Certainly we can be in agreement that there is a lot we have not been able to comprehend- and a lot we likely will never be able to comprehend.

 

[Syriusly]

If our little blue spec is the ONLY place in the universe with biological life, you would have no choice but be down with the big guy in the sky. Know what I mean, Vern?

Frankly whether or not life exists in places other than earth has no relevance to whether there is some big fairy in the sky.

Life could exist here or all over the universe- whether life came from totally natural process or whether it came from some sky fairy.

 

[Syriusly]

a hypothesis can be created without a single data point

Yes, but you skipped the part where they can't be in disagreement with other known data points.

We know who created the pyramids. We know that human DNA evolved on this planet. Claiming an alien origin for human existence or human artifacts isn't science ... it's pop culture.

We assume we know who created the pyramids. There's been many times in the past that others have taken credit what someone else did. Another culture may have built the pyramids and what we call the Egyptians may have conquered them and decided to take the credit.

We assume that human DNA evolved on this planet. Even though we have no proof that life exists elsewhere and will be different, that does not mean that it is or will be significantly different, even at the DNA level. In which case if the lifeforms elsewhere have similar makeup, even at the cellular level, we wouldn't know if humans or the ancestor of the human form developed here or somewhere else.

Actually we really do know who built the pyramids- there are written records of the building, along with troves of archeological evidence that support the written records.

We also know that 'human' DNA evolved on this planet- certainly its possible that the very first life on earth came from somewhere else but we have plenty of evidence that 'homo sapien' DNA evolved here. The more recent discoveries that our DNA includes some Neanderthal and some Denosovian DNA just reinforces.

 

[Syriusly]

Doubt we're completely alone, but it may be very rare because the collision that created the moon was so important to the development of life.

There are 1000's of details that happened in a specific order just so life on Earth was possible.

They say the odds are like having 10,000 deck of cards all shuffled and drawing an Ace of Spades off of each deck.... Or like a tornado going through Detroit and putting a car together with the parts.

Life on Earth is a miracle.... It is clear proof that God exists.. Those that don't understand are either ignorant or stupid.

You are welcome to your fervently held religious belief. I won't call you stupid or ignorant- but there is no evidence that a god- any god- exists.

 

[Syriusly]

Doubt we're completely alone, but it may be very rare because the collision that created the moon was so important to the development of life.

There are 1000's of details that happened in a specific order just so life on Earth was possible. They say the odds are like having 10,000 deck of cards all shuffled and drawing an Ace of Spades off of each deck.... Or like a tornado going through Detroit and putting a car together with the parts. Life on Earth is a miracle.... It is clear proof that God exists.. Those that don't understand are either ignorant or stupid.

Do you know how many stars and planets there are? Even at the odds you mention the likelihood of there being another planet with intelligent life is entirely possible and doesn't prove the existence of God.

BTW, calling people "ignorant and stupid" is against the spirit of this forum. Please clean up your act. This isn't 'Politics' where you can say just about anything you want.

I never said life on another planet had anything to do with the reality of God's existence.

Calling people that can't see the obvious to be either stupid or ignorant (not 'and') is both accurate and clean. Perhaps I should DC have added 'dishonest' to the options.

And against the CDZ rules of against personal attacks. If you can't follow the rules you really shouldn't be posting here.

 

[konradv]

Doubt we're completely alone, but it may be very rare because the collision that created the moon was so important to the development of life.

There are 1000's of details that happened in a specific order just so life on Earth was possible. They say the odds are like having 10,000 deck of cards all shuffled and drawing an Ace of Spades off of each deck.... Or like a tornado going through Detroit and putting a car together with the parts. Life on Earth is a miracle.... It is clear proof that God exists.. Those that don't understand are either ignorant or stupid.

Do you know how many stars and planets there are? Even at the odds you mention the likelihood of there being another planet with intelligent life is entirely possible and doesn't prove the existence of God.

BTW, calling people "ignorant and stupid" is against the spirit of this forum. Please clean up your act. This isn't 'Politics' where you can say just about anything you want.

I never said life on another planet had anything to do with the reality of God's existence.

Calling people that can't see the obvious to be either stupid or ignorant (not 'and') is both accurate and clean. Perhaps I should DC have added 'dishonest' to the options.

You doubled down, so reported.

 

[alang1216]

A very sad prospect indeed to think that our miserable shabby assed excuse for intelligent life is the best that could be done.

That raises a question that atheists won't answer: Do you believe that humans are the highest form of intelligence in the universe?

I certainly hope not and I'm confident we are not. Unfortunately we won't know until we actually encounter a higher form since you can't prove a negative. It will be a very long time before we explore every planet of every solar system of every galaxy.

 

[Flash]

Doubt we're completely alone, but it may be very rare because the collision that created the moon was so important to the development of life.

There are 1000's of details that happened in a specific order just so life on Earth was possible.

They say the odds are like having 10,000 deck of cards all shuffled and drawing an Ace of Spades off of each deck.... Or like a tornado going through Detroit and putting a car together with the parts.

Life on Earth is a miracle.... It is clear proof that God exists.. Those that don't understand are either ignorant or stupid.

You are welcome to your fervently held religious belief. I won't call you stupid or ignorant- but there is no evidence that a god- any god- exists.

To me the very existence of the universe is proof of intelligent design.

Because if it wasn't intelligent design then that means the universe created itself out of nothing and that is not comprehensible to the human mind.

You don't get something for nothing. We even have a Law of Physics for that.

 

[Syriusly]

Doubt we're completely alone, but it may be very rare because the collision that created the moon was so important to the development of life.

There are 1000's of details that happened in a specific order just so life on Earth was possible.

They say the odds are like having 10,000 deck of cards all shuffled and drawing an Ace of Spades off of each deck.... Or like a tornado going through Detroit and putting a car together with the parts.

Life on Earth is a miracle.... It is clear proof that God exists.. Those that don't understand are either ignorant or stupid.

You are welcome to your fervently held religious belief. I won't call you stupid or ignorant- but there is no evidence that a god- any god- exists.

To me the very existence of the universe is proof of intelligent design.

Because if it wasn't intelligent design then that means the universe created itself out of nothing and that is not comprehensible to the human mind.

You don't get something for nothing. We even have a Law of Physics for that.

I don't see how believing in some god figure creating the universe is more 'comprehensible' than the universe creating itself out of nothing......I mean get real- where did the god figure come from?

 

[konradv]

Doubt we're completely alone, but it may be very rare because the collision that created the moon was so important to the development of life.

There are 1000's of details that happened in a specific order just so life on Earth was possible.

They say the odds are like having 10,000 deck of cards all shuffled and drawing an Ace of Spades off of each deck.... Or like a tornado going through Detroit and putting a car together with the parts.

Life on Earth is a miracle.... It is clear proof that God exists.. Those that don't understand are either ignorant or stupid.

You are welcome to your fervently held religious belief. I won't call you stupid or ignorant- but there is no evidence that a god- any god- exists.

To me the very existence of the universe is proof of intelligent design.

Because if it wasn't intelligent design then that means the universe created itself out of nothing and that is not comprehensible to the human mind.

You don't get something for nothing. We even have a Law of Physics for that.

True, if there was intelligent design, it lies in the Laws of Physics. Everything else, however, is evolution, IMO.

 

[Syriusly]

Yeah- often there is a conflation between evolution and the origins of the universe- which of course really doesn't make much sense.

Evolution doesn't require the origin to have come into creation any particular way.

 

[MarathonMike]

If our little blue spec is the ONLY place in the universe with biological life, you would have no choice but be down with the big guy in the sky. Know what I mean, Vern?

Frankly whether or not life exists in places other than earth has no relevance to whether there is some big fairy in the sky.

Life could exist here or all over the universe- whether life came from totally natural process or whether it came from some sky fairy.

It's all about probability. If you believe that life springs from non-living elements spontaneously given just the "right" conditions, then you are saying that set of conditions only happened once out of quadrillions of chances. That seems unlikely.

 

[Flash]

Doubt we're completely alone, but it may be very rare because the collision that created the moon was so important to the development of life.

There are 1000's of details that happened in a specific order just so life on Earth was possible.

They say the odds are like having 10,000 deck of cards all shuffled and drawing an Ace of Spades off of each deck.... Or like a tornado going through Detroit and putting a car together with the parts.

Life on Earth is a miracle.... It is clear proof that God exists.. Those that don't understand are either ignorant or stupid.

You are welcome to your fervently held religious belief. I won't call you stupid or ignorant- but there is no evidence that a god- any god- exists.

To me the very existence of the universe is proof of intelligent design.

Because if it wasn't intelligent design then that means the universe created itself out of nothing and that is not comprehensible to the human mind.

You don't get something for nothing. We even have a Law of Physics for that.

True, if there was intelligent design, it lies in the Laws of Physics. Everything else, however, is evolution, IMO.

When God created the universe he needed some kind of structure to it. If He didn't then we would have chaos.

One interesting thing about the gravity constant. If it was a just tiny fraction more or a tiny fraction less we would not have the universe. I don't think that was happenstance that the secularist believe.

 

[jwoodie]

Do you know how many stars and planets there are? Even at the odds you mention the likelihood of there being another planet with intelligent life is entirely possible and doesn't prove the existence of God.

This is the old mathematical argument that multiplying any value by infinity equals infinity. According to this logic, an exact replication of the Earth and everyone in it is not only a possibility, but a certainty. Do you really think that, somewhere in the universe, your exact body double is doing exactly the same thing you are doing at exactly the same time?

No, I never said that and didn't mean to imply it. You're putting words in my mouth by implying a logic that's nowhere to be found in my post.

Even at the odds you mention the likelihood of there being another planet with intelligent life is entirely possible

Given an infinite universe, possibility=probability=certainty.

 

[alang1216]

If our little blue spec is the ONLY place in the universe with biological life, you would have no choice but be down with the big guy in the sky. Know what I mean, Vern?

Frankly whether or not life exists in places other than earth has no relevance to whether there is some big fairy in the sky.

Life could exist here or all over the universe- whether life came from totally natural process or whether it came from some sky fairy.

It's all about probability. If you believe that life springs from non-living elements spontaneously given just the "right" conditions, then you are saying that set of conditions only happened once out of quadrillions of chances. That seems unlikely.

We don't know how often life springs from non-living elements spontaneously but it only happened once on this planet when there was no life already here. Once that happened all new life was merely food.

 

[konradv]

Doubt we're completely alone, but it may be very rare because the collision that created the moon was so important to the development of life.

There are 1000's of details that happened in a specific order just so life on Earth was possible.

They say the odds are like having 10,000 deck of cards all shuffled and drawing an Ace of Spades off of each deck.... Or like a tornado going through Detroit and putting a car together with the parts.

Life on Earth is a miracle.... It is clear proof that God exists.. Those that don't understand are either ignorant or stupid.

You are welcome to your fervently held religious belief. I won't call you stupid or ignorant- but there is no evidence that a god- any god- exists.

To me the very existence of the universe is proof of intelligent design.

Because if it wasn't intelligent design then that means the universe created itself out of nothing and that is not comprehensible to the human mind.

You don't get something for nothing. We even have a Law of Physics for that.

True, if there was intelligent design, it lies in the Laws of Physics. Everything else, however, is evolution, IMO.

When God created the universe he needed some kind of structure to it. If He didn't then we would have chaos. One interesting thing about the gravity constant. If it was a just tiny fraction more or a tiny fraction less we would not have the universe. I don't think that was happenstance that the secularist believe.

It's certainly possible. The Big Bang may have been the result of the Big Man, but all the rest is all evolution, right?

 

[Flash]

There are 1000's of details that happened in a specific order just so life on Earth was possible.

They say the odds are like having 10,000 deck of cards all shuffled and drawing an Ace of Spades off of each deck.... Or like a tornado going through Detroit and putting a car together with the parts.

Life on Earth is a miracle.... It is clear proof that God exists.. Those that don't understand are either ignorant or stupid.

You are welcome to your fervently held religious belief. I won't call you stupid or ignorant- but there is no evidence that a god- any god- exists.

To me the very existence of the universe is proof of intelligent design.

Because if it wasn't intelligent design then that means the universe created itself out of nothing and that is not comprehensible to the human mind.

You don't get something for nothing. We even have a Law of Physics for that.

True, if there was intelligent design, it lies in the Laws of Physics. Everything else, however, is evolution, IMO.

When God created the universe he needed some kind of structure to it. If He didn't then we would have chaos. One interesting thing about the gravity constant. If it was a just tiny fraction more or a tiny fraction less we would not have the universe. I don't think that was happenstance that the secularist believe.

It's certainly possible. The Big Bang may have been the result of the Big Man, but all the rest is all evolution, right?

You know that TBB is just a place holder, don't you? A place holder to explain something that can't be explained.

No scientist alive can tell you what was here before the BB, what energy initiated the BB or where the energy from the BB came from.

They also can't explain how the BB happen within the Laws of Physics as we know them.

However, to answer your question. The universe in general and microcosms within has changed over time. I think that is pretty much a given.

 

[MAGAman]

Frankly whether or not life exists in places other than earth has no relevance to whether there is some big fairy in the sky.

Life could exist here or all over the universe- whether life came from totally natural process or whether it came from some sky fairy.

If you think space, time, matter and energy all created themselves, you have blind faith.

 

[konradv]

You are welcome to your fervently held religious belief. I won't call you stupid or ignorant- but there is no evidence that a god- any god- exists.

To me the very existence of the universe is proof of intelligent design.

Because if it wasn't intelligent design then that means the universe created itself out of nothing and that is not comprehensible to the human mind.

You don't get something for nothing. We even have a Law of Physics for that.

True, if there was intelligent design, it lies in the Laws of Physics. Everything else, however, is evolution, IMO.

When God created the universe he needed some kind of structure to it. If He didn't then we would have chaos. One interesting thing about the gravity constant. If it was a just tiny fraction more or a tiny fraction less we would not have the universe. I don't think that was happenstance that the secularist believe.

It's certainly possible. The Big Bang may have been the result of the Big Man, but all the rest is all evolution, right?

You know that TBB is just a place holder, don't you? A place holder to explain something that can't be explained.

No scientist alive can tell you what was here before the BB, what energy initiated the BB or where the energy from the BB came from.

They also can't explain how the BB happen within the Laws of Physics as we know them.

However, to answer your question. The universe in general and microcosms within has changed over time. I think that is pretty much a given.

All I was saying is that there was no separate creation of the earth, animals or humans.

 

[Syriusly]

If our little blue spec is the ONLY place in the universe with biological life, you would have no choice but be down with the big guy in the sky. Know what I mean, Vern?

Frankly whether or not life exists in places other than earth has no relevance to whether there is some big fairy in the sky.

Life could exist here or all over the universe- whether life came from totally natural process or whether it came from some sky fairy.

It's all about probability. If you believe that life springs from non-living elements spontaneously given just the "right" conditions, then you are saying that set of conditions only happened once out of quadrillions of chances. That seems unlikely.

Well.....based upon that....there ma be

Frankly whether or not life exists in places other than earth has no relevance to whether there is some big fairy in the sky.

Life could exist here or all over the universe- whether life came from totally natural process or whether it came from some sky fairy.

If you think space, time, matter and energy all created themselves, you have blind faith.

I really take no position on how the Universe was created. I really don't know. I know there is no evidence of a 'God' creating man or anything else.
Don't think that not believing your fairy tales or taking a position is 'blind faith'