What If a Nuke Was Set To Explode Tomorrow ?

[protectionist]

OP is an age-old hypothetical - It simply wouldn't happen.

There is absolutely nothing to base that empty statement on. It certainly COULD happen, and at any time at all. Your post is a cowardly DODGE of the question.

 

[Defiant1]

I ask all posters to this thread to answer the following question with a YES or NO answer. Add more if desired, but please don't omit a yes or no answer.

Suppose a terrorist was captured and being interrogated by the FBI. Suppose he told the agents that a nuclear bomb was scheduled to be detonated in New York City, within 24 hours. With an estimated 2017 population of 8.6 Million, and despite being distributed over a massive land area of about 302.6 square miles, New York City is also the most densely populated major city in the United States.

If this nuclear bomb, of significant size and power, were exploded, it would kill millions of people, and be the most horrific single event in human history. And suppose the terrorist said he knew who the perpetrator was in charge of this heinous act, his location, the location of the device to be used to detonate the bomb, and how to easily disable it.

Bear in mind that torture is illegal under US law (Title 18 of US Code, Section 2340A)​

So here's the question. >> Would/should we allow millions of fellow Americans to be incinerated and radiated by this monstrous event, or would/should we do whatever it takes (including torture) to get this information from this terrorist, if it's apparent that that would stop the bomb ?

YES or NO.

New York City.
Meh

That would be pretty hard to pull off and a lot more risky than bringing it in through our friends south of the border.
So L.A. or Las Vegas maybe?

Yeah, L.A. the capital of Un-America

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

This is the kind of binary thinking to which Americans are so addicted. Either A or B. Good and evil. "Communist" or "capitalist".
Torture? Why not just truth drugs and hypnosis?

I'm open to whatever works.
But if your method fails I'm also open to ripping his toenails off with a set of pliers.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I ask all posters to this thread to answer the following question with a YES or NO answer. Add more if desired, but please don't omit a yes or no answer.

Suppose a terrorist was captured and being interrogated by the FBI. Suppose he told the agents that a nuclear bomb was scheduled to be detonated in New York City, within 24 hours. With an estimated 2017 population of 8.6 Million, and despite being distributed over a massive land area of about 302.6 square miles, New York City is also the most densely populated major city in the United States.

If this nuclear bomb, of significant size and power, were exploded, it would kill millions of people, and be the most horrific single event in human history. And suppose the terrorist said he knew who the perpetrator was in charge of this heinous act, his location, the location of the device to be used to detonate the bomb, and how to easily disable it.

Bear in mind that torture is illegal under US law (Title 18 of US Code, Section 2340A)​

So here's the question. >> Would/should we allow millions of fellow Americans to be incinerated and radiated by this monstrous event, or would/should we do whatever it takes (including torture) to get this information from this terrorist, if it's apparent that that would stop the bomb ?

YES or NO.

New York City.
Meh

That would be pretty hard to pull off and a lot more risky than bringing it in through our friends south of the border.
So L.A. or Las Vegas maybe?

Yeah, L.A. the capital of Un-America

It would help with the illegal immigrant problem thats for sure.

 

[DrLove]

How did u come to that conclusion? It seems like a plausible scenario to me

It is wrong to base policy on extreme hypotheticals and flawed logic.

BBC - Ethics - Torture: The 'ticking bomb' problem

The 'Ticking Time-Bomb' Defense of Torture Is Evasive and Irrelevant - The Atlantic

Alright,how about this scenario.
We dont torture him and the bomb goes off killing millions of Americans.
We then nuke the living shit out of a half dozen muslim cities across the middle east.
You good with that?

Read my links and get back to me with a coherent argument

 

[protectionist]

Well, the super caldera at Yellowstone could blow in my lifetime too - but the odds are about one in a million.

I don't think the odds against nuclear bombs in the US from jihadists is one in a million. Frankly, with the lax national security we've had for 8 years with Obama, and him being a jihadist himself, I'm surprised we haven't been hit already (or at least attempted)

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

How did u come to that conclusion? It seems like a plausible scenario to me

It is wrong to base policy on extreme hypotheticals and flawed logic.

BBC - Ethics - Torture: The 'ticking bomb' problem

The 'Ticking Time-Bomb' Defense of Torture Is Evasive and Irrelevant - The Atlantic

Alright,how about this scenario.
We dont torture him and the bomb goes off killing millions of Americans.
We then nuke the living shit out of a half dozen muslim cities across the middle east.
You good with that?

Read my links and get back to me with a coherent argument

Thats what I thought.
You'd just say they need more hugs.

 

[DrLove]

This is the kind of binary thinking to which Americans are so addicted. Either A or B. Good and evil. "Communist" or "capitalist".
Torture? Why not just truth drugs and hypnosis?

I've seen a whole bunch of ex CIA guys who were involved with torture say that they got more information out of a terrorist with a few cigarettes and a favorite meal than they did with torture.

 

[Rocko]

How did u come to that conclusion? It seems like a plausible scenario to me

It is wrong to base policy on extreme hypotheticals and flawed logic.

BBC - Ethics - Torture: The 'ticking bomb' problem

The 'Ticking Time-Bomb' Defense of Torture Is Evasive and Irrelevant - The Atlantic

Alright,how about this scenario.
We dont torture him and the bomb goes off killing millions of Americans.
We then nuke the living shit out of a half dozen muslim cities across the middle east.
You good with that?

Read my links and get back to me with a coherent argument

You’ve yet to answer the question. I want your opinion, not some leftists rag like the Atlantic’s opinion.

 

[DrLove]

Well, the super caldera at Yellowstone could blow in my lifetime too - but the odds are about one in a million.

I don't think the odds against nuclear bombs in the US from jihadists is one in a million. Frankly, with the lax national security we've had for 8 years with Obama, and him being a jihadist himself, I'm surprised we haven't been hit already (or at least attempted)

Yep - Michelle was a jihadist too - The "terrorist fist bump" was proof!

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

This is the kind of binary thinking to which Americans are so addicted. Either A or B. Good and evil. "Communist" or "capitalist".
Torture? Why not just truth drugs and hypnosis?

I've seen a whole bunch of ex CIA guys who were involved with torture say that they got more information out of a terrorist with a few cigarettes and a favorite meal than they did with torture.

So you really think a terrorist that is so hardcore as to place nuclear device in N.Y. is going to be bought off with a Coke and a pack of smokes?

We're not talking about native Americans,glass beads and a bottle of firewater.

 

[protectionist]

Thats not an answer.

Sure it is -

No it wasn't. THIS is what it was >>

 

[DrLove]

So you really think a terrorist that is so hardcore as to place nuclear device in N.Y. is going to be bought off with a Coke and a pack of smokes?

We're not talking about native Americans,glass beads and a bottle of firewater.

You'd have better luck with Sodium Pentothal

 

[Rocko]

Of course torture works. It’s really rather obvious. I think saying it doesn’t is disingenuous. Everyone knows it works on at least some people. Common sense!

 

[protectionist]

New York City.
Meh

What about New York City ? Cat got your tongue ?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So you really think a terrorist that is so hardcore as to place nuclear device in N.Y. is going to be bought off with a Coke and a pack of smokes?

We're not talking about native Americans,glass beads and a bottle of firewater.

You'd have better luck with Sodium Pentothal

Like I said.
Nothing is off the table.
Try the nice way once,if you dont get results the blow torch and pliers come out.

 

[DrLove]

Of course torture works. It’s really rather obvious. I think saying it doesn’t is disingenuous. Everyone knows it works on at least some people. Common sense!

Sorry - but the studies say otherwise.

No actionable intelligence was derived from the Bush torture program.

US report on 'enhanced interrogation' concludes: torture doesn't work
Does Torture Work? The C.I.A.’s Claims and What the Committee Found
CIA Torture Report Fast Facts - CNN
Senate report says CIA torture methods yielded no useful intelligence

 

[protectionist]

How did u come to that conclusion? It seems like a plausible scenario to me

It is wrong to base policy on extreme hypotheticals and flawed logic.

BBC - Ethics - Torture: The 'ticking bomb' problem

The 'Ticking Time-Bomb' Defense of Torture Is Evasive and Irrelevant - The Atlantic

You're turning it backwards. The OP isn't talking about policy, it's talking about reacting in a crisis situation. The hypothetical isn't the slightest bit extreme, it could happen at any time - today, tomorrow, next week.

And there is no flawed logic. I notice you're not offering any reasoning to back up your charge, Captain Courageous.

 

[DrLove]

Nothing is off the table.
Try the nice way once,if you dont get results the blow torch and pliers come out.

I don't wish to live in a country that tortures people. You should probably move to Turkey.

 

[evenflow1969]

I ask all posters to this thread to answer the following question with a YES or NO answer. Add more if desired, but please don't omit a yes or no answer.

Suppose a terrorist was captured and being interrogated by the FBI. Suppose he told the agents that a nuclear bomb was scheduled to be detonated in New York City, within 24 hours. With an estimated 2017 population of 8.6 Million, and despite being distributed over a massive land area of about 302.6 square miles, New York City is also the most densely populated major city in the United States.

If this nuclear bomb, of significant size and power, were exploded, it would kill millions of people, and be the most horrific single event in human history. And suppose the terrorist said he knew who the perpetrator was in charge of this heinous act, his location, the location of the device to be used to detonate the bomb, and how to easily disable it.

Bear in mind that torture is illegal under US law (Title 18 of US Code, Section 2340A)​

So here's the question. >> Would/should we allow millions of fellow Americans to be incinerated and radiated by this monstrous event, or would/should we do whatever it takes (including torture) to get this information from this terrorist, if it's apparent that that would stop the bomb ?

YES or NO.

No not today. My answer would be different if it years ago before todays tech. I have had several family members who have been in the intellegence apparatus. According to thier studies tortue is realy good at getting erronious info not so much on good info. Todays FBI interagation rooms are state of the art at finding lies and inconsistancies. There are techniques that can be used with these machines that are very smililar to what you use to see on the mentalist. Things like showing them places on a map and checking his body functions when hey see it, they will have a larger reaction the closer you get to what they are involved in. Only after all this failed would I consider alterantive techniques.