What does it mean to "love your country"?

[frigidweirdo]

I've asked this question before and everyone skirted around it, trying to avoid it.

What percentage of your country do you have to love in order to love your country?

Do you love Democrats? Do you love the inner city ghettos? Do you love the murder rate? Do you love the rape? Do you love all of the bad things in the US?

You never, ever complain about stuff?

This is the problem with your argument. You'll complain about things, and then say you love the country. Then say others don't love the country because they complain about stuff.

- I love Democrats but they need be fundamentally transformed
- I love inner city ghettos which need to undergo a fundamental transformation

How sincere do I sound by putting fundamental transformation” as a condition?

Well then, if you're being insincere, you clearly don't love your country. You have to love 100% of your country or you're not a patriot.

Inserting “fundamental transformation” in the context of love your country definitely proves your point. “Love 100% of your country or you are not a patriot” is absolute talk as is “fundamental transformation”. Perhaps a better approach would be to say that you live the country but you believe the country can do better. Simple.

There's a lot of things you could say.

Patriotism, love of your country, it's all subjective.

What's happening here is that people are trying to turn these expressions into something they can use to defend themselves with and attack their opponents.

If you turned it the other way around, if you imagine a dictatorship, and someone takes up arms to fight to rid the country of that dictatorship, does that mean they love their country (because they're willing to fight for it) and does it mean they don't love their country (because they don't like the political system)?

Same logic. Taking up arms to fundamentally transform the country to satisfy their conditional love for the country. Some people use swords and guns, others use pens.

I'm confused.

Wanting to fundamentally change your county makes you a patriot or not a patriot?

 

[Brian Blackwell]

Yes, but as you have noted, the other considerations about “country” are too nebulous or laden with variables or lack of exclusivity to pecisely define it. The only thing that clearly defines it is the ruling class. That is what the flag represents - the Republic. That is what the borders define - their claimed territory of authority.

That’s why when people say they love their country, they are referring to objects of imagination - values, ideals, potentialities. They associate these ideas with an obscure notion of “country”, but it’s pure dissonance. There is no logical basis for limiting any of that to this patch of land claimed as the property of a particular ruling class, or the people they unjustly burden with their fallacious authority. The connection is purposefully instilled via indoctrination; that’s the only reason why it’s there.

Isn't that the whole point of this?

People come on here and say "I love my country, I'm a patriot" but the reality is it's all obscure.

It's an emotional thing.

The right tend to use it because it doesn't pin down to one thing, they can say it, they can demand people follow it with the flag and the anthem etc, but it doesn't mean much.

Agreed, though it's worse than just being an impotent muttering, because the acceptance of national delineation is divisive, and a key factor in generating the fear and gang mentality necessary to keep dominators in place, and their mindless underlings doing their bidding.

It's wonderful to love the land - I think America is/was beautiful. Sometimes I look over at Manhattan and wonder how gorgeous this land must have been at one time. Twisting waterways, lush forest, miles of beaches, four seasons in perfect harmony... And I also think it's great to love a culture. I love most cultures; the music, the dress, the small nuances of mannerism and modality. The problem I have is the straight line drawn across the border that describes the territory of a mafia who claims everything and everyone inside that line, and the misguided association some people feel with that band of thugs.

The gang affiliation makes people say things like "We had to bomb the Japs to end the war". Talking about "the Japs" as one unified body is erroneous to the point of insanity. Individuals in government (and their wealthy controllers) are the ones who make war. Those people are not to be lumped in with the mother doing her laundry and watching her children, when a fucking firebomb turns her family to ash. Slapping a white rectangle with a red circle on top of millions of people and calling them "the Japs" is what allows another individual to fly bomb over people's houses and let it go. That man was psychologically compromised by this perverted version of "love of country" (which always carries the connotation of loving it MORE than other countries). If he remembered that he is just a man, not an "American" gang member, and that the woman was just a woman, not a "Japanese" gang member, at that there is no logical reason to associate himself or her with the people in their respective governments, he could never bring himself to do this. Malicious mind control is at the heart of such actions.

All evil is a perversion, not a creation; so there is a good version of "love of country". That's why I wanted to spend some time looking closely at what we really mean when we say this. We need to extract the evil disease of nationalism that ravages this otherwise beautiful sentiment.

Yes, nationalism is often a big problem.

China is doing things a little differently. Most Chinese hate the Japanese, but love Japanese cartoons, technology and the like. It's ridiculous.

They don't know why they hate the Japanese, they just know they do. I was in Xinjiang once and some guy told me how the Japanese had done this, that and the other, I didn't tell him that the Japanese got no where near Xinjiang right in the west of the country.

There's one language in China, Chinese. I've joked with Chinese people that if you speak English in China, it's just a dialect of Chinese.
Minorities are forced to be Chinese. The attitude of the CCP is "I'm in charge and you will do as you're told."

And in a way this kind of works. Yes, they have their problems with the Uighurs especially, but at some point they'll probably just end up giving up because they can't hope to ever win unless China goes crazy.

If you look at other countries like the US where patriotism has been used to try and bring a melting pot together, it's worked to an extent, but not for black people. The Irish came and assimilated, the Italians did the same. Both were seen as outsiders and reviled, but the blacks have struggled and still do, because of the color of their skin mostly, but potentially for other reasons too. This has kept the US separate, the far right groups want this separatism.

Also you have north v. south, it's always existed and may always exist because the US hasn't done what China has done.

Basically there are two solutions to everything: Either get enlightened, or just chill the f*ck out. Either of those will work.

I don't like to use the term "enlightened" - it has such a pretentious connotation to the modern ear. It just takes some concerted effort to learn and understand. You're not just born able to discern clearly, not in our artificial world of obfuscation and manipulation. Our culture has no respect for philosophy, and this is largely by design. We know there's an effort to dumb-down the culture. You think power-mongers want people reading philosophy and seeing clearly the ludicrous nature of their con? Of course not.

So, instead, if people would just chill out... Ya know, sometimes the world seems to be a trough surrounded by frantic, muddy pigs. I mean jeez.., if it means that much to you, just take it; I'll eat later. And if you elbow me out until I'm at risk of starvation, I guess I'll have to shoot you or something, but it's a damn shame we all couldn't just share. I mean how many goddam cars do you need? You've only got one ass. How many houses, and suits, and utter bullshit? I'm up to speed with the American culture, but honestly, if I had shelter, a chair, a table, a bed, a candle, some books, and a reliable source of food and water, I'd be OK. I like playing video games, and having more than one shirt, but I wouldn't be willing to diminish my character and resort to injustice in order to get them. You know what I'm getting at.

What's wrong with just being cool, sharing, and having fun? No, we've got to take over the world because we're scared little babies. And that's what every voter is trying to do when they go to the polls. They're saying "I want control, because I am scared". And devils in disguise leverage this to enslave humanity. And buy boats. Boats and planes. These guys loooove their boats and planes. Ehh, whatever....

It's all about power. China is trying to make its citizens be productive and yet not capable of thought that would make them challenge the political party.

They push Math, Chinese, English, Science, subjects with a right answer and a wrong answer, nothing much too subjective. If it is subjective, like History, they make it non-subjective, all about dates.

In the US it would seem that something similar exists, people are pushing the notion that education is "indoctrination", they want you to fear the govt and education is govt centered.

Both are ridiculous, both are about keeping power for the elites.

Thank you that insight into Chinese culture, I did not know that.

These “elites” would be beggardly cowards without henchmen to protect them, and it would be difficult to garner support for their acts of aggression were they not perceived as “authority”. Where would Stalin have been without government? Maybe rich guys could hire a few hundred or a few thousand henchmen, but you can’t kill 50 million people with that.

Don’t you think that if we could shed this notion of government as authority, we could prevent the lion’s share of evil in the world? No Mao’s, no Hitlers, no Nagasaki and Hiroshima, no trillions upon trillions of stolen loot, no millions of victimless crime “offenders” behind bars, etc.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Isn't that the whole point of this?

People come on here and say "I love my country, I'm a patriot" but the reality is it's all obscure.

It's an emotional thing.

The right tend to use it because it doesn't pin down to one thing, they can say it, they can demand people follow it with the flag and the anthem etc, but it doesn't mean much.

Agreed, though it's worse than just being an impotent muttering, because the acceptance of national delineation is divisive, and a key factor in generating the fear and gang mentality necessary to keep dominators in place, and their mindless underlings doing their bidding.

It's wonderful to love the land - I think America is/was beautiful. Sometimes I look over at Manhattan and wonder how gorgeous this land must have been at one time. Twisting waterways, lush forest, miles of beaches, four seasons in perfect harmony... And I also think it's great to love a culture. I love most cultures; the music, the dress, the small nuances of mannerism and modality. The problem I have is the straight line drawn across the border that describes the territory of a mafia who claims everything and everyone inside that line, and the misguided association some people feel with that band of thugs.

The gang affiliation makes people say things like "We had to bomb the Japs to end the war". Talking about "the Japs" as one unified body is erroneous to the point of insanity. Individuals in government (and their wealthy controllers) are the ones who make war. Those people are not to be lumped in with the mother doing her laundry and watching her children, when a fucking firebomb turns her family to ash. Slapping a white rectangle with a red circle on top of millions of people and calling them "the Japs" is what allows another individual to fly bomb over people's houses and let it go. That man was psychologically compromised by this perverted version of "love of country" (which always carries the connotation of loving it MORE than other countries). If he remembered that he is just a man, not an "American" gang member, and that the woman was just a woman, not a "Japanese" gang member, at that there is no logical reason to associate himself or her with the people in their respective governments, he could never bring himself to do this. Malicious mind control is at the heart of such actions.

All evil is a perversion, not a creation; so there is a good version of "love of country". That's why I wanted to spend some time looking closely at what we really mean when we say this. We need to extract the evil disease of nationalism that ravages this otherwise beautiful sentiment.

Yes, nationalism is often a big problem.

China is doing things a little differently. Most Chinese hate the Japanese, but love Japanese cartoons, technology and the like. It's ridiculous.

They don't know why they hate the Japanese, they just know they do. I was in Xinjiang once and some guy told me how the Japanese had done this, that and the other, I didn't tell him that the Japanese got no where near Xinjiang right in the west of the country.

There's one language in China, Chinese. I've joked with Chinese people that if you speak English in China, it's just a dialect of Chinese.
Minorities are forced to be Chinese. The attitude of the CCP is "I'm in charge and you will do as you're told."

And in a way this kind of works. Yes, they have their problems with the Uighurs especially, but at some point they'll probably just end up giving up because they can't hope to ever win unless China goes crazy.

If you look at other countries like the US where patriotism has been used to try and bring a melting pot together, it's worked to an extent, but not for black people. The Irish came and assimilated, the Italians did the same. Both were seen as outsiders and reviled, but the blacks have struggled and still do, because of the color of their skin mostly, but potentially for other reasons too. This has kept the US separate, the far right groups want this separatism.

Also you have north v. south, it's always existed and may always exist because the US hasn't done what China has done.

Basically there are two solutions to everything: Either get enlightened, or just chill the f*ck out. Either of those will work.

I don't like to use the term "enlightened" - it has such a pretentious connotation to the modern ear. It just takes some concerted effort to learn and understand. You're not just born able to discern clearly, not in our artificial world of obfuscation and manipulation. Our culture has no respect for philosophy, and this is largely by design. We know there's an effort to dumb-down the culture. You think power-mongers want people reading philosophy and seeing clearly the ludicrous nature of their con? Of course not.

So, instead, if people would just chill out... Ya know, sometimes the world seems to be a trough surrounded by frantic, muddy pigs. I mean jeez.., if it means that much to you, just take it; I'll eat later. And if you elbow me out until I'm at risk of starvation, I guess I'll have to shoot you or something, but it's a damn shame we all couldn't just share. I mean how many goddam cars do you need? You've only got one ass. How many houses, and suits, and utter bullshit? I'm up to speed with the American culture, but honestly, if I had shelter, a chair, a table, a bed, a candle, some books, and a reliable source of food and water, I'd be OK. I like playing video games, and having more than one shirt, but I wouldn't be willing to diminish my character and resort to injustice in order to get them. You know what I'm getting at.

What's wrong with just being cool, sharing, and having fun? No, we've got to take over the world because we're scared little babies. And that's what every voter is trying to do when they go to the polls. They're saying "I want control, because I am scared". And devils in disguise leverage this to enslave humanity. And buy boats. Boats and planes. These guys loooove their boats and planes. Ehh, whatever....

It's all about power. China is trying to make its citizens be productive and yet not capable of thought that would make them challenge the political party.

They push Math, Chinese, English, Science, subjects with a right answer and a wrong answer, nothing much too subjective. If it is subjective, like History, they make it non-subjective, all about dates.

In the US it would seem that something similar exists, people are pushing the notion that education is "indoctrination", they want you to fear the govt and education is govt centered.

Both are ridiculous, both are about keeping power for the elites.

Thank you that insight into Chinese culture, I did not know that.

These “elites” would be beggardly cowards without henchmen to protect them, and it would be difficult to garner support for their acts of aggression were they not perceived as “authority”. Where would Stalin have been without government? Maybe rich guys could hire a few hundred or a few thousand henchmen, but you can’t kill 50 million people with that.

Don’t you think that if we could shed this notion of government as authority, we could prevent the lion’s share of evil in the world? No Mao’s, no Hitlers, no Nagasaki and Hiroshima, no trillions upon trillions of stolen loot, no millions of victimless crime “offenders” behind bars, etc.

No, I don't think getting rid of government would solve all our problems.

It's the irony of anarchy. With anarchy, people who want power would be in a position to take it, because those around them would be weak.

Life is about balance.

Too much sun, you die, too little sun, you die.
Too much water, you die, too little water, you die.

Government is essential. However as we progress and humans become more knowledgeable in general, we want government that reflects this.

The US has "Democracy" of some sort. People go and vote and then the system decides who has won. It also dictates who people vote for. The US system might have worked in the past, but it's outdated.

China doesn't have Democracy and ends up in pretty much the same situation as the US. The rich controlling government, though the rich have to play ball far more in China than in the US.

But on both sides the poor people are benefiting to a certain extent, but also being forced to play a part they might not want to be play, and certainly they have little to no say in the process.

When you look at how Americans vote, you can't argue with Chinese people who say Democracy isn't necessarily the answer.

If you look at India and compare it to China, you see that Democracy can be a leech on society. Money, time and effort get spent on appearing to be something when really those politicians should be doing their jobs. India is way, way behind China, and yet has had since 1948 to sort itself out, China since 1975,

 

[ding]

I can't help but get the feeling that Brian is an anarchist.

 

[ding]

"All kinds of people today call themselves “libertarians,” especially something calling itself the New Right, which consists of hippies, except that they’re anarchists instead of collectivists. But of course, anarchists are collectivists. Capitalism is the one system that requires absolute objective law, yet they want to combine capitalism and anarchism. That is worse than anything the New Left has proposed. It’s a mockery of philosophy and ideology. They sling slogans and try to ride on two bandwagons. They want to be hippies, but don’t want to preach collectivism, because those jobs are already taken. But anarchism is a logical outgrowth of the anti-intellectual side of collectivism. I could deal with a Marxist with a greater chance of reaching some kind of understanding, and with much greater respect. The anarchist is the scum of the intellectual world of the left, which has given them up. So the right picks up another leftist discard. That’s the Libertarian movement." Ayn Rand

 

[MaryL]

What is meant by saying you love your country?

Does it mean you love:
-The government?
-The people inhabiting a particular area of land?
-The land itself?
-The culture (language, entertainment, beliefs, etc.)

All things considered, I don't believe there is anyone who would say they love any of these things in total, or to the exclusion of all other examples throughout the world. It seems reasonable to presume that there are things you like about your culture, for instance, and things that you do not like about it. But that could also be said about many other cultures. For instance, most people enjoy some of the food popular in their culture, but not all of them; but they also like some Italian foods, and not all of them. I think this could be said of any aspect of a "country" such that the expression does not seem to mean anything particular at all.

I suspect it may just refer to an emotional state that is connected with a nebulous notion of "the country". Precisely what constitutes the country is difficult to define. What do we really mean? Where does this idea come from? Did it originate within ourselves, or is it just something we picked up from the culture itself?

So in that same spirit of hair splitting, what is "ourselves"? Who picked being born, who picked their sex or species? How far do we digress from our selves and why is so bad if we have an national,sexual and political identity and YOU don't? Who says its bad, and why?

 

[MaryL]

What is meant by saying you love your country?

Does it mean you love:
-The government?
-The people inhabiting a particular area of land?
-The land itself?
-The culture (language, entertainment, beliefs, etc.)

All things considered, I don't believe there is anyone who would say they love any of these things in total, or to the exclusion of all other examples throughout the world. It seems reasonable to presume that there are things you like about your culture, for instance, and things that you do not like about it. But that could also be said about many other cultures. For instance, most people enjoy some of the food popular in their culture, but not all of them; but they also like some Italian foods, and not all of them. I think this could be said of any aspect of a "country" such that the expression does not seem to mean anything particular at all.

I suspect it may just refer to an emotional state that is connected with a nebulous notion of "the country". Precisely what constitutes the country is difficult to define. What do we really mean? Where does this idea come from? Did it originate within ourselves, or is it just something we picked up from the culture itself?

So in that same spirit of hair splitting open minded questioning, what is "ourselves"? Who picked being born, who picked their sex or species? How far do we digress from our selves and why is so bad if we have an national, sexual and
political identity and YOU don't? Who says its bad, and why?

 

[LeftofLeft]

- I love Democrats but they need be fundamentally transformed
- I love inner city ghettos which need to undergo a fundamental transformation

How sincere do I sound by putting fundamental transformation” as a condition?

Well then, if you're being insincere, you clearly don't love your country. You have to love 100% of your country or you're not a patriot.

Inserting “fundamental transformation” in the context of love your country definitely proves your point. “Love 100% of your country or you are not a patriot” is absolute talk as is “fundamental transformation”. Perhaps a better approach would be to say that you live the country but you believe the country can do better. Simple.

There's a lot of things you could say.

Patriotism, love of your country, it's all subjective.

What's happening here is that people are trying to turn these expressions into something they can use to defend themselves with and attack their opponents.

If you turned it the other way around, if you imagine a dictatorship, and someone takes up arms to fight to rid the country of that dictatorship, does that mean they love their country (because they're willing to fight for it) and does it mean they don't love their country (because they don't like the political system)?

Same logic. Taking up arms to fundamentally transform the country to satisfy their conditional love for the country. Some people use swords and guns, others use pens.

I'm confused.

Wanting to fundamentally change your county makes you a patriot or not a patriot?

Of course you are confused. Love of country and patriotism are different.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well then, if you're being insincere, you clearly don't love your country. You have to love 100% of your country or you're not a patriot.

Inserting “fundamental transformation” in the context of love your country definitely proves your point. “Love 100% of your country or you are not a patriot” is absolute talk as is “fundamental transformation”. Perhaps a better approach would be to say that you live the country but you believe the country can do better. Simple.

There's a lot of things you could say.

Patriotism, love of your country, it's all subjective.

What's happening here is that people are trying to turn these expressions into something they can use to defend themselves with and attack their opponents.

If you turned it the other way around, if you imagine a dictatorship, and someone takes up arms to fight to rid the country of that dictatorship, does that mean they love their country (because they're willing to fight for it) and does it mean they don't love their country (because they don't like the political system)?

Same logic. Taking up arms to fundamentally transform the country to satisfy their conditional love for the country. Some people use swords and guns, others use pens.

I'm confused.

Wanting to fundamentally change your county makes you a patriot or not a patriot?

Of course you are confused. Love of country and patriotism are different.

Yeah right

Definition of PATRIOTISM

" love for or devotion to one's country"

patriotism (noun) American English definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary

"strong feelings of love, respect, and duty toward your country"

The American Heritage Dictionary entry: patriotism

"Love of and devotion to one's country."

Snot wot du intelijent people iz sayin

 

[MaryL]

We question loving ones country now? WHY?

 

[LeftofLeft]

Inserting “fundamental transformation” in the context of love your country definitely proves your point. “Love 100% of your country or you are not a patriot” is absolute talk as is “fundamental transformation”. Perhaps a better approach would be to say that you live the country but you believe the country can do better. Simple.

There's a lot of things you could say.

Patriotism, love of your country, it's all subjective.

What's happening here is that people are trying to turn these expressions into something they can use to defend themselves with and attack their opponents.

If you turned it the other way around, if you imagine a dictatorship, and someone takes up arms to fight to rid the country of that dictatorship, does that mean they love their country (because they're willing to fight for it) and does it mean they don't love their country (because they don't like the political system)?

Same logic. Taking up arms to fundamentally transform the country to satisfy their conditional love for the country. Some people use swords and guns, others use pens.

I'm confused.

Wanting to fundamentally change your county makes you a patriot or not a patriot?

Of course you are confused. Love of country and patriotism are different.

Yeah right

Definition of PATRIOTISM

" love for or devotion to one's country"

patriotism (noun) American English definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary

"strong feelings of love, respect, and duty toward your country"

The American Heritage Dictionary entry: patriotism

"Love of and devotion to one's country."

Snot wot du intelijent people iz sayin

Great. Now, define “your country”.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There's a lot of things you could say.

Patriotism, love of your country, it's all subjective.

What's happening here is that people are trying to turn these expressions into something they can use to defend themselves with and attack their opponents.

If you turned it the other way around, if you imagine a dictatorship, and someone takes up arms to fight to rid the country of that dictatorship, does that mean they love their country (because they're willing to fight for it) and does it mean they don't love their country (because they don't like the political system)?

Same logic. Taking up arms to fundamentally transform the country to satisfy their conditional love for the country. Some people use swords and guns, others use pens.

I'm confused.

Wanting to fundamentally change your county makes you a patriot or not a patriot?

Of course you are confused. Love of country and patriotism are different.

Yeah right

Definition of PATRIOTISM

" love for or devotion to one's country"

patriotism (noun) American English definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary

"strong feelings of love, respect, and duty toward your country"

The American Heritage Dictionary entry: patriotism

"Love of and devotion to one's country."

Snot wot du intelijent people iz sayin

Great. Now, define “your country”.

Well that depends based on the person and how they think, doesn't it?

If you're born in a country and your parents are from this country, then it's your country, right?

If you're born in the country to parents from another country you might have various countries.

A lot depends on how you feel.

SO, do we agree that patriotism and love of country are the same thing?

 

[LeftofLeft]

Same logic. Taking up arms to fundamentally transform the country to satisfy their conditional love for the country. Some people use swords and guns, others use pens.

I'm confused.

Wanting to fundamentally change your county makes you a patriot or not a patriot?

Of course you are confused. Love of country and patriotism are different.

Yeah right

Definition of PATRIOTISM

" love for or devotion to one's country"

patriotism (noun) American English definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary

"strong feelings of love, respect, and duty toward your country"

The American Heritage Dictionary entry: patriotism

"Love of and devotion to one's country."

Snot wot du intelijent people iz sayin

Great. Now, define “your country”.

Well that depends based on the person and how they think, doesn't it?

If you're born in a country and your parents are from this country, then it's your country, right?

If you're born in the country to parents from another country you might have various countries.

A lot depends on how you feel.

SO, do we agree that patriotism and love of country are the same thing?

No. You had a decent argument going until you completely dropped the ball at the end about having parents from other countries and may have various countries. “A lot depends on you feel” ?????

 

[frigidweirdo]

I'm confused.

Wanting to fundamentally change your county makes you a patriot or not a patriot?

Of course you are confused. Love of country and patriotism are different.

Yeah right

Definition of PATRIOTISM

" love for or devotion to one's country"

patriotism (noun) American English definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary

"strong feelings of love, respect, and duty toward your country"

The American Heritage Dictionary entry: patriotism

"Love of and devotion to one's country."

Snot wot du intelijent people iz sayin

Great. Now, define “your country”.

Well that depends based on the person and how they think, doesn't it?

If you're born in a country and your parents are from this country, then it's your country, right?

If you're born in the country to parents from another country you might have various countries.

A lot depends on how you feel.

SO, do we agree that patriotism and love of country are the same thing?

No. You had a decent argument going until you completely dropped the ball at the end about having parents from other countries and may have various countries. “A lot depends on you feel” ?????

I'm sorry my world is a lot more expansive than your world.

Donald Trump has five children, four of them have mothers who were not born in the US. Yes, their mothers were US citizens at the time of birth, but there's more to the children than just being American.

Some kids have duel passports. I read about one of Trump's British friends, Nigel Farage whose youngest two children have both a British and German passports. Their parents are separated, one is German and one is British.

How should they identify themselves? The reality is they'll identify themselves as they feel they want to. Maybe they'll take German citizenship because they want an EU passport, maybe they'll take British citizenship. It depends. In Europe there are plenty of such kids and they feel equally from one country as another.

The reality is it's not up to YOU to decide how they feel, or which nationality they choose. It's possible to love more than one country.

 

[LeftofLeft]

You’ve completely shifted the conversation towards how one should identify themselves. To bring this back, I questioned how one could stare love for their country (meaning, as it stands now) when they are talking of fundamentally transforming it?

If someone says to you that they love you but you need to be fundamentally transformed, do you think they love you for who or what you are now or how they envision you to be which is completely different?

 

[Clementine]

It's about appreciating the constitution and Bill of Rights. Our founding fathers lived through dictatorships. They longed for a place where you could speak your mind, make a living the way you want and worship, or not worship, as you saw fit. It was about having inalienable rights that no government could take away.

Loving this country means loving liberty and freedom. It's that simple. When you look at countries run by dictators where only one religion is allowed, speech is controlled and your every move is watched, you can understand how good it is to live where we don't walk on eggshells everyday, fearful of a government that would imprison or even kill you for not obeying like a blind sheep.

People came here to escape tyranny. They came so they could choose their own paths. They came to openly worship. They came so they could speak their minds without fear of retribution. They came so they could enjoy privacy in their own homes. They came because of an innate need to truly feel free. They came because they didn't want to live in fear of government or evil. We can protect ourselves here instead of being at the mercy of evil. There are all the things the leftists seek to take away from each of us.

Too many don't understand what it means to love this country. Those people are dangerous because they are willing to sell everyone out because they believe the Hitler-esque talk about a caring government wanting to keep us safe.



The anti-America idiots are a huge danger to our freedom right now because they will vote for those who seek to become tyrants. Opposing speech is slowly being deemed hate speech and outlawed. Our right to protect ourselves is constantly under attack. Our education system has been hijacked to remove the truth about history, particularly the dangers of socialism, communism and Marxism. Our politicians attack Christianity but defend Islam.

And idiots march the streets demonstrating their total ignorance of what makes this country great. People don't flock here for the leftists policies. They come, or used to, for the opportunities and freedom.

Dumb asses don't get it. Each generation brings more puppets that are willing to try socialism again and always claim it will be different this time. It never is and never will be.

Thank you Clementine. Love the meme, by the way. Imagine the nerve of that woman; deliberately poking at the unjust wound opened by numerous infringements upon personal liberty. And she says "WE " as if she will be amongst those coming to take away the guns, but this is not so. She will be binge-watching Sex in the City while armed governmental thugs do her dirty work. If she is not willing to come get them herself, what right does she have to ask someone else to do it? And this is a pointed illustration of the overall problem...

You and I share fundamental values, and I agree with much of what you've said. Though I would argue that you have not taken your values to their logical conclusion.

If loving this country means loving liberty and freedom, then how can you abide a system of coercion that claims authority over your body and mind? Your body, by claiming a portion of the fruit of your labor under the threat of violence called taxation. Your mind, by claiming which states of consciousness you are permitted to experience via drug laws. How can you say "You have no right to take my guns" but still support governmental authority on other matters? Government makes a claim to authority, regardless of how those people get there, or your "right" to change who they are every now and then. The people occupying the seats of power within this institution have no valid claim to any authority, no matter how many people vote to the contrary. If you believe they do, you definitively do not love liberty and freedom.

I totally agree with you and thank you for expanding on my post.

Government, as many of us know, is merely a necessary evil that was intended to be kept in restraints. The entire point of creating the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was to ensure that the people remained in control and the government kept in check.

Of course, that has changed over the years due to the ignorance of people and the desire for power by those in office.

Too many people vote based on emotions. They think if the government takes away guns, then they will be safer. No logic involved and none can think about a scenario where a criminal armed with a gun, or even a knife, enters their home. With no means to defend ourselves, we are at the total mercy of criminals and the state, not that there is much difference between the two.

Our founding fathers never intended for income tax to be a permanent thing. The Federal Reserve should not exist. The government has overreached it's power for decades, all because of ignorant people who have come to worship government as the answer to everything.

Our forefathers warned that this would happen. Anyone who isn't afraid of the unlimited and oppressive powers held by government right now are the problem with this country. There will always be wannabe dictators. The trouble is that there are more and more useful idiots willing to let them succeed.