Zone1 What does it mean to be someone who thinks independently?

[Libby von H]

I come across a lot of people on this board who claim they are independent thinkers. So I figured it might be helpful to state what it means to me, because most if not all people who make this claim are dead wrong in my opinion.

My first caveat is this. Deciding for yourself, does not automatically mean you're right in your opinion. I would think this speaks for itself but I've noticed that most "independent thinkers" think their opinions are infallible. They aren't. If you don't confuse your opinion with stated fact you've taken the first major step on the road to truth.

So now how do we start making up our own mind? In my view you do so by collecting the best information available. So far nothing earth shattering I think.

The problem lays in deciding what the best available information is. To me the best information available is information that is as close to the original source of that information as possible, with the least possible outside opinion contaminating it. What do I mean by that? If you want to know what somebody said listen to that person saying it if possible. Of you can't, reading direct quotes is much better than reading the recap of another source. If you want to know about charges leveled at someone. Read the indictment, instead of relying on other people's opinion of that indictment. Etc. etc.

This poses a big problem to the "independent thinkers" on this board I've noticed. For most it seems that they select their sources BECAUSE of their bias, instead of DESPITE of it.

Which brings me to personal habits. If you want to truly make up your own mind, the thing to do is be very skeptical when your perceived opinion is in line with what you consider to be true after researching it. This is to avoid conformation bias. You have to make an honest effort to question the rationality of yourself in order to truly think independently. This is probably the hardest thing any person can do. It's also the most important thing to do if you truly want to make up your own mind.


I welcome any comment on this post. And I would truly love any discussion on any topic following these guidelines of independent thought.

You make the mistake Socrates warned about vociferously. He said If you would be wise in what matters in life you must be content to be ignorant about many things THAT DO NOT MATTER

Your advice is disastrous

In Praise of Prejudice: The Necessity of Preconceived Ideas by Theodore Dalrymple​

Today, the word prejudice has come to seem synonymous with bigotry; therefore the only way a person can establish freedom from bigotry is by claiming to have wiped his mind free from prejudice. English psychiatrist and writer Theodore Dalrymple shows that freeing the mind from prejudice is not only impossible, but entails intellectual, moral and emotional dishonesty. The attempt to eradicate prejudice has several dire consequences for the individual and society as a whole.

" These are not arbitrary, unthinking, ‘prejudicial’ ideas. They are, rather, ideas that are anchored in centuries of experience, ideas that have stood the test of time; collective wisdom, rational assumptions, and so on. He chooses the word ‘prejudice’ because it is now taboo and he wishes to make the point that good preconceived ideas are now frequently replaced by bad preconceived ideas. One example is the word ‘discriminate’. Once upon a time in a culture far, far away it was considered very important to be able to ‘discriminate’. To discriminate is to draw distinctions, to prioritize, to separate wheat from chaff, and so on. It is essential to the life of the mind."

Confirmation bias....I tutored Logic and no respectable Logic text takes that approach. EG Peter Kreeft
MILLIONS of people over thousands of years have given us our starting points and we are only logical if we accept that.

EDMUND BURKE

1. "The great difference between the real statesman and the pretender is, that one sees into the future…[and] acts on enduring principles and for immortality."
2. Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites; in proportion as their love of justice is above their rapacity; in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption; in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.

 

[forkup]

You make the mistake Socrates warned about vociferously. He said If you would be wise in what matters in life you must be content to be ignorant about many things THAT DO NOT MATTER

Your advice is disastrous

In Praise of Prejudice: The Necessity of Preconceived Ideas by Theodore Dalrymple​

Today, the word prejudice has come to seem synonymous with bigotry; therefore the only way a person can establish freedom from bigotry is by claiming to have wiped his mind free from prejudice. English psychiatrist and writer Theodore Dalrymple shows that freeing the mind from prejudice is not only impossible, but entails intellectual, moral and emotional dishonesty. The attempt to eradicate prejudice has several dire consequences for the individual and society as a whole.

" These are not arbitrary, unthinking, ‘prejudicial’ ideas. They are, rather, ideas that are anchored in centuries of experience, ideas that have stood the test of time; collective wisdom, rational assumptions, and so on. He chooses the word ‘prejudice’ because it is now taboo and he wishes to make the point that good preconceived ideas are now frequently replaced by bad preconceived ideas. One example is the word ‘discriminate’. Once upon a time in a culture far, far away it was considered very important to be able to ‘discriminate’. To discriminate is to draw distinctions, to prioritize, to separate wheat from chaff, and so on. It is essential to the life of the mind."

Confirmation bias....I tutored Logic and no respectable Logic text takes that approach. EG Peter Kreeft
MILLIONS of people over thousands of years have given us our starting points and we are only logical if we accept that.

EDMUND BURKE

1. "The great difference between the real statesman and the pretender is, that one sees into the future…[and] acts on enduring principles and for immortality."
2. Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites; in proportion as their love of justice is above their rapacity; in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption; in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.

Thanks for this response. It's thoughtful.

I think the problem here is a misconception of what I'm saying. It might be that I didn't express myself clearly enough.

I'm not claiming I can or have eradicated my own prejudices. I'm simply claiming I'm aware of them and as such need to try to make an honest attempt to distinguish between what you said are "good preconceived notions" and "bad preconceived notions". It would be impossible to do if I would simply assert that my preconceived notions are by definition correct.


I'll make it a little bit more practical.

Lately I've been more and more noticing how many fallacious arguments are used in defense of Trump (I'm sorry that I bring politics into the discussion but it is a political board and the example works.)

Now my preconceived notion is always been that fallacious arguments are most often used when no arguments are available on merit.

I'm also aware that I don't like Trump, and that I've got a pretty healthy ego. So I've been reluctant to draw that particular conclusion, precisely because my preconceived notion and my bias align.

I've since come to the conclusion that I'm simply right. But I feel that taking great care before you reach such a conclusion is imperative to independent thought.