what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

[Derideo_Te]

Ironic given that religion contains some of the biggest logical fallacies of all time.

The definition of religion comes from the Latin word religare which means to re-link.

No one can re-link to God on their own because Jesus provides the missing link.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Non sequitur!

 

[BreezeWood]

I don't deal with logical fallacies.

Chuck: No one can re-link to God on their own because Jesus provides the missing link.

how about illogical ones .... and does that include all Flora and Fauna or just you ?

.

 

[numan]

I went to college and got a degree.

so numan is just chopped liver ???

* think again .... Chuck.

Chopped Liver is an Ad Hominen argument which is a logical fallacy. I don't deal with logical fallacies.

Chuck's colege degree and my (admittedly profound) erudition are both ad hominems in reference to the topic (if any) discussed here.

.

 

[Chuckt]

Ironic given that religion contains some of the biggest logical fallacies of all time.

The definition of religion comes from the Latin word religare which means to re-link.

No one can re-link to God on their own because Jesus provides the missing link.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Non sequitur!

Man trying to do it himself without God is illogical because any relationship has to be reciprocal or complimentary and man usually writes the rules instead of asking God what His rules are. It is His house and God doesn't allow sin in His house.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The definition of religion comes from the Latin word religare which means to re-link.

No one can re-link to God on their own because Jesus provides the missing link.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Non sequitur!

Man trying to do it himself without God is illogical because any relationship has to be reciprocal or complimentary and man usually writes the rules instead of asking God what His rules are. It is His house and God doesn't allow sin in His house.

The only genuine relationship is a partnership of equals. Your religion advocates your God as the Master and his followers as Servants. That is not a "loving" relationship but one of servitude instead. No thanks. Life is way too short to waste it on imaginary one way relationships. Your God either accepts me for who I am or he doesn't. That is the only "rule" that matters if you want to have a genuine relationship.

 

[Chuckt]

Non sequitur!

Man trying to do it himself without God is illogical because any relationship has to be reciprocal or complimentary and man usually writes the rules instead of asking God what His rules are. It is His house and God doesn't allow sin in His house.

The only genuine relationship is a partnership of equals. Your religion advocates your God as the Master and his followers as Servants. That is not a "loving" relationship but one of servitude instead. No thanks. Life is way too short to waste it on imaginary one way relationships. Your God either accepts me for who I am or he doesn't. That is the only "rule" that matters if you want to have a genuine relationship.

He washed his disciples feet. He came to die for humanity and He experienced what we experienced.
He gives his servants the right to rule ten cities and He is going to reward us for what He does in our lives and He is going to give us back what we've lost in this life which sounds like a great deal to me.
The first will be last and the last will be first.
He called His followers friends.
Justification by faith is freedom.
God came to give us life and life more abundantly.
He called me into a community that is to love one another and forgive one another.

You're hung up on something radically different.

I'm trading in the slop here for something better. Anyone else who wouldn't needs to re-evaluate what their doing.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Man trying to do it himself without God is illogical because any relationship has to be reciprocal or complimentary and man usually writes the rules instead of asking God what His rules are. It is His house and God doesn't allow sin in His house.

The only genuine relationship is a partnership of equals. Your religion advocates your God as the Master and his followers as Servants. That is not a "loving" relationship but one of servitude instead. No thanks. Life is way too short to waste it on imaginary one way relationships. Your God either accepts me for who I am or he doesn't. That is the only "rule" that matters if you want to have a genuine relationship.

He washed his disciples feet. He came to die for humanity and He experienced what we experienced.
He gives his servants the right to rule ten cities and He is going to reward us

If it sounds too good to be true...

for what He does in our lives and He is going to give us back what we've lost in this life which sounds like a great deal to me.
The first will be last and the last will be first.
He called His followers friends.
Justification by faith is freedom.
God came to give us life and life more abundantly.
He called me into a community that is to love one another and forgive one another.

You're hung up on something radically different.

Kindly refrain from projecting your own hangups onto others.

I'm trading in the slop here for something better. Anyone else who wouldn't needs to re-evaluate what their doing.

So relationships between equals are "slop"? So far you haven't demonstrated "something better".

 

[IlarMeilyr]

The BEST way to find the correct path to heaven is

quality GPS.

 

[Chuckt]

The only genuine relationship is a partnership of equals. Your religion advocates your God as the Master and his followers as Servants. That is not a "loving" relationship but one of servitude instead. No thanks. Life is way too short to waste it on imaginary one way relationships. Your God either accepts me for who I am or he doesn't. That is the only "rule" that matters if you want to have a genuine relationship.

He washed his disciples feet. He came to die for humanity and He experienced what we experienced.
He gives his servants the right to rule ten cities and He is going to reward us

If it sounds too good to be true...

for what He does in our lives and He is going to give us back what we've lost in this life which sounds like a great deal to me.
The first will be last and the last will be first.
He called His followers friends.
Justification by faith is freedom.
God came to give us life and life more abundantly.
He called me into a community that is to love one another and forgive one another.

You're hung up on something radically different.

Kindly refrain from projecting your own hangups onto others.

I'm trading in the slop here for something better. Anyone else who wouldn't needs to re-evaluate what their doing.

So relationships between equals are "slop"? So far you haven't demonstrated "something better".

It depends on what you spend your time, money and energy on.

In the world, I have a relative that decided to spend his money on music and he has a whole bedroom in his house with shelves of LP records and in his life he decided to not spend his money on smoking but to actually get something that lasts. I wonder whom that sounds like...

Matthew 6:19 ¶ Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

Matthew 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

 

[IlarMeilyr]

so numan is just chopped liver ???

* think again .... Chuck.

Chopped Liver is an Ad Hominen argument which is a logical fallacy. I don't deal with logical fallacies.

Chuck's colege degree and my (admittedly profound) erudition are both ad hominems in reference to the topic (if any) discussed here.

.

^ noman's supposed "profound" erudition (he spelled 'allegedly' wrong, too) is entertainingly undercut by his grasp on the spelling of "college."



,

 

[Derideo_Te]

He washed his disciples feet. He came to die for humanity and He experienced what we experienced.
He gives his servants the right to rule ten cities and He is going to reward us

If it sounds too good to be true...

Kindly refrain from projecting your own hangups onto others.

I'm trading in the slop here for something better. Anyone else who wouldn't needs to re-evaluate what their doing.

So relationships between equals are "slop"? So far you haven't demonstrated "something better".

It depends on what you spend your time, money and energy on.

In the world, I have a relative that decided to spend his money on music and he has a whole bedroom in his house with shelves of LP records and in his life he decided to not spend his money on smoking but to actually get something that lasts. I wonder whom that sounds like...

Matthew 6:19 ¶ Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

Matthew 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Good point. Obviously I am wasting my time in this thread.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Chopped Liver is an Ad Hominen argument which is a logical fallacy. I don't deal with logical fallacies.

Chuck's colege degree and my (admittedly profound) erudition are both ad hominems in reference to the topic (if any) discussed here.

.

^ noman's supposed "profound" erudition (he spelled 'allegedly' wrong, too) is entertainingly undercut by his grasp on the spelling of "college."



,

When you make a typo, the errorists win!

 

[hobelim]

Stop with the degree bullshit already. If you never in all of your years of study had the intellectual honesty to question a talking snake or the resurrection of the dead or the ascension of Jesus to resolve what is written in scripture with what is well known to be true about reality you might as well have spent your time masturbating.

You read a magic spell about strawberries and smell and taste strawberries and think you have encountered some deep mystical power but all that experience shows a coherent person is that you are someone who is extremely susceptible to suggestive mind control or what the ancients called demonic possession.

...and you don't even have the sense to admit that you are as lost and as confused as a 3 year old child who can't find his mommy in a jungle teeming with ravenous brain eating creatures....

I wonder what evil power keeps you in such a dark dungeon if not your own false pride professor?

If God can create the heavens and the earth then everything else is possible.
The rest of your argument is just a large ad-hominen attack.

Wrong.

I'll give you that God is the cause of all that is seen and unseen but since God can do anything what he has actually done in creating a universe where anything is not possible, truth can be found and verified, claims can be tested, and bullshit can be done away with is make it possible for people to distinguish between true and false and know the truth.

What is impossible is that snakes could ever talk to people, people could ever physically rise from a biological death, and Jesus ever bodily ascended up into the sky leaving the allegorical implications of those same exact words the only possible truth.... .


By insisting in a literal interpretation of those same mentioned subjects even after you have been corrected makes you a deliberate deceiver professor, with a degree and a diploma to prove it.

 

[BreezeWood]

Stop with the degree bullshit already. If you never in all of your years of study had the intellectual honesty to question a talking snake or the resurrection of the dead or the ascension of Jesus to resolve what is written in scripture with what is well known to be true about reality you might as well have spent your time masturbating.

You read a magic spell about strawberries and smell and taste strawberries and think you have encountered some deep mystical power but all that experience shows a coherent person is that you are someone who is extremely susceptible to suggestive mind control or what the ancients called demonic possession.

...and you don't even have the sense to admit that you are as lost and as confused as a 3 year old child who can't find his mommy in a jungle teeming with ravenous brain eating creatures....

I wonder what evil power keeps you in such a dark dungeon if not your own false pride professor?

If God can create the heavens and the earth then everything else is possible.
The rest of your argument is just a large ad-hominen attack.

Wrong.

I'll give you that God is the cause of all that is seen and unseen but since God can do anything what he has actually done in creating a universe where anything is not possible, truth can be found and verified, claims can be tested, and bullshit can be done away with is make it possible for people to distinguish between true and false and know the truth.

What is impossible is that snakes could ever talk to people, people could ever physically rise from a biological death, and Jesus ever bodily ascended up into the sky leaving the allegorical implications of those same exact words the only possible truth.... .


By insisting in a literal interpretation of those same mentioned subjects even after you have been corrected makes you a deliberate deceiver professor, with a degree and a diploma to prove it.

What is impossible is that snakes could ever talk to people ...


but they do -

the coiled Rattler with extended fangs baring the pathway is speech enough here on Earth.


the Biblical Serpent when speaking was doing so as being in the OuterWorld of the Everlasting, nothing to unusual there at all .... h.

 

[theword]

If God can create the heavens and the earth then everything else is possible.
The rest of your argument is just a large ad-hominen attack.

Wrong.

I'll give you that God is the cause of all that is seen and unseen but since God can do anything what he has actually done in creating a universe where anything is not possible, truth can be found and verified, claims can be tested, and bullshit can be done away with is make it possible for people to distinguish between true and false and know the truth.

What is impossible is that snakes could ever talk to people, people could ever physically rise from a biological death, and Jesus ever bodily ascended up into the sky leaving the allegorical implications of those same exact words the only possible truth.... .


By insisting in a literal interpretation of those same mentioned subjects even after you have been corrected makes you a deliberate deceiver professor, with a degree and a diploma to prove it.

What is impossible is that snakes could ever talk to people ...


but they do -

the coiled Rattler with extended fangs baring the pathway is speech enough here on Earth.


the Biblical Serpent when speaking was doing so as being in the OuterWorld of the Everlasting, nothing to unusual there at all .... h.

The symbolic serpent is the false information in man's flesh that deceives ALL men from knowing the Truth. This delusion in the minds of men were needed to find God's servant (Christ) in the flesh of His prophets and saints and reveal this hidden knowledge to learn who we really are.

 

[hobelim]

If God can create the heavens and the earth then everything else is possible.
The rest of your argument is just a large ad-hominen attack.

Wrong.

I'll give you that God is the cause of all that is seen and unseen but since God can do anything what he has actually done in creating a universe where anything is not possible, truth can be found and verified, claims can be tested, and bullshit can be done away with is make it possible for people to distinguish between true and false and know the truth.

What is impossible is that snakes could ever talk to people, people could ever physically rise from a biological death, and Jesus ever bodily ascended up into the sky leaving the allegorical implications of those same exact words the only possible truth.... .


By insisting in a literal interpretation of those same mentioned subjects even after you have been corrected makes you a deliberate deceiver professor, with a degree and a diploma to prove it.

What is impossible is that snakes could ever talk to people ...


but they do -

the coiled Rattler with extended fangs baring the pathway is speech enough here on Earth.


the Biblical Serpent when speaking was doing so as being in the OuterWorld of the Everlasting, nothing to unusual there at all .... h.

When John the Baptist called the Pharisees a vipers brood he was not speaking about garden pests.

When Jesus called the Pharisees serpents it was right here on earth and when they spoke to Jesus they were not coiled rattlers with extended fangs speaking to him from the outerworld of the everlasting, whatever that is.....


Ever since grade school you have been aware that people call other people pigs, dogs, sheep, wolves, rats, vultures, maggots, worms and snakes according to the similarities in displayed behavior.


Wake up. Be opened.


You pay no heed to the hidden meaning of things but instead have been diverted by superstitious archaic lore. You have not understood the lessons of the past and have no knowledge about what is actually taking place, consequently you have done nothing to save your soul from the deeper implications of present events.


Unless you repent, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[BreezeWood]

Wrong.

I'll give you that God is the cause of all that is seen and unseen but since God can do anything what he has actually done in creating a universe where anything is not possible, truth can be found and verified, claims can be tested, and bullshit can be done away with is make it possible for people to distinguish between true and false and know the truth.

What is impossible is that snakes could ever talk to people, people could ever physically rise from a biological death, and Jesus ever bodily ascended up into the sky leaving the allegorical implications of those same exact words the only possible truth.... .


By insisting in a literal interpretation of those same mentioned subjects even after you have been corrected makes you a deliberate deceiver professor, with a degree and a diploma to prove it.

What is impossible is that snakes could ever talk to people ...


but they do -

the coiled Rattler with extended fangs baring the pathway is speech enough here on Earth.


the Biblical Serpent when speaking was doing so as being in the OuterWorld of the Everlasting, nothing to unusual there at all .... h.

When John the Baptist called the Pharisees a vipers brood he was not speaking about garden pests.

When Jesus called the Pharisees serpents it was right here on earth and when they spoke to Jesus they were not coiled rattlers with extended fangs speaking to him from the outerworld of the everlasting, whatever that is.....


Ever since grade school you have been aware that people call other people pigs, dogs, sheep, wolves, rats, vultures, maggots, worms and snakes according to the similarities in displayed behavior.


Wake up. Be opened.


You pay no heed to the hidden meaning of things but instead have been diverted by superstitious archaic lore. You have not understood the lessons of the past and have no knowledge about what is actually taking place, consequently you have done nothing to save your soul from the deeper implications of present events.


Unless you repent, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

it takes more than that to enter Heaven ... Remittance to the OutertWorld of the Everlasting is fine enough for me.

repent ??? - what makes you believe everyone is a sinner.


* what you see is the OuterWorld - being a part of it without the physiology is the goal of Life. with or without God the OuterWord exists .... being a DNA engineer would be fun - make my own gal and happy days forever.

.

 

[hobelim]

What is impossible is that snakes could ever talk to people ...


but they do -

the coiled Rattler with extended fangs baring the pathway is speech enough here on Earth.


the Biblical Serpent when speaking was doing so as being in the OuterWorld of the Everlasting, nothing to unusual there at all .... h.

When John the Baptist called the Pharisees a vipers brood he was not speaking about garden pests.

When Jesus called the Pharisees serpents it was right here on earth and when they spoke to Jesus they were not coiled rattlers with extended fangs speaking to him from the outerworld of the everlasting, whatever that is.....


Ever since grade school you have been aware that people call other people pigs, dogs, sheep, wolves, rats, vultures, maggots, worms and snakes according to the similarities in displayed behavior.


Wake up. Be opened.


You pay no heed to the hidden meaning of things but instead have been diverted by superstitious archaic lore. You have not understood the lessons of the past and have no knowledge about what is actually taking place, consequently you have done nothing to save your soul from the deeper implications of present events.


Unless you repent, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

it takes more than that to enter Heaven ... Remittance to the OutertWorld of the Everlasting is fine enough for me.

repent ??? - what makes you believe everyone is a sinner.

I don't believe everyone is a sinner.

Many people here would never try to pass off the incoherent nonsense that you offered that a real snake with fangs opened its mouth and a voice from some other dimension spoke as if a talking snake in a bronze age story could be anything other than a metaphor for a deceptive person, a low life religious deceiver.

You have either made great errors in your own speculations or a real living biblical style talking serpent fucked up your mind.

Is that too hard to believe for a person who claims to believe that a voice from some undefined outerworld of the everlasting spoke to people through the opened mouth of a species of reptile?


smarten up.

 

[numan]

'
If it is so obvious that the talking snake is just a metaphor and not a reality, why don't the churches come right out and say so, and help the simple-minded and ignorant from believing lies?

Hypocrites.

.

 

[theword]

When John the Baptist called the Pharisees a vipers brood he was not speaking about garden pests.

When Jesus called the Pharisees serpents it was right here on earth and when they spoke to Jesus they were not coiled rattlers with extended fangs speaking to him from the outerworld of the everlasting, whatever that is.....


Ever since grade school you have been aware that people call other people pigs, dogs, sheep, wolves, rats, vultures, maggots, worms and snakes according to the similarities in displayed behavior.


Wake up. Be opened.


You pay no heed to the hidden meaning of things but instead have been diverted by superstitious archaic lore. You have not understood the lessons of the past and have no knowledge about what is actually taking place, consequently you have done nothing to save your soul from the deeper implications of present events.


Unless you repent, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

it takes more than that to enter Heaven ... Remittance to the OutertWorld of the Everlasting is fine enough for me.

repent ??? - what makes you believe everyone is a sinner.

I don't believe everyone is a sinner.

Many people here would never try to pass off the incoherent nonsense that you offered that a real snake with fangs opened its mouth and a voice from some other dimension spoke as if a talking snake in a bronze age story could be anything other than a metaphor for a deceptive person, a low life religious deceiver.

You have either made great errors in your own speculations or a real living biblical style talking serpent fucked up your mind.

Is that too hard to believe for a person who claims to believe that a voice from some undefined outerworld of the everlasting spoke to people through the opened mouth of a species of reptile?


smarten up.

The serpent is a symbolic name for God's delusion in the minds of His people. It was meant to keep His people from His knowledge to know that everything is created by Him, including the delusion.

This delusion was needed to connect to His invisible servant ( energy without entropy ) in the flesh of prophets and saints to reveal Himself and His eternal plan for His invisible creation ( energy without entropy ).