What caused the national debt?

[signelect]

What caused the national debt?

Our elected leaders spent too much.

Elected leaders is an oxymoron. We have no leaders on either side and we are responsible for the debt, we kept electing fools. Regan raised the debt ceiling 17 times, this is an us issue not a party issue.

 

[saveliberty]

It's okay, my wife tells me she needs $125 a week for groceries for two people and the cat...

 

[Vanquish]

Here's the chart that really ends this whole debate as to who fucked us up...

Hmmm....Blame Obama or Blame Boooosh?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Here's the chart that really ends this whole debate as to who fucked us up...

Hmmm....Blame Obama or Blame Boooosh?

Were the projections for Obama created by the speech writer for Carter, or just repeated by the speech writer for Carter?

 

[Antiderivative]

Obama and the Dems are surely not helping things, but the causes of our debt can be traced back to Reagan and the new breed of Republicans who think that cutting taxes and spending more is being fiscally responsible. Even Hayek showed skepticism towards Reagonomics.

On the scale on which [tax cutting] is being tried, I’m a little apprehensive. I’m all for reduction of government expenditures but to anticipate it by reducing the rate of taxation before you have reduced expenditure is a very risky thing to do.

The only way you can finance deficits is by inflation. You cannot raise this amount of money by genuine borrowing. You borrow from banks, which create credit for the purpose. A large government deficit is a certain way to inflation.

~“A Nobel Winner Assesses Reagan”, New York Times, 1 December 1982.


Before Reagan, debt was not a problem. Every President reduced the debt as a percentage of gdp, outside of a divided term Nixon-Ford Presidency which only saw a marginal increase of 0.2 points. Under Reagan's first term, it exploded by 11 points, second term 9 points,. George H.W. Walker's term by 13 points. Bush's first term saw an increase in 7 point with a phenomenal increase of 21 points in his second term.
National debt by U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even big government liberals, like Johnson, LBJ, Carter, and Clinton were able to reduce the debt as a percentage of gdp.

What caused our debt? "Fiscal conservative, small government" Republicans caused most of our debt. Even after three debacles of expanding the government and increasing the debt astronomically, Republicans still think that they are the party of fiscal conservatism.

However, if you are a real fiscal conservative, I don't see how you could vote Republican. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop the kool-aid drinkers.

 

[Antiderivative]

Obama and the Dems are surely not helping things, but the causes of our debt can be traced back to Reagan and the new breed of Republicans who think that cutting taxes and spending more is being fiscally responsible. Even Hayek showed skepticism towards Reagonomics.

On the scale on which [tax cutting] is being tried, I’m a little apprehensive. I’m all for reduction of government expenditures but to anticipate it by reducing the rate of taxation before you have reduced expenditure is a very risky thing to do.

The only way you can finance deficits is by inflation. You cannot raise this amount of money by genuine borrowing. You borrow from banks, which create credit for the purpose. A large government deficit is a certain way to inflation.

~“A Nobel Winner Assesses Reagan”, New York Times, 1 December 1982.


Before Reagan, debt was not a problem. Every President reduced the debt as a percentage of gdp, outside of a divided term Nixon-Ford Presidency which only saw a marginal increase of 0.2 points. Under Reagan's first term, it exploded by 11 points, second term 9 points,. George H.W. Walker's term by 13 points. Bush's first term saw an increase in 7 point with a phenomenal increase of 21 points in his second term.
National debt by U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even big government liberals, like Johnson, LBJ, Carter, and Clinton were able to reduce the debt as a percentage of gdp.

What caused our debt? Republican policies caused them. "Fiscal conservative, small government" Republicans caused most of our debt. Even after three debacles of expanding the government and increasing the debt astronomically, Republicans still think that they are the party of fiscal conservatism. It is truly fucking insane.

However, if you are a real fiscal conservative, I don't see how you could vote Republican besides a select handful of them. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop the kool-aid drinkers touting party before principles and cheerleading empty talking points.

 

[candycorn]

I think he was commenting on your overall lack of credibility.

She's a big girl, let her speak for herself. Anyway, the points I make are valid and easily verified, about the monetary system, debt as money etc..You want to talk about the 9-11lie, post in the proper forum.

The fact that you REALLY REALLY believe the 9/11 Conspiracy nut-bar bullshit DOES reflect on how amazingly gullible you are.

Similarly, the fact that you REALLY REALLY believe the tripe you mutter about the "monetary system" doesn't make most of your spew any less incredible.

You have a conspiracy theory for EVERYthing which makes you credible on nothing.

You've shot your bolt.

Also, I'll say what I please in THIS thread with or without your permission. That YOU don't find it to be "on topic" certainly doesn't mean that it's not.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Londoner]

Republicans don't understand.

Starving the beast is a simple concept. You deprive the government of revenue, and you thrust it into a fiscal crisis, and then you say "we can no longer afford entitlements; nor can can we afford government agencies, like the regulators who check Enron's accounting and AIG's derivatives".

Reagan first tried it in 1981.

And what happened in 1981? The country had a fiscal crisis. But Reagan could not capitalize any more than Bush. They found it politically impossible to use debt & deficits as a tool to destroy the postwar entitlement system which enabled the middle class to consume and drive the economy.

The voting public does not want to get rid of the big three, especially SS and Medicare.

Here is the rub: Republicans still require votes from poor whites who want their SS and Medicare. So they need to get a Democrat to do it. Obama is the weakest, most rightwing democrat we've ever had - he gave up on the Public Option and Bush Tax Cuts without a fight. Obama is the GOP's tool for finally killing the postwar middle class.

 

[saveliberty]

Republicans don't understand.

Starving the beast is a simple concept. You deprive the government of revenue, and you thrust it into a fiscal crisis, and then you say "we can no longer afford entitlements; nor can can we afford government agencies, like the regulators who check Enron's accounting and AIG's derivatives".

Reagan first tried it in 1981.

And what happened in 1981? The country had a fiscal crisis. But Reagan could not capitalize any more than Bush. They found it politically impossible to use debt & deficits as a tool to destroy the postwar entitlement system which enabled the middle class to consume and drive the economy.

The voting public does not want to get rid of the big three, especially SS and Medicare.

Here is the rub: Republicans still require votes from poor whites who want their SS and Medicare. So they need to get a Democrat to do it. Obama is the weakest, most rightwing democrat we've ever had - he gave up on the Public Option and Bush Tax Cuts without a fight. Obama is the GOP's tool for finally killing the postwar middle class.

Total fabrication of lies and unsupported positions of the week. Obama is a socialist middle left loon.

 

[Mr. Jones]

Yes.

It apparently suits you being ignorant of the underlying situation, while you argue superficial BS.
Good day.

You said all money is debt.
I proved you're wrong.
Believe me, people who watch and believe those silly videos are the ignorant ones.

Watch out for the evil bankers, they're charging you interest on your $20s.

Its the only way his wife can get money out of him. "Oh honey, I need to pay interest on the money in your wallet tomorrow, give me a $50."

Cool, I'll just hand her less from now on because interest on my twenty is due!!
Seriously, you guys are are not seeing the reality of the situation, and not thinking this through.
Fractional Reserve Banking is what causes the ponzi scheme. Banks get to create money out of thin air and only have to keep a fraction of the deposits from customers in reserve. It is a confusing scheme but one worth reading up on for anyone not familiar with it.

Our money is debt. In order for our money to exist it must be LENT to us and it has INTEREST attached to it. Every dollar in existence is a "bill" that must be paid back to its owner. We can only pay this bill back with more bills. Therefore, it is mathematically impossible for us to have anything but inflation regardless of anything else. Every dollar in existence is naturally inflationary as there is interest attached to it.
So this is in essence, how you are paying the interest. The bill for money borrowed from the Federal Reserve is paid by you and me. It's paid almost immediately and it's paid in the form of higher prices for gasoline, food, rent, medicine, and everything else we buy.

Payment of the interest on loans, to the Federal Reserve begins immediately and continuing until the loan is fully paid off. That money to pay the interest comes out of the pockets of the present generation and from future generations.
Here's a thought... we have to pay interest on the national debt. But some citizens own a portion of the national debt, in the form of savings bonds and other government bonds. So some of the interest payment goes to them. You may be one of them. You'd want to keep your interest income coming. But the interest payment is being paid by taxpayers, and you may be one of them also...it's a tangled web.

Toddsterpatriot;3915770]You said all money is debt.
I proved you're wrong.

Really ? Prove it..
Dream on kid, the only thing you proved is how fucking ignorant you are of the world you live in and the money system that enslaves everyone. You don't even know how the money in your wallet is created!

 

[midcan5]

Another Chart for Your Debt Ceiling Discussions - James Fallows - Politics - The Atlantic

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

What caused the national debt? 6 culprits - The Week

1. The Bush tax cuts
The biggest culprit? The 2001 and 2003 tax cuts under then-president George W. Bush, says the Associated Press. They have added an estimated $1.6 trillion to the national debt. It's pretty clear, says Brian Beutler at Talking Points Memo, that Bush-era policies, "particularly debt-financed tax cuts," make up "the lion's share of the problem." And they're ongoing, so the tab for them builds every year.

2. Health care entitlements
Democrats "constantly harp" about the Bush tax cuts, says Peter Morici at Seeking Alpha, but those rates were in place in 2007, and the deficit that year was one-tenth this year's budget shortfall of $1.6 trillion. So what has changed since then? Added "federal regulation, bureaucracy, and new Medicaid and other entitlements have pushed up federal spending by $1.1 trillion — $900 billion more than required by inflation." And down the road, says Yuval Levin at National Review, our "health-entitlement explosion" will account for "basically 100 percent" of our debt problem.

3. Medicare prescription drug benefit
Another piece of the pie: George W. Bush's addition of Medicare's prescription drug benefit. That has added $300 billion to the debt, according to the AP. Expanding entitlements like Medicare, or last year's health-care reform package, is a particularly tempting way for Congress to run up debt, says Jagadeesh Gokhale at The Daily Caller. Since lawmakers don't typically map out a revenue strategy to fund those benefits, they are "shielded from the political costs of actually paying for the new programs."

4. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
The tab for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan comes to $1.3 trillion, another major chunk of new, unexpected spending over the last decade. "These wars cost us plenty," says Nake M. Kamrany at The Huffington Post, and they "have to be financed with borrowing, which adds up to national debt."

5. Obama's economic stimulus
The 2009 stimulus package enacted by President Obama cost $800 billion. And the 2010 tax-cut compromise between Obama and Republicans, which extended jobless benefits and reduced payroll taxes, added another $400 billion to the debt. Add another $200 billion for the 2008 bailout of the financial industry, and the government's efforts to soften the blow of the Great Recession amount to one of the largest chunks of the debt build-up. The "federal budget was one good year away from balancing" after 2007, says Tom Blumer at News Busters. But in the years since, Obama and Democrats in Congress put that goal out of reach.

6. The Great Recession
Some of the spending gap came from factors outside the control of Congress and the White House. As the government spent heavily to boost the economy, says the AP, it took in hundreds of billions less in tax revenue than expected, because the Great Recession eroded Americans' income and spending.

Your making it way more complicated than it is.

What caused the national debt? Democrats and Republicans in congress along with democrat and republican presidents passing and signing budget bills where the spending exceeds the revenue.

You can blame every congress and president from both parties over the last 20+ years, even clinton who had the best budgets added to the national debt.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You said all money is debt.
I proved you're wrong.
Believe me, people who watch and believe those silly videos are the ignorant ones.

Watch out for the evil bankers, they're charging you interest on your $20s.

Its the only way his wife can get money out of him. "Oh honey, I need to pay interest on the money in your wallet tomorrow, give me a $50."

Cool, I'll just hand her less from now on because interest on my twenty is due!!
Seriously, you guys are are not seeing the reality of the situation, and not thinking this through.
Fractional Reserve Banking is what causes the ponzi scheme. Banks get to create money out of thin air and only have to keep a fraction of the deposits from customers in reserve. It is a confusing scheme but one worth reading up on for anyone not familiar with it.

Our money is debt. In order for our money to exist it must be LENT to us and it has INTEREST attached to it. Every dollar in existence is a "bill" that must be paid back to its owner. We can only pay this bill back with more bills. Therefore, it is mathematically impossible for us to have anything but inflation regardless of anything else. Every dollar in existence is naturally inflationary as there is interest attached to it.
So this is in essence, how you are paying the interest. The bill for money borrowed from the Federal Reserve is paid by you and me. It's paid almost immediately and it's paid in the form of higher prices for gasoline, food, rent, medicine, and everything else we buy.

Payment of the interest on loans, to the Federal Reserve begins immediately and continuing until the loan is fully paid off. That money to pay the interest comes out of the pockets of the present generation and from future generations.
Here's a thought... we have to pay interest on the national debt. But some citizens own a portion of the national debt, in the form of savings bonds and other government bonds. So some of the interest payment goes to them. You may be one of them. You'd want to keep your interest income coming. But the interest payment is being paid by taxpayers, and you may be one of them also...it's a tangled web.

Toddsterpatriot;3915770]You said all money is debt.
I proved you're wrong.

Really ? Prove it..
Dream on kid, the only thing you proved is how fucking ignorant you are of the world you live in and the money system that enslaves everyone. You don't even know how the money in your wallet is created!

"Banks get to create money out of thin air and only have to keep a fraction of the deposits from customers in reserve"

They loan a portion of deposits, they don't get to create money out of thin air.

"Our money is debt. In order for our money to exist it must be LENT to us and it has INTEREST attached to it"

My $20s don't have interest attached. Still waiting for your proof that they do.

"Every dollar in existence is a "bill" that must be paid back to its owner. We can only pay this bill back with more bills"

Wrong. I don't have to pay my $20 back to anyone. I'm the owner.

"You don't even know how the money in your wallet is created!"

Sure I do!
The Fed sends an order to the Bureau of Engraving and Printing.
Did you ever tell me who you rent your $20s from?

 

[Freedomlover]

This question has an easy and quick answer. We have the national debt that we have because we demand too much from government and vote into office, for the most part, people who will meet our demands. We the people are responsible for the debt! We are the enemy!!

 

[saveliberty]

Greece just got downgraded to levels by Moody's due to too much spending for too long. Go ahead Democrats, ignore the problem past next Tuesday. The inflation you cause will crush this country just as easily as the debt ceiling issue. Except you will not be able to blame the Republicans.

 

[Chris]

The National Debt was caused by Reagan and Bush cutting taxes for the rich, Bush putting two wars and a Medicare drug program on his Chinese credit card, and Wall Street's $516 TRILLION DOLLAR Ponzi scheme which collapsed our economy.

 

[Chris]

Greece just got downgraded to levels by Moody's due to too much spending for too long. Go ahead Democrats, ignore the problem past next Tuesday. The inflation you cause will crush this country just as easily as the debt ceiling issue. Except you will not be able to blame the Republicans.

Yes we will.

The Republicans created the National Debt and now they are going to cause a default.

ReaganBushDebt.org

 

[Full-Auto]

The National Debt was caused by Reagan and Bush cutting taxes for the rich, Bush putting two wars and a Medicare drug program on his Chinese credit card, and Wall Street's $516 TRILLION DOLLAR Ponzi scheme which collapsed our economy.

LOL SO CLUELESS.

But I imagine you expect to be taken seriously though.

Thanks for the laugh anyway.

 

[saveliberty]

Greece just got downgraded to levels by Moody's due to too much spending for too long. Go ahead Democrats, ignore the problem past next Tuesday. The inflation you cause will crush this country just as easily as the debt ceiling issue. Except you will not be able to blame the Republicans.

Yes we will.

The Republicans created the National Debt and now they are going to cause a default.

ReaganBushDebt.org

There were a lot of Democrats who voted for those budgets. You know, back when we actually made budgets. Presidents do not authorize expenditures. Not even close.

 

[Chris]

The National Debt was caused by Reagan and Bush cutting taxes for the rich, Bush putting two wars and a Medicare drug program on his Chinese credit card, and Wall Street's $516 TRILLION DOLLAR Ponzi scheme which collapsed our economy.

LOL SO CLUELESS.

But I imagine you expect to be taken seriously though.

Thanks for the laugh anyway.

Reagan and Bush both doubled the National Debt and Wall Street's derivatives Ponzi scheme caused the economic collapse.

Sorry if you can't handle the truth.