we could survive slavery, we could survive Jim Crow, but we could not survive ......

[editec]

They didn't starve before welfare. A dependent welfare state has been created that never existed before. We have to now deal with the animal that has been created. Is the answer to just let it continue or to force change? You sound like you are happy to just let it continue.

I'm afraid they did

yet somehow their family infrastructure remained intact and they transitioned from slaves with nothing to productive workers. All without government intervention. The depression hit and everyone starved. FDR put in programs to get people working and he did. until jobs started to return. But a whole class of people never got off the gravy train, that never existed before, and they still are with us today in growing numbers. And why do we feel the need to provide for the illegals? Let theire own countries deal with them.

You have been misinformed on so many counts about this topic one wonders if you are for real.

I'm going to assume you are sincere.

Go read some history. In fact, go read a lot of it.

You've got a some serious catching up to do.

 

[Avorysuds]

Are you claiming that excelling is not assimilating?

In your scenario, yes... are you really going to argue this? If we are building sail boats in a class and I come in and build a speed boat have I assimilated with the rest of the class or gone off on my own?

I'm sorry...but that makes no sense

Are you claiming anyone who does not dumb themselves down is not assimilating? WTF is your point?

All I was doing was leading you to this point.

How is it Muslims without a Muslim President visiting Muslim only schools (in America)
able to get educations?

How it is Muslims were able to keep strong family ties without Government intervention like blacks apparently need? RW: on blacks starving without Government help “I'm afraid they did.”

How do Muslims manage to feed themselves and create businesses without Government coddling them along the way. You did say Blacks couldn’t feed themselves btw, because they are black…. RW: on blacks starving without Government help “I'm afraid they did.”

How did Muslins manage to break every barrier that by your own claims blacks couldn’t. Muslims did this without or very little Government help? How was it possible RW?

RW: “Historically, it is the rest of the human race that made the distinction of them being black”

RW: “Government aid causing the breakdown of black families may be a tail wagging the dog scenario.”

And yet Muslims RW: “Actually, Muslims have done a better job assimilating than most Americans.” Without all the Government aid, coddling.”

Are you saying the human race does not make the distinction of Muslims being Muslim like claim we do to blacks? Do blacks make that distinction towards Muslims as well? Why don’t Muslims get a free pass because of this like you give to blacks?

 

[rightwinger]

In your scenario, yes... are you really going to argue this? If we are building sail boats in a class and I come in and build a speed boat have I assimilated with the rest of the class or gone off on my own?

I'm sorry...but that makes no sense

Are you claiming anyone who does not dumb themselves down is not assimilating? WTF is your point?

All I was doing was leading you to this point.

How is it Muslims without a Muslim President visiting Muslim only schools (in America)
able to get educations?

How it is Muslims were able to keep strong family ties without Government intervention like blacks apparently need? RW: on blacks starving without Government help “I'm afraid they did.”

How do Muslims manage to feed themselves and create businesses without Government coddling them along the way. You did say Blacks couldn’t feed themselves btw, because they are black…. RW: on blacks starving without Government help “I'm afraid they did.”

How did Muslins manage to break every barrier that by your own claims blacks couldn’t. Muslims did this without or very little Government help? How was it possible RW?

RW: “Historically, it is the rest of the human race that made the distinction of them being black”

RW: “Government aid causing the breakdown of black families may be a tail wagging the dog scenario.”

And yet Muslims RW: “Actually, Muslims have done a better job assimilating than most Americans.” Without all the Government aid, coddling.”

Are you saying the human race does not make the distinction of Muslims being Muslim like claim we do to blacks? Do blacks make that distinction towards Muslims as well? Why don’t Muslims get a free pass because of this like you give to blacks?

It is quite simple really. Muslims excel in our society because they have strong family values that are enforced by the elders. Education is required, hard work is required, law breaking is not tolerated, marriage is required before children

If you read my post 17

The problem with black America is not social programs or racism...it is cultural. The predominant black culture has allowed its family structure to break down. 70% of black children are born to single mothers, a large proportion of black men are unemployed or in prison, education is not cherished or admired.

None of these problems can be solved by the government. Until black society stands up and insists on higher standards from its members, it will always be an economic drain on society

I just fail to see a cause and effect relationship between social programs and the breakdown of the Black American family structure

 

[Sheldon]

welfare programs"

That is quote from black economics professor Walther Williams from a Rush Limbaugh radio show he hosted a while ago. Can anyone help me figure out what he meant. Thanks

You're still posting?

 

[Avorysuds]

I'm sorry...but that makes no sense

Are you claiming anyone who does not dumb themselves down is not assimilating? WTF is your point?

All I was doing was leading you to this point.

How is it Muslims without a Muslim President visiting Muslim only schools (in America)
able to get educations?

How it is Muslims were able to keep strong family ties without Government intervention like blacks apparently need? RW: on blacks starving without Government help “I'm afraid they did.”

How do Muslims manage to feed themselves and create businesses without Government coddling them along the way. You did say Blacks couldn’t feed themselves btw, because they are black…. RW: on blacks starving without Government help “I'm afraid they did.”

How did Muslins manage to break every barrier that by your own claims blacks couldn’t. Muslims did this without or very little Government help? How was it possible RW?

RW: “Historically, it is the rest of the human race that made the distinction of them being black”

RW: “Government aid causing the breakdown of black families may be a tail wagging the dog scenario.”

And yet Muslims RW: “Actually, Muslims have done a better job assimilating than most Americans.” Without all the Government aid, coddling.”

Are you saying the human race does not make the distinction of Muslims being Muslim like claim we do to blacks? Do blacks make that distinction towards Muslims as well? Why don’t Muslims get a free pass because of this like you give to blacks?

It is quite simple really. Muslims excel in our society because they have strong family values that are enforced by the elders. Education is required, hard work is required, law breaking is not tolerated, marriage is required before children

If you read my post 17

The problem with black America is not social programs or racism...it is cultural. The predominant black culture has allowed its family structure to break down. 70% of black children are born to single mothers, a large proportion of black men are unemployed or in prison, education is not cherished or admired.

None of these problems can be solved by the government. Until black society stands up and insists on higher standards from its members, it will always be an economic drain on society

I just fail to see a cause and effect relationship between social programs and the breakdown of the Black American family structure

That one has Government handouts in excess and one does not... The 1 that has Government fitting them with a diaper (Aww Government family) fails more and more as the years go on the other seems to excel without the coddling and hand holding.

You not being able to see this is not shocking… Of course most blacks vote Democratic, the “Government Family party” takes care of them. If the handouts stopped in 10 years or less there would probably be a huge shift in who blacks vote for and at the same time blacks can make that assent up the social ladder of success.

 

[bodecea]

Yes sir. I will split it with you.

How about "As it is difficult to want to be part of a culture which ridicules you the black man resists blending into the larger American culture"

Everybody else, other then Muslims, have had no problem assimulating.

So what do you think is the problem?

Could it be that massive chip on their shoulder?

Hispanics are assimulating nicely? Good to know. I've heard complaints otherwise. I guess they were just lies.

 

[rightwinger]

All I was doing was leading you to this point.

How is it Muslims without a Muslim President visiting Muslim only schools (in America)
able to get educations?

How it is Muslims were able to keep strong family ties without Government intervention like blacks apparently need? RW: on blacks starving without Government help “I'm afraid they did.”

How do Muslims manage to feed themselves and create businesses without Government coddling them along the way. You did say Blacks couldn’t feed themselves btw, because they are black…. RW: on blacks starving without Government help “I'm afraid they did.”

How did Muslins manage to break every barrier that by your own claims blacks couldn’t. Muslims did this without or very little Government help? How was it possible RW?

RW: “Historically, it is the rest of the human race that made the distinction of them being black”

RW: “Government aid causing the breakdown of black families may be a tail wagging the dog scenario.”

And yet Muslims RW: “Actually, Muslims have done a better job assimilating than most Americans.” Without all the Government aid, coddling.”

Are you saying the human race does not make the distinction of Muslims being Muslim like claim we do to blacks? Do blacks make that distinction towards Muslims as well? Why don’t Muslims get a free pass because of this like you give to blacks?

It is quite simple really. Muslims excel in our society because they have strong family values that are enforced by the elders. Education is required, hard work is required, law breaking is not tolerated, marriage is required before children

If you read my post 17

The problem with black America is not social programs or racism...it is cultural. The predominant black culture has allowed its family structure to break down. 70% of black children are born to single mothers, a large proportion of black men are unemployed or in prison, education is not cherished or admired.

None of these problems can be solved by the government. Until black society stands up and insists on higher standards from its members, it will always be an economic drain on society

I just fail to see a cause and effect relationship between social programs and the breakdown of the Black American family structure

That one has Government handouts in excess and one does not... The 1 that has Government fitting them with a diaper (Aww Government family) fails more and more as the years go on the other seems to excel without the coddling and hand holding.

You not being able to see this is not shocking… Of course most blacks vote Democratic, the “Government Family party” takes care of them. If the handouts stopped in 10 years or less there would probably be a huge shift in who blacks vote for and at the same time blacks can make that assent up the social ladder of success.

I realize you have no statistical or scientific background. That does not prove cause and effect. All it shows is that poor people get welfare and rich people don't. It does not prove that welfare causes them to be poor

Can you point to any society on earth where removing assistance to those in poverty helped them to escape poverty?

 

[Avorysuds]

It is quite simple really. Muslims excel in our society because they have strong family values that are enforced by the elders. Education is required, hard work is required, law breaking is not tolerated, marriage is required before children

If you read my post 17



I just fail to see a cause and effect relationship between social programs and the breakdown of the Black American family structure

That one has Government handouts in excess and one does not... The 1 that has Government fitting them with a diaper (Aww Government family) fails more and more as the years go on the other seems to excel without the coddling and hand holding.

You not being able to see this is not shocking… Of course most blacks vote Democratic, the “Government Family party” takes care of them. If the handouts stopped in 10 years or less there would probably be a huge shift in who blacks vote for and at the same time blacks can make that assent up the social ladder of success.

I realize you have no statistical or scientific background. That does not prove cause and effect. All it shows is that poor people get welfare and rich people don't. It does not prove that welfare causes them to be poor

Can you point to any society on earth where removing assistance to those in poverty helped them to escape poverty?

And where is your proof?

I point to America.

 

[Toronado3800]

Unemployment is pretty easy on folks allowing them to wait for the cush job I agree.

what are you talking about????????????

Brutus, would you support a system more like the big government land grants on the 19th century?

where would you get the land exactly without a time machine??????

Perhaps the modern grants would be like you take uneremployment tyoe work anyplace we will subsidize your income for a year?

what??????

Brutus, how to say more plainly for you......

In my opinion the current unemployment bebefits system does not encourage people to take jobs "under their pay grade". For example an unemployed engineer will just stay unemployed for a year until he finds a good job.

Yes, with out going back in time we no longer have land for big government to hand out in exchange for improvements and hard work. Agreed. I think that system works well.

In my opinion we could use a modern equilivalent. Parks service work in exchange for unemployment? Force job benefits applicants to work at the Walmart job that comes along after three months in exchange for government benefits?

Understand?

Got any ideas to promote individual pride yourself?

 

[rightwinger]

That one has Government handouts in excess and one does not... The 1 that has Government fitting them with a diaper (Aww Government family) fails more and more as the years go on the other seems to excel without the coddling and hand holding.

You not being able to see this is not shocking… Of course most blacks vote Democratic, the “Government Family party” takes care of them. If the handouts stopped in 10 years or less there would probably be a huge shift in who blacks vote for and at the same time blacks can make that assent up the social ladder of success.

I realize you have no statistical or scientific background. That does not prove cause and effect. All it shows is that poor people get welfare and rich people don't. It does not prove that welfare causes them to be poor

Can you point to any society on earth where removing assistance to those in poverty helped them to escape poverty?

And where is your proof?

I point to America.

You have yet to prove your hypothesis

Show how removing aid from poor people will provide incentive to stop them from being poor any more

Show where this has ever worked anywhere in the world

 

[Avorysuds]

I realize you have no statistical or scientific background. That does not prove cause and effect. All it shows is that poor people get welfare and rich people don't. It does not prove that welfare causes them to be poor

Can you point to any society on earth where removing assistance to those in poverty helped them to escape poverty?

And where is your proof?

I point to America.

You have yet to prove your hypothesis

Show how removing aid from poor people will provide incentive to stop them from being poor any more

Show where this has ever worked anywhere in the world

Look at children... It's a sink or swing world RW... Now prove yours, now... Where in the world does extensive coddling and seemingly never ending Government aid promote poor people to become rich, or well off.


http://www.heritage.org/research/testimony/the-effects-of-welfare-reform

 

[rightwinger]

And where is your proof?

I point to America.

You have yet to prove your hypothesis

Show how removing aid from poor people will provide incentive to stop them from being poor any more

Show where this has ever worked anywhere in the world

Look at children... It's a sink or swing world RW... Now prove yours, now... Where in the world does extensive coddling and seemingly never ending Government aid promote poor people to become rich, or well off.


The Effects of Welfare Reform | The Heritage Foundation

You have yet to prove any case where removing aid to poor people makes them more likely to succeed

There are millions of cases where poor people have received medical, housing, food and educational assistance and went on to be productive citizens

 

[Brutus]

You have yet to prove your hypothesis

Show how removing aid from poor people will provide incentive to stop them from being poor any more

Show where this has ever worked anywhere in the world

Look at children... It's a sink or swing world RW... Now prove yours, now... Where in the world does extensive coddling and seemingly never ending Government aid promote poor people to become rich, or well off.


The Effects of Welfare Reform | The Heritage Foundation

You have yet to prove any case where removing aid to poor people makes them more likely to succeed

There are millions of cases where poor people have received medical, housing, food and educational assistance and went on to be productive citizens

I'm sure it goes without saying that if you give someone money they have less, not more, incentive to earn money on their own. This is especially true in a Democratic environment where someone like BO is always promising to give even more money.

 

[Avorysuds]

You have yet to prove your hypothesis

Show how removing aid from poor people will provide incentive to stop them from being poor any more

Show where this has ever worked anywhere in the world

Look at children... It's a sink or swing world RW... Now prove yours, now... Where in the world does extensive coddling and seemingly never ending Government aid promote poor people to become rich, or well off.


The Effects of Welfare Reform | The Heritage Foundation

You have yet to prove any case where removing aid to poor people makes them more likely to succeed

There are millions of cases where poor people have received medical, housing, food and educational assistance and went on to be productive citizens

And there are millions of cases where they didn't and went on to be productive citizens.

We are talking about walfare. Getting into HC and education aid has it's long term problems too, we happen to be getting to the point here where it's helped bankrupt the country and that won't help anyone. Don't change the goal post noob.

 

[Avorysuds]

Look at children... It's a sink or swing world RW... Now prove yours, now... Where in the world does extensive coddling and seemingly never ending Government aid promote poor people to become rich, or well off.


The Effects of Welfare Reform | The Heritage Foundation

You have yet to prove any case where removing aid to poor people makes them more likely to succeed

There are millions of cases where poor people have received medical, housing, food and educational assistance and went on to be productive citizens

I'm sure it goes without saying that if you give someone money they have less, not more, incentive to earn money on their own. This is especially true in a Democratic environment where someone like BO is always promising to give even more money.

Thank you, that is all I'm saying. Anyone in politics can promis to "give" people more, but they can't afford it very long (look at america & the world atm) and it's simply not fair.

 

[Toronado3800]

Unemployment is pretty easy on folks allowing them to wait for the cush job I agree.

what are you talking about????????????


where would you get the land exactly without a time machine??????

Perhaps the modern grants would be like you take uneremployment tyoe work anyplace we will subsidize your income for a year?

what??????

Brutus, how to say more plainly for you......

In my opinion the current unemployment bebefits system does not encourage people to take jobs "under their pay grade". For example an unemployed engineer will just stay unemployed for a year until he finds a good job.

Yes, with out going back in time we no longer have land for big government to hand out in exchange for improvements and hard work. Agreed. I think that system works well.

In my opinion we could use a modern equilivalent. Parks service work in exchange for unemployment? Force job benefits applicants to work at the Walmart job that comes along after three months in exchange for government benefits?

Understand?

Got any ideas to promote individual pride yourself?

Brutus?

 

[Brutus]

Parks service work in exchange for unemployment? Force job benefits applicants to work at the Walmart job that comes along after three months in exchange for government benefits?

Understand?

Got any ideas to promote individual pride yourself?

Brutus?[/QUOTE]

1) making a scientist work at Walmart to get unemployment insurance seems dumb when he could be looking for a job. Yes unemployment insurance is abused as is disability(often life long payments) which spikes during recessions.

2) who cares the issue in political discussion is conservative v liberal. Why change subject?

2)

 

[Toronado3800]

Parks service work in exchange for unemployment? Force job benefits applicants to work at the Walmart job that comes along after three months in exchange for government benefits?

Understand?

Got any ideas to promote individual pride yourself?

Brutus?

1) making a scientist work at Walmart to get unemployment insurance seems dumb when he could be looking for a job. Yes unemployment insurance is abused as is disability(often life long payments) which spikes during recessions.

2) who cares the issue in political discussion is conservative v liberal. Why change subject?

2)[/QUOTE]

Oh, my mind always runs from a team liberal vs team conservative debate towards the situation being discussed.

Your thread was about welfare breaking up black families by making them dependant on the government? I was just trying to come up with a way to:

1 lessen that dependence
2 save some benefits money
3 keep the economy churning
4 build pride in individuals by keeping them working.

Do you disagree with any of these?

I dont believe a chemist or construction worker who is out of a job for three months would accomplish finding a jon much quicker being unemployed 24 hours a day than delivering mattresses or flipping burgers. Perhaps it is just my exposure to the 20 something network admins and graphic designers I know.

Heck, and if they were working presumably they would be making their emoloyers more money.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

first of all, they weren't the only people in history to be enslaved.

They were the only people to be enslaved in a nominally free country.

He means that liberal policies of done more harm to black Americans

Such as?

Ending segregation? Civil Rights Act? Voting Rights Act?

Terrible, indeed.

I fail to see a cause and effect relationship between the social state of black America and the welfare system.

That’s because there isn’t any.

http://www.heritage.org/research/tes...welfare-reform

You’ve got to be kidding.

 

[Brutus]

first of all, they weren't the only people in history to be enslaved.

They were the only people to be enslaved in a nominally free country.

He means that liberal policies of done more harm to black Americans

Such as?

Ending segregation? Civil Rights Act? Voting Rights Act?

Terrible, indeed.

I fail to see a cause and effect relationship between the social state of black America and the welfare system.

That’s because there isn’t any.

http://www.heritage.org/research/tes...welfare-reform

You’ve got to be kidding.

Liberal programs amounted to a near genocide against black Americans. They destroyed the black family, sent the men to prison, made 75% of the kids illegitimate, made the women promiscuous and abortion prone, increased drop out rate and actually encouraged poor school work, and replaced love with cheap sex and hip hop violence.

Before the 60's there were periods when the black marriage rate was higher than the white rate. Before the 60's there were black HS's that sent kids to Ivy League colleges more so than now. Liberalism has been pure hell at best.