Vegans! What do you think of them?

[Synthaholic]

@ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things.

@ Si Modo - I haven't heard of things like tires or plastic bags containing animal products. I'm still learning but that is not something I've heard before. As for things like toothpaste, shampoo and other similar items, they make vegan ones too. My new vegan hand soap actually smells great. The scent is so nice and it lingers on my hands after I've washed them for quite a while, which I like.

That's great that you found such products.

You would be surprised at how many items in our everyday lives contain animal products. If you want to devote all that time to avoid animal products, you will likely have to spend every waking hour making your own stuff, or spend extra for a specialty product.

Likely, those vitamin supplements contain animal products, too.

I think choosing the vegan lifestyle is fine for those who wish it, but if you expect to completely avoid animal products, your lifestyle may change a hell of a lot more than you may expect. Strive for it, but really, give yourself a break on some things.

Of course, your choice. It's just the reality of the situation. Animal-derived products are ubiquitous.

If you believe in it strongly, every little bit helps. Even if you don't go to extremes.

I know that I have cut back my pork consumption probably 90% after this HBO documentary. I defy you to watch some of these and not have it have any effect on you, and make you re-think your supermarket choices.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuSSf8oSDtw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pF68lEXyso&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

 

[Si modo]

^Nope. I buy vegan vitamins that list the ingredients. No animal products For non-vegans it sounds daunting and time-consuming to try to live this way. I thought the same thing before I switched over. Which like I said, is why I'm really (pleasantly) surprised by how easy it is. Once you get the hang of it, it's like blinking (IMO).

As I said, you may be surprised. I doubt that you have eliminated animal products from your life.

Don't go to the doctor or the ER, either.

 

[Synthaholic]

Republicans are totally bought and in the pockets of their donors:


USDA retracts support of 'Meatless Monday' after GOP revolt


07/26/12 09:27 AM ET

The Department of Agriculture (USDA) retracted its endorsement of "Meatless Mondays" after GOP lawmakers blasted the move.

Republicans took to Twitter Wednesday to express their unhappiness with the USDA encouraging people to eat less meat.

I will eat more meat on Monday to compensate for stupid USDA recommendation abt a meatless Monday
— ChuckGrassley (@ChuckGrassley) July 25, 2012
​

USDA HQ meatless Mondays!!! At the Dept. Of Agriculture? Heresy! I'm not grazing there. I will have double rib-eye Mondays instead.
— Steve King (@SteveKingIA) July 25, 2012
​

The USDA lauded Meatless Monday in Monday's internal department newsletter as "one simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at our cafeterias."






The National Cattlemen's Beef Association and several members of Congress representing some of the biggest meat-producing states were quick to protest on Tuesday and Wednesday.

"Who at USDA thought 'Meatless Mondays' was good idea? Anti-[agriculture] agenda at USDA is irresponsible, even for a day," tweeted Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.).
​

What a bunch of fucking children!

I don't find it childish at all. Many find that our market system works much better with less interference by government.

Really? "I'll eat MORE meat!!!" Nyah, nyah, nyah!!!!

I find that extremely immature. But that's me.

 

[Si modo]

Republicans are totally bought and in the pockets of their donors:


USDA retracts support of 'Meatless Monday' after GOP revolt


07/26/12 09:27 AM ET

The Department of Agriculture (USDA) retracted its endorsement of "Meatless Mondays" after GOP lawmakers blasted the move.

Republicans took to Twitter Wednesday to express their unhappiness with the USDA encouraging people to eat less meat.

I will eat more meat on Monday to compensate for stupid USDA recommendation abt a meatless Monday
— ChuckGrassley (@ChuckGrassley) July 25, 2012
​

USDA HQ meatless Mondays!!! At the Dept. Of Agriculture? Heresy! I'm not grazing there. I will have double rib-eye Mondays instead.
— Steve King (@SteveKingIA) July 25, 2012
​

The USDA lauded Meatless Monday in Monday's internal department newsletter as "one simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at our cafeterias."






The National Cattlemen's Beef Association and several members of Congress representing some of the biggest meat-producing states were quick to protest on Tuesday and Wednesday.

"Who at USDA thought 'Meatless Mondays' was good idea? Anti-[agriculture] agenda at USDA is irresponsible, even for a day," tweeted Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.).
​

What a bunch of fucking children!

I don't find it childish at all. Many find that our market system works much better with less interference by government.

Really? "I'll eat MORE meat!!!" Nyah, nyah, nyah!!!!

I find that extremely immature. But that's me.

Meh, some see what they want to see - confirmation bias is strong.

 

[California Girl]

@ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things.

@ Si Modo - I haven't heard of things like tires or plastic bags containing animal products. I'm still learning but that is not something I've heard before. As for things like toothpaste, shampoo and other similar items, they make vegan ones too. My new vegan hand soap actually smells great. The scent is so nice and it lingers on my hands after I've washed them for quite a while, which I like.

So you would prefer to drive the whole industry, even those who treat their animals well, out of existence? You prefer a world where cows are an 'endangered' species that you can only see in zoos? How strange.

I buy meat - but I only buy from ethical farming. This means I support good farming practice, and I also ensure that the cows at the farm at the end of my lane, live happy lives, and that the farm land stays as farm land instead of being sold off for development. Thanks, but no thanks to your way. Your way will lead to the destruction of animals that I love.

 

[Synthaholic]

I don't find it childish at all. Many find that our market system works much better with less interference by government.

Really? "I'll eat MORE meat!!!" Nyah, nyah, nyah!!!!

I find that extremely immature. But that's me.

Meh, some see what they want to see - confirmation bias is strong.

OK, how do you see it? Do you really believe - or do you think they really believe - that them having two steaks or two cheeseburgers "restores the balance"?

C'mon, si.

 

[Synthaholic]

@ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things.

@ Si Modo - I haven't heard of things like tires or plastic bags containing animal products. I'm still learning but that is not something I've heard before. As for things like toothpaste, shampoo and other similar items, they make vegan ones too. My new vegan hand soap actually smells great. The scent is so nice and it lingers on my hands after I've washed them for quite a while, which I like.

So you would prefer to drive the whole industry, even those who treat their animals well, out of existence? You prefer a world where cows are an 'endangered' species that you can only see in zoos? How strange.

I buy meat - but I only buy from ethical farming. This means I support good farming practice, and I also ensure that the cows at the farm at the end of my lane, live happy lives, and that the farm land stays as farm land instead of being sold off for development. Thanks, but no thanks to your way. Your way will lead to the destruction of animals that I love.

Industries stay in business because they meet a need. If enough people decide they no longer want to buy a product, that industry shrinks and sometimes disappears.

This is the free market that you so-called 'conservatives' claim to revere.

Until it's inconvenient.

 

[VeganMe]

California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.

And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.

It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.

 

[Si modo]

Really? "I'll eat MORE meat!!!" Nyah, nyah, nyah!!!!

I find that extremely immature. But that's me.

Meh, some see what they want to see - confirmation bias is strong.

OK, how do you see it? Do you really believe - or do you think they really believe - that them having two steaks or two cheeseburgers "restores the balance"?

C'mon, si.

I thought I already said what I see - many politicians believe that the least government influence as possible on the market is the best course of action, for many reasons. So, when there IS interference, they make a point, and lo and behold, the USDA drops the interference.

 

[jillian]

California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.

And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.

It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.

^^^^^^^

and this is why vegans are weird....

i find concerning oneself about animals but not humans to be a bit of a disorder.

 

[VeganMe]

jillian - I am concerned for both humans and animals' well-being.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Plants aren't as alive as animals?
You find lots of animals standing around in corn or wheat fields?

 

[Si modo]

California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.

And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.

It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.

^^^^^^^

and this is why vegans are weird....

i find concerning oneself about animals but not humans to be a bit of a disorder.

Yup. Exactly.

And, I find the vegan lifestyle to be rather hypocritical...just like the Amish lifestyle.

But, oh well. If that is their drive in life, who am I to judge having such a non-productive primary motivation? Not my cup of tea, for sure.

 

[Synthaholic]

Meh, some see what they want to see - confirmation bias is strong.

OK, how do you see it? Do you really believe - or do you think they really believe - that them having two steaks or two cheeseburgers "restores the balance"?

C'mon, si.

I thought I already said what I see - many politicians believe that the least government influence as possible on the market is the best course of action, for many reasons. So, when there IS interference, they make a point, and lo and behold, the USDA drops the interference.

But it wasn't interference. It wasn't a rule. It wasn't a new guideline. It wasn't a decree. It wasn't anything like that.

It was a suggestion that they backed.

Didn't you read the link, or did you just make an assumption from the clipped part I posted?

Here, from the hated NY Times:

The message seemed innocuous enough, coming as it did from the federal agency tasked with promoting sustainable agriculture and dietary health: “One simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at our cafeterias,” read a United States Department of Agriculture interoffice newsletter published on its Web site this week, “is to participate in the ‘Meatless Monday’ initiative.”

Thousands of corporate cafeterias, restaurants and schools have embraced the idea of skipping meat on Mondays in favor of vegetarian options, an initiative of the nonprofit Monday Campaign Inc. and the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health.

“How will going meatless one day of the week help the environment?” it asked. “The production of meat, especially beef (and dairy as well), has a large environmental impact. According to the U.N., animal agriculture is a major source of greenhouse gases and climate change. It also wastes resources. It takes 7,000 kg of grain to make 1,000 kg of beef.”​

 

[Synthaholic]

California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.

And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.

It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.

^^^^^^^

and this is why vegans are weird....

i find concerning oneself about animals but not humans to be a bit of a disorder.

I don't see any lack of concern for humans, Jillian. What did I miss?

 

[Si modo]

OK, how do you see it? Do you really believe - or do you think they really believe - that them having two steaks or two cheeseburgers "restores the balance"?

C'mon, si.

I thought I already said what I see - many politicians believe that the least government influence as possible on the market is the best course of action, for many reasons. So, when there IS interference, they make a point, and lo and behold, the USDA drops the interference.

But it wasn't interference. It wasn't a rule. It wasn't a new guideline. It wasn't a decree. It wasn't anything like that.

It was a suggestion that they backed.

Didn't you read the link, or did you just make an assumption from the clipped part I posted?

Here, from the hated NY Times:

The message seemed innocuous enough, coming as it did from the federal agency tasked with promoting sustainable agriculture and dietary health: “One simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at our cafeterias,” read a United States Department of Agriculture interoffice newsletter published on its Web site this week, “is to participate in the ‘Meatless Monday’ initiative.”

Thousands of corporate cafeterias, restaurants and schools have embraced the idea of skipping meat on Mondays in favor of vegetarian options, an initiative of the nonprofit Monday Campaign Inc. and the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health.

“How will going meatless one day of the week help the environment?” it asked. “The production of meat, especially beef (and dairy as well), has a large environmental impact. According to the U.N., animal agriculture is a major source of greenhouse gases and climate change. It also wastes resources. It takes 7,000 kg of grain to make 1,000 kg of beef.”​

I know it was a suggestion. It was a suggestion by the GOVERNMENT that would influence the market.

 

[Synthaholic]

Plants aren't as alive as animals?
You find lots of animals standing around in corn or wheat fields?

So much for a good, adult discussion. The morons are arriving.

 

[Toro]

California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.

And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.

It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.

I worked on a kill floor. The pigs and cows died instantly. They didn't suffer.

 

[Synthaholic]

I thought I already said what I see - many politicians believe that the least government influence as possible on the market is the best course of action, for many reasons. So, when there IS interference, they make a point, and lo and behold, the USDA drops the interference.

But it wasn't interference. It wasn't a rule. It wasn't a new guideline. It wasn't a decree. It wasn't anything like that.

It was a suggestion that they backed.

Didn't you read the link, or did you just make an assumption from the clipped part I posted?

Here, from the hated NY Times:

The message seemed innocuous enough, coming as it did from the federal agency tasked with promoting sustainable agriculture and dietary health: “One simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at our cafeterias,” read a United States Department of Agriculture interoffice newsletter published on its Web site this week, “is to participate in the ‘Meatless Monday’ initiative.”

Thousands of corporate cafeterias, restaurants and schools have embraced the idea of skipping meat on Mondays in favor of vegetarian options, an initiative of the nonprofit Monday Campaign Inc. and the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health.

“How will going meatless one day of the week help the environment?” it asked. “The production of meat, especially beef (and dairy as well), has a large environmental impact. According to the U.N., animal agriculture is a major source of greenhouse gases and climate change. It also wastes resources. It takes 7,000 kg of grain to make 1,000 kg of beef.”​

I know it was a suggestion. It was a suggestion by the GOVERNMENT that would influence the market.

The suggestion by the GOVERNMENT that smoking is bad for you influenced the tobacco market, and now vastly reduced numbers of children do not smoke, and will not develop lung cancer in huge numbers.

Was that bad, too?

How many more examples would you like me to come up with?

 

[JWBooth]

"If you don't eat your meat........you can't have any pudding"

"How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?"