US says Israeli courts determine legality of settlements

[P F Tinmore]

In fact, the Israeli settlements were never illegal.

The old effort to legitimize Palestinian claims to the land with a false historical account erases Jews' right to their ancestral terroritory won in a modern defensive war.


The West Bank city of Ariel.

In reversing the Obama administration’s shameful acceding to the UN Security Council’s 2016 resolution that Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria were illegal under international law, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo finally stated what was obvious to many legal scholars and others who have assessed the facts on the ground; namely, as Pompeo put it, “The establishment of Israeli civilian settlements in the West Bank is not per se inconsistent with international law.” Additionally, as he noted, while the decision “does not prejudice or decide legal conclusions regarding situations in any other parts of the world,” the secretary emphasized that the affirmation of the settlements’ legality “is based on the unique facts, history, and circumstances presented by the establishment of civilian settlements in the West Bank.”

In fact, the Israeli settlements were never illegal

The old effort to legitimize Palestinian claims to the land with a false historical account erases Jews' right to their ancestral terroritory won in a modern defensive war.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war..

The Avalon Project : United Nations Security Council Resolution 242​

Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

I agree, Israel is the only state in the area.

Minus the territory it claims to have won in war.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: US says Israeli courts determine legality of settlements
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This has been repeated like that so many times - people believe it is engraved in stone.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war.

The Avalon Project : United Nations Security Council Resolution 242​

(COMMENT)

Nowhere in the law, does it actually say that? If it did, they would have cited that law at the time of the event.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In fact, the Israeli settlements were never illegal.

The old effort to legitimize Palestinian claims to the land with a false historical account erases Jews' right to their ancestral terroritory won in a modern defensive war.


The West Bank city of Ariel.

In reversing the Obama administration’s shameful acceding to the UN Security Council’s 2016 resolution that Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria were illegal under international law, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo finally stated what was obvious to many legal scholars and others who have assessed the facts on the ground; namely, as Pompeo put it, “The establishment of Israeli civilian settlements in the West Bank is not per se inconsistent with international law.” Additionally, as he noted, while the decision “does not prejudice or decide legal conclusions regarding situations in any other parts of the world,” the secretary emphasized that the affirmation of the settlements’ legality “is based on the unique facts, history, and circumstances presented by the establishment of civilian settlements in the West Bank.”

In fact, the Israeli settlements were never illegal

The old effort to legitimize Palestinian claims to the land with a false historical account erases Jews' right to their ancestral terroritory won in a modern defensive war.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war..

The Avalon Project : United Nations Security Council Resolution 242​

Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

I agree, Israel is the only state in the area.

Minus the territory it claims to have won in war.

They won territory? From what country?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: US says Israeli courts determine legality of settlements
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This has been repeated like that so many times - people believe it is engraved in stone.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war.

The Avalon Project : United Nations Security Council Resolution 242​

(COMMENT)

Nowhere in the law, does it actually say that? If it did, they would have cited that law at the time of the event.


Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, but non aggression and territorial integrity will get you there.

 

[Mindful]

In fact, the Israeli settlements were never illegal.

The old effort to legitimize Palestinian claims to the land with a false historical account erases Jews' right to their ancestral terroritory won in a modern defensive war.


The West Bank city of Ariel.

In reversing the Obama administration’s shameful acceding to the UN Security Council’s 2016 resolution that Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria were illegal under international law, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo finally stated what was obvious to many legal scholars and others who have assessed the facts on the ground; namely, as Pompeo put it, “The establishment of Israeli civilian settlements in the West Bank is not per se inconsistent with international law.” Additionally, as he noted, while the decision “does not prejudice or decide legal conclusions regarding situations in any other parts of the world,” the secretary emphasized that the affirmation of the settlements’ legality “is based on the unique facts, history, and circumstances presented by the establishment of civilian settlements in the West Bank.”

In fact, the Israeli settlements were never illegal

The old effort to legitimize Palestinian claims to the land with a false historical account erases Jews' right to their ancestral terroritory won in a modern defensive war.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war..

The Avalon Project : United Nations Security Council Resolution 242​

Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

I agree, Israel is the only state in the area.

Minus the territory it claims to have won in war.

Are you sure you are compos mentis?

 

[Hollie]

RE: US says Israeli courts determine legality of settlements
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This has been repeated like that so many times - people believe it is engraved in stone.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war.

The Avalon Project : United Nations Security Council Resolution 242​

(COMMENT)

Nowhere in the law, does it actually say that? If it did, they would have cited that law at the time of the event.


Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, but non aggression and territorial integrity will get you there.

Indeed. Why invent laws that you apply to invented countries?

 

[Mindful]

Where is this mythical country he keeps talking about?

At the end of the rainbow?

 

[Hollie]

Where is this mythical country he keeps talking about?

At the end of the rainbow?

It's the "country of Pal'istan" (the place where dreams come true), that was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Always the leftists.

The ones who taught the Arabs to blow their children up...

...for political reasons.

What are you talking about? Are you saying that Jewish leftists taught Arabs to blow up their kids? Link?

You think Arabs thought that up on their own?

imo

Leftist Jews are f'n Kapos who believe in government being greater than G-d.

Find your own links.

You're likely an idumean.

Well, thanks to the Idumean King Herod we now have the Western Wall and the Tomb of the Patriarchs.

Now, I don't know if you're joking about that other issue, but it's a serious charge and one that you should not make lightly. Those suicide bombings were very traumatic. Jewish leftists cannot be blamed for the Arabs' insanity.

 

[Ropey]

As I thought.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

As I thought.

Whatever that's supposed to mean.

 

[Ropey]

As I thought.

Whatever that's supposed to mean.

Midda K'negged Midda

 

[Shusha]

Why is it non Jews are not allowed to create new settlements in Area C? They suffer from the same housing shortage and crowding (worse maybe given the inequity in the permitting process).

I believe your assumptions are incorrect.

There is no prohibition or restrictions on non-Jews from building in Area C. None.

Building permits are granted in roughly equal numbers to Jewish applicants (citizens) and Arab applicants (citizens and non-citizen permanent residents) applicants, as far as can be determined with dedicated research on the matter. Its not readily easy to discern because Israel does not, in fact, keep statistical records on the ethnicity of each applicant. (Because, you know, that would be discriminatory).

Building permits are very, very carefully scrutinized by Israel's Supreme Court to ensure no building occurs on privately-owned land, by both sides.

Israel, did, actually, voluntarily enforce a ten year building freeze on Israeli (Jewish settlements), as a concession toward peace negotiations. (For all the good that did.)

The PA, in contravention of signed treaties with Israel, provides funds for illegal building in Area C. (That is, in territory NOT under its jurisdiction.)

The international community, in contravention of the legal principle of non-intervention in the domestic affairs of States, provides building materials, funding and support for illegal building in Area C. (That is, in territory NOT under its jurisdiction.)

Israel provides funds, infrastructure and security for legal building in Area C. (That is, in territory which IS under its jurisdiction.)

Israel does not interfere with building or any other civil control in Areas A and B and Gaza. (That is, in territory which is NOT under its jurisdiction.)


The ONLY way for anyone to establish that Israel is acting illegally is to provide a legal argument for legal sovereignty or jurisdiction of SOMEONE ELSE over Area C. And the only one who has ever tried is Tinmore (and his argument is so ridiculous....well...I can't.)





(Sidenote, you can argue that there is an element of discrimination here, on both sides. But don't bother, because I AGREE with you. That is not the question on this thread though.)

There is no prohibition or restrictions on non-Jews from building in Area C. None.

Yep. A perfect example of how the PA and international communities illegally build in areas outside their jurisdiction in contravention of treaties and the principle of non-intervention.

No information AT ALL about prohibitions of non-Jews on building.

Try again.

What can be illegal about Palestinians building in Palestine?

What a ridiculous claim. What can be illegal about Canadians building in Canada? Well, lots of things. Land use, zoning, building permits, building inspections, environmental concerns. The list goes on.

There are no prohibitions of non-Jews on building anywhere in Israel or Area C, which is under Israel's jurisdiction. Your silly videos and one-liners don't demonstrate that there is.

 

[Shusha]

RE: US says Israeli courts determine legality of settlements
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement (Oslo II, 1995)
• Interactive Database - In the Heading:

In Area A, which included the major Palestinian cities (with the exception of Hebron), Palestinians were to be given full civil and security control. In Area B, which included Palestinian rural settlements, Palestinians were given civil and security responsibilities, with Israel retaining an “overriding responsibility” for the security of Israelis and counter-terrorism efforts. Area C, which included Israeli settlements and most vacant territory, was to remain under full Israeli control. The agreement also established measures for a democratically-elected Palestinian Council.

What can be illegal about Palestinians building in Palestine?

(COMMENT)

The Israelis have full-Control over Area C. The Israelis decide what can be built where...


Most Respectfully,
R

The Israelis have full-Control over Area C. The Israelis decide what can be built where...

That does not mean that they can violate international law.

What international law are they violating in Area C?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: US says Israeli courts determine legality of settlements
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This could apply to some circumstances; or any controversial situations.

Indeed, but nonaggression and territorial integrity will get you there.

(COMMENT)

The Charter protections on the matters of aggression and territorial integrity really do not apply to the territories:

◈ Since the Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979).

◈ Since the The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994).​

As you are so proud to point out to me (often), the Arab Palestinians were not a party to the conflict [either an International Armed Conflict (IAC) or a Non-International Armed Conflict (NAIC)] involved. The Israels assumed control of the West Bank and Jerusalem from the control of Jordan. The Israels assumed control of the Gaza Strip from Egypt. As you can see, Israel has a permanent peace treaty with both Jordan and Egypt.

The Armistice and the demarcations along with them were nullified by the permanent peaceful settlement between the Parties, and the new international boundary between the parties delimited. In NO CASE were the Arab Palestinians a victim of Israeli acts of aggression in which territory under Arab Palestinian sovereign control was overtaken by Israel.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

In fact, the Israeli settlements were never illegal.

The old effort to legitimize Palestinian claims to the land with a false historical account erases Jews' right to their ancestral terroritory won in a modern defensive war.


The West Bank city of Ariel.

In reversing the Obama administration’s shameful acceding to the UN Security Council’s 2016 resolution that Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria were illegal under international law, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo finally stated what was obvious to many legal scholars and others who have assessed the facts on the ground; namely, as Pompeo put it, “The establishment of Israeli civilian settlements in the West Bank is not per se inconsistent with international law.” Additionally, as he noted, while the decision “does not prejudice or decide legal conclusions regarding situations in any other parts of the world,” the secretary emphasized that the affirmation of the settlements’ legality “is based on the unique facts, history, and circumstances presented by the establishment of civilian settlements in the West Bank.”

In fact, the Israeli settlements were never illegal

The old effort to legitimize Palestinian claims to the land with a false historical account erases Jews' right to their ancestral terroritory won in a modern defensive war.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war..

The Avalon Project : United Nations Security Council Resolution 242​

Let's not get distracted by this. Israel's claim to sovereignty over Judea and Samaria has nothing at all to do with defensive wars or territories "gained" through them. This is a false red herring which leads to incorrect assumptions about the meaning of armistice lines and other artificial boundaries, none of which exist anymore as they were dissolved in the peace treaty when Jordan unilaterally abandoned all claims to any territory in Western Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why is it non Jews are not allowed to create new settlements in Area C? They suffer from the same housing shortage and crowding (worse maybe given the inequity in the permitting process).

I believe your assumptions are incorrect.

There is no prohibition or restrictions on non-Jews from building in Area C. None.

Building permits are granted in roughly equal numbers to Jewish applicants (citizens) and Arab applicants (citizens and non-citizen permanent residents) applicants, as far as can be determined with dedicated research on the matter. Its not readily easy to discern because Israel does not, in fact, keep statistical records on the ethnicity of each applicant. (Because, you know, that would be discriminatory).

Building permits are very, very carefully scrutinized by Israel's Supreme Court to ensure no building occurs on privately-owned land, by both sides.

Israel, did, actually, voluntarily enforce a ten year building freeze on Israeli (Jewish settlements), as a concession toward peace negotiations. (For all the good that did.)

The PA, in contravention of signed treaties with Israel, provides funds for illegal building in Area C. (That is, in territory NOT under its jurisdiction.)

The international community, in contravention of the legal principle of non-intervention in the domestic affairs of States, provides building materials, funding and support for illegal building in Area C. (That is, in territory NOT under its jurisdiction.)

Israel provides funds, infrastructure and security for legal building in Area C. (That is, in territory which IS under its jurisdiction.)

Israel does not interfere with building or any other civil control in Areas A and B and Gaza. (That is, in territory which is NOT under its jurisdiction.)


The ONLY way for anyone to establish that Israel is acting illegally is to provide a legal argument for legal sovereignty or jurisdiction of SOMEONE ELSE over Area C. And the only one who has ever tried is Tinmore (and his argument is so ridiculous....well...I can't.)





(Sidenote, you can argue that there is an element of discrimination here, on both sides. But don't bother, because I AGREE with you. That is not the question on this thread though.)

There is no prohibition or restrictions on non-Jews from building in Area C. None.

Yep. A perfect example of how the PA and international communities illegally build in areas outside their jurisdiction in contravention of treaties and the principle of non-intervention.

No information AT ALL about prohibitions of non-Jews on building.

Try again.

What can be illegal about Palestinians building in Palestine?

What a ridiculous claim. What can be illegal about Canadians building in Canada? Well, lots of things. Land use, zoning, building permits, building inspections, environmental concerns. The list goes on.

There are no prohibitions of non-Jews on building anywhere in Israel or Area C, which is under Israel's jurisdiction. Your silly videos and one-liners don't demonstrate that there is.

Deflection.

 

[Mindful]

I believe your assumptions are incorrect.

There is no prohibition or restrictions on non-Jews from building in Area C. None.

Building permits are granted in roughly equal numbers to Jewish applicants (citizens) and Arab applicants (citizens and non-citizen permanent residents) applicants, as far as can be determined with dedicated research on the matter. Its not readily easy to discern because Israel does not, in fact, keep statistical records on the ethnicity of each applicant. (Because, you know, that would be discriminatory).

Building permits are very, very carefully scrutinized by Israel's Supreme Court to ensure no building occurs on privately-owned land, by both sides.

Israel, did, actually, voluntarily enforce a ten year building freeze on Israeli (Jewish settlements), as a concession toward peace negotiations. (For all the good that did.)

The PA, in contravention of signed treaties with Israel, provides funds for illegal building in Area C. (That is, in territory NOT under its jurisdiction.)

The international community, in contravention of the legal principle of non-intervention in the domestic affairs of States, provides building materials, funding and support for illegal building in Area C. (That is, in territory NOT under its jurisdiction.)

Israel provides funds, infrastructure and security for legal building in Area C. (That is, in territory which IS under its jurisdiction.)

Israel does not interfere with building or any other civil control in Areas A and B and Gaza. (That is, in territory which is NOT under its jurisdiction.)


The ONLY way for anyone to establish that Israel is acting illegally is to provide a legal argument for legal sovereignty or jurisdiction of SOMEONE ELSE over Area C. And the only one who has ever tried is Tinmore (and his argument is so ridiculous....well...I can't.)





(Sidenote, you can argue that there is an element of discrimination here, on both sides. But don't bother, because I AGREE with you. That is not the question on this thread though.)

There is no prohibition or restrictions on non-Jews from building in Area C. None.

Yep. A perfect example of how the PA and international communities illegally build in areas outside their jurisdiction in contravention of treaties and the principle of non-intervention.

No information AT ALL about prohibitions of non-Jews on building.

Try again.

What can be illegal about Palestinians building in Palestine?

What a ridiculous claim. What can be illegal about Canadians building in Canada? Well, lots of things. Land use, zoning, building permits, building inspections, environmental concerns. The list goes on.

There are no prohibitions of non-Jews on building anywhere in Israel or Area C, which is under Israel's jurisdiction. Your silly videos and one-liners don't demonstrate that there is.

Deflection.

No it isn't.

 

[P F Tinmore]

In fact, the Israeli settlements were never illegal.

The old effort to legitimize Palestinian claims to the land with a false historical account erases Jews' right to their ancestral terroritory won in a modern defensive war.


The West Bank city of Ariel.

In reversing the Obama administration’s shameful acceding to the UN Security Council’s 2016 resolution that Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria were illegal under international law, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo finally stated what was obvious to many legal scholars and others who have assessed the facts on the ground; namely, as Pompeo put it, “The establishment of Israeli civilian settlements in the West Bank is not per se inconsistent with international law.” Additionally, as he noted, while the decision “does not prejudice or decide legal conclusions regarding situations in any other parts of the world,” the secretary emphasized that the affirmation of the settlements’ legality “is based on the unique facts, history, and circumstances presented by the establishment of civilian settlements in the West Bank.”

In fact, the Israeli settlements were never illegal

The old effort to legitimize Palestinian claims to the land with a false historical account erases Jews' right to their ancestral terroritory won in a modern defensive war.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war..

The Avalon Project : United Nations Security Council Resolution 242​

Let's not get distracted by this. Israel's claim to sovereignty over Judea and Samaria has nothing at all to do with defensive wars or territories "gained" through them. This is a false red herring which leads to incorrect assumptions about the meaning of armistice lines and other artificial boundaries, none of which exist anymore as they were dissolved in the peace treaty when Jordan unilaterally abandoned all claims to any territory in Western Palestine.

Jordan never had any legitimate claim on the West Bank. It was occupied Palestinian territory.

 

[Mindful]

In fact, the Israeli settlements were never illegal.

The old effort to legitimize Palestinian claims to the land with a false historical account erases Jews' right to their ancestral terroritory won in a modern defensive war.


The West Bank city of Ariel.

In reversing the Obama administration’s shameful acceding to the UN Security Council’s 2016 resolution that Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria were illegal under international law, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo finally stated what was obvious to many legal scholars and others who have assessed the facts on the ground; namely, as Pompeo put it, “The establishment of Israeli civilian settlements in the West Bank is not per se inconsistent with international law.” Additionally, as he noted, while the decision “does not prejudice or decide legal conclusions regarding situations in any other parts of the world,” the secretary emphasized that the affirmation of the settlements’ legality “is based on the unique facts, history, and circumstances presented by the establishment of civilian settlements in the West Bank.”

In fact, the Israeli settlements were never illegal

The old effort to legitimize Palestinian claims to the land with a false historical account erases Jews' right to their ancestral terroritory won in a modern defensive war.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war..

The Avalon Project : United Nations Security Council Resolution 242​

Let's not get distracted by this. Israel's claim to sovereignty over Judea and Samaria has nothing at all to do with defensive wars or territories "gained" through them. This is a false red herring which leads to incorrect assumptions about the meaning of armistice lines and other artificial boundaries, none of which exist anymore as they were dissolved in the peace treaty when Jordan unilaterally abandoned all claims to any territory in Western Palestine.

Jordan never had any legitimate claim on the West Bank. It was occupied Palestinian territory.

Give it up. It's getting tedious.