US Democrats are to the Left of Communists

[Dragon]

maybe RINO Republicans don't believe in a republic.....but tea party republicans support the Constitution....

Tea Party Republicans are led around by the nose by establishment Republicans. That's what happens when you don't develop the ability to think logically and independently.

economic egalitarianism may lead to a logical conclusion they are no longer "communist"...but this is a false assumption...unless we are strictly looking at economics....communism is more than just economics....it is also social and political...

"economic egalitarianism" in Red China today certainly does not equate to any decentralization of power...Party control is still strong....the totalitarian single-party communist State lives on....Lenin would be proud...

You are right that Communism is more than economic egalitarianism, but wrong that this aspect of it is not necessary. Not every totalitarian system is Communist. Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, for example, were not Communist.

China has become a capitalist autocracy. It is certainly still non-democratic, but it is not Communist anymore.

 

[Flopper]

The Chinese today are no more Communists, than Republicans are believers in a republic.

what a dipshit ignoraemous comment......the Commies still rule Red China with an iron fist......and they not losing their grip in the slightest....although it may appear that way to ignorant libs who like to gush over communists who adopt a market mentality...

The politburo today allows private enterprise because the old style of state-run business was a complete flop...take heed Dimwits....going toward a free market has yielded great economic success in China and there is a growing middle class that is reaping the benefits.....but their freedom is still very limited politically......

the Communist Party centrally controls everything from the internet to the military, from the courts to government and educational appointments, and they also place loyal Party members into all key positions in every significant economic and social organization (religion is limited) that exists....that includes those "free market" companies.....

you are allowed to make your moolah and buy your goodies....however don't cross the Party in Red China......labor camps still exist.....

....how quickly liberals forget Tiananmen Square....

Who would have believed 25 years ago, that the Chinese communist would ever be embracing capitalism.

 

[Chris]

The Democratic Party has become the Republican Party, and the Republican Party has become the Tea Party.

 

[bobcollum]

and the way chinese treat their women is definately closer to republicans.......

"Their women"? We are not property. That you use that phrase demonstrates what a misogynistic little shit you are.

A bit of a reach.

 

[jillian]

Cool...another psycho thread from Frankie

 

[ScreamingEagle]

maybe RINO Republicans don't believe in a republic.....but tea party republicans support the Constitution....

Tea Party Republicans are led around by the nose by establishment Republicans. That's what happens when you don't develop the ability to think logically and independently.

economic egalitarianism may lead to a logical conclusion they are no longer "communist"...but this is a false assumption...unless we are strictly looking at economics....communism is more than just economics....it is also social and political...

"economic egalitarianism" in Red China today certainly does not equate to any decentralization of power...Party control is still strong....the totalitarian single-party communist State lives on....Lenin would be proud...

You are right that Communism is more than economic egalitarianism, but wrong that this aspect of it is not necessary. Not every totalitarian system is Communist. Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, for example, were not Communist.

China has become a capitalist autocracy. It is certainly still non-democratic, but it is not Communist anymore.

No....China is not an autocracy...

"Autocracy means one man possesses unlimited power and citizens have no rights. Communism is when the Government has unlimited rule. Different from oligarchy where a small group has power. In communism, the government has power and someone can tell the head of state if he can do something or not."
Are autocracy and communism the same thing


And China today is still Communist....
From Richard McGregor's article "5 Myths About the Chinese Communist Party"...

1. "China Is Communist in Name Only."

"Wrong. If Vladimir Lenin were reincarnated in 21st-century Beijing and managed to avert his eyes from the city's glittering skyscrapers and conspicuous consumption, he would instantly recognize in the ruling Chinese Communist Party a replica of the system he designed nearly a century ago for the victors of the Bolshevik Revolution. One need only look at the party's structure to see how communist -- and Leninist -- China's political system remains.

Sure, China long ago dumped the core of the communist economic system, replacing rigid central planning with commercially minded state enterprises that coexist with a vigorous private sector. Yet for all their liberalization of the economy, Chinese leaders have been careful to keep control of the commanding heights of politics through the party's grip on the "three Ps": personnel, propaganda, and the People's Liberation Army. "
...
"Indeed, if you benchmark the Chinese Communist Party against a definitional checklist authored by Robert Service, the veteran historian of the Soviet Union, the similarities are remarkable. As with communism in its heyday elsewhere, the party in China has eradicated or emasculated political rivals, eliminated the autonomy of the courts and media, restricted religion and civil society, denigrated rival versions of nationhood, centralized political power, established extensive networks of security police, and dispatched dissidents to labor camps. There is a good reason why the Chinese system is often described as "market-Leninism." "

5 Myths About the Chinese Communist Party - By Richard McGregor | Foreign Policy

 

[paulitician]

People who actually lived in oppressive Communist countries truly despise our U.S. Democrats. The Democrats never cared about them and their plights. They know more than anyone that Communism just doesn't work. They were there,they lived it. The American Left is lost these days.

 

[Dragon]

No....China is not an autocracy..."Autocracy means one man possesses unlimited power and citizens have no rights

This is correct. China is not an "autocracy" and I misspoke. It is an authoritarian oligarchy, rather.

Communism is when the Government has unlimited rule.

This, however, is NOT correct. The government having unlimited rule is totalitarianism. Nazi Germany was a totalitarian state. Nazi Germany was not Communist.

If Vladimir Lenin were reincarnated in 21st-century Beijing and managed to avert his eyes from the city's glittering skyscrapers and conspicuous consumption, he would instantly recognize in the ruling Chinese Communist Party a replica of the system he designed nearly a century ago for the victors of the Bolshevik Revolution. One need only look at the party's structure to see how communist -- and Leninist -- China's political system remains.

Sure, China long ago dumped the core of the communist economic system, replacing rigid central planning with commercially minded state enterprises that coexist with a vigorous private sector. Yet for all their liberalization of the economy, Chinese leaders have been careful to keep control of the commanding heights of politics through the party's grip on the "three Ps": personnel, propaganda, and the People's Liberation Army.

If China has "dumped the core of the Communist economic system," that means China IS NOT COMMUNIST. You cannot have a Communist country without a socialist economy; that's absurd. You can have an authoritarian, undemocratic state in which there are no real election, no free press, no personal liberty, etc. but it will NOT be Communist.

Communism and totalitarianism are not synonyms.

 

[Chris]

People who actually lived in oppressive Communist countries truly despise our U.S. Democrats. The Democrats never cared about them and their plights. They know more than anyone that Communism just doesn't work. They were there,they lived it. The American Left is lost these days.

I have a doctor friend who escaped from Romania when it was communist.

He is a hard core Democrat.

He saw what facism did to his country, so he recognizes it in the Republican Party.

 

[editec]

US Democrats are to the Left of Communists

Still hung up on the partisan narrative, Drag?

I am confident that eventually you'll understand that you have been the victim of decades of two party propaganda.

When was the last time you heard of communists bailing out the richest people on earth?

Do communist LOVE bankers?

Is that what you understand about communists?

That they love and work fon behalf of BANSTERS???!!

Seriously?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hows that working out for us?

Impossible to say until we actually try it. It worked out very well in the post-WWII decades. Moving to the right economically has brought us where we are now. So there's good precedent.

to the right?

Did you read the article? The Vietnamese are to the right of us economically!

 

[Dragon]

to the right?

Did you read the article? The Vietnamese are to the right of us economically!

What does that have to do with anything? The Vietnamese aren't Communists anymore, either.

We are now, in terms of government economic policy, well to the right of where we were in the 1940s-1970s. And the economy is in the crapper for that reason.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

US Democrats are to the Left of Communists

Still hung up on the partisan narrative, Drag?

I am confident that eventually you'll understand that you have been the victim of decades of two party propaganda.

When was the last time you heard of communists bailing out the richest people on earth?

Do communist LOVE bankers?

Is that what you understand about communists?

That they love and work fon behalf of BANSTERS???!!

Seriously?

Yes hating banks is very American and pro free enterprise

 

[JakeStarkey]

The ChiComs recently pilloried Democrats older brothers in economic faith, the European socialists for being lazy, indolent, unproductive slugs; and they were right.

In an article on Cargill, even the Vietnamese are turning away from the American Democrat economic model with phenomenal results!

"Cargill was one of the first U.S. multinationals to return to Vietnam when President Bill Clinton normalized relations with the government in Hanoi in 1995. Today it is the country's largest domestic producer of livestock feed and a central player in Vietnam's fast-moving shift from a state-controlled agricultural economy to one where small farmers are encouraged to work private plots for private gain. The effect of that shift has been transformative. Not long ago, Vietnam was importing a million tons of rice a year. Last year it became the world's second leading rice exporter. "Same people, same land," Vietnam's director of crop production, Dr. Nguyen Tri Ngoc, told me in his Hanoi office, speaking through a translator. "Before, farmers were not really farmers. They were workers in the fields, and they worked under the supervision of the government." And the difference now? "Free markets!" he says in English."

Cargill: Inside the quiet giant that rules the food business - Oct. 27, 2011

American Democrats are to the Left of Chinese and Vietnamese Communists, then you wonder why they keep saying there is no such thing as a "Far Left"? It's because you can't get any further Left than an American Democrat. Not even Communists believe in the Democrat economic model any more

These comments, and others like them, are why the other 90% of America is having problems with the Hard Right and the extremes of some members of the Tea Party.

Real Americans know such comments are untrue, and they wonder about the sanity of the folks who make them.

CrusaderFrank and others like him are contributing to the coming debacle as the GOP will be returned to the minority. It will remain there until the CFs are purged from the party. The rest of America will simply not tolerate Hard Righty wackoism.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

to the right?

Did you read the article? The Vietnamese are to the right of us economically!

What does that have to do with anything? The Vietnamese aren't Communists anymore, either.

We are now, in terms of government economic policy, well to the right of where we were in the 1940s-1970s. And the economy is in the crapper for that reason.

In terms of state control we are European socialist and our educational system is Marxist dictatorship

 

[Dragon]

In terms of state control we are European socialist and our educational system is Marxist dictatorship

Absolute bollox. We are much further away from "European socialist" than we were in the 1960s. Our top marginal tax rate has gone from 91% down to 35%. We've turned from staunch government support for labor unions to government giving wrist-slaps to companies using illegal methods of union suppression. We've repealed the important financial regulations that were designed to prevent what happened in 2008 -- which is, of course, why that DID happen in 2008.

You trying to say we should go even further down that road by comparing us to the Chinese or Vietnamese on the grounds that they used to be Communist is nothing but a verbal shell game.

 

[rdean]

US Republicans are to the right of "batshit crazy". I don't even have to go into detail. Everyone already knows.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The ChiComs recently pilloried Democrats older brothers in economic faith, the European socialists for being lazy, indolent, unproductive slugs; and they were right.

In an article on Cargill, even the Vietnamese are turning away from the American Democrat economic model with phenomenal results!

"Cargill was one of the first U.S. multinationals to return to Vietnam when President Bill Clinton normalized relations with the government in Hanoi in 1995. Today it is the country's largest domestic producer of livestock feed and a central player in Vietnam's fast-moving shift from a state-controlled agricultural economy to one where small farmers are encouraged to work private plots for private gain. The effect of that shift has been transformative. Not long ago, Vietnam was importing a million tons of rice a year. Last year it became the world's second leading rice exporter. "Same people, same land," Vietnam's director of crop production, Dr. Nguyen Tri Ngoc, told me in his Hanoi office, speaking through a translator. "Before, farmers were not really farmers. They were workers in the fields, and they worked under the supervision of the government." And the difference now? "Free markets!" he says in English."

Cargill: Inside the quiet giant that rules the food business - Oct. 27, 2011

American Democrats are to the Left of Chinese and Vietnamese Communists, then you wonder why they keep saying there is no such thing as a "Far Left"? It's because you can't get any further Left than an American Democrat. Not even Communists believe in the Democrat economic model any more

These comments, and others like them, are why the other 90% of America is having problems with the Hard Right and the extremes of some members of the Tea Party.

Real Americans know such comments are untrue, and they wonder about the sanity of the folks who make them.

CrusaderFrank and others like him are contributing to the coming debacle as the GOP will be returned to the minority. It will remain there until the CFs are purged from the party. The rest of America will simply not tolerate Hard Righty wackoism.

We know heart and soul that Socialism is the kiss of economic death. We see it in the USA, in Europe and we see it how former Communist nations flee in horror from it. Those that have embraced free markets like China and Vietnam soar, those that beg for the hand of government around their throat like Democrats and North Koreans continue to suffer.

Find a grown up to read you the 4 paragraphs on Vietnam in the linked article

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"Cargill was one of the first U.S. multinationals to return to Vietnam when President Bill Clinton normalized relations with the government in Hanoi in 1995. Today it is the country's largest domestic producer of livestock feed and a central player in Vietnam's fast-moving shift from a state-controlled agricultural economy to one where small farmers are encouraged to work private plots for private gain. The effect of that shift has been transformative. Not long ago, Vietnam was importing a million tons of rice a year. Last year it became the world's second leading rice exporter. "Same people, same land," Vietnam's director of crop production, Dr. Nguyen Tri Ngoc, told me in his Hanoi office, speaking through a translator. "Before, farmers were not really farmers. They were workers in the fields, and they worked under the supervision of the government." And the difference now? "Free markets!" he says in English.

In 2004, Cargill launched a public-private partnership with one of its biggest customers, chocolate giant Mars, and the governments of Vietnam and the Netherlands. The aim: to create something that had never before existed in Vietnam, a cocoa-export economy. First, Cargill had to convince a front line of growers to switch to cocoa from well-established crops like coffee, black pepper, and cashews. Two years before the first harvest (it takes at least that long for cocoa seedlings to produce fruit), before there was anything to buy, Cargill opened two fully staffed cocoa buying stations on major roads, in Ben Tre and Dak Lak provinces. It made an early commitment to transparency, posting on the Cargill website and offering by text message both the daily international price on the London market and what Cargill is paying locally; growers can lock their price for three weeks, the time it takes to ferment and dry the beans after harvest. Cargill also built a network of more than 100 demonstration farms, where curious growers can learn from their neighbors. And in February 2011 the company took delivery of the first Vietnamese cocoa beans to carry UTZ certification -- an independent sustainability program through which growers can earn an extra $100 per ton.
This year Vietnamese farmers will produce about 2,500 metric tons of cocoa, 70% of which will go to Cargill. That's a tiny sliver of the 3.4 million-ton global market, but the growth trend is impressive: 40,000 acres under cultivation in 2010, compared with 1,200 in 2003, and already 32,000 active growers in 12 provinces. Poelma sees the potential for 100,000 tons by 2020. Instead of shipping all of that to Cargill's North Sea Canal processing plant in Wormer, the Netherlands -- a voyage that takes 24 days -- Cargill hopes to have a Cargill factory in Vietnam by then, processing cocoa liquor, cocoa butter, and cocoa powder for export to growing markets in China and India.

None of that happens without the eager participation of thousands of small growers. One I met last summer was Trinh Van Thanh, a smooth-cheeked 43-year-old with a wife, three daughters, and roughly four acres of land in Baria-Vungtau province, a two-hour drive southeast from Ho Chi Minh City. Five years ago Thanh was growing pepper and coffee and raising pigs, and he was struggling. His pepper trees were afflicted by blight. The yield from his mature coffee trees was declining year by year. He says he was $5,000 in debt.

Thanh planted his first cocoa saplings, as Vietnamese farmers often do, in the shade of his coffee trees. He enrolled in an agricultural extension program in Ho Chi Minh City, where he learned how to build a specialized slow-drip irrigation system based on technology invented on an Israeli kibbutz. When the first crop came in, Thanh made the ambitious choice to ferment and dry the cocoa beans himself. Ultimately, he built more fermentation boxes and drying tables than he needed for his own crop, which meant he could perform those value-adding services for other growers. Soon he wasn't just farming, he was running a collection station. Next he planted a cocoa-tree nursery. Then he launched an irrigation consulting business. (The man gets the concept of a virtuous cycle.) Thanh still sells all his beans to Cargill but maybe not for long. What he really wants to learn how to do next, he told me, is make and sell chocolate.
Thanh's success so far almost defies belief. He says his mini cocoa conglomerate will gross more than $850,000 this year. And if his daughter, who's about to graduate from high school, wants to go to college in America -- and he hopes that she will -- he can easily afford it.

Later in Hanoi, I tell Ngoc all about my visit to Baria-Vungtau province. When does a farmer like Thanh, I ask him, become too much of a capitalist for the Socialist Republic of Vietnam? Ngoc beams. "No limit!" he says. Again in English."

Read it and weep.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

US Republicans are to the right of "batshit crazy". I don't even have to go into detail. Everyone already knows.

For a while I thought you had me on ignore.