Zone1 Unbelievers cannot believe until God permits them to do so

[Libby von H]

I am discounting nothing. Speaking of naive, you thinking I am more unfamiliar with the conscious and sub-conscience than you are is the very definition of naive.

agreed...your interlocutor doesn't see that talking about the unconscious and deterministic cultures and inability to divine true from false can only mean two things
1) Interlocutor has miraculously escaped all that yet can detect it in everybody else.
2) Interlocutor excuses all his hates, biases and ignorance as only the few things he has yet to uncover that make him perfectly transparent in mind and will.

This is part of "sociology of knowledge" an esoteric discipline if ever there was.
Everybody is histocially conditioned EXCEPT the guy that tells you everything is historically conditioned

 

[Meriweather]

agreed...your interlocutor doesn't see that talking about the unconscious and deterministic cultures and inability to divine true from false can only mean two things
1) Interlocutor has miraculously escaped all that yet can detect it in everybody else.
2) Interlocutor excuses all his hates, biases and ignorance as only the few things he has yet to uncover that make him perfectly transparent in mind and will.

This is part of "sociology of knowledge" an esoteric discipline if ever there was.
Everybody is histocially conditioned EXCEPT the guy that tells you everything is historically conditioned

Well put.

 

[Blues Man]

I am guessing you are talking about yourself. And I am guessing that you believe that what affected you affects everyone else the same way. How many brothers, sisters, cousins, friends did you have growing up? Because I am getting the impression you were an only child.

None of this has any bearing on whether I had brothers sisters or cousins.

 

[Blues Man]

It was very much a choice. Eight children raised in a Catholic family. Two chose to explore faith and belief, six chose not to. Just as there are numerous branches of science one can study, the same is true of religion and faith. My parents, brother, and I focused on four different branches. (The vine of belief/faith has many branches.) My own daughters have their individual branches as well.

It's kind of like teaching...Great-grandfather, Father, and I all chose to teach--and all of us chose differently in that as well. One brother tried teaching and decided it wasn't for him--and chose a different career.

So all of you worked consciously with 100% attention and focus collecting all the data your brain processes with intention step by step weighing all the pros and cons of every single decision you have ever made right?

That's not the way the brain works.

 

[Woodznutz]

The spirit in man (the human spirit) makes the decisions, then uses the brain to make it all work out. The Holy Spirit witnesses with the spirit in man, which uses the brain to work it all out. It's all very complicated.

 

[Meriweather]

The fact is

The fact is, you haven't a clue as to my upbringing. I am guessing you are projecting your own upbringing onto others. I don't think you understand how odd your own conclusions, projected onto others, seem.

 

[Meriweather]

None of this has any bearing on whether I had brothers sisters or cousins.

I am guessing that you must have a very narrow experience when it comes to the upbringing in large families. The "My experience and conclusions must be the experience of all others, and therefore, eventually everyone will arrive at the same conclusions" is present in your posts.

 

[Meriweather]

right?

Wrong. Why, is that the way you thought for many years?

 

[Blues Man]

The fact is, you haven't a clue as to my upbringing. I am guessing you are projecting your own upbringing onto others. I don't think you understand how odd your own conclusions, projected onto others, seem.

And none of that has anything to do with how the brain works.

and why are yo guessing about anything. If you want to know anything about you can ask and I will either answer you or I won't.

And why do you feel the need to pick a single word out of a post and ask a question with absolutely no context to it?

 

[Meriweather]

And why do you feel the need to pick a single word out of a post and ask a question with absolutely no context to it?

You don't listen. You are convinced you already know why people have faith and believe in God. When people try to share with you why they have faith and believe in God, what we get in return is....

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! YOU ONLY BELIEVE IN GOD BECAUSE THE BRAIN DOES THIS, YOUR UPBRINGING DOES THAT AND YOU ARE OBLIVIOUS TO WHAT YOUR BRAIN IS DOING!!!!!!

You are deaf to actual experiences of other people. You are totally convinced you know. You think you are the only one who has studied the brain, the subconscious, etc. Not only that you apparently have studied so little about it, you actually think all brain specialists have arrived at the same conclusions you have. Not only that, you seem to think everyone's brain and thought processes are exactly like yours--and their faith/religious experiences were exactly like yours.

 

[Blues Man]

You don't listen. You are convinced you already know why people have faith and believe in God. When people try to share with you why they have faith and believe in God, what we get in return is....

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! YOU ONLY BELIEVE IN GOD BECAUSE THE BRAIN DOES THIS, YOUR UPBRINGING DOES THAT AND YOU ARE OBLIVIOUS TO WHAT YOUR BRAIN IS DOING!!!!!!

You are deaf to actual experiences of other people. You are totally convinced you know. You think you are the only one who has studied the brain, the subconscious, etc. Not only that you apparently have studied so little about it, you actually think all brain specialists have arrived at the same conclusions you have. Not only that, you seem to think everyone's brain and thought processes are exactly like yours--and their faith/religious experiences were exactly like yours.

I though we were talking about how people make decisions and the murkiness of free will.

And what I said applies to every "conscious" decision anyone makes on just about anything and yes that includes religion.

 

[badger2]

It's not for us to judge them. For reasons only known to God, not everyone is yet permitted to believe in and follow him. No amount of evangelizing will bring them to God. We can plant seeds but it's up to God to let them believe. So, stop banging your head against the wall. Share the word and accept that some are not yet ready to believe it. Don't be arrogant about it. Instead, be happy knowing that you have been blessed.

John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father"

John 6:44-45​

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me.​

​

Romans 11:25
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

This is as absurd as G. appointing Adam to name the animals when G. had already named them when creating them, and knew what would happen to each, setting Adam up for future blackmail and extortion.

 

[1miseryindex]

Religion, when seen as a mixture of God and science, is kind of like oil and vinegar. It may be a great taste combination, but the two do not mix well. A mix of God and philosophy does better. What is your philosophy when it comes to living?

Catholicism has never defied science. It's been accused of it, but you know how that goes: Guess who is called "the accuser of the brethren"?

I have never seen a contradiction btwn Catholic teaching and science. I say Catholicism is the science of God.

 

[1miseryindex]

And you you won't admit that some of your choices are guided by conditioning you were never aware of.

When one is conditioned by Christ Himself, through the auspices of HIS Church, it is an excellent thing.

 

[Blues Man]

When one is conditioned by Christ Himself, through the auspices of HIS Church, it is an excellent thing.

You are conditioned by society

 

[ding]

You are conditioned by society

I don't think you should be projecting your experiences onto others.

 

[ding]

This is as absurd as G. appointing Adam to name the animals when G. had already named them when creating them, and knew what would happen to each, setting Adam up for future blackmail and extortion.

I think you are being outsmarted by your own cleverness.

 

[Blues Man]

I don't think you should be projecting your experiences onto others.

If you were raised in any society you have been conditioned by it unconsciously.

 

[ding]

If you were raised in any society you have been conditioned by it unconsciously.

Again... I don't think you should be projecting your experiences onto others.

 

[Blues Man]

Again... I don't think you should be projecting your experiences onto others.

So you were not raised in a society by parents?

Were you raised by wolves?