UK Muslims Sound the Alarm!

[xen]

The US is represented by our government; which, is currently controlled by conservatives; who, are our leaders -- you know -- us bloodthirsty, murderous and torturous folk?

Actually WE are the government in this country, the 'leaders' you speak of ONLY represent us.

 

[xen]

xen..........are you talking about "dissent"? If so, where have you heard that "dissent" is the highest form of patriotism? On DU?

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I feel that protecting the right to dissent is the highest form of patriotism and that it is a freedom that should not be taken lightly or abused. And, it's not patriotic to dissent just for the sake of dissention. Make it worth your while and dissent in the proper fashion.......so people can really "hear" you rather than tuning you out.

Thanks for all three of you pointing out my spelling error!

Thomas Jefferson, the AUTHOR of our Declaration of Independence says that "dissent is highest form of patriotism."

Jefferson IS actually my leader. Sorry if that is wrong or insane because he is long gone...but I am still being taught by him and many other past leaders.

 

[kurtsprincess]

Thanks for all three of you pointing out my spelling error!

Thomas Jefferson, the AUTHOR of our Declaration of Independence says that "dissent is highest form of patriotism."

Really? Hummmmmmmmmm

Perhaps you haven't seen this.

Misattributed: 'Dissent Is the Highest Form of Patriotism'
Urban Legends and Folklore Blog


February 15, 2005
Misattributed: 'Dissent Is the Highest Form of Patriotism'
Google the phrase "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" along with the name "Thomas Jefferson" and you will find thousands of Web pages attributing the sentiment to the third president of the United States. The trouble is, says reader Dave Forsmark, who has been waging a one-man campaign to correct what he believes to be a blatant misattribution, "the quote is about two years old, not 200. It was made by [historian] Howard Zinn in an interview with TomPaine.com to justify his opposition to the War on Terror." Someone erroneously attributed the quote to Jefferson soon thereafter, and now seemingly everyone is doing it.

Based on some rudimentary checking, it appears Mr. Forsmark is correct. Can anyone out there cite an original document or speech in which Thomas Jefferson actually wrote or uttered these words?

urban legend

 

[xen]

You would be suprised but actually this is a hoax to stop the opposition from having this talking point. Its probly been used since the vietnam era.

There is quote from Abraham Lincoln,

As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless.

There is a website, just like you've shown, that says its FALSE.

Yet IVE read, from the actual BOOK, the series of letters where this passage exists.
You would see why i dont believe these 'its a hoax!' websites.

 

[kurtsprincess]

You would be suprised but actually this is a hoax to stop the opposition from having this talking point. Its probly been used since the vietnam era.

There is quote from Abraham Lincoln,


There is a website, just like you've shown, that says its FALSE.

Yet IVE read, from the actual BOOK, the series of letters where this passage exists.
You would see why i dont believe these 'its a hoax!' websites.

Well, xen, I didn't just rely on that particular website. I did a quote search to find where the original quote (several legitimate website that show quotes of thousands of famous people) shows up and can't find it. Sure would appreciate your help in locating where he originally made the statement. That way we can respond to the urban legend website with actual facts. Used both "dissent" and "jefferson" and can't locate anything yet. Usually, on this board, when one makes a statement we show the source. I think people around here will appreciate your posts more if you are able to do that.

Let me know when you find it.....I sure appreciate the other link you provided.

 

[xen]

Alrighty, ill look, but tell me this:whats with the vote!?

 

[kurtsprincess]

BTW.....here are the two quotes I found regarding "dissent" and "Jefferson"

"What country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then."

 

[kurtsprincess]

Alrighty, ill look, but tell me this:whats with the vote!?

Vote?

 

[xen]

Heck ya, those are some goodones. "I like a little rebellion now and then" and you should too ladies!

Heres one "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous sea of liberty"

ya'll are too scared of the liberty. suck it up!

 

[kurtsprincess]

Heck ya, those are some goodones. "I like a little rebellion now and then" and you should too ladies!

Heres one "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous sea of liberty"

ya'll are too scared of the liberty. suck it up!

You are too funny xen..............what would you do with absolute liberty....... you'd be so bored.........

 

[xen]

Liberty is what man will always seek, its happiness. Free to do what one wishes. Though I dont think anything can be absolute.

 

[kurtsprincess]

Free to do what one wishes.

xen............surely you can't condone this statement. Even you must know that some constraints to liberty are necessary to have an orderly society.......think about it.

Do you truly believe everyone wants to do the same things, in the same manner, at the same time, etc., etc. and that being "free to do what one wishes" will not impinge upon another's freedoms?

 

[xen]

Yep, its not absolute, man can do what he wish as long it does not infringe upon another person rights. Also, why would anyone want to do the SAME things, same time. I never said that. Who would want that? why would liberty create this?

 

[kurtsprincess]

Yep, its not absolute, man can do what he wish as long it does not infringe upon another person rights. Also, why would anyone want to do the SAME things, same time. I never said that. Who would want that? why would liberty create this?

You are the one that said liberty is the freedom to do what one wishes. So, when there are two people with opposing wishes........which one gives up liberty? And who enforces liberty?

 

[xen]

Thats a balance that the american people must decide.

The american people enforce liberty. And not in OTHER countries, that was never intended.

 

[kurtsprincess]

Thats a balance that the american people must decide.

The american people enforce liberty. And not in OTHER countries, that was never intended.

Yes, the American people (government) decides what the balance will be. And capitalism, or "free exercise of industry" is one way of supporting liberty.

Because you said Jefferson is one of your teachers, thought you might like this quote.


"To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, 'the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it.'" --Thomas Jefferson

I don't think he advocated public ownership of industry.

 

[xen]

Yes, the American people (government) decides what the balance will be. And capitalism, or "free exercise of industry" is one way of supporting liberty.

Because you said Jefferson is one of your teachers, thought you might like this quote.


"To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, 'the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it.'" --Thomas Jefferson

Wow, you understand that the people are the government in this country, we write the rules for ourselves. cool, your a first.

Thats good quote. TO ME, it re-affirms that this is a capitalist society. The right to gain private wealth.

"I don't think he advocated public ownership of industry."

Either do I, thats why i dont believe in communism, and ive never heard of ANYONE believing in it.. not counting the russian kid who i went to school with, CCCp on his plates.

Heres a good one from Teddy

"The absence of effective state, and, especially, national, restraint upon unfair money getting has tended to create a small class of enormously wealthy and economically powerful men, whose chief object is to hold and increase their power. The prime need is to change the conditions which enable these men to accumulate power which it is not for the general welfare that they should hold or exercise. We grudge no man a fortune which represents his own power and sagacity, when exercised with entire regard to the welfare of his fellows. Again, comrades over there, take the lesson from your own experience. Not only did you not grudge, but you gloried in the promotion of the great generals who gained their promotion by leading the army to victory. So it is with us. We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community. This, I know, implies a policy of a far more active governmental interference with social and economic conditions in this country than we have yet had, but I think we have got to face the fact that such an increase in governmental control is now necessary."

This is great stuff.
We grudge no man a fortune which represents his own power and sagacity, when exercised with entire regard to the welfare of his fellows.

 

[manu1959]

Thanks for all three of you pointing out my spelling error!

Thomas Jefferson, the AUTHOR of our Declaration of Independence says that "dissent is highest form of patriotism."

Jefferson IS actually my leader. Sorry if that is wrong or insane because he is long gone...but I am still being taught by him and many other past leaders.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/a/146858.htm

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Gunny]

Actually WE are the government in this country, the 'leaders' you speak of ONLY represent us.

Sounds good on paper, and is technically correct. In actuality, most represent the interests of those who support them best and keep them in office.

You can't say "we the people" in one statement and bitch about corporations running government in the next. If the evil corporations are pulling the strings, it stands to reason that "we the people" are not.

 

[Gunny]

Thanks for all three of you pointing out my spelling error!

do itashimashite However, the error was not in spelling .... it was grammatical. You used the wrong word. If it makes you feel better, you spelled it right.

Thomas Jefferson, the AUTHOR of our Declaration of Independence says that "dissent is highest form of patriotism."

Jefferson IS actually my leader. Sorry if that is wrong or insane because he is long gone...but I am still being taught by him and many other past leaders.

Broaden your horizons. Jefferson deserves no special reverence, and you are taking one statement made by him out of context and trying to run with it. Compare his so-called intellectual writings with his actions as President, or even his personal behavior.

The point that is trying to be made is that dissent for the sake of dissent is not patriotic, nor even worthy. It's pointless, and you can apply "the boy who cride wolf" analogy here. If you bitch about every little thing, then when something truly important comes along, no one's listening to you anymore as you have long since rendered yourself to the squawkbox trashheap.