Twoofer Strategy

[Mr. Jones]

As for the 9/11 conspiracy. 1000's of people were there when it happened. There was destruction EVERYWHERE. People were amongst the destruction and around it. People were cleaning it up. You mean to tell me that NO ONE, out of all the months it took to clean that place up, found any shred of physical evidence to prove a government conspiracy?

No one in an official government position looked for incriminating evidence that would point the finger at anybody other then Al CIA DUH, being involved. Remember the Al Qaeda, OBL did it theme was on the MSM networks almost immediately. Absolute evidence of explosives/incendiaries was likely forever destroyed when like 97-99% of the steel was quickly shipped away in trucks with GPS's.

"The 9/11 disaster scene in Manhattan, dubbed “Ground Zero,” should have been treated as a crime scene in accordance with 9/11's immediate appellation “the Crime of the Century,” in greater measure than simply as the scene of a terrorist attack that would immediately be labeled an “act of war.” Certainly material and debris, where injured people might be trapped, had to be removed as quickly as practical. But, as important evidence, it should have been taken to a secure site for further investigation.
NFPA 921 states:
“Once evidence has been removed from the scene, it should be maintained and not be destroyed or altered until others who have a reasonable interest in the matter have been notified.” Moreover, after there was no reasonable hope of finding any more victims alive, there was no longer any need for the headlong rush to dispose of the steel.

"As the NIST report admitted, the three WTC skyscrapers whose destruction was blamed primarily on fire were the only cases of modern steel-framed high-rise buildings in world history to have ever completely collapsed because of fire. The structural steel was therefore extremely important evidence. Yet this evidence was quickly hauled away by up to 400 trucks per day and taken … where? Not to a secure place to await inspection, but to barges where it was readied for shipping."
Evidence Destroyed is Justice Denied

According to Erik Lawyer, founder of Firefighters for 9/11 Truth, officials in charge of the scene admitted that “the majority of the evidence was destroyed.”
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TULmLtqRXZ4]YouTube - FirefightersFor911TRUTH.org - Erik Lawyer - Press Conference[/ame]

Furthermore, the guidelines of the NFPA were ignored-
During an investigation, many things must be considered. Aside from the physical evidence, and witness testimony, suspect criminal history also must be analyzed. The investigation must include past history and the Modus Operandi, “M.O.” for short.


Fire Fighters For 9-11 Truth » Blog Archive » Extremism- N.F.P.A. 921- 19.4.8.2.6

NFPA 921 calls for the consideration of the possibility of exotic accelerants or explosives when “pulverized concrete”, “high order damage”, and “lateral ejection of building elements” are found. Pulverized concrete covered all of lower Manhattan and comprised up to 30% of the WTC dust. The Twin Towers were completely destroyed down to their individual structural elements, and ejected as far as 600 feet.

NFPA 921 states that accelerants should be investigated in any fire crime scene and that molten steel may indicate the use of thermite, an incendiary and accelerant. Yet NIST did not look for thermite.

One has to take into account the seriousness of this breach, along with the destruction of mostly all the available evidence.
According to reports there were FEMA volunteer investigators that did manage to conduct independent testing of the little steel available and they concluded this that the NY Times published-Prior to the release of FEMA's report, a fire protection engineer and two science professors published a brief report in JOM disclosing some of this evidence.

The results of the examination are striking. They reveal a phenomenon never before observed in building fires: eutectic reactions, which caused "intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese." The New York Times described this as "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation." 2 WPI provides a graphic summary of the phenomenon.
A one-inch column has been reduced to half-inch thickness. Its edges--which are curled like a paper scroll--have been thinned to almost razor sharpness. Gaping holes--some larger than a silver dollar--let light shine through a formerly solid steel flange. This Swiss cheese appearance shocked all of the fire-wise professors, who expected to see distortion and bending--but not holes.

9-11 Research: Forensic Metallurgy
An Initial Microstructural Analysis of A36 Steel from WTC Building 7

WPI - Transformations: The "Deep Mystery" of Melted Steel

So there is sufficient evidence that causes much probable doubt to what has been told, and what you believe.

We can find 1000 year old bones and figure out where they came from, how long they've been in the ground, and what kind of diet the person had...and you mean to tell me that not one shred of physical evidence...NOT PICTURES...were found by anyone from "the outside" of the government....????

If you look around, and read some of the above stuff I posted, you should be able to draw the conclusion that there IS verifiable evidence that strongly counters the NIST and official fantasy story.
The problem is that the people in charge of pressing the issue to hear this evidence are either directly or indirectly involved in some way or connected TO or dependent ON the government, or plain scared for themselves and their families.
One has to understand that the perpetrators are very powerful and well connected, the Bushes included.
What is hard to understand is that the US government has admitted or been caught lying to the American public for decades, and there is verifiable proof that Americans have been lied to to go along with preplanned wars, IE: The Gulf Of Tonkin, JUST TO NAME ONE INCIDENT.
Where as the people who have brought about and shined a light to the lies and cover up of the 9-11 attacks by the US government, have credible standing and have no reason to lie to us.
They are taking huge chances by exposing all the doubts of the 9-11 story as told by the US officials.

You're arrogant attitude shows through...this is why no one takes you seriously. I do know the difference between letting something happen and actually doing something. And so what...they allowed it? PROVE IT!

If all the evidence NIST purposefully ignored, and was withheld to the 9-11 commission, was allowed it would stand a chance of being proven, but as it is today as back then it is a massive cover up, that would potentially cause a major revolt by the still clear headed thinking masses, they can't allow that.

Is this any different than the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese? WE SAW THEIR PLANES ON RADAR! It was dismissed. Can we now say that it was a government conpsiracy to propel us into war?

If you think all these instances are some sort of coincidence, you are very naive, and have not immersed yourself in studies of government atrocities past.

Yes, the government knew we were going to be attacked around the date of 9/11, but do you honestly think they new exactly when and where it was going to take place?

Many signs point to the answer of this question as a resounding YES, BUT understand that a small corrupt element of people working in positions of power and authority that their underlings would never think to question their actions, for many years are thought to be responsible.
There is also substantial proof that the defense dept had training drills about such as what happened on 9-11 many years ago.
That it is a coincidence that drills were planned and running on the day of 9-11 is very suspicious and just one of many "too coincidental to be a coincidence" things that happened.
Take the 7-7 bombings in London as another example...How "coincidental" that terror drills were planned and occurring on the VERY DAY of these tube bombings.
Just this "coincidence" should make anyone with an open and objective mind see the global reach and power of these powerful criminals. So we have 2 "terror" attacks on the main players for the eventual "war on terror" that terrorized its nations citizens into acquiescing to enlist and support their war agendas.

Do you think that they allowed our civilians to die? Up until 9/11 NO ONE would have believed that these third world terrorists could pull of something like that.

Bullshit the WTC was "attacked" in "93, and the PTB planned for attack scenarios like that on 9-11 for years, and YES you have to understand that the people in power don't give a rats ass about you or the citizenry, we are just cattle in their heard, and your death is insignificant especially when you take into account all the past abuses, and lies perpetrated upon the public.

We were operating on the premise of previous attacks and our own experience of what we "thought" they were capable of. Who would have guessed these guys could hi-jack planes and actually fly them?

Who would have guessed that the most heavily funded defense apparatus in the world would fuck up so bad as to allow this to happen? This was no "mistake" to think so is naive and dangerously stupid. They could have placed monkeys in the cockpits of the planes, and with the remote control technology it wouldn't matter.

You guys throw around all of these accuasations without proving them one bit. You post little tiny bits of information that don't prove a thing. Basic Fact: NO ONE HAS PROVED THIS CONSPIRACY; LIHOP or MIHOP

You totally ignore the credible proof of the lies and cover ups, brought to you for analysis from very credible sources, but you willfully ignore it all instead you believe the ones that have lied to you and the rest of us for decades.
What you also do not seem to grasp is that you believe what you are told by people that have NOT PROVEN their theory at all, but you believe them because of your need to appeal to their authority, and probably because you can't face the very real possibility, given all the good reliable counter theory, that your "pledge of allegiance" has been to a rotten to the core lying bunch of globalist thieves, liars and murderers.

False flag attacks and lies, all documented and out in the open for your review, and you demand proof that the US government is not possibly complicit?? Don't continue to be a foolish person, for Gods sake. The world we live in is controlled by ruthless controlling evil people that do not give one shit about you, this is the reality.

Report on False Flags in America | Ron Paul 2012 | Sound Money, Peace and Liberty

 

[Mr. Jones]

so what you are saying is they always find the black boxes but sometimes they are damaged

I'm saying that sometimes they find them and they're damaged and sometimes they DON'T find them at all because they were destroyed on impact or destroyed by a resulting fire.

Ah but hijackers IDs and such miraculously escape from being destroyed? Smarten up man, it is obvious they lied and had so much motive to blame the "terrorists".
Like I said too coincidental to be mere coincidence.



Rigorous Intuition: The Coincidence Theorist's Guide to 9/11

 

[Mr. Jones]

It's been proven that "black boxes" have been destroyed before in plane and helicopter crashes by impact and by fire.... The "questions" revolving around them "missing" are just speculation...Here are some real life examples of black boxes being destroyed, never found, or deemed unusable... The guy that gave rise to the FBI finding black boxes (which are actually orange) gave this accound of them finding one. He eventually wrote a book and toured the country. He was later arrested for impersonating a firefighter and possessing stoken firefighter property from ground zero. He has been labled a fraud by fire marshals, in particular Fire Marshal Conrad Tinney...

As far as the report about NTSB having the boxes. They were "supposedly" quoted in saying that they "had the boxes" but didn't know where they are now. If this was intended to be a cover up, why would NTSB have had the boxes in the first place...them having the boxes show an attempt to investigate them, not a cover up. If this was a cover up, the NTSB would have never had the boxes.

"April 28, 1999

HEADLINE: KAL MD-11 crew complained of control problems: CVR
SOURCE: Air Transport Intelligence
BYLINE: Nicholas Ionides
DATELINE: Singapore



The crew of the Korean Air (KAL) Boeing MD-11 freighter which crashed near Shanghai on 15 April complained to each other of control problems soon after take-off, according to an initial decoding of the aircraft's cockpit voice recorder (CVR)...

The CAAC, which is being assisted in its investigation by the NTSB and the Korean Civil Aviation Bureau, says the aircraft's flight data recorder was destroyed by the impact, "and only fragments of the tape have been recovered"."

"June 6, 1999, Sunday, AM cycle

HEADLINE: One year later, crash of rescue helicopter still a mystery
DATELINE: HARLINGEN, Texas



Three emergency team members died June 5, 1998, when their a Eurocopter A350BA crashed six miles southeast of Cuevitas at about 5:40 a.m. on the way to a major accident.

The victims were Carlos De La Fuente Sr., a 34-year-old flight nurse; paramedic Brenda Leinweber, 46, of South Padre Island; and pilot Anthony Martinez, 46, of McAllen.

The helicopter was not found until the next day at 9:45 a.m., thirty hours later. Searchers were hampered by thick brush because very little of the helicopter remained. Even the flight data recorder had been destroyed." but found

"Barrie Examiner (Ontario)

October 20, 2004 Wednesday
Final Edition



HALIFAX (CP) -- Investigators searching for the cause of the crash last week of a Boeing 747 cargo jet won't get to hear from the two people who may have known exactly what happened.

After days of searching swampy, scorched terrain outside Halifax, officials recovered the aircraft's cockpit voice recorder from a kilometre-long trail of mangled debris.

"But that's the good news," Bill Fowler, lead investigator for the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, said during a news conference Tuesday.

"The not-so-good news is the recorder was damaged such that there is no retrievable information."

The so-called black box, which records the cockpit conversations of the pilot and co-pilot, was destroyed by fire ]after the MK Airlines Ltd. jumbo jet crashed on takeoff last Thursday at Halifax International Airport.

Fowler said the recorder was found Monday and shipped to the board's lab in Ottawa.

It was quickly determined that no recording survived the fire that resulted when the jet, carrying a full load of fuel, hit the ground and broke up.

"It certainly would have helped, but we were operating under the assumption we wouldn't have it," said Fowler, referring to the severity of the impact.

A second black box -- the plane's flight data recorder -- was recovered Sunday. That instrument, which monitors aircraft function and performance, was also damaged, but investigators are hopeful it will offer fresh clues."

Flight International

January 30, 2007



An investigation into the loss of two Royal Netherlands Air Force (RNLF) Boeing CH-47D Chinook transport helicopters in Afghanistan in 2005 has identified pilot error and a lack of experience in operating in difficult terrain as the main causes in both non-fatal accidents.On 27 July 2005, the crew of Chinook D-105 were flying a night mission as part of a two-ship formation to resupply Special Forces personnel, but were forced to abandon their initial landing attempt when the lead aircraft created brown-out conditions. During their second attempt, the pilots failed to notice a left-hand drift, which caused the aircraft to roll over when it touched down. Although the crew evacuated safely, the aircraft and its flight data recorder were destroyed in the resulting fire and then the

The Black Boxes - 911myths

your debwunkiing site is not credible

why is it not credible? Why is it any different than 9/11truth.org, or any other twoofer site? How come truther sites are credible and others not? How come truther "witnesses" are credible, but thousands of others not? I'm seeing a pattern here

About 9-11myths.com-
911myths:About - 911myths

9-11myhs general disclaimer-
911myths:General disclaimer - 911myths

help contents page-
Help:Contents - 911myths

Just "Email me at [email protected] if you need help!"
Mike is soooo such a credible source

You want a credible source filled with credible people? here you go-

Petition plus Name list

AE911Truth.org

Fire Fighters For 9-11 Truth » Evidence

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

Patriots Question 9/11 - Engineers and Architects Question the 9/11 Commission Report

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LO5V2CJpzI&feature=related]YouTube - Barry Jennings - 9/11 Early Afternoon ABC7 Interview[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daNr_TrBw6E]YouTube - General of all American Intelligence: 911 was a fraud![/ame]

Lawyers for 9/11 Truth

Gorden Duff
The 9/11 Commission Rejects own Report as Based on Government Lies - Salem-News.Com

GORDON DUFF: SABROSKY INTERVIEW TIES ISRAEL TO 9/11 : Veterans Today

Veterans Today

Among many others that are backed up by many good credible people and sources, including military, engineers, politicians and CIA,FBI and civil workers in FDNY.
You seem to not look closely at the evidence these brave people bring forth, and you do all you can to push the criminals cover ups and story's as true and without a doubt, and always diminish and ridicule the ones that bravely expose the lies and cover ups.

 

[Patriot911]

so what you are saying is they always find the black boxes but sometimes they are damaged

I'm saying that sometimes they find them and they're damaged and sometimes they DON'T find them at all because they were destroyed on impact or destroyed by a resulting fire.

Ah but hijackers IDs and such miraculously escape from being destroyed? Smarten up man, it is obvious they lied and had so much motive to blame the "terrorists".
Like I said too coincidental to be mere coincidence.



Rigorous Intuition: The Coincidence Theorist's Guide to 9/11

Notice how everything in the truthtard bible is based on opinion? "This looks too much like controlled demolition to be anything other than controlled demolition! This is too coincidental to be coincidence! I don't think that hole looks like it was made by a plane! That hole in the pentagon doesn't look big enough!"

Do they have evidence to back up their bullshit? Oh, they CLAIM they have evidence. Some even claim it is court-admissible. Yet not one of them can come forward and actually PRODUCE any of this evidence.

Why? Because they are all retarded piece of shit traitors trying to get people to rise up against the government (Jews, NWO, <insert favorite bad guys here>). Trying to get people riled up against the government, especially when based on lies, is called sedition. One of these days you shits are going to go a step too far and end up on the wrong end of the law.

 

[Mr. Jones]

so what you are saying is they always find the black boxes but sometimes they are damaged

I'm saying that sometimes they find them and they're damaged and sometimes they DON'T find them at all because they were destroyed on impact or destroyed by a resulting fire.

Regarding the black boxes

All jetliners are equipped with flight data recorders (FDRs) and cockpit voice recorders (CVRs) contained in "black boxes" designed to survive the most severe crashes. To date, none of the contents of any of the black boxes have been released to the public, With the exception of a partial transcript of Flight 93's CVR, the contents of any of the black boxes remained unknown to the public until August of 2006, when the National Security Archive published long-hidden NTSB Reports including flight path and other studies of the commandeered flights. The studies include FDR data from Flight 77 and Flight 93. Authorities had previously claimed that all but the voice recorder on Flight 93 were either not recovered or too damaged to yield data. The black boxes of Flight 77 were allegedly found on September 14th.

According to the federal authorities controlling Ground Zero, the black boxes from the two crashed 767s, Flight 11 and Flight 175, failed to turn up in the rubble taken from the site. 4 The 9/11 Commission Report backs the FBI's story, flatly stating: "The CVRs and FDRs from American 11 and United 175 were not found."

There are accounts contradicting the official account of the black boxes. Two men who worked in the cleanup operation at Ground Zero claim that they helped authorities find three of the four black boxes in October of 2001. One of the workers, New York City firefighter Nicholas DeMasi, has self-published a book with other Ground Zero workers in which he describes the recovery of the devices. 5 The book, Behind the Scenes: GROUND ZERO, A Collection of Personal Accounts, can be ordered through SummerOfTruth.org.

In December 2005, CounterPunch reported that an NTSB source contradicted the official account:
"Off the record, we had the boxes," the source says. "You'd have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here."

But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.

There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified).
Dave Lindorff: Missing Black Boxes in WTC Attacks Found

Survivability Requirements

Events that would damage the recorders sufficiently to make them unreadable are extremely rare. NTSB spokesperson Ted Lopatkiewicz said that he couldn't recall a domestic case before 9/11/01 in which the recorders were not recovered. 7 The recorders are designed to survive the kinds of impacts that happened at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
The FAA has placed durability requirements on the recorders and their casings to survive severe impact and fire

The storage medium of each recorder is located in a protective capsule, which must be able to withstand an impact of 3,400 Gs (3,400 times the force of gravity). Additionally, each must also survive flames at 2,000 F for up to 30 minutes, and submersion in 20,000 feet of saltwater for 30 days. Typically, to increase their chances of survival, the recorders are located in the tail section of the aircraft, which usually sustains the least impact in a crash. 8
9-11 Research: Black Boxes

Pentagon aircraft data recorder-


Now there is overwhelming evidence which suggests the data that is being provided to the public through the FOIA, is not from an aircraft which has been operated by American Airlines.

Overwhelming Evidence Pentagon Aircraft Data Is Not From American Airlines Jet

 

[candycorn]

I'm saying that sometimes they find them and they're damaged and sometimes they DON'T find them at all because they were destroyed on impact or destroyed by a resulting fire.

Ah but hijackers IDs and such miraculously escape from being destroyed? Smarten up man, it is obvious they lied and had so much motive to blame the "terrorists".
Like I said too coincidental to be mere coincidence.



Rigorous Intuition: The Coincidence Theorist's Guide to 9/11

Notice how everything in the truthtard bible is based on opinion? "This looks too much like controlled demolition to be anything other than controlled demolition! This is too coincidental to be coincidence! I don't think that hole looks like it was made by a plane! That hole in the pentagon doesn't look big enough!"

Do they have evidence to back up their bullshit? Oh, they CLAIM they have evidence. Some even claim it is court-admissible. Yet not one of them can come forward and actually PRODUCE any of this evidence.

Why? Because they are all retarded piece of shit traitors trying to get people to rise up against the government (Jews, NWO, <insert favorite bad guys here>). Trying to get people riled up against the government, especially when based on lies, is called sedition. One of these days you shits are going to go a step too far and end up on the wrong end of the law.

I personally can't wait til they all are put into very small cells for a very long time.

"Mr. Jones" is so fat she'll fill up the entire cell to the point where she'll look like a talapia with grill marks on it's skin.

 

[Mr. Jones]

Ah but hijackers IDs and such miraculously escape from being destroyed? Smarten up man, it is obvious they lied and had so much motive to blame the "terrorists".
Like I said too coincidental to be mere coincidence.



Rigorous Intuition: The Coincidence Theorist's Guide to 9/11

Notice how everything in the truthtard bible is based on opinion? "This looks too much like controlled demolition to be anything other than controlled demolition! This is too coincidental to be coincidence! I don't think that hole looks like it was made by a plane! That hole in the pentagon doesn't look big enough!"

Do they have evidence to back up their bullshit? Oh, they CLAIM they have evidence. Some even claim it is court-admissible. Yet not one of them can come forward and actually PRODUCE any of this evidence.

Why? Because they are all retarded piece of shit traitors trying to get people to rise up against the government (Jews, NWO, <insert favorite bad guys here>). Trying to get people riled up against the government, especially when based on lies, is called sedition. One of these days you shits are going to go a step too far and end up on the wrong end of the law.

I personally can't wait til they all are put into very small cells for a very long time.

"Mr. Jones" is so fat she'll fill up the entire cell to the point where she'll look like a talapia with grill marks on it's skin.

Your personal attacks are a weak attempt to argue facts, and have no merit of credibility like the rest of your idiotic posts, but do a good job of showing off your demented, stuck in an abused childhood trauma state of mind.
I am praying for the day when traitors such as yourself feel the pain of your deeds, but the sissy that you expose yourself to really be, will probably be offering sexual favors in exchange for the punishment that's warranted.

 

[Patriot911]

Your personal attacks are a weak attempt to argue facts, and have no merit of credibility like the rest of your idiotic posts, but do a good job of showing off your demented, stuck in an abused childhood trauma state of mind.
I am praying for the day when traitors such as yourself feel the pain of your deeds, but the sissy that you expose yourself to really be, will probably be offering sexual favors in exchange for the punishment that's warranted.

The sheer irony and massive hypocricy of your post is, I am sure, lost on someone as ignorant and infantile as you. Thanks for the laughs, Jones!

 

[BrianH]

No one in an official government position looked for incriminating evidence that would point the finger at anybody other then Al CIA DUH, being involved. Remember the Al Qaeda, OBL did it theme was on the MSM networks almost immediately. Absolute evidence of explosives/incendiaries was likely forever destroyed when like 97-99% of the steel was quickly shipped away in trucks with GPS's.

"The 9/11 disaster scene in Manhattan, dubbed “Ground Zero,” should have been treated as a crime scene in accordance with 9/11's immediate appellation “the Crime of the Century,” in greater measure than simply as the scene of a terrorist attack that would immediately be labeled an “act of war.” Certainly material and debris, where injured people might be trapped, had to be removed as quickly as practical. But, as important evidence, it should have been taken to a secure site for further investigation.
NFPA 921 states:
“Once evidence has been removed from the scene, it should be maintained and not be destroyed or altered until others who have a reasonable interest in the matter have been notified.” Moreover, after there was no reasonable hope of finding any more victims alive, there was no longer any need for the headlong rush to dispose of the steel.

"As the NIST report admitted, the three WTC skyscrapers whose destruction was blamed primarily on fire were the only cases of modern steel-framed high-rise buildings in world history to have ever completely collapsed because of fire. The structural steel was therefore extremely important evidence. Yet this evidence was quickly hauled away by up to 400 trucks per day and taken … where? Not to a secure place to await inspection, but to barges where it was readied for shipping."
Evidence Destroyed is Justice Denied

According to Erik Lawyer, founder of Firefighters for 9/11 Truth, officials in charge of the scene admitted that “the majority of the evidence was destroyed.”
YouTube - FirefightersFor911TRUTH.org - Erik Lawyer - Press Conference

Furthermore, the guidelines of the NFPA were ignored-
During an investigation, many things must be considered. Aside from the physical evidence, and witness testimony, suspect criminal history also must be analyzed. The investigation must include past history and the Modus Operandi, “M.O.” for short.


Fire Fighters For 9-11 Truth » Blog Archive » Extremism- N.F.P.A. 921- 19.4.8.2.6

NFPA 921 calls for the consideration of the possibility of exotic accelerants or explosives when “pulverized concrete”, “high order damage”, and “lateral ejection of building elements” are found. Pulverized concrete covered all of lower Manhattan and comprised up to 30% of the WTC dust. The Twin Towers were completely destroyed down to their individual structural elements, and ejected as far as 600 feet.

NFPA 921 states that accelerants should be investigated in any fire crime scene and that molten steel may indicate the use of thermite, an incendiary and accelerant. Yet NIST did not look for thermite.

One has to take into account the seriousness of this breach, along with the destruction of mostly all the available evidence.
According to reports there were FEMA volunteer investigators that did manage to conduct independent testing of the little steel available and they concluded this that the NY Times published-Prior to the release of FEMA's report, a fire protection engineer and two science professors published a brief report in JOM disclosing some of this evidence.

The results of the examination are striking. They reveal a phenomenon never before observed in building fires: eutectic reactions, which caused "intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese." The New York Times described this as "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation." 2 WPI provides a graphic summary of the phenomenon.
A one-inch column has been reduced to half-inch thickness. Its edges--which are curled like a paper scroll--have been thinned to almost razor sharpness. Gaping holes--some larger than a silver dollar--let light shine through a formerly solid steel flange. This Swiss cheese appearance shocked all of the fire-wise professors, who expected to see distortion and bending--but not holes.

9-11 Research: Forensic Metallurgy
An Initial Microstructural Analysis of A36 Steel from WTC Building 7

WPI - Transformations: The "Deep Mystery" of Melted Steel

So there is sufficient evidence that causes much probable doubt to what has been told, and what you believe.


If you look around, and read some of the above stuff I posted, you should be able to draw the conclusion that there IS verifiable evidence that strongly counters the NIST and official fantasy story.
The problem is that the people in charge of pressing the issue to hear this evidence are either directly or indirectly involved in some way or connected TO or dependent ON the government, or plain scared for themselves and their families.
One has to understand that the perpetrators are very powerful and well connected, the Bushes included.
What is hard to understand is that the US government has admitted or been caught lying to the American public for decades, and there is verifiable proof that Americans have been lied to to go along with preplanned wars, IE: The Gulf Of Tonkin, JUST TO NAME ONE INCIDENT.
Where as the people who have brought about and shined a light to the lies and cover up of the 9-11 attacks by the US government, have credible standing and have no reason to lie to us.
They are taking huge chances by exposing all the doubts of the 9-11 story as told by the US officials.

If all the evidence NIST purposefully ignored, and was withheld to the 9-11 commission, was allowed it would stand a chance of being proven, but as it is today as back then it is a massive cover up, that would potentially cause a major revolt by the still clear headed thinking masses, they can't allow that.

If you think all these instances are some sort of coincidence, you are very naive, and have not immersed yourself in studies of government atrocities past.


Many signs point to the answer of this question as a resounding YES, BUT understand that a small corrupt element of people working in positions of power and authority that their underlings would never think to question their actions, for many years are thought to be responsible.
There is also substantial proof that the defense dept had training drills about such as what happened on 9-11 many years ago.
That it is a coincidence that drills were planned and running on the day of 9-11 is very suspicious and just one of many "too coincidental to be a coincidence" things that happened.
Take the 7-7 bombings in London as another example...How "coincidental" that terror drills were planned and occurring on the VERY DAY of these tube bombings.
Just this "coincidence" should make anyone with an open and objective mind see the global reach and power of these powerful criminals. So we have 2 "terror" attacks on the main players for the eventual "war on terror" that terrorized its nations citizens into acquiescing to enlist and support their war agendas.

Bullshit the WTC was "attacked" in "93, and the PTB planned for attack scenarios like that on 9-11 for years, and YES you have to understand that the people in power don't give a rats ass about you or the citizenry, we are just cattle in their heard, and your death is insignificant especially when you take into account all the past abuses, and lies perpetrated upon the public.

Who would have guessed that the most heavily funded defense apparatus in the world would fuck up so bad as to allow this to happen? This was no "mistake" to think so is naive and dangerously stupid. They could have placed monkeys in the cockpits of the planes, and with the remote control technology it wouldn't matter.


You totally ignore the credible proof of the lies and cover ups, brought to you for analysis from very credible sources, but you willfully ignore it all instead you believe the ones that have lied to you and the rest of us for decades.
What you also do not seem to grasp is that you believe what you are told by people that have NOT PROVEN their theory at all, but you believe them because of your need to appeal to their authority, and probably because you can't face the very real possibility, given all the good reliable counter theory, that your "pledge of allegiance" has been to a rotten to the core lying bunch of globalist thieves, liars and murderers.

False flag attacks and lies, all documented and out in the open for your review, and you demand proof that the US government is not possibly complicit?? Don't continue to be a foolish person, for Gods sake. The world we live in is controlled by ruthless controlling evil people that do not give one shit about you, this is the reality.

Report on False Flags in America | Ron Paul 2012 | Sound Money, Peace and Liberty

1. Al Qaeda PUBLICLY announced responsibility...
2. They had ALREADY tried to bring down the WTC by setting off a bomb in the basement in 1993...one word. MOTIVE

 

[BrianH]

destroyed...or found but damaged ...

Does it matter? If it's damaged and unusable then the data on it is destroyed. It wouldn't matter to twoofers if the FBI came right out and said they found the black boxes but the data had been destroyed. That's the problem with conspiracy nuts; not matter what the story is, they'll find some way to say that the government is hiding something.

 

[BrianH]

No one in an official government position looked for incriminating evidence that would point the finger at anybody other then Al CIA DUH, being involved. Remember the Al Qaeda, OBL did it theme was on the MSM networks almost immediately. Absolute evidence of explosives/incendiaries was likely forever destroyed when like 97-99% of the steel was quickly shipped away in trucks with GPS's.

"The 9/11 disaster scene in Manhattan, dubbed “Ground Zero,” should have been treated as a crime scene in accordance with 9/11's immediate appellation “the Crime of the Century,” in greater measure than simply as the scene of a terrorist attack that would immediately be labeled an “act of war.” Certainly material and debris, where injured people might be trapped, had to be removed as quickly as practical. But, as important evidence, it should have been taken to a secure site for further investigation.
NFPA 921 states:
“Once evidence has been removed from the scene, it should be maintained and not be destroyed or altered until others who have a reasonable interest in the matter have been notified.” Moreover, after there was no reasonable hope of finding any more victims alive, there was no longer any need for the headlong rush to dispose of the steel.

"As the NIST report admitted, the three WTC skyscrapers whose destruction was blamed primarily on fire were the only cases of modern steel-framed high-rise buildings in world history to have ever completely collapsed because of fire. The structural steel was therefore extremely important evidence. Yet this evidence was quickly hauled away by up to 400 trucks per day and taken … where? Not to a secure place to await inspection, but to barges where it was readied for shipping."
Evidence Destroyed is Justice Denied

According to Erik Lawyer, founder of Firefighters for 9/11 Truth, officials in charge of the scene admitted that “the majority of the evidence was destroyed.”
YouTube - FirefightersFor911TRUTH.org - Erik Lawyer - Press Conference

Furthermore, the guidelines of the NFPA were ignored-
During an investigation, many things must be considered. Aside from the physical evidence, and witness testimony, suspect criminal history also must be analyzed. The investigation must include past history and the Modus Operandi, “M.O.” for short.


Fire Fighters For 9-11 Truth » Blog Archive » Extremism- N.F.P.A. 921- 19.4.8.2.6

NFPA 921 calls for the consideration of the possibility of exotic accelerants or explosives when “pulverized concrete”, “high order damage”, and “lateral ejection of building elements” are found. Pulverized concrete covered all of lower Manhattan and comprised up to 30% of the WTC dust. The Twin Towers were completely destroyed down to their individual structural elements, and ejected as far as 600 feet.

NFPA 921 states that accelerants should be investigated in any fire crime scene and that molten steel may indicate the use of thermite, an incendiary and accelerant. Yet NIST did not look for thermite.

One has to take into account the seriousness of this breach, along with the destruction of mostly all the available evidence.
According to reports there were FEMA volunteer investigators that did manage to conduct independent testing of the little steel available and they concluded this that the NY Times published-Prior to the release of FEMA's report, a fire protection engineer and two science professors published a brief report in JOM disclosing some of this evidence.

The results of the examination are striking. They reveal a phenomenon never before observed in building fires: eutectic reactions, which caused "intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese." The New York Times described this as "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation." 2 WPI provides a graphic summary of the phenomenon.
A one-inch column has been reduced to half-inch thickness. Its edges--which are curled like a paper scroll--have been thinned to almost razor sharpness. Gaping holes--some larger than a silver dollar--let light shine through a formerly solid steel flange. This Swiss cheese appearance shocked all of the fire-wise professors, who expected to see distortion and bending--but not holes.

9-11 Research: Forensic Metallurgy
An Initial Microstructural Analysis of A36 Steel from WTC Building 7

WPI - Transformations: The "Deep Mystery" of Melted Steel

So there is sufficient evidence that causes much probable doubt to what has been told, and what you believe.


If you look around, and read some of the above stuff I posted, you should be able to draw the conclusion that there IS verifiable evidence that strongly counters the NIST and official fantasy story.
The problem is that the people in charge of pressing the issue to hear this evidence are either directly or indirectly involved in some way or connected TO or dependent ON the government, or plain scared for themselves and their families.
One has to understand that the perpetrators are very powerful and well connected, the Bushes included.
What is hard to understand is that the US government has admitted or been caught lying to the American public for decades, and there is verifiable proof that Americans have been lied to to go along with preplanned wars, IE: The Gulf Of Tonkin, JUST TO NAME ONE INCIDENT.
Where as the people who have brought about and shined a light to the lies and cover up of the 9-11 attacks by the US government, have credible standing and have no reason to lie to us.
They are taking huge chances by exposing all the doubts of the 9-11 story as told by the US officials.

If all the evidence NIST purposefully ignored, and was withheld to the 9-11 commission, was allowed it would stand a chance of being proven, but as it is today as back then it is a massive cover up, that would potentially cause a major revolt by the still clear headed thinking masses, they can't allow that.

If you think all these instances are some sort of coincidence, you are very naive, and have not immersed yourself in studies of government atrocities past.


Many signs point to the answer of this question as a resounding YES, BUT understand that a small corrupt element of people working in positions of power and authority that their underlings would never think to question their actions, for many years are thought to be responsible.
There is also substantial proof that the defense dept had training drills about such as what happened on 9-11 many years ago.
That it is a coincidence that drills were planned and running on the day of 9-11 is very suspicious and just one of many "too coincidental to be a coincidence" things that happened.
Take the 7-7 bombings in London as another example...How "coincidental" that terror drills were planned and occurring on the VERY DAY of these tube bombings.
Just this "coincidence" should make anyone with an open and objective mind see the global reach and power of these powerful criminals. So we have 2 "terror" attacks on the main players for the eventual "war on terror" that terrorized its nations citizens into acquiescing to enlist and support their war agendas.

Bullshit the WTC was "attacked" in "93, and the PTB planned for attack scenarios like that on 9-11 for years, and YES you have to understand that the people in power don't give a rats ass about you or the citizenry, we are just cattle in their heard, and your death is insignificant especially when you take into account all the past abuses, and lies perpetrated upon the public.

Who would have guessed that the most heavily funded defense apparatus in the world would fuck up so bad as to allow this to happen? This was no "mistake" to think so is naive and dangerously stupid. They could have placed monkeys in the cockpits of the planes, and with the remote control technology it wouldn't matter.


You totally ignore the credible proof of the lies and cover ups, brought to you for analysis from very credible sources, but you willfully ignore it all instead you believe the ones that have lied to you and the rest of us for decades.
What you also do not seem to grasp is that you believe what you are told by people that have NOT PROVEN their theory at all, but you believe them because of your need to appeal to their authority, and probably because you can't face the very real possibility, given all the good reliable counter theory, that your "pledge of allegiance" has been to a rotten to the core lying bunch of globalist thieves, liars and murderers.

False flag attacks and lies, all documented and out in the open for your review, and you demand proof that the US government is not possibly complicit?? Don't continue to be a foolish person, for Gods sake. The world we live in is controlled by ruthless controlling evil people that do not give one shit about you, this is the reality.

Report on False Flags in America | Ron Paul 2012 | Sound Money, Peace and Liberty

This entire post is all complete nonsense and a waste of my time having to read it. Fact, only 2500 architects and so called "engineers" have signed a petition to start a new investigation based on their so called "evidence." Many of them are computer science professors... Where are the other 9.9 million architects and engineers in the U.S. alone and why haven't they come forward???

You sit here and make complete speculations about people being involved in it with ZERO proof. You twoofers contradict yourselves. The entire ground zero should have been treated like a crime scene? WHAT? Are you fricking nuts? It brought an ENTIRE city to a stand still. I guess we should have just taken our sweet time and let those bodies rot for a while until we could figure things out. I guess we could have just let the hub of our financial district just sit around and wait for a while so we could treat it like a crime scene. It wasn't a crime scene, it was a DISASTER. Why treat it like a crime scene when you already know that planes were hi-jacked and flown into buildings?

 

[BrianH]

so what you are saying is they always find the black boxes but sometimes they are damaged

I'm saying that sometimes they find them and they're damaged and sometimes they DON'T find them at all because they were destroyed on impact or destroyed by a resulting fire.

Ah but hijackers IDs and such miraculously escape from being destroyed? Smarten up man, it is obvious they lied and had so much motive to blame the "terrorists".
Like I said too coincidental to be mere coincidence.



Rigorous Intuition: The Coincidence Theorist's Guide to 9/11

Oh my.....

Let me ask you this numb-skull. What does a passport have to do with anything. Why would it be necessary to "plant" a passport for someone whose name was on the manifest of the flight? Surely you can figure this one out.

1. The evidence of him being on the plane was NOT finding his passport. One of the othe hijackers could have had it. What IS proof he was on the plane was the manifest with HIS NAME ON IT.
2. The FEMA report show NUMEROUS other personal effects from the plane passing completely through the building....like life vests, seats from the plane...These types of items were found on top of the Bankers Trust Building. Landing gear was found five blocks away from the towers.

Here's a New York Times article of a guy finding a flight itinerary on the ground after the impact.
Michael Sheehan, a broker working on the 55th floor of 2 World Trade Center, moved to the stairwell when he realized a plane had crashed into 1 World Trade Center. By the time he reached the 25th floor, he could smell the fumes of fuel that had begun to filter through the ventilation systems of the two buildings.
On the street, standing in a shower of office paper and the siding from the building, he found a piece of paper. It was an airliner's itinerary, listing information about a flight from Boston to Los Angeles.

"I realized then that it was a commercial flight. Then the second plane hit. I realized then it was terror."
The Voices - Personal Accounts of a Morning Rush That Became the Unthinkable - Summary - NYTimes.com

 

[BrianH]

The problem with the truthers it that they attempt to make accusations beyond common sense.

They try to claime that things were done to "hide" evidence of a conspiracy when the actual existence of said "evidence" (supposedly planted and provided by the government) would be counter-productive to the conpsiracy in the first place.

1. If the terrorists passports were planted by the government...why? Why throw it out there? Surely they could have said who it was without doing so.

You twoofers lack so much common sense that it's unreal. It's like lying when the truth is better. Why would the government produce have of the crap they supposedly "produced" (according to twoofers) when they could have just not produced and no one would have questioned anything????

 

[eots]

passports found a both shanks-ville and the wtc...what are the odds

 

[BrianH]

so what you are saying is they always find the black boxes but sometimes they are damaged

I'm saying that sometimes they find them and they're damaged and sometimes they DON'T find them at all because they were destroyed on impact or destroyed by a resulting fire.

Regarding the black boxes

All jetliners are equipped with flight data recorders (FDRs) and cockpit voice recorders (CVRs) contained in "black boxes" designed to survive the most severe crashes. To date, none of the contents of any of the black boxes have been released to the public, With the exception of a partial transcript of Flight 93's CVR, the contents of any of the black boxes remained unknown to the public until August of 2006, when the National Security Archive published long-hidden NTSB Reports including flight path and other studies of the commandeered flights. The studies include FDR data from Flight 77 and Flight 93. Authorities had previously claimed that all but the voice recorder on Flight 93 were either not recovered or too damaged to yield data. The black boxes of Flight 77 were allegedly found on September 14th.

According to the federal authorities controlling Ground Zero, the black boxes from the two crashed 767s, Flight 11 and Flight 175, failed to turn up in the rubble taken from the site. 4 The 9/11 Commission Report backs the FBI's story, flatly stating: "The CVRs and FDRs from American 11 and United 175 were not found."

There are accounts contradicting the official account of the black boxes. Two men who worked in the cleanup operation at Ground Zero claim that they helped authorities find three of the four black boxes in October of 2001. One of the workers, New York City firefighter Nicholas DeMasi, has self-published a book with other Ground Zero workers in which he describes the recovery of the devices. 5 The book, Behind the Scenes: GROUND ZERO, A Collection of Personal Accounts, can be ordered through SummerOfTruth.org.

In December 2005, CounterPunch reported that an NTSB source contradicted the official account:
"Off the record, we had the boxes," the source says. "You'd have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here."

But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.

There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified).
Dave Lindorff: Missing Black Boxes in WTC Attacks Found

Survivability Requirements

Events that would damage the recorders sufficiently to make them unreadable are extremely rare. NTSB spokesperson Ted Lopatkiewicz said that he couldn't recall a domestic case before 9/11/01 in which the recorders were not recovered. 7 The recorders are designed to survive the kinds of impacts that happened at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
The FAA has placed durability requirements on the recorders and their casings to survive severe impact and fire

The storage medium of each recorder is located in a protective capsule, which must be able to withstand an impact of 3,400 Gs (3,400 times the force of gravity). Additionally, each must also survive flames at 2,000 F for up to 30 minutes, and submersion in 20,000 feet of saltwater for 30 days. Typically, to increase their chances of survival, the recorders are located in the tail section of the aircraft, which usually sustains the least impact in a crash. 8
9-11 Research: Black Boxes

Pentagon aircraft data recorder-


Now there is overwhelming evidence which suggests the data that is being provided to the public through the FOIA, is not from an aircraft which has been operated by American Airlines.

Overwhelming Evidence Pentagon Aircraft Data Is Not From American Airlines Jet

Once again to address the stupid black box issue..... Black boxes have been destroyed in PREVIOUS commercial airline crashes that didn't involve some nut-jub government conspiracy. Because they have been proven to be destroyed before, is it not possible they could have been destroyed in this case???? Let's not forget to mention that some of the commercial airliners with destroyed black boxes crashed into the ground, and not buildings....

Black boxes not indestructible
Let's keep in mind that black boxes have been destroyed by impact or fire before.

April 28, 1999

HEADLINE: KAL MD-11 crew complained of control problems: CVR
SOURCE: Air Transport Intelligence
BYLINE: Nicholas Ionides
DATELINE: Singapore



The crew of the Korean Air (KAL) Boeing MD-11 freighter which crashed near Shanghai on 15 April complained to each other of control problems soon after take-off, according to an initial decoding of the aircraft's cockpit voice recorder (CVR)...

The CAAC, which is being assisted in its investigation by the NTSB and the Korean Civil Aviation Bureau, says the aircraft's flight data recorder was destroyed by the impact, "and only fragments of the tape have been recovered".



June 6, 1999, Sunday, AM cycle

HEADLINE: One year later, crash of rescue helicopter still a mystery
DATELINE: HARLINGEN, Texas



Three emergency team members died June 5, 1998, when their a Eurocopter A350BA crashed six miles southeast of Cuevitas at about 5:40 a.m. on the way to a major accident.

The victims were Carlos De La Fuente Sr., a 34-year-old flight nurse; paramedic Brenda Leinweber, 46, of South Padre Island; and pilot Anthony Martinez, 46, of McAllen.

The helicopter was not found until the next day at 9:45 a.m., thirty hours later. Searchers were hampered by thick brush because very little of the helicopter remained. Even the flight data recorder had been destroyed.



Barrie Examiner (Ontario)

October 20, 2004 Wednesday
Final Edition



HALIFAX (CP) -- Investigators searching for the cause of the crash last week of a Boeing 747 cargo jet won't get to hear from the two people who may have known exactly what happened.

After days of searching swampy, scorched terrain outside Halifax, officials recovered the aircraft's cockpit voice recorder from a kilometre-long trail of mangled debris.

"But that's the good news," Bill Fowler, lead investigator for the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, said during a news conference Tuesday.

"The not-so-good news is the recorder was damaged such that there is no retrievable information."

The so-called black box, which records the cockpit conversations of the pilot and co-pilot, was destroyed by fire after the MK Airlines Ltd. jumbo jet crashed on takeoff last Thursday at Halifax International Airport.

Fowler said the recorder was found Monday and shipped to the board's lab in Ottawa.

It was quickly determined that no recording survived the fire that resulted when the jet, carrying a full load of fuel, hit the ground and broke up.

"It certainly would have helped, but we were operating under the assumption we wouldn't have it," said Fowler, referring to the severity of the impact.

A second black box -- the plane's flight data recorder -- was recovered Sunday. That instrument, which monitors aircraft function and performance, was also damaged, but investigators are hopeful it will offer fresh clues.



Flight International

January 30, 2007



An investigation into the loss of two Royal Netherlands Air Force (RNLF) Boeing CH-47D Chinook transport helicopters in Afghanistan in 2005 has identified pilot error and a lack of experience in operating in difficult terrain as the main causes in both non-fatal accidents.On 27 July 2005, the crew of Chinook D-105 were flying a night mission as part of a two-ship formation to resupply Special Forces personnel, but were forced to abandon their initial landing attempt when the lead aircraft created brown-out conditions. During their second attempt, the pilots failed to notice a left-hand drift, which caused the aircraft to roll over when it touched down. Although the crew evacuated safely, the aircraft and its flight data recorder were destroyed in the resulting fire.
The Black Boxes - 911myths

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a7aKaDS7CE]YouTube - 9/11 - 7/7 : Modus Operandi - The Anatomy of Attack Part 1[/ame]

 

[BrianH]

passports found a both shanks-ville and the wtc...what are the odds

The odds are VERY FAVORABLE considering personal effects have been found from OTHER commercial airliners that have crashed before september 11th. Is it really so hard to fathom? Especially because there is not strategic reason for the government to have provided a passport when the names of the hijackers were on the manifest. Flammable seats of the plane as well as flammable paper were found blocks away from the towers that came from the plane. Just because the odds of something are low doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I've shot a bullet through the same hole at 200 yards with a deer rifle.(Twice in my life) The odds of it going straight through the hole without enlarging the hole is VERY SMALL, but it happened.

 

[eots]

passports found a both shanks-ville and the wtc...what are the odds

The odds are VERY FAVORABLE considering personal effects have been found from OTHER commercial airliners that have crashed before september 11th. Is it really so hard to fathom? Especially because there is not strategic reason for the government to have provided a passport when the names of the hijackers were on the manifest. Flammable seats of the plane as well as flammable paper were found blocks away from the towers that came from the plane. Just because the odds of something are low doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I've shot a bullet through the same hole at 200 yards with a deer rifle.(Twice in my life) The odds of it going straight through the hole without enlarging the hole is VERY SMALL, but it happened.

The theory of probability: an ... - Google Books

 

[BrianH]

passports found a both shanks-ville and the wtc...what are the odds

The odds are VERY FAVORABLE considering personal effects have been found from OTHER commercial airliners that have crashed before september 11th. Is it really so hard to fathom? Especially because there is not strategic reason for the government to have provided a passport when the names of the hijackers were on the manifest. Flammable seats of the plane as well as flammable paper were found blocks away from the towers that came from the plane. Just because the odds of something are low doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I've shot a bullet through the same hole at 200 yards with a deer rifle.(Twice in my life) The odds of it going straight through the hole without enlarging the hole is VERY SMALL, but it happened.

The theory of probability: an ... - Google Books

I know what the law of probability is...I'm not spending my entire night reading the entire thing...as I'm sure you didn't as well.

Some ID's of passengers were also found at Ground zero. What's the purpose of that?
And why only produce two passports of the hijackers? Why not all of them.

As far as the black boxes, here's a hypothetical for you.

Suppose the black boxes were found and the data intact. Suppose that data clearly showed that the planes were hijacked and that it was the work of Al Qaeda. The twoofers would then claim that the data on the black boxes were pre-recorded by the government to make it look like it was Al Qaeda and that the "real" data from the boxes was erased.... Arguing with a truther is a lose-lose even if the truther is wrong. They will ALWAYS come up with some crazy alternative even though they can't prove it....the nature of a conpsiracy...

 

[eots]

the odds are very favorable considering personal effects have been found from other commercial airliners that have crashed before september 11th. Is it really so hard to fathom? Especially because there is not strategic reason for the government to have provided a passport when the names of the hijackers were on the manifest. Flammable seats of the plane as well as flammable paper were found blocks away from the towers that came from the plane. Just because the odds of something are low doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I've shot a bullet through the same hole at 200 yards with a deer rifle.(twice in my life) the odds of it going straight through the hole without enlarging the hole is very small, but it happened.

the theory of probability: An ... - google books

i know what the law of probability is...i'm not spending my entire night reading the entire thing...as i'm sure you didn't as well.

Some id's of passengers were also found at ground zero. What's the purpose of that?
And why only produce two passports of the hijackers? Why not all of them.

As far as the black boxes, here's a hypothetical for you.

Suppose the black boxes were found and the data intact. Suppose that data clearly showed that the planes were hijacked and that it was the work of al qaeda. The twoofers would then claim that the data on the black boxes were pre-recorded by the government to make it look like it was al qaeda and that the "real" data from the boxes was erased.... Arguing with a truther is a lose-lose even if the truther is wrong. They will always come up with some crazy alternative even though they can't prove it....the nature of a conpsiracy...

it is not just black boxes it is a virtual orgy of unbelievably improbable events piled one on top of each other...