Turkey ready to enter northern Iraq

[Gunny]

This you can say your "fallen soldier's" families.
It will be many families. Other thinking of you is not near to reality.

You're singing the SAME crap Saddam Hussein did. Everyone had us so worried about his battle-hardened Republican Guard, the 5th largest army in the world. They were going to do this .... they were going to do that ...

We whipped that ass so fast it wasn't even much fun.

The same fait awaits you and your two-bit, third world army.

And unless it's changed in the last few years, we ALL go out with the knowledge we might not come back, and our families do as well. DOn't confuse REAL military families with the whinings of a few idiots who are the only ones you hear about.

 

[onedomino]

Yes borders in the middle east need to be redrawn, not by Kurdish or USA imaginary maps but redrawn by Turkey.
Turkey should take up the arms and show who is boss around here!

Therein resides the real reason for a Turk invasion of northern Iraq. That is to dominate all of Kurdistan. Wonder what they are going to think about that in NE Iran? Canavar's above statement is the reason that I have been arguing that the Turks should not be allowed to enter Iraq. PKK terrorism must be condemned and stopped, but not my Turks trying to redraw borders.

 

[Shogun]

Your first statement is a lie.

Your second is just an extension of the first lie.

riiiight...

because you are not trying to rationalize the violent behaiour of REBELS just because they fall in line with your anti-muslim mentallity...

suuuuuuuuuuure...


we can always give the kurds a 747 to fly into the tallest building in Turkey, you know... Oliver North would be PROUD!

 

[onedomino]

riiiight...

because you are not trying to rationalize the violent behaiour of REBELS just because they fall in line with your anti-muslim mentallity...

suuuuuuuuuuure...


we can always give the kurds a 747 to fly into the tallest building in Turkey, you know... Oliver North would be PROUD!

No one has tried to "rationalize" rebels or terrorism. You are irrational. Don't the hallucinations get in the way of whatever pathetic life you might have? Hatred is the only message delivered by your disturbed scribble.

 

[Shogun]

Invade Iraq and not only will your military be made to regret it, but Turkey could then forget about getting in the EU (which so far the US has backed), and would likely be expelled from NATO (your participation is useless anyway). Forget about the 30 F-16 for which Turkey just signed a deal with the US. Forget about the 100 F35 JSF that Turkey has invested in, and hopes to have America deliver by 2014 (maybe we'll send those to Greece). Turkey will have to be content with second rate stuff from its old enemies in the new Soviet Union. Or maybe you can buy some French fighters. But then again, you won't be able to do that because it is the French that want to keep Turkey out of the EU. Looks like you'll be stuck with the new Soviets. Your country is no ally of the US. From blocking the 4th ID's northern route at the beginning of the Iraq war in 2003, to the hateful lies expressed daily in your media about America, we have come to expect nothing from Turkey. Invade Iraq and you will have a Kurdish problem forever. Hopefully, reasonable people in your country will prevail, and Turkey will stay on its side of the border.

yes.. hallucenogens, indeed...

HATE speach, indeed.

big words from a messageboard commando.


ps.. im sure Condi "cold war" rice will create a situation where Turkey will have all the Migs they want..


im sure that will be some liberals fault too so....

 

[ekrem]

May well be, as you can see on other threads, Russia is going USSR again, IMO. Tie yourself to their kite-it may well fly.

I'm doubting US and UK ability at this point, so you may have picked the winners.

My own assessment of current going-ons are mirrorsided in this article. This is more a look from bird-view
:

The nature of the practical preparations and psychological operations carried out up until now show that not only will this operation not be limited at all in character but that it will go beyond focusing just on targeted points and will not be a short journey over the border into Iraq’s north. The current developments in the region have, in a sense, forced Turkey into this situation. These developments could be summed up under the following headings:
(1) the start of the US pullout from Iraq and US support and encouragement of various ethnic and sectarian clashes within the framework of its “New Middle East Strategy”;
(2) an increased perception of threats aimed at Turkey originating in northern Iraq and the provocation of Turkey by the PKK-Barzani relationship;
(3) the threats against the future of the Iraqi Turkmens and Kirkuk;
(4) the irresponsible and one-sided stance of the US administration;
(5) An increase in activities aimed at shaking the prestige of Turkey and the Turkish Armed Forces;
(6) an increase in activities and force within Iraq coming from other countries in the region, most notably Iran; and
(7) the domestic political situation in Turkey.

At this point, with an over-the-border operation, it appears that there could be:
(1) a clarification of Turkish-Western relations and, in particular, current and future Turkish-American relations and the European Union accession process;
(2) increased distance traveled when it comes to Turkish foreign policies with the “East” and, within this framework, the much-speculated-upon Turkish-Russian, Turkish-Iranian and even Turkish-Iranian-Russian relations;
(3) the clarification of the future of Iraq and the likely “Kurdish state” and, within this framework, a testing of the partnership and friendship of Turkey-Syria-Iran;
(4) clarification of the role and future of Kurds in the region, notably the direction that will be taken by Kurdish nationalism taking shape around the PKK and Barzani;
(5) a new position to be taken by Turkey regionally and globally, and the clarification of factors determining whether or not Turkey is to be a global player; (6) a new understanding of the future of the terror problem in Turkey, as well as the dimensions and reality of theoretical “civil war scenarios”; and
(7) a restructuring in Turkey with added clarification on the debates about leadership processes.

Because of this all, it appears that any contemporary over-the-border operation would be different from ones which have taken place in the past, both in terms of targets and general dimensions. We see that concrete signals of this have already begun to appear. Within this framework, then, the recent statements and stances taken by all sides in the matter are extremely interesting.

Recent remarks from top US administration figures such as US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates have insinuated that “the Turkish military should not use force in north Iraq.” However, these are signs that Washington has started to take the situation in Ankara more seriously.

Behind this (new) American stance is the fact that the problem has now gone beyond being just a Turkish problem but is US problem, too. However, Washington is trying to deal with the aggravation by issuing veiled threats. At this point though, Turkey no longer attaches much importance to these veiled threats.

The fact that Turkish Chief of General Staff Gen. Yasar Buyukanit listed not only the PKK and Barzani as elements the armed forces were preparing to deal with in a possible entry into northern Iraq but also the US has been very important in underscoring the fact that the Turkish Armed Forces have calculated all the possibilities of such a venture. It is also an indication that they are not backing away from possible engagement with US forces. Actually, this same stance was expressed during a visit to Washington by Gen. Buyukanit in early 2007 when he said: “For as long as the dynamic forces which protect Turkey are in existence, those who dream of dividing Turkey will awaken to nightmares and will learn their lesson. We have to believe this. We do believe this. No one can divide Turkey, no one would have the courage to do so. We will do what is necessary.” This statement worked not only to demonstrate the Turkish military’s discomfort with developments in Iraq but also to clarify significant steps that might be taken by Turkey in case of certain events.

With developments between the US and Turkey coming to this, how much does Turkey really want to change its axis or follow some sort of independent foreign policy? To put it another way, what really are the dimensions of the problems between Turkey and the US?

From the US perspective, the problem is not actually with Turkey entering into the Iraqi north, but lies more with the manner in which Turkey will enter the region and its possible targets. So what we are really talking about are the contradictions and clashes between US expectations and interests and Turkish targets. If there really is to be a Turkish over-the-border operation, Washington wants it to be executed in harmony with its own regional goals and under its control. However, recent developments point to the likelihood that this process will not unfold as Washington would like it to.

Therefore, the current situation ultimately marks a deep crack in Turkish-American relations. The breaking point of this divide would be Turkish entry into northern Iraq against the wishes of the United States. The US reaction to such an operation and Turkey’s possible stance would herald the entrance of a new regional and global era.

For the US, the real problem with Turkey is the current position reached on a regional and global level, as well as attempts to become a more independent actor with a multidimensional foreign policy. Washington has become uncomfortable with Turkey’s displays of a more independent stance, the attempts to define the agenda, moves to forge new alliances and, as a result, entrance into a new period in the “Turkish-Islamic” world through a venture involving Russia and Iran. Any healthy analysis of Turkish-American relations within the framework of a possible over-the-border operation must also consider the Turkey’s post-Cold War foreign policy and its new state doctrine.

Turkey has been giving signals for a while now regarding this new period entered and the distance gone in implementing its “own project” in the wake of Sept. 11 and various experiences of the post-Cold War period. The respect and esteem achieved by Turkey in the former Ottoman Empire areas following March 1, 2003 have only served to underscore its capacity for changing current regional balances in the future. Some of the recent developments pushing Turkey to the forefront both regionally and globally have been shifts in the Ankara-Damascus-Cairo-Riyadh-Tehran-Islamabad line, the ongoing “New Caucasian Wall” project undertaken with Georgia and Azerbaijan, as well as a series of other future-facing projects.

In the meantime, the relationship developed between Turkey and Russia over the last years should be neither ignored nor chalked up to coincidence. One of the most concrete signs of this relationship came when the Turkish military posted Russian President Vladimir Putin’s infamous “anti-American speech” on its official Web site.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=113312&bolum=109

Maybe there is indeed a chance for Turkey quitting NATO.
No matter what you say, this will begin a new regional order and maybe world order.
The invitation by Putin and Chinese President for Turkey to join SCO is on the table:

Responding to a question from Cihan News Agency, Liu Jianchao, the Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesman, said that although no official application has yet been received from Turkish officials for a position as an observer country, interest from the administration in Ankara is welcome.

“Turkey’s inclusion into the SCO is certain to be appreciated, since this is a transparent organization,” said the spokesman, expressing the organization’s readiness for cooperation as well as coordination with countries such as Turkey.

China has thus followed Russia in its welcome interest for Ankara to join the SCO.

The Turkish Prime Minister expressed his interest in the organization during a January meeting with Putin and asked for support in cooperation with the SCO, which the Russian leader answered positively.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=34037



Turkey is a key piece of real estate stretching from Midlle-East, Caucasus into Europe.
It has 17th largest economy growing around 6% last 4 years, and Military strength in Top-10.
SCO would so stretch from Baltiic to Chinese Pacific and back into European Mediteranean.

Asia is rising, Turkey's roots lie in Central Asia and Turkic countries (Kazakhstan, Kirgizistan, Uzbekistan) are with exception of Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan and Turkey in SCO.
On the other side major colliding of interests with USA since 2003 and NATO-members supporting Terror in Turkey. What can happen in only 4 years with Bush Iraq war, you can even not presume that time in past. Where past is relative=4 years.
But that is the point we are right now.

Terrorists in Iraq give daily a blow to USA long time interest in region.
Turkey moving into Iraq with other interest then USA will cement and speed blow to USA position.
With our buddies Russia and Iran we have anyway no problems.
Relations advance on many levels (security, economy) in same way as relations dropped with USA. Meaning very fast.
And as it seems, our position with China is also more in harmony as our position on regional and global issues with USA:

Land forces commander visits China:

Turkey and the People's Republic of China have parallel views on world matters, said Turkish Land Forces Commander General İlker Başbuğ on Monday. During a meeting with Chinese Defense Minister Cao Gangchuan in Beijing, General Başbuğ expressed admiration for China's economic progress in the past two decades adding that there were similarities in threats faced by the two countries.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=75007

Ilker Basbug will be next Chief of General staff in 15 months and will shape together with legislative body of state foreign policy.

Even Saudi-Arabians want to be buddy of Turkey after Saudi King visiting Turkey after 40 years and Saudi foreign minister speaks of to be established strategic relations.
http://www.saudi-us-relations.org/articles/2006/ioi/060808-saudi-turkey.html

Whole concept of alliance like NATO is shit. There are countries within alliances which act against yourself country.
It is more the thing of keeping friendly to strategic relations with countries like Spain, Germany, Italy, Poland and UK and say to all others byebye and look elsewhere.

USA can keep playing buddy of Kurds in north-Iraq. Or should i say soon to occupied Kurds?
Turkey should look otherwhere, this will automatically lead to manipulation of world clockwork in a direction not positive for USA.

When President Ahmet Necdet Sezer and Chief of General Staff Gen. Yaşar Büyükanıt referred to Turkey as “facing the greatest danger in its entire history” they also pointed to circumstances created by Western “allies.” In his speech at the War Academies Sezer put it bluntly, “The fact that Turkey has not come under the hegemony of the ‘global system’ disturbs the countries of the global system.” The addressee of this is clearly Turkey’s Western allies, including the US and the EU, who according to Sezer want to take Turkey under their hegemony.
In the same speech at the War Academies Sezer accused the US of supporting “moderate Islam” and thus undermining the secular regime in Turkey.
Gen. Büyükanıt has been extremely critical of the EU. In his latest press conference he asserted that “adopting the EU acquis will divide Turkey into pieces.” In the same press conference he also said that in northern Iraq the problem was not Kurdish leader Massoud Barzani, but the power behind him -- implying the US.
The current formation of the Turkish military, its threat perceptions and mindset are fundamentally different from the past. The first post-Cold War generation of officers has reached high posts in the Turkish military. They are more inclined toward a unilateral line of action when it comes to the defense of Turkey. The sense that Turkey has been left alone in its war against the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) is prevalent among these officers. More than this; the Western allies are accused of siding with the PKK instead of supporting Turkey. Thus there has emerged a huge disappointment about the West and its Western allies among the new generation of officers.
In the old days the top appointments for officers seeking promotions were in the NATO headquarter in Brussels, or posts in Western capitals. After serving in various NATO posts it was easier to get to the high posts. But in recent years things have changed. The officers make their career in the fight against the PKK on the field in the Southeast, where they developed an understanding that Western allies are not supportive of Turkey.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazarDetay.do?haberno=111392

This is a very interesting issue to follow in next years.
It is an ongoing slow process. Of course happenings in Turkish part-occupied Iraq will speed up this process.
I think it is like Kathianne said, that Turkey looks otherwhere but surely not Arab world. Despite being oil-rich these countries have nothing to offer to Turkey.
Our direction points to Russia and Central Asia.
Central Asia is also Muslim as well as Turkic like Turkey is.
I think this process can only be stopped according to stance of new USA president.
If he follows same fuck Turkey policy or opens cooperation hands, like John McCain indicated several times in German and Turkish press.

 

[onedomino]

Terrorists in Iraq give daily a blow to USA long time interest in region.
Turkey moving into Iraq with other interest then USA will cement and speed blow to USA position.
With our buddies Russia and Iran we have anyway no problems.
Relations advance on many levels (security, economy) in same way as relations dropped with USA. Meaning very fast.
And as it seems, our position with China is also more in harmony as our position on regional and global issues with USA:

I would say that speaks for itself. Good luck with that, canavar. You will need it. Certainly Russia and Iran will be of much greater economic benefit to Turkey than the EU and US. Right? Hopefully, the leaders of Turkey will show better judgment regarding the future of your country.

 

[ekrem]

I would say that speaks for itself. (...)

Correct, it speaks for itself:

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9054/pk20070607iraktuerkeiik2.jpg

 

[Annie]

Correct, it speaks for itself:

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9054/pk20070607iraktuerkeiik2.jpg

As I said earlier, I don't think the US wishes another war front going, especially not with what was prior to 2002 a valued ally. However, if Turkey indeed tries to occupy Kurdish areas or goes beyond dealing with PKK, I think you may be surprised.

BTW, I think as things stand, it's only a matter of time before Turkey is out of NATO, gives up aspirations of EU and ties to Asian Russian and Middle Eastern alliances. Anyone who doubts that we are entering a world war is just deluding themselves.

 

[ekrem]

Please read. Captures the situation pecisely since i wrote on this board last time. It is not easy to find precise articles in non-turkish language.

TURKEY: Countdown Begins to Crossing into Iraq
Analysis by Jacques N. Couvas

ANKARA, Jul 5 (IPS) - The button of the stopwatch counting down the invasion of Northern Iraq by the Turkish army was probably pressed on Tuesday, at an impromptu meeting between Turkish President Ahmet Necdet Sezer and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

The two men have, in theory, scheduled meetings on Thursdays, which are often not maintained, as they do not see politically eye-to-eye. The surprise meeting on Tuesday has sparked speculation that the assault is near. Cynics, however, say this is just another coup de theatre, which aims at shaking from the shoulders the United States and Iraq, who are clearly opposed to military action against the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK) on Iraqi soil.

False alarms have been almost a routine since the beginning of this year, when the General Staff of the armed forces energetically requested the government's approval to move into Northern Iraq in large numbers in order to avenge the weekly casualties by the army in Eastern Turkey, caused by PKK armed militants stationed in refugee camps and villages in Iraq.

The Turkish army has been drawing plans since last year for a "total clean-up" of that region, but the government has avoided responding clearly. A wait-and-see strategy has prevailed within the Justice and Development Party (AKP), the ruling political formation.

Other events this week corroborate the growing belief that the incursion is near. The U.S. ambassador to Ankara on Monday had to publicly reject in dismay allegations by the Turkish press that his government has been selling weapons to PKK members. The United States, as well as the EU and Turkey, consider this organisation a terrorist one.

General Yasar Buyukanit, head of the General Staff, speaking on Tuesday at a security conference in the Mediterranean resort city of Antalya, criticised the international community for what he claims was lack of foreign understanding for the situation and cooperation with Turkey to "combat Kurdish terrorism" in Iraq directed against his country.

Gen. Buyukanit came out of a short period of silence on the subject, to which he had retreated after Prime Minister Erdogan had in late June declared that he did not plan to allow in the short-term massive military action in the neighbouring country. In Antalya, however, he was outspoken.

"While we maintain our struggle against this terrorist organisation," said Buyukanit referring to the PKK, "and expect international cooperation in this struggle, we are having difficulty understanding some positions and attitudes that we face. These attitudes not only disappoint us but contradict the basic notion that combating terrorism requires better cooperation."

More indicative, perhaps, of the signs of an impending incursion into Iraq by Turkish forces is the recent escape of a small group of PKK members who fled a refugee camp in North Iraq and crossed the border to Turkey to seek asylum.

At a press conference this week, organised by local authorities, they claimed that large numbers of Turkish Kurds were fleeing the region in anticipation of a Turkish advance, and that Turkish artillery was abundantly shelling PKK combatant positions.

There is suspicion, however, among observers that the escape and revelations may have been orchestrated by Turkish security services, within the context of psychological warfare, either to incite PKK activists in Northern Iraq to abandon the region, or to prepare the Turkish opinion for future events. Either way, such incidents and information from "beyond the enemy lines" are typical of pre-intervention activity and carry a message or a warning.

The meeting on Tuesday between the two Turkish leaders also indicates that Erdogan is in a situation where he has either to comply with the military, supported by and supporting Sezer, or face the consequences of his moderate approach to the handling of the Kurdish problem.

Not that long ago, on Jun. 13, the Prime Minister rebuked insistence by the military to cross the border into Iraq. This was consistent with earlier statements of intent to build productive relationships with political chiefs in Northern Iraq rather than punish their constituents for their support to the PKK.

"Steps to improve relations with the regional Kurdish administration might be taken in Northern Iraq, why not; as long as it brings peace and calm and paves way for positive developments. If every step we are to take will bring calm for us and for them, we are game anytime," Erdogan told Hurriyet, a national newspaper, Feb. 15.

The rationale for his decision in June not to authorise the invasion was that the problem was not really PKK presence in Northern Iraq but that of PKK armed activists within his country. "There are 500 terrorists in Iraq; there are 5,000 terrorists inside Turkey. Has terrorism inside Turkey ended for us to think about an operation in Northern Iraq?" he asked.

He was quick to add that the figures he gave were just for the purpose of illustrating where the real issue was.

But Recep Tayyip Erdogan seems to have his back against the wall now -- unless he has lured the President and the opposition on to his turf, a competence at which he excels. On the face of things, Sezer may have put Erdogan before an ultimatum. Either the Prime Minister authorises the invasion or it can be launched without his approval.

Sezer, as President, is commander-in-chief of the armed forces. Article 92 of the Turkish Constitution provides that the President may decide to order the armed forces to take action if the country is attacked while Parliament is in recess.

Parliament is indeed in recess, and the country suffers weekly attacks from Iraq-based guerrillas. The President has therefore free hand to act. Erdogan however, either because he got the message or, likely, because he saw a political opportunity, has been swift to accommodate the hawks and steal the initiative.

It would seem that he is planning to call for an extraordinary parliamentary session to seek approval for cross-border action. This may lead to a "yes" or a "no", but in any event, the people will have decided -- and the military and the President will have to abide by such decision.

Another reason for the government joining hearts with the military is that there is a growing number of AKP candidates and voters who would rather see decisive action against the PKK, regardless of the high cost and medium-to-low chances of success of the operation.

The opposition, particularly the CHP -- the left-wing party founded by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, father of the Turkish republic -- is capitalising on these popular feelings in view of the legislative elections of Jul. 22.

However, the timing for the green light to move into Iraq remains unclear. Launching the operation before the elections -- actually, a few days or hours before Jul. 22 -- could increase Erdogan's popularity. At the same time, it could lead to a postponement of the elections, due to a national emergency, an outcome favourable to CHP and probably sought by Sezer.

In this warm night in Ankara, the bets are open at the terraces of both the popular and fashionable cafés and restaurants of the capital. The gambling now is not on the "if" but on the "when" of the first Turkish shot on Iraqi land.

But the excitement, if any, is not shared by the shopkeepers, hotel owners and restaurateurs around the country. The clicking of rifle triggers and that of cash registers have never been in harmony. For them, the war can wait until the winter.

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=38435


Parliament is in holiday. Turkish elections is in 17 days, on 22th July 2007.
The situation is real complicated, as - former in office - constitution judges are saying, that Turkey in war can not hold elections and whole process would be delayed by one year.
Nevertheless, mainly due to Terrorism becoming No.1 subject in election campaign and Terrorist acts continueing, current government will call parliamentarians from "holiday" on 12th July to authorize cross-boarder operation. Justice and Foreign ministers saying they will vote yes in advance to influence parliamentasrians of current government. Because 150 parliamentarians are not anymore nominated for elections.
But these 150 Parliamntarians will still attend the parliament meeting, as it theoretically is still same legislature period.
Opposition party CHP is supporting such a move anyway.

Parliamentarians are not in holiday, they are in heavy election campaining, but Parliament as an Institution is because of comeing elections in holiday.

Very good, then all this talk the talk will end, and Turkey will have finally made after 4 years a move out of theoretical rhetoric.
Parliament will give Army robust mandate includeing all worst case scenarios, meaning local Iraqi-Kurdish tribes and USA, if they try to interrupt elimination of PKK. Chief of General staff is especially insisting on this, that legislative body of state must include all possibilities in mandate.
Mandate will not be limited by time or geography. It takes what it takes, and when PKK is finished Turkey will establish up to 25 KM buffer-zone in Iraq and will withdraw therein and to own boarder.

But it still is unlikely that Turkish Army will move on 12th July (same day parliament will authorize army) into Iraq.
First elections will be made exactly 10 days later. Last 10 days for USA to show their cooperation.
But it also can be, that Turkey will move into Iraq on same day when parliament gives mandate. I do not know, it is quite complicated because there is a real risk that elections could get delayed. And this situation is not very clear.

But important is to have this important mandate.
It is the ticket to kick some asses:

The US military has supplied weapons to Kurdish militants training in northern Iraq, according to four recent PKK defectors presented to the press Sunday by the Turkish military.

"We have seen that two American armored vehicles brought various weapons to our base at Mount Qandil," one of them said during the press conference, held at a Turkish paramilitary police base in southeastern Sirnak province.
(...)
http://www.iraqslogger.com/index.php/post/3420/PKK_Defectors_Claim_US_Assistance

Also so called President of Iraqi Kurdistan, Barzani, says that Turkey hunting PKK in Iraq will be felt as war and they will give contra. So this Kurdish Rambo will sent his soldiers to protect terrorists.
We will kill them with all Turkish inventory offers.
And Turkish Chief General indicated before intention to eliminate Barzani. And he is right.
With Talabani we have no problem.

Passive Turkey dureing last legislative period (4,5 years) where everyone could tell anything to Turkey or act against Turkey without feraing consequences is definitive over.
The Turk awoke.

You know, it is like a typical summer-evening watching TV in living-room.
You watch TV and those shitty midges and mosquitos fly around your nose and make steadily "zzzzzz" feeling in absolute security because coloss sank into couch.
First they fly in 5 minute interval around your nose, then in 4 minute intervall and so on.
Till the point you stand up SWITCH on the light and smash everything beside you on the wall

P.S: more i have not to say. Will keep you up-to-date on mentioned above dates.

 

[Annie]

Looks like Canavar is calling this correctly:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070709/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_turkey

Iraqi FM: Turkey massing 140,000 troops

By BUSHRA JUHI, Associated Press Writer 52 minutes ago

Turkey has massed 140,000 soldiers on its border with northern Iraq, Iraq's foreign minister said Monday, calling the neighboring country's fears of Kurdish rebels based there "legitimate" but better resolved through negotiation.

The Turkish military had no comment to the remarks by Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, a Kurd from northern Iraq, and it was unclear where he got the figures. If they are accurate, Turkey would have nearly as many soldiers along its border with Iraq as the 155,000 troops which the U.S. has in the country.

Zebari's comments came amid calls by Turkey's military for the government to give it the green light to carry out military operations in northern Iraqi against the rebel Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK.

"Turkey is building up forces on the border. There are 140,000 soldiers fully armed on the border. We are against any military interference or violation of Iraqi sovereignty," Zebari said in Baghdad.

Turkey has been pressuring the United States and Iraq to eliminate PKK bases in Kurdish-controlled parts of northern Iraq and has said it will carry out a cross-border offensive if necessary.

"Turkey's fears are legitimate but such things can be discussed," Zebari said. ""The perfect solution is the withdrawal of the Turkish forces from the borders."

He added: "No one wants a new military conflict in the region."

He said there had been no "Turkey military violation until now," citing artillery shelling and Turkish surveillance overflights.

Pentagon officials said they could not immediately confirm the report from Zebari, and repeated the hope that Turkey would not launch an incursion into Iraq.

...

 

[Annie]

Seems lots of movement going on:

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001483.html

July 09, 2007
Syria Invades Lebanon

By Michael J. Totten
A few days ago Lebanese daily newspaper Al Mustaqbal quietly reported a limited Syrian invasion of Lebanon. (Via Naharnet.)

Syrian troops on Thursday reportedly have penetrated three kilometers into Lebanese territories, taking up positions in the mountains near Yanta in east Lebanon's Bekaa Valley.

The daily Al Mustaqbal, citing sources who confirmed the cross-border penetration, did not say when the procedure in the Fahs Hill overlooking Deir al-Ashaer in the Rashaya province took place.
The sources said Syrian troops, backed by bulldozers, were fortifying positions "in more than one area" along the Lebanese border, erecting earth mounds and digging "hundreds" of trenches and individual bunkers.​

This happened immediately before I left town for two days. When I returned I was surprised to find no mention of this whatsoever anywhere else in the media. I assumed the story had to be false. How could Syria invade three kilometers into any region of Lebanon without triggering a diplomatic and media storm?

So I asked Michael Young, opinion page editor at Beirut’s Daily Star, if the story was bogus.

“It is true,” he said, “but the problem is that the 3 kilometers are in isolated areas, so that it isn't making headlines. However, the UN will be discussing border issues this week, I think, and that will be brought up. The Syrians are ratcheting up the pressure, but with the attack against UN troops in the south, they are, as one UN official put it, playing with fire.”

If Israel sent the IDF three kilometers into Lebanon and started digging trenches and building bunkers it would make news all over the world. But Syria does it and everyone shrugs. Hardly anyone even knows it happened at all.

...

 

[onedomino]

This is cynically related to Turk election politics. The election is 22 July. The PKK is a terror organization and should be suppressed, but it in no way justifies a Turk invasion of Iraq. If such behavior did justify invasion, then the US should have sent cruise missiles flying into downtown Tehran a long time ago. The Turks had their chance to help with Iraq in 2003 and their Muslim led government told us to take our 4th ID and stuff it. Now they want a free hand to come to Iraq and kill Kurds? We should tell the Turks that if they cross the border, then we will cancel their orders for F16 and F-35 fighters and give them to Greece.

 

[hjmick]

Or we could arm the Armenians.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

the kurds need to be protected. Fuck turkey, they are bullies. look historically, the kurds were imprisoned between iran, iraq and turkey in 1919, and should of had their own country for a very long time.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

The turks lie about how they murdered 1.5 million armenians, Fuck turkey.

Or we could arm the Armenians.

 

[ekrem]

As it seems, Eric Edelman, informed last Week US Congress due to legislation process of a joint American-Turkish action in North-Iraq. A man called Novak reported on Washington-Post yesterday about this congress informing by Edelman:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/29/AR2007072900859.html


From Stratfor an analysis about Mid-East and Turkey, showing who is big boss over here !

(...)
The assumption we have consistently made is that, absent the United States, Iran would become the dominant regional power and would be in a position, over the long term, to dominate the Arabian Peninsula, shifting not only the regional balance of power, but potentially the global balance as well.

That analysis assumes that Turkey will play the role it has played since World War I -- an insular, defensive power that is cautious about making alliances and then cautious within alliances. In that role, Turkey is capable of limited assertiveness, as against the Greeks in Cyprus, but is not inclined to become too deeply entangled in the chaos of the Middle Eastern equation -- and when it does become involved, it is in the context of its alliance with the United States.

That is not Turkey's traditional role. Until the fall of the Ottomans at the end of World War I, and for centuries before then, Turkey was both the dominant Muslim power and a major power in North Africa, southeastern Europe and the Middle East. Turkey was the hub of a multinational empire that as far back as the 15th century dominated the Mediterranean and Black seas. It was the economic pivot of three continents, facilitating and controlling the trading system of much of the Eastern Hemisphere.

Turkey's contraction over the past 90 years or so is not the normal pattern in the region, and had to do with the internal crisis in Turkey since the fall of the Ottomans, the emergence of French and British power in the Middle East, followed by American power and the Cold War, which locked Turkey into place. During the Cold War, Turkey was trapped between the Americans and Soviets, and expansion of its power was unthinkable. Since then, Turkey has been slowly emerging as a key power.

One of the key drivers in this has been the significant growth of the Turkish economy. Turkey, in 2006, had the 18th highest gross domestic product (GDP) in the world, and it has been growing at between 5 percent and 8 percent a year for more than five years. It ranks just behind Belgium and ahead of Sweden in GDP. It has the largest economy of any Muslim country -- including Saudi Arabia. And it has done this in spite of, or perhaps because of, not having been admitted to the European Union. While per capita GDP lags, it is total GDP that measures weight in the international system. China, for example, China is 109th in per capita GDP. Its international power rests on it being fourth in total GDP.

Turkey is not China, but in becoming the largest Muslim economy, as well as the largest economy in the eastern Mediterranean, southeastern Europe, the Middle East, the Caucasus and east to the Hindu Kush, Turkey is moving to regain its traditional position of primacy in the region. Its growth is still fragile and can be disrupted, but there is no question that it has become the leading regional economy, as well as one of the most dynamic. Additionally, Turkey's geographic position greatly enables it to become Europe's primary transit hub for energy supplies, especially at a time when Europe is trying to reduce its dependence on Russia.

This obviously has increased its regional influence. In the Balkans, for example, where Turkey historically has been a dominant power, the Turks have again emerged as a major influence over the region's two Muslim states -- and have managed to carve out for themselves a prominent position as regards other countries in the region as well. The country's economic dynamism has helped reorient some of the region away from Europe, toward Turkey. Similarly, Turkish economic influence can be felt elsewhere in the region, particularly as a supplement to its strategic relationship with Israel.

Turkey's problem is that in every direction it faces, its economic expansion is blocked by politico-military friction. So, for example, its influence in the Balkans is blocked by its long-standing friction with Greece. In the Caucasus, it friction with Armenia limits its ability to influence events. Tensions with Syria and Iraq block Syrian influence to the south. To the east, a wary Iran that is ideologically opposed to Turkey blocks Ankara's influence.

As Turkey grows, an interesting imbalance has to develop. The ability of Greece, Armenia, Syria, Iraq and Iran to remain hostile to Turkey decreases as the Turkish economy grows. Ideology and history are very real things, but so is the economic power of a dynamic economy. As important, Turkey's willingness to accept its highly constrained role indefinitely, while its economic -- and therefore political -- influence grows, is limited. Turkey's economic power, coupled with its substantial regional military power, will over time change the balance of power in each of the regions Turkey faces.

Not only does Turkey interface with an extraordinary number of regions, its economy is the major one in each of those regions, while Turkish military power usually is pre-eminent as well. When Turkey develops economically, it develops militarily. It then becomes the leading power -- in many regions. That is what it means to be a pivotal power.
In 2003, the United States was cautious with Turkey, though in the final analysis it was indifferent. It no longer can be indifferent. The United States is now in the process of planning the post-Iraq war era, and even if it does retain permanent bases in Iraq -- dubious for a number of regions -- it will have to have a regional power to counterbalance Iran. Iran has always been aware of and cautious with Turkey, but never as much as now -- while Turkey is growing economically and doing the heavy lifting on the Kurds. Iran does not want to antagonize the Turks.

The United States and Iran have been talking -- just recently engaging in seven hours of formal discussions. But Iran, betting that the United States will withdraw from Iraq, is not taking the talks as seriously as it might. The United States has few levers to use against Iran. It is therefore not surprising that it has reached out to the biggest lever.

In the short run, Turkey, if it works with the United States, represents a counterweight to Iran, not only in general, but specifically in Iraq. From the American point of view, a Turkish invasion of northern Iraq would introduce a major force native to the region that certainly would give Iran pause in its behavior in Iraq. This would mean the destruction of Kurdish hopes for independence, though the United States has on several past occasions raised and then dashed Kurdish hopes. In this sense, Novak's article makes a great deal of sense. The PKK would provide a reasonable excuse for a Turkish intervention in Iraq, both in the region and in Turkey. Anything that blocks the Kurds will be acceptable to the Turkish public, and even Iran.

It is the longer run that is becoming interesting, however. If the United States is not going to continue playing its role of counterbalancing Iran in the region, then it is in Turkey's interest to do so. It also is increasingly within Turkey's reach. But it must be understood that, given geography, the growth of Turkish power will not be confined to one direction. A powerful and self-confident Turkey has a geographical position that inevitably reflects all the regions that pivot around it.

For the past 90 years, Turkey has not played its historic role. Now, however, economic and politico-military indicators point to Turkey's slow reclamation of that role. The rumors about Turkish action against the PKK have much broader significance. They point to a changing role for Turkey -- and that will mean massive regional changes over time.
http://www.stratfor.com/products/premium/read_article.php?id=293204

 

[ekrem]

Of course we do not have only the biggest Economy, based on not haveing any oil ressources.
But also we have biggest navy, bigger even of Saudi-Arabia and Iran combined. Also biggest Airforce except Israel.

After the US Air Forces, the Turkish Air Forces have the highest number of F-16 aircraft in the world.
(...)
In addition, the air operation conducted during the Kosova crisis has displayed that the Turkish Air Forces, after the US, is the only Air Force, which can conduct night operations.

http://www.tsk.mil.tr/eng/genel_konular/kuvvetyapisi.htm
Even in NATO action against Yugoslavia only US and Turkish airforce were able to fly night bombings.

During this campaign, Turkish F-16s have set a world CAP record by patrolling for 9 hours and 22 minutes above the Balkan theatre. Normal CAP missions last between 3 and 4 hours.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article21.html
After US pilots Turkish pilots have most fly hours with F-16:
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_pilots_airforce-TUAF.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_pilots.html

Armed forces branch is anyway out of question:

At a short notice, Turkish Army can deploy an Army Corps of 40 (forty) or 50.000 (fifty thousand) troops to conduct joint operations. It can deploy a force consisting of six battalions to distant targets in a very short time by day and night air-landed operations.

http://www.tsk.mil.tr/eng/genel_konular/kuvvetyapisi.htm


Besides that allready 200.000 soldiers are on Iraq border, this means 1/4th of whole Turkish army. Of course this is not big effort because Iraq is our neighbour. To our neighbours we theoretically can invade with up to 800.000 soldiers, representing NATO's 2nd biggest standing force.
But theoretical Turkey can invade Non-Neighbours with up to 50.000 soldiers within days for example Serbia, Romania or whatever.
Not much countries can mass such sizes of troops in short period.
UK, Russia, China, USA etc. and Turkey can.

1. United States
2. Russia
3. China
...
...
...
7. Turkey
...
...
...
16. Iran
17. Egypt
...
...
...
22. Saudi-Arabia

http://www.globalfirepower.com/
+
http://www.strategypage.com/fyeo/howtomakewar/databases/armies/e.asp




From
Center for European Security Studies (CSS) in Netehrlands.

(...)
The majority of the Turks attach more value to the family, local community and/or the nation than to the individual. These mindsets are reinforced by the education system, which teaches Turkish children to love the motherland, ‘to be a Turk’ and that the military is the ideal embodiment of Turkishness. Children are told in schools and by their parents that all heroes in Turkish society are warriors, that the military is the symbol of national unity and that ‘every Turk is born as a soldier’. The strong relationship between the military and public is reinforced by compulsory service, as this is considered by most Turks as a holy duty.

http://www.cess.org/publications/harmoniepapers/pdfs/HarmoniePaper19.pdf

 

[Gunny]

The majority of the Turks attach more value to the family, local community and/or the nation than to the individual. These mindsets are reinforced by the education system, which teaches Turkish children to love the motherland, ‘to be a Turk’ and that the military is the ideal embodiment of Turkishness. Children are told in schools and by their parents that all heroes in Turkish society are warriors, that the military is the symbol of national unity and that ‘every Turk is born as a soldier’. The strong relationship between the military and public is reinforced by compulsory service, as this is considered by most Turks as a holy duty.

Y'all wear swastikas too?

 

[Annie]

Y'all wear swastikas too?

I think the Canavar quote comes close to the perfect example of nationalism v. patriotism.