Trump’s Moment of Truth. Will Mueller Flip Cohen?

[Missouri_Mike]

View attachment 187282

Ya know who’s enjoying these raids, indictments guilty pleas and Trump tearing out his hair transplants?

During your furious jacking off during this have you considered that the law no longer applies to people like us? If the government prosecutors can now eliminate attorney client confidentiality for the president of the US? What does that mean for you? This pretty much will roll down hill and makes the government unstoppable in their zeal to prosecute anyone for anything. If they get their hooks into you they no longer have to prove a case, they just raid your lawyers office and cherry pick the notes they need to get the result they want. When this is ok at the very top levels of government shit rolls down hill from there. So it sure looks like this country will no longer be a republic. But it will be run by the FBI and special prosecutors who will determine who's lawyers they will raid, and of course those favorable political lawyers they like, won't be.

You dems worried about a constitutional crisis with Trump. And then you created one all by your lonesome.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

They’re a team, obummer, Clinton, Comey, muleface and Rosenstein.

None of their lawyers offices are being raided.

 

[eagle1462010]

They’re a team, obummer, Clinton, Comey, muleface and Rosenstein.

None of their lawyers offices are being raided.

Of course not...........the Swamp is on their side..................

knock knock........hang on...........oh it's the IRS here to audit me because of my views...........LOL

 

[Reasonable]

I think Mueller will be able to flip Cohen. Why would he be willing to go to jail for DT?
Cohen has to have a treasure trove of illegal things Trump has done.
He’s not called the FIXER for nothing. Cohen will have to think of his career and family.
Spill the beans on the Trump Crime family.
No mercy.

 

[WillowTree]

I think Mueller will be able to flip Cohen. Why would he be willing to go to jail for DT?
Cohen has to have a treasure trove of illegal things Trump has done.
He’s not called the FIXER for nothing. Cohen will have to think of his career and family.
Spill the beans on the Trump Crime family.
No mercy.

What are the crimes?

 

[DustyInfinity]

The only way I see Cohen flipping is if the dems threaten to kill family members. Are the dem posters on here ok with that? Anything to win right. You don't have a problem with the false pretenses of how the investigation started, or using a porn star to sack a lawyer. Why not just start killing off family members. Yay team.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The only way I see Cohen flipping is if the dems threaten to kill family members. Are the dem posters on here ok with that? Anything to win right. You don't have a problem with the false pretenses of how the investigation started, or using a porn star to sack a lawyer. Why not just start killing off family members. Yay team.

Of course dems would be okay with threats to kill Cohen's family. The ends justify the means remember.

 

[Care4all]

Unlikely. Cohen will stubbornly refuse to save himself. In his attempts to martyr himself for Trump, he will sing like a bird, too stupid to realize he's handing the cops everything they want to hear.

Cohen will stubbornly refuse to save himself.

Were I in Cohen's position -- being an attorney living a very pricey lifestyle, having accustomed my family to the same lavish lifestyle, having to support my family regardless of the lifestyle, and knowing that my ability to practice law may be revoked -- I damn sure wouldn't fall on my sword myself for Trump, especially when it's Trump's "sword" and my efforts to shield his dumbass form the consequences of his own stupidity, ignorance, wantonness and carelessness that got me into the mess into which I now find myself.

In his attempts to martyr himself for Trump, he will sing like a bird, too stupid to realize he's handing the cops everything they want to hear.

For whatever I think about Cohen, I doubt seriously he's that stupid. If he's doing that, he's well aware he's doing it.

I just don't see what Cohen can fall on the sword for....??? He's in trouble with campaign finance laws whether President Trump was aware of it or not, isn't he?

 

[Stormy Daniels]

Unlikely. Cohen will stubbornly refuse to save himself. In his attempts to martyr himself for Trump, he will sing like a bird, too stupid to realize he's handing the cops everything they want to hear.

Cohen will stubbornly refuse to save himself.

Were I in Cohen's position -- being an attorney living a very pricey lifestyle, having accustomed my family to the same lavish lifestyle, having to support my family regardless of the lifestyle, and knowing that my ability to practice law may be revoked -- I damn sure wouldn't fall on my sword myself for Trump, especially when it's Trump's "sword" and my efforts to shield his dumbass form the consequences of his own stupidity, ignorance, wantonness and carelessness that got me into the mess into which I now find myself.

In his attempts to martyr himself for Trump, he will sing like a bird, too stupid to realize he's handing the cops everything they want to hear.

For whatever I think about Cohen, I doubt seriously he's that stupid. If he's doing that, he's well aware he's doing it.

I just don't see what Cohen can fall on the sword for....??? He's in trouble with campaign finance laws whether President Trump was aware of it or not, isn't he?

He's not going to "fall on his sword". I just don't think he's going to deal, even if he's given the chance. To be honest, I don't know they'll offer him any deals.

 

[del]

During your furious jacking off during this have you considered that the law no longer applies to people like us? If the government prosecutors can now eliminate attorney client confidentiality for the president of the US? What does that mean for you? This pretty much will roll down hill and makes the government unstoppable in their zeal to prosecute anyone for anything. If they get their hooks into you they no longer have to prove a case, they just raid your lawyers office and cherry pick the notes they need to get the result they want. When this is ok at the very top levels of government shit rolls down hill from there. So it sure looks like this country will no longer be a republic. But it will be run by the FBI and special prosecutors who will determine who's lawyers they will raid, and of course those favorable political lawyers they like, won't be.

You dems worried about a constitutional crisis with Trump. And then you created one all by your lonesome.

unwad your bloomers, sally

no one has eliminated anyone's attorney-client privilege

1. According to Cohen's own lawyer, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York (widely regarded within itself as being the most important and prestigious U.S. Attorney's Office in the country) secured the search warrants for the FBI, based on a referral from Robert Mueller's office. Assuming this report is correct, that means that a very mainstream U.S. Attorney's Office—not just Special Counsel Robert Mueller's office—thought that there was enough for a search warrant here.


2. Moreover, it's not just that the office thought that there was enough for a search warrant. They thought there was enough for a search warrant of an attorney's office for that attorney's client communications. That's a very fraught and extraordinary move that requires multiple levels of authorization within the Department of Justice. The U.S. Attorney's Manual (USAM)—at Section 9-13.320—contains the relevant policies and procedures. The highlights:


The feds are only supposed to raid a law firm if less intrusive measures won't work. As the USAM puts it:


In order to avoid impinging on valid attorney-client relationships, prosecutors are expected to take the least intrusive approach consistent with vigorous and effective law enforcement when evidence is sought from an attorney actively engaged in the practice of law. Consideration should be given to obtaining information from other sources or through the use of a subpoena, unless such efforts could compromise the criminal investigation or prosecution, or could result in the obstruction or destruction of evidence, or would otherwise be ineffective.


Such a search requires high-level approval. The USAM requires such a search warrant to be approved by the U.S. attorney—the head of the office, a presidential appointee—and requires "consultation" with the Criminal Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. This is not a couple of rogue AUSAs sneaking in a warrant.


Such a search requires an elaborate review process. The basic rule is that the government may not deliberately seize, or review, attorney-client communications. The USAM—and relevant caselaw—therefore require the feds to set up a review process. That process might involve a judge reviewing the materials to separate out what is privileged (or what might fall within an exception to the privilege), or else set up a "dirty team" that does the review but is insulated from the "clean team" running the investigation. Another option is a "special master," an experienced and qualified third-party attorney to do the review. Sometimes the reviewing team will only be identifying and protecting privileged material. Sometimes the reviewing team will be preparing to seek, or to implement, a court ruling that the documents are not privileged. (Robert Mueller is aggressive on this sort of thing; he already sought and obtained a court ruling that some of Paul Manafort's communications with his lawyers were not privileged because they were undertaken for the purpose of fraud—the so-called "crime-fraud exception" to the attorney-client privilege.)


3. A magistrate judge signed off on this. Federal magistrate judges (appointed by local district judges, not by the president) review search warrant applications. A magistrate judge therefore reviewed this application and found probable cause—that is, probable cause to believe that the subject premises (Cohen's office) contains specified evidence of a specified federal crime. Now, magistrate judges sometimes are a little too rubber-stampy for my taste (notably, recall the time that a magistrate judge signed off on a truly ludicrous gag order forbidding Reason from revealing that it had been served with a subpoena for information identifying commenters). But here, where the magistrate judge knew that this would become one of the most scrutinized search warrant applications ever, and because the nature of the warrant of an attorney's office is unusual, you can expect that the magistrate judge felt pretty confident that there was enough there.


4. The search warrant application (the lengthy narrative from the FBI agent setting for the evidence) is almost certainly still under seal, and even Michael Cohen doesn't get to see it (yet). But the FBI would have left the warrant itself—and that shows (1) the federal criminal statutes they were investigating, and (2) the list of items they wanted to seize. Much can be learned for those. Assuming Michael Cohen doesn't release it, watch for it to be leaked.

Feds Raid Office of Trump Lawyer Who Paid Off Stormy Daniels. This Is a Big Deal.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Unlikely. Cohen will stubbornly refuse to save himself. In his attempts to martyr himself for Trump, he will sing like a bird, too stupid to realize he's handing the cops everything they want to hear.

Cohen will stubbornly refuse to save himself.

Were I in Cohen's position -- being an attorney living a very pricey lifestyle, having accustomed my family to the same lavish lifestyle, having to support my family regardless of the lifestyle, and knowing that my ability to practice law may be revoked -- I damn sure wouldn't fall on my sword myself for Trump, especially when it's Trump's "sword" and my efforts to shield his dumbass form the consequences of his own stupidity, ignorance, wantonness and carelessness that got me into the mess into which I now find myself.

In his attempts to martyr himself for Trump, he will sing like a bird, too stupid to realize he's handing the cops everything they want to hear.

For whatever I think about Cohen, I doubt seriously he's that stupid. If he's doing that, he's well aware he's doing it.

I just don't see what Cohen can fall on the sword for....??? He's in trouble with campaign finance laws whether President Trump was aware of it or not, isn't he?

Well, about the only way I can think of whereby he might do that is if he's offered a plea deal that includes his giving testimony/evidence against or about Trump or the Trump campaign, campaign staffers, campaign events, Russians, etc.

He's in trouble with campaign finance laws whether President Trump was aware of it or not, isn't he?

Assuming he's actually committed a felony of some sort, maybe. It's not clear to me that he's violated campaign finance laws, but it does look as though he has. The thing is that it's been reported that FBI agents confiscated content that has nothing to do with the Daniels payment. That suggests to me that something other than campaign finance violations may be among the things they're investigating. It also makes it possible that the matter giving rise to Cohen's being served a search warrant may not have to do with Cohen, though that's something of a long shot possibility.

Remember, we don't know whether there's probative evidence that he has, and right now, though the FBI thinks he has evidence indicating he or someone did, they don't know that he has either. What we know right now is:

• The FBI think Cohen had in his possession material evidence of a felony's having been committed. That's it.

Unless and until there is an indictment, we won't know:

• Who is the alleged perpetrator.
• What crime is alleged to have been committed.

I know what yesterday's events (the search) look like and imply, and I'm not about to deny or discount what they suggest, but that doesn't actually make it be what it looks like, no matter how strong the likelihood. I know too I can't logically force what yesterday's events look like to a conclusion that they are something ore or less than what they are. After all, what we're talking about is criminal, not political, matter. Thus, Cohen, like everyone, deserves as much benefit of the doubt ("presumption of innocence" to use the formal term for it) as the available information allows, but not more than the available information allows.

Let me be clear: I don't really care whether Cohen is innocent or guilty. That is what it is, and we'll all find out soon enough what it is. What interests me as goes Cohen, is that his case may impede his ability to aide Trump, forcing Trump to find different representation. It's hard to find lawyers as "shady" as Cohen seems to have been and as willing to compromise themselves on a client's behalf as Cohen appears to have been. Inasmuch as I cannot stand Trump -- other than that to one's face he's affable, I think he's about the lowest form of human that can exist -- and anything that puts him in a personal bind, great or small, is a good thing IMO. I welcome every last such happenstance (short of physical harm) of that sort.

 

[Aldo Raine]

Unpossible, Cohen is a pitbull! No prosecutors have a chance against this streetfighting pitbull!

You’re kidding, right?
Mueller is now looking at every dirty thing Cohen has ever done. If Mueller has strong evidence, what’s Cohen going to do?
Bite the prosecutor’s ankles?

Of course I am kidding, if he is working with Rump he is a giant snowflake and a blowhard.

 

[Witchit]

It’s cute how cons are torn between calling this a nothing burger, and soiling themselves in a spectacular fashion.

 

[gipper]

Unlikely. Cohen will stubbornly refuse to save himself. In his attempts to martyr himself for Trump, he will sing like a bird, too stupid to realize he's handing the cops everything they want to hear.

Cohen will stubbornly refuse to save himself.

Were I in Cohen's position -- being an attorney living a very pricey lifestyle, having accustomed my family to the same lavish lifestyle, having to support my family regardless of the lifestyle, and knowing that my ability to practice law may be revoked -- I damn sure wouldn't fall on my sword myself for Trump, especially when it's Trump's "sword" and my efforts to shield his dumbass form the consequences of his own stupidity, ignorance, wantonness and carelessness that got me into the mess into which I now find myself.

In his attempts to martyr himself for Trump, he will sing like a bird, too stupid to realize he's handing the cops everything they want to hear.

For whatever I think about Cohen, I doubt seriously he's that stupid. If he's doing that, he's well aware he's doing it.

I just don't see what Cohen can fall on the sword for....??? He's in trouble with campaign finance laws whether President Trump was aware of it or not, isn't he?

Well, about the only way I can think of whereby he might do that is if he's offered a plea deal that includes his giving testimony/evidence against or about Trump or the Trump campaign, campaign staffers, campaign events, Russians, etc.

He's in trouble with campaign finance laws whether President Trump was aware of it or not, isn't he?

Assuming he's actually committed a felony of some sort, maybe. It's not clear to me that he's violated campaign finance laws, but it does look as though he has. The thing is that it's been reported that FBI agents confiscated content that has nothing to do with the Daniels payment. That suggests to me that something other than campaign finance violations may be among the things they're investigating. It also makes it possible that the matter giving rise to Cohen's being served a search warrant may not have to do with Cohen, though that's something of a long shot possibility.

Remember, we don't know whether there's probative evidence that he has, and right now, though the FBI thinks he has evidence indicating he or someone did, they don't know that he has either. What we know right now is:

• The FBI think Cohen had in his possession material evidence of a felony's having been committed. That's it.

Unless and until there is an indictment, we won't know:

• Who is the alleged perpetrator.
• What crime is alleged to have been committed.

I know what yesterday's events (the search) look like and imply, and I'm not about to deny or discount what they suggest, but that doesn't actually make it be what it looks like, no matter how strong the likelihood. I know too I can't logically force what yesterday's events look like to a conclusion that they are something ore or less than what they are. After all, what we're talking about is criminal, not political, matter. Thus, Cohen, like everyone, deserves as much benefit of the doubt ("presumption of innocence" to use the formal term for it) as the available information allows, but not more than the available information allows.

Let me be clear: I don't really care whether Cohen is innocent or guilty. That is what it is, and we'll all find out soon enough what it is. What interests me as goes Cohen, is that his case may impede his ability to aide Trump, forcing Trump to find different representation. It's hard to find lawyers as "shady" as Cohen seems to have been and as willing to compromise themselves on a client's behalf as Cohen appears to have been. Inasmuch as I cannot stand Trump -- other than that to one's face he's affable, I think he's about the lowest form of human that can exist -- and anything that puts him in a personal bind, great or small, is a good thing IMO. I welcome every last such happenstance (short of physical harm) of that sort.

Clearly Mueller has been working hard to find dirt on anyone associated with Trump, and Trump himself. His investigation is not limited to the absurd Russia/Trump collusion, which was the initial point of his appointment.

When a zealous prosecutor has unlimited power to investigate people, he will find something. Show me the man...I will show you the crime....Isn't America GREAT?

It is said Americans on average break the law three times a day, unknowingly. This is because our criminal government has instituted so many stupid laws, many of which are hard to decipher. Now...imagine those around Trump, powerful people with lots of money...no doubt they have broken the law in some fashion or another.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

I predict we'll still be hearing about 'Trump's Moment of Truth' for the next six years.

I predict that it'll be interesting to learn how history teachers teach this moment in history to middle and high school students.....

I'd love to be a "fly on the wall" watching them and school boards wade their way through explaining to "Little Johnny" what porn stars and Playmates are and how the POTUS of the U.S. got himself entangled with at least one of each so as to bring scandal (perhaps more) upon himself.

Apparently Mullier has found nothing linking the President with Russian collusion to begin impeachment proceedings, the special council hasn’t been able to charge Trump with obstruction (especially since Rod Rosenstein, who started this whole investigation, recommended that Comey be fired in a memo), so legal teams turn to a porn star who admits to profiting from the publicity of an investigation. So what crime is illedged to have been committed to justify breaking attorney client prriviledge, over personal information that hasn’t been deleted or bleach bit?

 

[usmbguest5318]

I predict we'll still be hearing about 'Trump's Moment of Truth' for the next six years.

I predict that it'll be interesting to learn how history teachers teach this moment in history to middle and high school students.....

I'd love to be a "fly on the wall" watching them and school boards wade their way through explaining to "Little Johnny" what porn stars and Playmates are and how the POTUS of the U.S. got himself entangled with at least one of each so as to bring scandal (perhaps more) upon himself.

Apparently Mullier has found nothing linking the President with Russian collusion to begin impeachment proceedings, the special council hasn’t been able to charge Trump with obstruction (especially since Rod Rosenstein, who started this whole investigation, recommended that Comey be fired in a memo), so legal teams turn to a porn star who admits to profiting from the publicity of an investigation. So what crime is illedged to have been committed to justify breaking attorney client prriviledge, over personal information that hasn’t been deleted or bleach bit?

Apparently Mullier has found nothing linking the President with Russian collusion to begin impeachment proceedings

I'm sure he didn't and I'm sure he won't. That's not what he's looking for. While it does happen that one can stumble across things for which one isn't looking, it's not typical that one'll stumble across really big things that one isn't looking for.

Mueller's a criminal prosecutor who's been charged to ferret out crimes. He's not a member or agent of the U.S. Congress. Impeachment is a political process, not a criminal one. (Unless one happens to mean "impeach" in the broad sense whereby it's merely a synonym for "charge.") Impeachment by the House and conviction by the Senate does nothing other than remove one from an appointed or elected office. That's it. There is no criminal penalty associated with that process.

Google will return 100,000 answers. An investigator will return the best one...
-- Xelor​

 

[TemplarKormac]

You know this type of lawless presidency isn’t normal don’t you. Even Richard Nixon would cringe and be appalled if he could see what’s happening.

The federal investigation into the president’s personal attorney changes the legal and political calculus for Trump, Mueller, and Cohen. “As things heat up, the next big thing will be a shift from things like ‘What was the Russian involvement in the campaign?’ to ‘Has the cover-up begun and where is it?’”

The dramatic F.B.I. raid executed Monday against Michael Cohen, the president’s personal attorney, marks a turning point in the Justice Department’s investigations into Donald Trump and his associates. As Trump noted Tuesday morning, in his own madcap way, attorney-client privilege is a cornerstone of the U.S. legal system. For federal agents to have searched Cohen’s apartment, office, and hotel room, prosecutors must have convinced a judge that a raid was necessary to obtain evidence of a crime that Cohen might have attempted to hide or destroy if he was issued a subpoena. The implications, for Cohen and for Trump, are potentially explosive. “I suppose you could say that it is Trump’s moment of truth,” Bob Bauer, the former Obama White House general counsel, told me. “It is the red line he always seemed to draw in his bitter complaints about the Mueller investigation—now here we are. Cohen would not be a subject or target that Trump would wish to have flipped against him.”

To those of you who are still unclear why and how the raid happened and it’s ramifications, this article is a nice summary.

““Trump’s Moment of Truth”: Will Mueller Flip Cohen? — Vanity Fair

The only thing that seems to be flipping here is you.

 

[usmbguest5318]

So what crime is illedged to have been committed to justify breaking attorney client prriviledge

It's not even clear to me that attorney-client privilege been broken. AFAIK, the DoJ sent in a "tait team" to execute the search warrant. According to Cohen, the team that conducted the search were respectful. Cohen's certainly not griping about what they took or how they comported themselves, so I have no reason to think they violated attorney-client privilege.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

So what crime is illedged to have been committed to justify breaking attorney client prriviledge

It's not even clear to me that attorney-client privilege been broken. AFAIK, the DoJ sent in a "tait team" to execute the search warrant. According to Cohen, the team that conducted the search were respectful. Cohen's certainly not griping about what they took or how they comported themselves, so I have no reason to think they violated attorney-client privilege.

Can you perhaps provide when a Federal Government raises the house of a personal attorney representing a client under investigation? You can uncover substantial evidence without crossing legal boundaries of an agency working in collaboration with a special council, a council that has no oversight. Mullier had an original mandate that focuses around the time of presidential election and with regard to collusion effecting the outcome of an election, he has exceeeded that boundary to go into personal affairs prior to an individual seeking involvement in the political process.

 

[dannyboys]

Suuuuuure Cohen kept incriminating records laying around in his office/home/temporary residence (while his home is being renovated.)
Suuuure he kept incriminating records on his computers/cell phones.
Cohen had no idea that it was 100% possible that he would be raided by Mueller.
Cohen probably bought the first document shredder ever made.
Cohen is going to tell Mueller to stick his witch hunt up his ass!
President Trump WILL pardon Cohen and Flynn and let the 'coffee boy' rot in prison.