Trump's Dieselgate?: How The GOP/BigOil Powers Intend To Smash Efficient Cars Again

[g5000]

If anything, Trump and his boss Putin want higher oil prices. Low oil prices are crushing Russia's economy, and putting a crimp in Vlad's imperialist plans. And our new secretary of State, the CEO of Exxon, also wants higher oil prices.

 

[Silhouette]

If anything, Trump and his boss Putin want higher oil prices. Low oil prices are crushing Russia's economy, and putting a crimp in Vlad's imperialist plans. And our new secretary of State, the CEO of Exxon, also wants higher oil prices.

Yes, but not until after they've forced the US public to only be able to buy SUVs.

Notice all new car ads you see. NOTICE THEM. What do you see? Each one I've seen is a large luxury car (gas hog) or SUV (gas hog). BOYCOTT GAS HOGS. Unless you absolutely go offroading frequently (in which case you're not going to buy GM or Chevy anyway because of their inferior products in this regard...ask around with mechanics..."initial quality" doesn't go the distance off road), buy nothing but an economical commuter car. And, bother your car dealers for smaller cars. Go up to them and talk about the gas hogs in their lot and say "gee if you just had some economical diesel or hybrid commuters in here I'd sign the sale today...but...oh well..." and then walk away.

If enough people do this, Detroit will get the message. I pity the manufacturer who spends all that cash retooling their templates, thinking gas hog SUVs are going to fly off the sales lots. People have already sat down and been figuring out for the last 9 years how to chisel down their fuel budget each month. Y'all think they're going to develop a new romance with 12-15mpg highway? You're high on drugs folks.

 

[Silhouette]

The days of "honey we need a bigger SUV than the neighbors!" are gone friends.....the depression-budgets have long been ensconced as a family icon. Now the realistic competition is "I get 50mpg highway"..."well I get 55!"...and so on.

In fact, this colossal blunder in Detroit's latest sales-pitch will almost certainly be the last nail in the economy coffin. We can't bail them out again after their gas hogs don't sell either locally or overseas. And all that money they're pouring right now as we speak into these new/old designs is money going straight down the toilet. Which will eventually topple the US economy as Trickle-down-stupidity/immediate greed makes it's way outward as ripples in our manufacturing pond. I half wonder what kind of deal Tillerson and Putin struck, come to think of it..

The days of the big clunker gas-hog "commuter cars" are O-V-E-R. Breathe it in Detroit. If you make this mistake it will kill the US economy where we otherwise would be cleaning up selling small affordable diesels or electrics or hybrids here and in Europe/Asia. No market or dozens of markets. Your choice...

 

[Silhouette]

I really can't overstate the economic slant of this thread. The automotive industry is the lifeblood of our country. If we are to recover in foreign markets, this is the one way we can. Everyone knows the spinoff industries will spark massive manufacturing in parts and accessories. Yet are BigOil/Detroit bigwigs are gearing us up to buy SUVs and to produce them for sale here and abroad. Why? To use more oil cuz that way they get richer.

But this is an extremely short-sided profit model. If at all. As I said, if you go retooling your factories to pump out big clunker gas hogs and they sit gathering dust at the car lot (because for a decade now, families have trained themselves to get and drive super-economical cars), this could destroy our economy. And Detroit's profits. We simply can't afford to bail out anymore of their STUPID engineering blunders.

Why not make super efficient diesel, hybrid & electric cars and instead pitch the ads to have Americans drive further, go out and explore other areas more? That way they'll still use a lot of fuel. There just isn't enough of the American family monthly pie for BigOil to carve out a huge slice in commuter fuel again. Those days are over. And if we aren't selling cars to Europe & Asia, the only kind they want: (small affordable commuter diesels, hybrids & electric), how is our economy going to recover? How? By selling them more corn?

American families are getting squeezed on wages, squeezed on groceries, squeezed on healthcare, squeezed on sundries, now squeezed on mortgage rates...and Detroit's solution to longevity in this climate is to make cars that get terrible fuel mileage for these people to get to work and back? I'm tellin' ya, they'll ride bicycles and commuter buses & trains before most families will pony up the $$large to buy the SUVs then the $$large in the monthly fuel budget. At some point Detroit is going to have to sit down and get real about the ACTUAL economy of the American consumer.

You're welcome.

 

[Silhouette]

Ah, they even pressured Britain last year...so the industrial sabotage isn't just limited to Germany's VW....

Ministers have rejected mounting calls for a diesel car scrappage scheme to help tackle air pollution, claiming it would be ineffective and prohibitively expensive.....
"A national scrappage scheme cannot guarantee reductions in emissions as effectively as other alternatives," he said.

"This is because air quality issues are often localised and can be managed in other ways." Ministers reject diesel scrappage scheme as 'ineffective and expensive'

Seems like they smelled the BigOil influence. Maybe the Brits are good at math? A gas car getting 12mpg takes four times as much fuel to commute as a clean diesel or biodiesel. Refined gas costs over $6 gallon in Britain. Think how they'd impoverish their countrymen by forcibly recalling their literal means of getting around the countryside. Sure, trick Britain into scrapping their army of little efficient diesel cars so they'll have to buy new gas hog American SUVs. Didn't work because the Brits have a keen sense of national cohesion and put that above just a few dudes getting rich at the expense of the many.

So the big weak gas hog SUVs we're currently pushing aren't going to sell in Britain. And they aren't going to sell anywhere else either. Trump needs to take a deeper look at what Detroit plans to sell the world & domestic market. And he'd better budget for bailing them out again if they keep on the same trajectory (downward).

 

[danielpalos]

should automakers simply emphasize, safer cars with diesel? it may be a consideration with some people. commute range is another factor.

 

[Silhouette]

should automakers simply emphasize, safer cars with diesel? it may be a consideration with some people. commute range is another factor.

"Safer"? Diesels are no less safe than gas cars. In fact, gasoline is far more instantly flammable than diesel; more explosively so too.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

BigOil is headhunding. Trump will help them every inch of the way. Got to wonder who inspired VW in Germany to flub the emissions thing.

1. They are pushing out small diesel passenger cars that get 50-70 mpg. I strongly suspect industrial sabotage on the VW diesel small passenger imports.

***********
Thanks to their good fuel economy, diesel cars have remained popular in Europe, where fuel is two to three times more expensive than in America, and oil refineries are optimised to produce a plentiful supply of diesel. The diesel’s efficiency stems from not having to throttle the engine to control its speed. It therefore has none of the “pumping losses” that hobble petrol engines. Add the fact that diesel fuel packs 10% more energy than gasoline, and it easy to see why diesels can be 30% more efficient than their petrol equivalents.

They have other virtues, too. Like electric motors, diesels generate oodles of low-end torque, making them quick off the mark and more relaxing to drive. Also, their sturdiness—necessitated by having to cope with much higher cylinder pressures—gives them an enviable reputation for durability. For good reason, truckers swear by diesels. Long-distance rigs can easily put in 100,000 miles (160,000km) a year, and run for a million miles or more before needing an overhaul.

Large diesel cars and luxury SUVs share many of the same virtues. But with their high sticker prices, they can absorb the cost of the additional processing needed to clean up their polluting exhausts. Bigger vehicles also have the space to install the gear that does this. By comparison, making small, lightweight diesels for family cars is a serious challenge. The sleight of hand could be pulled off in Europe—where diesel cars account for half of all new vehicles bought—only because emission standards there have been so lax. The dieselgate dilemma

***********

OK, "lax" emissions standards in all those very clean-air countries in Europe. Something's not adding up...

2. They are making the idea of 4wd passenger cars vogue again....that only run on gas...which are the most inefficient types of cars there are. Welcome back 15-20 mpg... again. I guess that that will result in a new profit tidal wave for BigOil is merely a coincidence...

You will see bigger cars, more clunky looking cars (the more boxy their nose looks, the worse gas mileage they get). This is what dumb America is being groomed to accept. Only you can insist that your car be streamlined and efficient.

I guess the idea that diesel fuel lends itself perfectly to being combined with bio oils where fuels can be produced cheaply using algae and other forms of biomass just doesn't sit well with BigOil. So diesel is being demonized.

If one car requires 1/3 the fuel to go the same distance as another car, whose emissions are also not good for the environment, which car should you buy? And, if one of them can use fuel at 1/3 the amount of the other and cut that fuel with a biologically-grown source, which car should you buy? Consider our involvement in the Middle East before you answer that question..

How is it that Europe (& Japan) is driving the hell out of small diesel passenger cars while maintaining their reputation for pristine clean air in their towns and countrysides? Something ain't adding up.. Once again BigOil positions itself to crush its competition.

BigOil forced owners to return their cars to be crushed & sit in piles in the desert. Here's what BigOil does to efficient competition: (pile of crushed 2000 Chevy volts after a forced recall).

Some of the most fun I ever had behind the wheel, was in my supercharged gas guzzlers

 

[Silhouette]

Some of the most fun I ever had behind the wheel, was in my supercharged gas guzzlers

Those were the days, right? So you must hate the newer big gas cars that they purposefully underpower in order to keep them gobbling gas... The only car VW is now allowed to import (for some reason just THIS model can be trusted??) is a big clunky gas guzzling SUV with...*drum roll* only a 2.0 liter engine! That's like chemical castration if you're into power.

When planning a long-term model for our economic future, it might behoove Detroit and Trump to consider that most people aren't able to manifest the reality of an expensive underpowered SUV or luxury car. Most people are having to choose between a gas budget and health insurance just to get to their $10/hour minimum wage job (one of two they need just to pay half their monthly bills). That is the reality of life here in America where the auto consumers live.

If Detroit wants to sell cars en masse to spur the US economy, they'd damn well better stop monkeying around with affordable clean diesel, hybrid and electric commuter cars. Because even if people wanted to fantasize about a big powered gas hog, they don't make the "power" part of that anymore. And even if they did, the wife will nix the idea because she knows it will mean they can't get good health insurance or groceries anymore when hubby's low-paying "could get laid off any day now" job (especially if he relies on an auto industry making cars Europe & Asia don't want at $6 gallon gas) with a daily driver that gets only 12-15mpg highway.

For fuck's sake. DO THE MATH DETROIT!!! Either Trump wants to save the economy, or he wants to go down in history as the last idiot to hammer the last coffin nail in it.

 

[danielpalos]

should automakers simply emphasize, safer cars with diesel? it may be a consideration with some people. commute range is another factor.

"Safer"? Diesels are no less safe than gas cars. In fact, gasoline is far more instantly flammable than diesel; more explosively so too.

diesel vehicles have to be built "stronger" due to the "compression/torque" output.

It could be that diesel is simply an underutilized, niche market.

In compression-ignition engines, glow plugs (combustion chamber pre-warmers) may be used to aid starting in cold weather, or when the engine uses a lower compression-ratio, or both. The original compression-ignition engine operates on the "constant pressure" cycle of gradual combustion and produces no audible knock.
...
The compression-ignition engine has the highest thermal efficiency (engine efficiency) of any practical internal or external combustion engine due to its very high expansion ratio and inherent lean burn which enables heat dissipation by the excess air. A small efficiency loss is also avoided compared to two-stroke non-direct-injection gasoline engines since unburnt fuel is not present at valve overlap and therefore no fuel goes directly from the intake/injection to the exhaust. Low-speed compression-ignition engines (as used in ships and other applications where overall engine weight is relatively unimportant) can have a thermal efficiency that exceeds 50%.[1][2]--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine

 

[Silhouette]

diesel vehicles have to be built "stronger" due to the "compression/torque" output.

It could be that diesel is simply an underutilized, niche market.

The question is efficiency. Your own quote last page says that it doesn't matter really how heavy a car is to it's engine power...not nearly as much as with gas. And that's because diesel motors are so very much more powerful torque wise to push the car forward than high-end fast off the start gas engines.

So, long story short, and the European/Asian markets know this in their sleep, if you build small, heavy/reinforced (ie: safe) clean diesel commuters with reasonably sized small diesel engines, you get BOTH power and great mileage....something that never exists together in a gas engine...particularly those on the market today that are engineered to be too small for the weight-to-horsepower ratio so that they eat tons of gas to get you around in them.

Europeans look at our car engineering like we're insane. I wish I could chalk it up to insanity, but instead it's cleverness....cleverness meant to keep American family budgets enslaved at the pump, and our military Treasury budget enslaved in the Middle East when we should be doing biodiesels here at home and letting the arabs do their thing without our interference and instigation stirring shit up over there all the time just so a few rich oil men can pin all our collective necks to the ground.

Funny story I think it was about Rex Tillerson (Rex T.), he doesn't want fracking near his horse ranch because he doesn't want the pollution from those operations seeping near his drinking wells...some such like that.

 

[HenryBHough]

Song that comes to mind when liberals prattle on about tiny, fuel efficient vehicle mandates:



Want to kill a liberal without being charged?

Just buy him/her/it one of these little buggers as a gift!

 

[Silhouette]

Oh, except we're not talking about Russian engineering. We're talking about German engineering and our own engineers knowing how to build small commuter clean diesels that are great.

You could've as easily made a case for not buying gas cars by using the Yugo as an example. Nice try at an argument.

Next.

 

[Silhouette]

Different countries do have differing standards in regard to how much pollution gasoline and diesel automobile engines are allowed to emit, but the reason you see so fewer diesel cars in the U.S. is more of a choice by automakers than the product of a decree by regulators on either side of the Atlantic.


Since the advent of the automobile age in the U.S., gasoline has been king of the road; today upwards of 95 percent of passenger cars and light trucks on American roads are gas-powered. And the federal government has done its part to keep it that way, taxing diesel at a rate about 25 percent higher than gasoline. A recent assessment by the American Petroleum Institute, an oil industry trade group, found that federal taxes accounted for 24.4 cents per gallon of diesel but only 18.4 cents per gallon of gasoline....

...according to Jonathan Welsh, who writes the “Me and My Car” Q&A column for The Wall Street Journal, interest in diesels—which typically offer better fuel efficiency than gas-powered cars—has gained significant momentum in the U.S. in recent years given the uptick in gasoline prices....

...U.S. Recently passed regulations require diesel fuel sold in the U.S. today to have ultra low emissions, which appeals to those concerned about their carbon footprints and other environmental impacts. Also, the increased availability of carbon-neutral biodiesel—a form of diesel fuel made from agricultural wastes that can be used in place of regular diesel fuel without any engine modifications—is convincing a whole new generation of American drivers to consider diesel-powered cars. Right now only Volkswagen, Mercedes and Jeep sell diesel-powered cars in the U.S., but Ford, Nissan and others plan to launch American versions of diesel models already successful in Europe within the next year....
Why European Diesel Cars Are Not Available in the U.S.
******

(Written in 2016...now no longer is the plan) It's why I call this thread "Trump's Dieselgate"... With all the advancements made in making biodiesel, the American BigOil/Middle East moguls said "no way Jose'". And so suddenly BigOil is now a major "environmentalist" calling for little efficient diesels..... whose fuel could soon be cut with biological oils.... to be scrapped. It's because burning 4 times more fuel to get from A to B in their big clunky gasoline cars Detroit's agreed to substitute is "better for the environment" (BigOil's pocketbook).

We need to be convincing Europe that 50mpg is better than 12mpg. No convincing needed. Europeans just aren't going to buy those cars. When you see those SUV ads getting pumped on TV, ask yourselves "why don't they mention what type of mileage these cars get?" Because you're not seeing that, are you? That's because the 1970s called and they want their gas mileage back...

 

[danielpalos]

diesel vehicles have to be built "stronger" due to the "compression/torque" output.

It could be that diesel is simply an underutilized, niche market.

The question is efficiency. Your own quote last page says that it doesn't matter really how heavy a car is to it's engine power...not nearly as much as with gas. And that's because diesel motors are so very much more powerful torque wise to push the car forward than high-end fast off the start gas engines.

So, long story short, and the European/Asian markets know this in their sleep, if you build small, heavy/reinforced (ie: safe) clean diesel commuters with reasonably sized small diesel engines, you get BOTH power and great mileage....something that never exists together in a gas engine...particularly those on the market today that are engineered to be too small for the weight-to-horsepower ratio so that they eat tons of gas to get you around in them.

Europeans look at our car engineering like we're insane. I wish I could chalk it up to insanity, but instead it's cleverness....cleverness meant to keep American family budgets enslaved at the pump, and our military Treasury budget enslaved in the Middle East when we should be doing biodiesels here at home and letting the arabs do their thing without our interference and instigation stirring shit up over there all the time just so a few rich oil men can pin all our collective necks to the ground.

Funny story I think it was about Rex Tillerson (Rex T.), he doesn't want fracking near his horse ranch because he doesn't want the pollution from those operations seeping near his drinking wells...some such like that.

I still think you just need to do more market research:

5 small diesel cars that save on fuel

Read more: 5 Small Diesel Cars That Save On Fuel | Bankrate.com
Follow us: @Bankrate on Twitter | Bankrate on Facebook

 

[Silhouette]

I still think you just need to do more market research:

5 small diesel cars that save on fuel

Read more: 5 Small Diesel Cars That Save On Fuel | Bankrate.com
Follow us: @Bankrate on Twitter | Bankrate on Facebook

When you're talking about an engine's ability to haul the weight it's attached to around, diesel cars ALWAYS save on fuel. Unless they've put such a tiny motor in a very large hunk of metal on wheels. That's how Detroit usually engineers cars to force people to buy more fuel. That and "higher emissions standards" that focus drawing unburned fuel to the tailpipe instead of trying to reuse it at the combustion site. Strap a small underpowered gas motor down with enough smog stuff and you can shave a 1/3 or more off its mpg.

They've been doing this for years. Once the biodiesel technology took off here in the States, SUDDENLY BigOil's buddy Detroit is "all about helping climate change" by smashing small efficient diesels that could potentially run on fuel cut with corn oil, algae oils and other bio sources.

 

[danielpalos]

Is the auto industry trying to corner the fuel market?

 

[Silhouette]

Is the auto industry trying to corner the fuel market?

They are one and the same essentially. BigOil has been deep in bed with Detroit since...well...forever.. It's just that before their "engineering shenanigans" weren't poised on the brink of destroying the last shreds of our precarious economy.

 

[danielpalos]

Is the auto industry trying to corner the fuel market?

They are one and the same essentially. BigOil has been deep in bed with Detroit since...well...forever.. It's just that before their "engineering shenanigans" weren't poised on the brink of destroying the last shreds of our precarious economy.

I think you just need to do more market research. We even have an Information Age; simply email the Firm you prefer, and merely ask them for better products at lower cost.

 

[Silhouette]

I think you just need to do more market research. We even have an Information Age; simply email the Firm you prefer, and merely ask them for better products at lower cost.

Well that would keep it private and out of the public eye for sure... Which isn't the intent with this thread so..? The intent of this thread is to make auto manufacturers and BigOil and America more prosperous by making intelligent decisions in their future models for vehicles via the public being aware of what they're up to.

The days of the old clunkers at 12mpg are gone guys. We need to mass produce cars that Europe & Asia will buy at $6/gallon gas or ? diesel. Electric cars will of course consume oil in the end when you have to figure out how to produce the power to plug them into. Unless they're using the linear solar thermal fresnel/carbon hybrid power plants?

The American economy's recovery cannot be trusted to a few cagey, wily rich dudes who don't think beyond the end of five years. This is a long haul that needs all hands on deck. We aren't going to dig ourselves out of foreign debt by producing cars nobody will/can buy...