Traditional Values Defined

MissileMan said:
I disagree. Most of our laws are those that are accepted by every culture, every religion, every state, almost without exception. Laws against murder, theft, perjury, etc. are universal, and IMO inate.

I believe this country has become great, not because of Christianity, but in spite of it. The conglomeration of cultures, and races, and religions, and ideas led to our success. The stifling influence of any ONE set of beliefs was brilliantly written out by the founders.

And I disagree with you. I believe it has been religon, and the morality that stems from it, that has kept this country together thus far. Remove religon, and the morality that stems from it, and this country will surely falter.

The founding fathers were surely aware of that.

And just to add, this post was not about "laws", it was about "values".
 
Pale Rider said:
There would be no conception in the first place without blood. Your rational is backwards.

Umm, no.


According to the bible, the life is in the blood. Fertilized egg has no blood.
 
Max Power said:
Umm, no.
According to the bible, the life is in the blood. Fertilized egg has no blood.

which verse in the bible defines the begining of life as when blood begins to flow?
 
Pale Rider said:
And I disagree with you. I believe it has been religon, and the morality that stems from it, that has kept this country together thus far. Remove religon, and the morality that stems from it, and this country will surely falter.
Actually, countries with less religion don't fall apart, and in fact by many societal indicators, are better off than countries with more religion.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1798944,00.html

In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies

Surely falter? Most certainly not.
 
manu1959 said:
which verse in the bible defines the begining of life as when blood begins to flow?
Leviticus 17-11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood
 
manu1959 said:
have you read the verse? do you even know what it is about?

Yes. Why?

I'll tell you what, why don't YOU provide ME with a verse in the bible where it says that life begins at conception.

BTW, I never said that the bible defines the begining of life as when blood begins to flow, I simply stated that the bible says that the life is in the blood.
 
Max Power said:
Yes. Why?

I'll tell you what, why don't YOU provide ME with a verse in the bible where it says that life begins at conception.

BTW, I never said that the bible defines the begining of life as when blood begins to flow, I simply stated that the bible says that the life is in the blood.


your exact quote was:

"Actually, according to Leviticus 17, life is in the blood, which means life begins when the blood flows, about 18 days AFTER conception."

so yes that is exactly what you said.....

ya ya ya i know....you were for life before you were against it.

i don't need a bible verse to tell me life begins at conception
 
Max Power said:
Actually, countries with less religion don't fall apart, and in fact by many societal indicators, are better off than countries with more religion.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1798944,00.html



Surely falter? Most certainly not.

So you want me to swallow what you're saying because you link to some bullshit opinion of a some bullshit british pundit that gets her kicks out of beating the shit out of America?

“The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so.”

Mr Paul said: “The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America.”

No wonder your head is so full of shit reading that kind of crap. You need to move your ass to europe, and then tell me they're better off than we are.

I don't fucking think so. :finger:
 
Max Power said:
Leviticus 17-11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood

Read it and weep... chump...

The Bible shows God is aware of life in the womb, even before conception!

You formed my inmost being;
You knit me in my mother's womb.
I praise you, so wonderfully you made me;
Wonderful are your works!
My very self you knew;
My bones were not hidden from you,
When I was being made in secret,
Fashioned as in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes foresaw my actions;
In your book all are written down;
My days were shaped, before one came to be.
Psalms 139:13-16 [New American]

"Yahweh called me when I was in the womb,
before my birth he had pronounced my name."
Isaiah 49:1

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you."
Jeremiah 1:5

MEDICAL ASPECTS


LIFE IN THE WOMB


Individual life begins with conception by the union of the couple's sex cells or gametes. The 23 chromosomes of the paternal sperm (male pronucleus) fuses with the 23 chromosomes of the maternal oocyte (egg or female pronucleus) at fertilization to create a single cell embryo or zygote containing 46 chromosomes. The fertilization process takes about 24 hours.
The new human zygote has the inherent capacity or potential to become a fully rational and cognizant person!

http://jesuschristsavior.net/prolife.html
 
manu1959 said:
your exact quote was:

"Actually, according to Leviticus 17, life is in the blood, which means life begins when the blood flows, about 18 days AFTER conception."

so yes that is exactly what you said.....

ya ya ya i know....you were for life before you were against it.

i don't need a bible verse to tell me life begins at conception

You know, if that sperm and that egg were NOT alive in your mom's uterus, then you wouldn't be here right now.
So, life begins before conception, and everytime you masturbate, you're killing millions upon millions of unborn children! AHHHHHHH!
 
Pale Rider said:
So you want me to swallow what you're saying because you link to some bullshit opinion of a some bullshit british pundit that gets her kicks out of beating the shit out of America?


No wonder your head is so full of shit reading that kind of crap. You need to move your ass to europe, and then tell me they're better off than we are.

I don't fucking think so. :finger:

In other words "blah blah blah you're correct."

Thanks.

There are plenty of secular nations who are doing just fine. They don't collapse as you insist they would.
 
Pale Rider said:

You formed my inmost being;
You knit me in my mother's womb.
Okay, so let's say hypothetically that "life" begins 18 days AFTER conception, then wouldn't the same saying be valid?

And all the other ones as well?

The new human zygote has the inherent capacity or potential to become a fully rational and cognizant person!
A sperm and an egg separated have the potential to become a fully fational and cognizant person, so I guess that means life begins BEFORE conception, right? :rolleyes:
 
Max Power said:
A sperm and an egg separated have the potential to become a fully fational and cognizant person, so I guess that means life begins BEFORE conception, right? :rolleyes:

Leave debating to the grown ups. Mmmmmmm kay?
 
Max Power said:
In other words "blah blah blah you're correct."

Thanks.

There are plenty of secular nations who are doing just fine. They don't collapse as you insist they would.


Actually, their birth rates are declining and they're being overrun my militant islamists seeking to destroy them. is that fine?
 
rtwngAvngr said:
Actually, their birth rates are declining and they're being overrun my militant islamists seeking to destroy them. is that fine?

Really? Japan is being overrun by militant islamists?

Leave the debating to the grownups, mmkay? :tng:
 
Max Power said:
You know, if that sperm and that egg were NOT alive in your mom's uterus, then you wouldn't be here right now.
So, life begins before conception, and everytime you masturbate, you're killing millions upon millions of unborn children! AHHHHHHH!

it took you all night to come up with that? ...... as a secularists are you telling me you were the result of your daddy's strongest sperm ...... this is exactly why evolution and survival of the fittest is suspect .....
 
Max Power said:
You know, if that sperm and that egg were NOT alive in your mom's uterus, then you wouldn't be here right now.
So, life begins before conception, and everytime you masturbate, you're killing millions upon millions of unborn children! AHHHHHHH!

Not true oh godless one... sperm isn't a child until it fertilizes an egg.

Now shut up and let the adults talk please.
 
Max Power said:
Really? Japan is being overrun by militant islamists?

Leave the debating to the grownups, mmkay? :tng:

He meant europe idiot... or are you incapable of remembering two posts back?

But, Japan? Let's take a look at Japan...

Japan's two most important religions are Buddhism and Shinto.

Nowadays about 90 million people consider themselves Buddhists in Japan.

Shinto Today

People seek support from Shinto by praying at a home altar or by visiting shrines. A whole range of talismans is available at shrines for traffic safety, good health, business success, safe deliveries, good exam performance and more.

Sounds pretty religous to me.
 
MissileMan said:
I believe this country has become great, not because of Christianity, but in spite of it.

And in my humble opinion, you're exactly wrong, MM. Here's where you falter:

MissleMan said:
The stifling influence of any ONE set of beliefs was brilliantly written out by the founders.

That should actually read, "The influence of any one set of STIFLING beliefs was brilliantly written out by the founders". For, you see, this country was founded by Christians, upon the bedrock Christian principle that Man is a free agent. That's a damned hard pill for tyrants to swallow. King George like to never got it down, and modern history shows us that it remains a stumbling block to the murderously ambitious. But, it is only in the context of a strong, free nation - founded on Christian principles - that freedom remains a realistic hope anywhere on earth. Decry Christianity's influence all you wish, MissleMan - you're allowed. You're free.
 

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