Tolerance? Not for Christians...

[Againsheila]

Wait..a female, being a drama queen...is indicative of gayness?

If you like, I can just call you plain old stupid for equating this court case with the thought police. Does that help you at all?

Prior to the 1970's, it was considered a mental illness. People were institutionalized for it. First they kicked the homosexuals out of the institutions, then they kicked out the rest. Just history, not homophobia. I'm not afraid of homosexuals. I never have been.

So you're saying that 4 DECADES ago, before ANY reproducible research was done on the matter, we had the wrong idea about something?! OH MY!

Well if you plan on living in the 1970s, there might be a point behind your ignorance. But welcome to 2010! Please note the difference in centuries.

Psychology is a soft science. Do you understand what that means?

Psychology isn't a science of any size, shape or form. They tried to convince people it was, but they couldn't make it stick.

It changes all the time and the only thing it's good for is helping people understand themselves a little better. It cannot shine a light on others.

Oh so I get more fun psych opinions from the person who claims the DSM IV changes constantly? So you think psychology is a soft science? Well if we ignore all the neurology discoveries that came as a direct result from psychiatry research, then sure. Oh and I suppose we'd need to ignore all the data we have on the most effective pharmacological treatments of psychiatric disorders. Alzheimers is apparently just a "soft science" that changes all the time!

Perhaps you are thinking of psychology? Psychiatry is a clinical medicine involving heavily researched treatments. You're 0 for 2 regarding knowledge on this topic now, but feel free to keep talking as if your misdirected opinions hold any value.

I said "psychology is a soft science" you then quoted something someone else said and attacked me.

Yes, I was thinking of psychology. That's what a psychiatrist is, an MD with a degree in psychology. Look it up.

As a person with two autistic children, I do know a bit about the DSM 4, it has changed several times since my kids were first diagnosed. Hence, it is constantly changing. Asperger's, which is something my oldest was diagnosed with is now considered "high functioning autism" and is no longer in the DSM 4. Mental Retardation is now under the Autism Spectrum, which does explain some of the increase in autism.

Like I said, there is a physical difference in the brains of those with ADD vs "normal" people, and many people claim ADD doesn't exist. There have been no such studies done comparing the brains of homosexual so we don't know. And FYI, when there is a physical difference in the brain it's call a neurobiological disorder. I have a book on it, it's a text book for doctors at the UW, at least it was when I got it. My autistic son's dentist was so impressed by it when he saw me reading it, he ordered a copy from the UW. He's a pediatric dentist, but he continues to treat many people like my son, adults who are still kids inside.

Now you can claim I'm an idiot all you want, but that doesn't make it so. I think, unless you are a psychologist, or a psychiatrist, I just might know a just a little more on the subject than you. I don't have a degree but with two special needs kids I've been doing a lot of studying over the past 20 years that most people don't. I have attended several seminars on the subject. The brain interests me greatly as you can probably guess. There is no cure for autism. I doubt there ever will be, though there may some day be a preventative. Adults with autism have smaller brain stems than "normal" adults. Again, a neurobiological disorder. This indicates to me, that while they may come up with a way to prevent it, I doubt they will ever come up with a cure, unless they can figure out a way to grow a brain stem in an adult. Interesting idea, but not likely to happen in mine or my children's lifetimes.

It would be interesting to compare PET scans of homosexuals with those of "normal" adults, but that's not going to happen with the PC crowd today. Again, a "soft" science, nothing concrete to back up their opinions.

And if you don't think psychology is a soft science, talk to a psychologist. Again, a psychiatrist is an MD with a degree in psychology.

 

[Madeline]

Not exactly, Againshelia. A psychiatrist is an MD who is board certified in pyschiatry. Psychology is a related, but distinct area of study and the PhDs in that area are (obviously) not MDs.

I am interested to know more about autism, if ever you'd care to share it on its own thread. I get on my knees and thank God for my healthy kidlet every time I read onna your posts. But someday I hope to be a grandma....I'm frustrated that in all these years, they still cannot explain what causes autism.

 

[Coyote]

Like I said, there is a physical difference in the brains of those with ADD vs "normal" people, and many people claim ADD doesn't exist. There have been no such studies done comparing the brains of homosexual so we don't know.

There have been some studies indicating brain differences in homosexuals.

ScienceDirect - Brain Research : An enlarged suprachiasmatic nucleus in homosexual men

What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME

Symmetry Of Homosexual Brain Resembles That Of Opposite Sex, Swedish Study Finds

 

[Againsheila]

Not exactly, Againshelia. A psychiatrist is an MD who is board certified in pyschiatry. Psychology is a related, but distinct area of study and the PhDs in that area are (obviously) not MDs.

I am interested to know more about autism, if ever you'd care to share it on its own thread. I get on my knees and thank God for my healthy kidlet every time I read onna your posts. But someday I hope to be a grandma....I'm frustrated that in all these years, they still cannot explain what causes autism.

If you have grandkids, tell you kids not to get them vaccines until they are at least 3 years of age and then, only one at a time.

 

[Againsheila]

Like I said, there is a physical difference in the brains of those with ADD vs "normal" people, and many people claim ADD doesn't exist. There have been no such studies done comparing the brains of homosexual so we don't know.

There have been some studies indicating brain differences in homosexuals.

ScienceDirect - Brain Research : An enlarged suprachiasmatic nucleus in homosexual men

What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME

Symmetry Of Homosexual Brain Resembles That Of Opposite Sex, Swedish Study Finds

Oh cool, thanks. It looks like it is a neurobiological disorder.

 

[Madeline]

Respectfully, Againshelia, not every characteristic which occurs only 10% of the time is a "disorder".

 

[Coyote]

Like I said, there is a physical difference in the brains of those with ADD vs "normal" people, and many people claim ADD doesn't exist. There have been no such studies done comparing the brains of homosexual so we don't know.

There have been some studies indicating brain differences in homosexuals.

ScienceDirect - Brain Research : An enlarged suprachiasmatic nucleus in homosexual men

What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME

Symmetry Of Homosexual Brain Resembles That Of Opposite Sex, Swedish Study Finds

Oh cool, thanks. It looks like it is a neurobiological disorder.

There are biological differences between the brains of males and females. Looks like being male is a neurobiological disorder eh?

 

[Madeline]

Us ladies didn't post this, Coyote.........

 

[Sky Dancer]

Againshelia, there was a movement to close large, public mental hospitals in that era....but it was not related to the change made to remove homosexuality from the DSM. It may have had something to do with public funds, as you suggest....but there was also a rather public outcry against the conditions inside those hospitals, as you might recall. It was thought better to hold people in smaller, community-based facilities, which in large part never materialized.

It just terrifies me that you'd suggest a person with a homosexual orientation should be confined against his or her will in a mental hospital, alongside paranoid schizophrenics, etc.

I didn't suggest anything, I merely pointed out an historical fact.

The DSM 4 is constantly changing. Personally, I kind of equate homosexuality with deafness. Hear me out...the deaf society doesn't think there's anything wrong with them. In fact, two deaf parents, given the choice will most likely choose NOT to have the cochlear implant put in their child so their child can hear, they don't see not hearing as a deficiency.

Homosexuals do not see what they are as a deficiency either, however, it's not "normal". And yes I put it in quotations and nothing is really "normal". You will never convince me that having sex with someone of the same sex is normal. Then again, you'll never convince me that adultery is okay either. I'm one of those black and white people, no gray areas. Don't try and read between my lines, there's never anything there. I come right out and say what I think.


So, if they ever come out for a cure for homosexuality, what then? Does it suddenly get into the DSM 4 again?

Homosexuality is not a disease requiring a cure, nor is it a brain disorder. Homosexuality is not comparable to deafness. Deafness is a disability.

Yes. You definitelty are a black and white thinker.

 

[Againsheila]

Respectfully, Againshelia, not every characteristic which occurs only 10% of the time is a "disorder".

Call it whatever you want, it's not "normal". To expel a Christian student from a public university for her Christian beliefs is against the law. If she can't do the work, flunk her, but apparently she can do the work, they just don't like her beliefs.

Anybody know if they've done similar studies on bi-sexuals?

 

[Againsheila]

Againshelia, there was a movement to close large, public mental hospitals in that era....but it was not related to the change made to remove homosexuality from the DSM. It may have had something to do with public funds, as you suggest....but there was also a rather public outcry against the conditions inside those hospitals, as you might recall. It was thought better to hold people in smaller, community-based facilities, which in large part never materialized.

It just terrifies me that you'd suggest a person with a homosexual orientation should be confined against his or her will in a mental hospital, alongside paranoid schizophrenics, etc.

I didn't suggest anything, I merely pointed out an historical fact.

The DSM 4 is constantly changing. Personally, I kind of equate homosexuality with deafness. Hear me out...the deaf society doesn't think there's anything wrong with them. In fact, two deaf parents, given the choice will most likely choose NOT to have the cochlear implant put in their child so their child can hear, they don't see not hearing as a deficiency.

Homosexuals do not see what they are as a deficiency either, however, it's not "normal". And yes I put it in quotations and nothing is really "normal". You will never convince me that having sex with someone of the same sex is normal. Then again, you'll never convince me that adultery is okay either. I'm one of those black and white people, no gray areas. Don't try and read between my lines, there's never anything there. I come right out and say what I think.


So, if they ever come out for a cure for homosexuality, what then? Does it suddenly get into the DSM 4 again?

Homosexuality is not a disease requiring a cure, nor is it a brain disorder. Homosexuality is not comparable to deafness. Deafness is a disability.

Yes. You definitelty are a black and white thinker.

Don't tell that to the deaf community, they would be insulted.

 

[Father Time]

I didn't suggest anything, I merely pointed out an historical fact.

The DSM 4 is constantly changing. Personally, I kind of equate homosexuality with deafness. Hear me out...the deaf society doesn't think there's anything wrong with them. In fact, two deaf parents, given the choice will most likely choose NOT to have the cochlear implant put in their child so their child can hear, they don't see not hearing as a deficiency.

Homosexuals do not see what they are as a deficiency either, however, it's not "normal". And yes I put it in quotations and nothing is really "normal". You will never convince me that having sex with someone of the same sex is normal. Then again, you'll never convince me that adultery is okay either. I'm one of those black and white people, no gray areas. Don't try and read between my lines, there's never anything there. I come right out and say what I think.


So, if they ever come out for a cure for homosexuality, what then? Does it suddenly get into the DSM 4 again?

Homosexuality is not a disease requiring a cure, nor is it a brain disorder. Homosexuality is not comparable to deafness. Deafness is a disability.

Yes. You definitelty are a black and white thinker.

Don't tell that to the deaf community, they would be insulted.

Fortunately a lot of them wouldn't understand what you were saying.

 

[Againsheila]

Homosexuality is not a disease requiring a cure, nor is it a brain disorder. Homosexuality is not comparable to deafness. Deafness is a disability.

Yes. You definitelty are a black and white thinker.

Don't tell that to the deaf community, they would be insulted.

Fortunately a lot of them wouldn't understand what you were saying.

Maybe not what you're saying. I took sign language. How do you think I learned so much about the deaf community?

I do have to brush up on that. I've forgotten a lot, but I know enough to get my point across when I'm around them, even if I have to spell everything out.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Againshelia, there was a movement to close large, public mental hospitals in that era....but it was not related to the change made to remove homosexuality from the DSM. It may have had something to do with public funds, as you suggest....but there was also a rather public outcry against the conditions inside those hospitals, as you might recall. It was thought better to hold people in smaller, community-based facilities, which in large part never materialized.

It just terrifies me that you'd suggest a person with a homosexual orientation should be confined against his or her will in a mental hospital, alongside paranoid schizophrenics, etc.

I didn't suggest anything, I merely pointed out an historical fact.

The DSM 4 is constantly changing. Personally, I kind of equate homosexuality with deafness. Hear me out...the deaf society doesn't think there's anything wrong with them. In fact, two deaf parents, given the choice will most likely choose NOT to have the cochlear implant put in their child so their child can hear, they don't see not hearing as a deficiency.

Homosexuals do not see what they are as a deficiency either, however, it's not "normal". And yes I put it in quotations and nothing is really "normal". You will never convince me that having sex with someone of the same sex is normal. Then again, you'll never convince me that adultery is okay either. I'm one of those black and white people, no gray areas. Don't try and read between my lines, there's never anything there. I come right out and say what I think.


So, if they ever come out for a cure for homosexuality, what then? Does it suddenly get into the DSM 4 again?

Homosexuality is not a disease requiring a cure, nor is it a brain disorder. Homosexuality is not comparable to deafness. Deafness is a disability.

Yes. You definitelty are a black and white thinker.

How do you arrive at your conclusions of what is a disorder and what is normal?

 

[Madeline]

A disorder would be a mutation, injury or disease that adversely affected the human's health or functioning. Homosexuality is like left-handedness, or eye color, or earlobe shape. It might not occur most of the time, but it t'aint maladaptive or dysfunctional.

 

[Hister]

Homosexuality is not a disease requiring a cure, nor is it a brain disorder. Homosexuality is not comparable to deafness. Deafness is a disability.

Yes. You definitelty are a black and white thinker.

Don't tell that to the deaf community, they would be insulted.

Fortunately a lot of them wouldn't understand what you were saying.

Why, deaf people can't read? Or they're just all really stoopid?

 

[Hister]

Sheila, so "normal" is to put down gays? Is that what you've learned from studying Jesus?

 

[Againsheila]

Sheila, so "normal" is to put down gays? Is that what you've learned from studying Jesus?

Nope, I put "normal" in quotes so as not to put down anybody......

Let's face it, none of us is really "normal".

 

[Madeline]

Well, that is true.

 

[Father Time]

Don't tell that to the deaf community, they would be insulted.

Fortunately a lot of them wouldn't understand what you were saying.

Why, deaf people can't read? Or they're just all really stoopid?

No but they can't hear.