TNHarleys solution to the immigration problem

[dblack]

I'm not surprised. But you should. Reasoning is required for wise decision making.

Lol absolutely. But you are grasping at straws. There is a difference.

Are you denying that innocent people will get tangled up in the kind of enforcement effort you're advocating?

You mean making employers use e-verify? lol
I guess its possible, but that's a possibility with EVERYTHING.
Look black, nobody wants the elderly couple down the street to check the immigration status of their 10 year old neighbor to rake leaves. That's ridiculous.

The sad thing is, the people most likely to get burned by this kind of police state shit are small start-ups who don't have the funds to perform comprehensive investigations on everyone they hire. No doubt the larger companies they are competing against will support your proposal.

Isnt e-verify internet based?
I wouldn't think larger companies are the actual problem.. At least for the most part.

Nope. Most illegals work off the books, for people and employers without the resources to perform exhaustive investigations on everyone they work with.

 

[TNHarley]

Lol absolutely. But you are grasping at straws. There is a difference.

Are you denying that innocent people will get tangled up in the kind of enforcement effort you're advocating?

You mean making employers use e-verify? lol
I guess its possible, but that's a possibility with EVERYTHING.
Look black, nobody wants the elderly couple down the street to check the immigration status of their 10 year old neighbor to rake leaves. That's ridiculous.

The sad thing is, the people most likely to get burned by this kind of police state shit are small start-ups who don't have the funds to perform comprehensive investigations on everyone they hire. No doubt the larger companies they are competing against will support your proposal.

Isnt e-verify internet based?
I wouldn't think larger companies are the actual problem.. At least for the most part.

Nope. Most illegals work off the books, for people and employers without the resources to perform exhaustive investigations on everyone they work with.

Hmmmm... E-Verify Overview

 

[Divine Wind]

Please provide some factual data or percentages. Saying "quite often", "a lot", "many" and the like is just a smoke screen.

Why are you so anxious to protect illegals? Do you have a business that uses them?

I'm anxious to protect everyone who doesn't live their lives sucking up to authoritarian government.

While I agree with you, once again, you've failed to provide factual data. Does this mean you don't have any? Just opinion?

 

[Divine Wind]

...The exact opposite of your asinine accusation.

No need to become emotionally entangled in this discussion.

It's okay if you don't have an intellectual reply or any facts to present. Like all Americans, you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[dblack]

Alright. Speaking of work, back to it. Fun chatting with you jack-boots.

 

[TNHarley]

probably a good time. You don't have much room to argue anymore lol

 

[Divine Wind]

I pretty much always vote Libertarian. I've never voted Democrat. Voted Republican - once, for Reagan in his first term. Regretted it.

Thanks. Good to see we can agree on something.

While I agree with much of the Libertarian platform, unless you think it's wise we allow citizens to exercise vigilante justice, then we need government to protect citizens from unscrupulous businessmen.

Example. If a restaurant was intentionally serving tainted food and some people not only became sick, but an old person or child died of illness, would you favor government recourse or an old fashioned neck-tie party for the restaurant's owner and family; an eye for an eye?

Likewise, if a taco truck did the same thing, is it okay with you if affected citizens burned the truck and killed the owners or do you suggest some sort of "big government" involvement here?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You're right, G5000. I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people. They come here for work to support their families and to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need. I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do. I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home! Ever.

I don't give a fuck how hard a worker someone is, if they sneaked in and they are here illegally, they should be sent right back where they came from !

While I agree that we should all abide by the laws of this land my point was to clarify that the Mexican people do not come here for a welfare check. They are coming here for work and for a future. I agree with the OP on point number 4. Make citizenship easier.

To portray the Mexican people as lazy is grossly unfair. They are a very hardworking, industrious people and desire to earn their own way rather than accept a hand out. They are living under very stressful conditions and it is understandable they would want a safe place to live and a future for their families. Don't you?

I don't think they are any more lazy than any other group, some are hard workers, some come here to have their offspring in order to be entitled to benefits.
Regardless, they should show respect for our immigration laws. Millions have not, and in fact Mexicans are the #1 offenders.
I would send every single one who is here illegally back if it were up to me.

I've met people from Mexico and know firsthand that they are very hardworking people. Whatever trade they are in? They work harder than the rest do. What I'd like for you to do is to think about how you would feel if you lived in a neighborhood where violence ruled the streets and you feared for the lives of your family members. Where your neighbors disappeared in broad daylight never to be seen again. If you saw others crossing the border and lax laws on US immigration would you not at least try to get your family across the border? Given the right set of circumstances? I believe you would. You see, you do not know what you would do unless you were confronted with such a predicament. Have some compassion. Do you have any idea how many Mexican people have settled for lower pay - even under the minimum wage in order to have the opportunity to live here? They've been exploited by their own government, exploited by employers here in America and complain the least. I believe in obeying the laws of the land but becoming a citizen should be made easier for these people. imo.

If they're so great why is their own country a cesspool of corruption and mediocrity? Thousands and thousands of miles of warm water coastline, ports, Oil....they did nit build the Panama Canal, the USA did.

I understand exactly what you're saying and also I've seen it first-hand However Clean up your own Cesspool before infecting another one This is also brought to you by Google type talking I tried getting up to yours I don't really care

I do not believe anyone with a criminal record (felony) should be permitted entry into our country. I was speaking of Mexican people who desire to come here to escape the violence in their own country and want an opportunity to work here and have a better life. In Mexico - the government, army and law enforcement are very corrupt. I feel compassion for anyone living under such conditions.

The day may come when times are so hard in America (even worse than Mexico) that you may desire to cross the border and live there. Don't burn your bridges.

 

[Divine Wind]

I do not believe anyone with a criminal record (felony) should be permitted entry into our country. I was speaking of Mexican people who desire to come here to escape the violence in their own country and want an opportunity to work here and have a better life. In Mexico - the government, army and law enforcement are very corrupt. I feel compassion for anyone living under such conditions.

The day may come when times are so hard in America (even worse than Mexico) that you may desire to cross the border and live there. Don't burn your bridges.

Agreed on criminals entering the country. AFAIK, that's already the case with legal immigrants.

Mexico isn't as bad as you make out. Yes, there's some corruption, "bad" by American standards, but I've never had a problem down there. As pointed out elsewhere, their economy has been booming for some time. Lots of good jobs for those with a modicum of common sense.

Many Americans do go to Mexico for either medical procedures or to live since the cost of living is much cheaper. There are special retirement communities for the elderly on fixed incomes.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I do not believe anyone with a criminal record (felony) should be permitted entry into our country. I was speaking of Mexican people who desire to come here to escape the violence in their own country and want an opportunity to work here and have a better life. In Mexico - the government, army and law enforcement are very corrupt. I feel compassion for anyone living under such conditions.

The day may come when times are so hard in America (even worse than Mexico) that you may desire to cross the border and live there. Don't burn your bridges.

Agreed on criminals entering the country. AFAIK, that's already the case with legal immigrants.

Mexico isn't as bad as you make out. Yes, there's some corruption, "bad" by American standards, but I've never had a problem down there. As pointed out elsewhere, their economy has been booming for some time. Lots of good jobs for those with a modicum of common sense.

Many Americans do go to Mexico for either medical procedures or to live since the cost of living is much cheaper. There are special retirement communities for the elderly on fixed incomes.

Thank you. I stand corrected - there are places / cities in Mexico where there is much hopelessness and lawlessness but you are right, there are some good places to go in Mexico. I have a close friend who vacations at a certain beach there and loves it. They have even spoken of moving to that specific location - I forget the name of the beach they go to but it is quite safe. Of course you would have to have far more money than the average Mexican citizen to live there.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Not at all. The two aren't as easily distinguished as you might imagine. And they're no different in principle. Is paying someone to mow your lawn "employing" them, or buying something from a business?

Let's start big and work small. Obviously E-verifying the kid next door to mow your lawn or babysit your kid is "small". Let's start with businesses and employers of 5-10 or more people. If that works, then we can update the system later.

If the child is old enough to mow your lawn and not injure himself I would agree with you but no child (kid) should be babysitting your children. Too much can happen and you would never be able to undo it. Who babysits your child is no small thing. It is one of the most important decisions you'll ever make in your life and you should address it as such.

 

[Divine Wind]

Thank you. I stand corrected - there are places / cities in Mexico where there is much hopelessness and lawlessness but you are right, there are some good places to go in Mexico. I have a close friend who vacations at a certain beach there and loves it. They have even spoken of moving to that specific location - I forget the name of the beach they go to but it is quite safe. Of course you would have to have far more money than the average Mexican citizen to live there.

There are several; Cancun, Mazatlan and Acapulco to name a few. What's funny is the rumor that one reasons why the resort cities are so safe is because that's where the Cartels launder their money. Like the Mafia buying up Vegas, the Cartels own the major businesses and hotels in the resort cities. Anyone who messes with tourists is going to raise the ire of the Cartels and end up with their head in cooler outside of town.

 

[Divine Wind]

If the child is old enough to mow your lawn and not injure himself I would agree with you but no child (kid) should be babysitting your children. Too much can happen and you would never be able to undo it. Who babysits your child is no small thing. It is one of the most important decisions you'll ever make in your life and you should address it as such.

Is 16 too young? 14? 18? Not everyone can afford to hire a professional nanny for a Saturday night on the town.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

If the child is old enough to mow your lawn and not injure himself I would agree with you but no child (kid) should be babysitting your children. Too much can happen and you would never be able to undo it. Who babysits your child is no small thing. It is one of the most important decisions you'll ever make in your life and you should address it as such.

Is 16 too young? 14? 18? Not everyone can afford to hire a professional nanny for a Saturday night on the town.

Then don't go. If you had 10 billion dollars in gold sitting in your living room would you trust the person you left watching over it for you for an evening? No. You wouldn't.

You see, the problem is the same people who will leave their children with people they do not really know - would die before they would leave their life savings with the same people. It's a matter of value. Children are a most valuable gift from God and as such they should be looked after as if your life depended on it. Because it does. I am reminded of a wealthy couple who left their child with a nanny who was unhappy about her pay. They didn't know her very well - perhaps for a few years and she was recommended by a friend of theirs. One day the woman murdered the child while the parents were at work.

It wasn't that they couldn't afford to pay an extended family member even $100,000.00 a year to watch after their child. They were just too cheap. And because they were cheap they thought they could cut corners on child care even though they admitted later on that they had sensed something was wrong with the woman. Big mistake and now their lives have been changed forever. Was it worth it? Ask them.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

This is what I would advise a person do to concerning childcare. Pray about it. Then select someone that you know, like and trust (family member or non family member) and ask several of the most godly, discerning Christians you know to meet the person and ask them for their counsel on whether or not that is the right person. There is wisdom in many counselors.

 

[P@triot]

3's unconstitutional, but other than that I could be ok with it.

Uh....what? Where in the hell in the U.S. Constitution does it say that illegal immigrants must receive healthcare, drivers licenses, etc.? There is nothing even remotely "unconstitutional" about TNHarley's point number three.

 

[strollingbones]

1. MASSIVELY fine employers


agree


2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters

agree
3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING

disagree one should never want a generation or culture that is ignorant.....no turning down people at the er
we, as a society can afford the treatment..while denial of treatment can cause more damage...i would rather someone with a splinter in their eye be treated than blinded in that eye (beans of egypt maine)

4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..

how easy should it be...if you can in the 50's it was 200 bucks and a few papers...today it can run more like 5 k and tons of paperwork ....the us wants immigration over invasion

The economy you ask? The jobs?
After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.


they did the work for welfare in nc....had to work 8 hours a week or so to collect....i didnt think it really changed anything...


Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise

feeding ones family.....in today's society welfare queens think they are doing that by working the program.....and welfare queen refers to both sexes...it is sad to see meth heads fighting over custody of a child cause they know the parent with the child gets medicare and they can get oxies then...paid for....

 

[TNHarley]

1. MASSIVELY fine employers


agree


2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters

agree
3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING

disagree one should never want a generation or culture that is ignorant.....no turning down people at the er
we, as a society can afford the treatment..while denial of treatment can cause more damage...i would rather someone with a splinter in their eye be treated than blinded in that eye (beans of egypt maine)

4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..

how easy should it be...if you can in the 50's it was 200 bucks and a few papers...today it can run more like 5 k and tons of paperwork ....the us wants immigration over invasion

The economy you ask? The jobs?
After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.


they did the work for welfare in nc....had to work 8 hours a week or so to collect....i didnt think it really changed anything...


Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise

feeding ones family.....in today's society welfare queens think they are doing that by working the program.....and welfare queen refers to both sexes...it is sad to see meth heads fighting over custody of a child cause they know the parent with the child gets medicare and they can get oxies then...paid for....

3. but they are not "our culture". They are not even citizens. Incentive keeps them coming. We have to stop it.
8 hours a week is bullshit for able bodied Americans.

 

[strollingbones]

i was referring to a 'culture of ignorance"

 

[TNHarley]

i was referring to a 'culture of ignorance"

but its not "our" culture. They aren't even Americans.
Maybe being dumb would be incentive enough to go back home?