This is what left-wing policy results in

Slavery is immoral. Which begs the question - why are you left-winger so desperate to enslave everyone?
you are the one begging that question. We have a Commerce Clause.
So you think the "Commerce Clause" legalizes slavery?!? :lmao:
You are the one "begging the question". Why do you believe it does?

Capitalism is about market friendly transactions that involve mutually beneficial trade.
 
The US has the Best form of Socialism in the Entire World. The rich can even keep their multimillion dollar bonuses while on means tested corporate welfare and the poor can still have steak and lobster on their EBT cards.
And that stupidity right there is why we're $20 trillion in debt and have lost most of our liberties.
dude; those are Your policies. Socialism on a national basis is all the right wing has.
Socialism is exclusively left-wing, snowflake. Who passed Obamacare? Who passed welfare? Who passed Social Security? Who passed Medicaid?

Are any of those constitutional? Nope! Do they cost over $1 trillion per year - more than double the defense budget? Yep!

Do you look really stupid right now? Yes! Do we all wonder why you keep coming back for more? Yep.
special pleading much? our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror, are worse.
Well that's insanely idiotic - even by your normal standards. Waging a war against terror, crime, or drugs are not "socialism". Do you not understand what that term means? You were proclaiming the left engages in (and I quote) "national socialism". I pointed out that every idiotic socialist legislation in U.S. history was left-wing. You're best response to that indisputable fact was "our wars on crime, drugs, and terror are worse". What do any of those have to do with the fact that you were 100% wrong as usual?
Yes, government policy is command economics. only the right wing, never gets it.
 
Slavery is immoral. Which begs the question - why are you left-winger so desperate to enslave everyone?
you are the one begging that question. We have a Commerce Clause.
So you think the "Commerce Clause" legalizes slavery?!? :lmao:
You are the one "begging the question".
Well duh. When someone makes a comment as astoundingly stupid as "the commerce clause legalizes slavery" it requires intelligent people to ask questions.
 
Yes, government policy is command economics.
It's "government policy" to arrest, prosecute, and imprison murders. What does that have to do with the economy?

(Hint: nothing)

You want so desperately to convince everyone that we already have a "planned economy" so that you can work toward an actual planned economy. It's not working snowflake. Unfortunately for you, we're all exponentially smarter than you are.
 
And I would argue that all of those ghettos and projects, and abandoned neighborhoods, are not examples of Capitalism, but rather of socialism.

The most obvious being the "projects". What do you think "projects" means? It's government public housing. Well if government is running it, paying for it, controlling it.... that's not Capitalism. That's socialism.

All the 'projects' that have failed across this country, can't be blamed on capitalism, because under capitalism, they never would have existed.

Slums and ghettos in the US, I would also argue are largely due to government. One of the primary reasons people stay poor, is because government teaches them to live off government. Which again... is socialism. Not Capitalism. Capitalism, people live off their work.

Most of these slums and ghettos, the majority of the people are living off of welfare, and food stamps, and section 8 housing. In fact one of the quickest ways to create a slum, is to make the area section 8.

Back in the 90s, I worked at Wendy's, and a lady came in, and told us she had to work X number of days until she could get back on Welfare, and then she was gone. Sure enough on the day she qualified for welfare, she stopped showing up for work.

The number one way any person moves up out of poverty, is by working, which gives them experience and skills, to move up the income chain.

Quitting because you qualify for welfare, means that you never get beyond entry level. Which means you stay in poverty, and the slums, for life.

It's a system that only exists because of socialism. Socialism, literally harms everyone. Capitalism benefits everyone.

Welfare, and other government programs, not only harm the welfare recipient, but it also harms all the working people who have to pay for the welfare recipient, and not only that it also harms the fabric of society, because working people hate the lazy slob not working, and the lazy slob hates the working people.

Socialism is the socioeconomic version of cancer, that destroys everything it touches.
I don´t agree.

The most obvious being the "projects". What do you think "projects" means? It's government public housing. Well if government is running it, paying for it, controlling it.... that's not Capitalism. That's socialism.
It is capitalism. Capitalism accumulates so much wealth on a small group of people that some are unable to pay for their own livelihood and need assistance even if they have two or three jobs. If you say no we do not make projects, those people would not disappear but pose an even larger problem. Pure capitalism.


Slums and ghettos in the US, I would also argue are largely due to government. One of the primary reasons people stay poor, is because government teaches them to live off government. Which again... is socialism. Not Capitalism. Capitalism, people live off their work.
Capitalism needs rules because it would result in slavery. Ghettos are the result of capitalist slavery in America´s early years. Also, Ghettos result from a lack of government.


Most of these slums and ghettos, the majority of the people are living off of welfare, and food stamps, and section 8 housing. In fact one of the quickest ways to create a slum, is to make the area section 8.
No, not the majority. In some, maybe. Government welfare is a tool to deal with the insufficiencies of capitalism. Capitalism and civilization are opposites. This is not a plea against market economy but against the law of the jungle.


Back in the 90s, I worked at Wendy's, and a lady came in, and told us she had to work X number of days until she could get back on Welfare, and then she was gone. Sure enough on the day she qualified for welfare, she stopped showing up for work.

The number one way any person moves up out of poverty, is by working, which gives them experience and skills, to move up the income chain.

Quitting because you qualify for welfare, means that you never get beyond entry level. Which means you stay in poverty, and the slums, for life.
That smart woman knows there is no from rag to riches. Her behavior is capitalist and aims to get the most out of the least. She does what you are actually demanding.

I don´t agree.


You have the right to be wrong.

It is capitalism. Capitalism accumulates so much wealth on a small group of people that some are unable to pay for their own livelihood and need assistance even if they have two or three jobs. If you say no we do not make projects, those people would not disappear but pose an even larger problem. Pure capitalism.

Wrong. Not true.

Capitalism does not require, or cause, people to be unable to pay for their own livelihood.

What capitalism does, is allow people to make choices. In socialism, in the pre-78 China, I have to work in the rice fields for the rest of my life. I don't have a choice in the matter. Which allows you to only earn as much as me, and we all get the same wage, some shelter, same food, same life. We have no hope, and no future. We are born poor, live poor, and die poor.

But.... we have a guaranteed income.

In Capitalism, you choose what you do. If you work at Burger King until you die, flipping whoopers, then you live a meager life until you die. But you don't have to. No one has to. They can choose to do something else.

Doug McMillon current CEO of walmart, started of working in the distribution center, unloading trucks. Seasonal job, during the summer, earning a few bucks and hour, unloading trucks.

Did he stay there? No, he went to college, got a degree, learned management skills, and then applied to move up to a new position. Then a another position. And kept moving every year or two, to a new spot in the company, and now he's CEO.

And here's the real kicker of Capitalism. Everyone is a capitalist. I'm a capitalist. You are a capitalist.

The only difference between the rich capitalist, and the poor capitalist, is whether they choose to invest their money, or blow it. If you spend all your money, you'll be the poor capitalist. If you invest your money, you'll be the rich capitalist, even if you make very little relatively speaking.

Janitor secretly amassed an $8 million fortune, left most of it to library and hospital

This guy worked as a janitor his entire life. End up with $8 Million. How? Saved and invested. Real simple. He saved up money, and invested into stocks of companies he liked.

Do you know Warren Buffet got to where he is? When he was in high school, he saved up money from a paper route, and bought a pinball machine. He then placed the pinball machine in a local business where it made more money.

Anyone can be a Buffet. Anyone. It's simply that people choose not to. I have a co-worker that bought a bran new car, on 24% interest, because he just couldn't stand not having a new car any longer. He's destined to be poor.

Years and years ago, a had a roommate, that spent every single penny they earned, from Friday's check, until they were flat broke by Thursday. I tried to give some simple advice, that saving up some money would be wise, and I was told I was being 'critical' of them.

So I never said anything again. Then their alternator blew on their car, and they has absolutely no money to fix it.

This is Capitalism. They earned more money than be by far, yet they were broke, and I had cash in the bank.

Capitalism is freedom of people to make choices and reap the consequences of those choices. For me, the choice to live frugally and invest, means I have cash in the bank, and stocks in large corporations.... even though I earned just $19,000 last year.

For others, Capitalism is the freedom to blow their money on things they desire, and have no money left.

Point being, "capitalism" doesn't cause wealth to accumulated in the hands of the few. The freedom of people, causes wealth to accumulate in the hands of the few.

Socialism is simply denying people the ability to choose. When you take away choices, and make people slaves of the state, then magically everyone has the same level of wealth. Granted... an impoverished amount of wealth... but at least it's equal impoverishment... right?

Capitalism needs rules because it would result in slavery. Ghettos are the result of capitalist slavery in America´s early years. Also, Ghettos result from a lack of government.

Nah, that's garbage. It's not even logical. Many socialist systems had slaves. Soviets were massive numbers of slavers, and unlike American slave owners, literally worked them to death, some cases intentionally. So was Maoist China.

If anything, a fundamental aspect of Capitalism, is property rights. How can you ever have capitalism, if you can't own property? Well if you are slave, that undermines the core aspect of property rights. Slaves can't own other things.

So by it's nature, slavery subverts Capitalism. And that's about the only connection between capitalism and slavery.

No, not the majority. In some, maybe. Government welfare is a tool to deal with the insufficiencies of capitalism. Capitalism and civilization are opposites. This is not a plea against market economy but against the law of the jungle.

Nearly all. Not some, or even a minority. Nearly all. Hilliard is a small suburb, and even here we introduced a section 8 housing area, and already it's a disaster. Police are there all the time. The place is trashed. I'm currently supporting an effort to force the city to close the section 8, and get rid of the dope smoking hoodlums there.

I don't really care what you call it. Fact is, it causes the very thing you claim it exists to remedy.

During the welfare reform of the 1990s, the local station sent a reporter to dig up one of these people that was going to get cut off. She found some lady, and she was saying she'll have to get a job, and the reporter asked "How devastating will this be for you and your kids?"

The lady responded "Oh we'll be better off. I'll have more money for the family when I get a job"

The reporter was shocked.... stuttered a bit "Well uh... Why didn't you get a job sooner?"

"I didn't have to".

Government programs do not help people out of poverty. They keep people in poverty. You don't help anyone. You harm everyone. You harm them, by keeping them in poverty. You harm us, the people who work paying for your crappy programs. And you harm society, because we hate those lazy ticks sucking the blood out of our butts, and they hate us because living off government strips away dignity and pride of providing for ones self.

There is not one good aspect to your programs, except that it allows you to live inside the myth that you are good person because someone ELSE is paying money to the poor.

That smart woman knows there is no from rag to riches. Her behavior is capitalist and aims to get the most out of the least. She does what you are actually demanding

Completely illogical statement. In a Capitalists system of voluntary exchange, she would not be able to force others to pay for her being lazy.

You are just stupid now. You want to just make up random personal definitions of words, so you can live in the make-believe that it fits your argument?

If you can't argue logically, then you are disqualified from this discussion.
Even in socialism people move up the career ladder when they are excel in their job. Your few cases of from rag to riches do not mean everyone has the choice to become rich. You are glorifying a system and don´t allow criticism. We all were billionaires if it was true what you say. The best mix of socialism and capitalism has to be found and applied.

Yes, actually it does mean that. Everyone can be rich. Everyone can. Every single person has the ability to live on less than they make, and save and invest.

Again, Warren Buffet didn't become a billionaire by random chance, or by excessive brilliance. He simply didn't blow his money on crap. It's the Pinball people verses the Beer Pong people. When I was in high school, the popular thing to do was find some guy whose parents were going out of town or something, buy a keg of beer with your money, and play beer pong all weekend. (I lived in a middle class area).

Of course all of them were flat broke, even though they all worked jobs, because they spent everything they had on beer, video games, and of course those useless overpriced shoes and jackets.

Warren Buffet, in high school, was saving money from a paper route, and buying pinball machine, so that he could earn more money. He was investing. Not consuming.

People consume all their money, then wonder why they are poor.

I make barely $20,000. Yet I have several thousand in the bank, and thousands in stocks. (invested through a couple of mutual funds in aggressive growth stocks) I've met people that make double what I do, and have no money.

And, under socialism, yes some people can move up the income ladder..... namely by moving up the political party. People promoted without skill or ability, but have the right connections. China famously had a guy make friends with a politician, and was elected to run a steel mill. The employees furious that this nobody that had a "friend" in high places, was now their boss, beat him to death.

Che Guevara famously put one of his buddies in charge of the Sugar cane fields. Of course he had no idea how to run the plantations, and production dropped dramatically.

So yeah, you can work your way up the income ladder in a Socialized system. It's called "corruption" in our country, but whatever floats your boat.
 
Capitalism needs rules because it would result in slavery. Ghettos are the result of capitalist slavery in America´s early years. Also, Ghettos result from a lack of government.
Just think about that statement for a moment. It's as absurd as saying "the sun results in total darkness".

By its very nature - pure capitalism is pure liberty. Rules are slavery. They tell a person what they can and can't do. When someone else is deciding for you what you can and can't do - you're not in complete control of your own life. That's a part of slavery.
In fact, pure naked capitalism has halted human progress in Europe for centuries. Strong governments like Rome on the other hand rose.

As we can sum up, capitalist slavery is the result from an absence of rules.

No, that's wrong. Pure capitalism, is not pure liberty. Because if you have pure liberty, there is no confines of justices and property rights.

If I can't own anything..... that in, and of itself.... prevents the capitalist system. You have to have the ability to own something. And the rights of ownership, have to be protected.

If I can legally own something, but it doesn't matter because anyone can steal it, or take it by force... then regardless of what the law says I still have no property rights. So under that situation there still is no capitalism.

None of that is capitalism. You can't have capitalism without law, and law enforcement. Doesn't work.

Your basic claim is fundamentally illogical and ridiculous.
 
And I would argue that all of those ghettos and projects, and abandoned neighborhoods, are not examples of Capitalism, but rather of socialism.

The most obvious being the "projects". What do you think "projects" means? It's government public housing. Well if government is running it, paying for it, controlling it.... that's not Capitalism. That's socialism.

All the 'projects' that have failed across this country, can't be blamed on capitalism, because under capitalism, they never would have existed.

Slums and ghettos in the US, I would also argue are largely due to government. One of the primary reasons people stay poor, is because government teaches them to live off government. Which again... is socialism. Not Capitalism. Capitalism, people live off their work.

Most of these slums and ghettos, the majority of the people are living off of welfare, and food stamps, and section 8 housing. In fact one of the quickest ways to create a slum, is to make the area section 8.

Back in the 90s, I worked at Wendy's, and a lady came in, and told us she had to work X number of days until she could get back on Welfare, and then she was gone. Sure enough on the day she qualified for welfare, she stopped showing up for work.

The number one way any person moves up out of poverty, is by working, which gives them experience and skills, to move up the income chain.

Quitting because you qualify for welfare, means that you never get beyond entry level. Which means you stay in poverty, and the slums, for life.

It's a system that only exists because of socialism. Socialism, literally harms everyone. Capitalism benefits everyone.

Welfare, and other government programs, not only harm the welfare recipient, but it also harms all the working people who have to pay for the welfare recipient, and not only that it also harms the fabric of society, because working people hate the lazy slob not working, and the lazy slob hates the working people.

Socialism is the socioeconomic version of cancer, that destroys everything it touches.
I don´t agree.

The most obvious being the "projects". What do you think "projects" means? It's government public housing. Well if government is running it, paying for it, controlling it.... that's not Capitalism. That's socialism.
It is capitalism. Capitalism accumulates so much wealth on a small group of people that some are unable to pay for their own livelihood and need assistance even if they have two or three jobs. If you say no we do not make projects, those people would not disappear but pose an even larger problem. Pure capitalism.


Slums and ghettos in the US, I would also argue are largely due to government. One of the primary reasons people stay poor, is because government teaches them to live off government. Which again... is socialism. Not Capitalism. Capitalism, people live off their work.
Capitalism needs rules because it would result in slavery. Ghettos are the result of capitalist slavery in America´s early years. Also, Ghettos result from a lack of government.


Most of these slums and ghettos, the majority of the people are living off of welfare, and food stamps, and section 8 housing. In fact one of the quickest ways to create a slum, is to make the area section 8.
No, not the majority. In some, maybe. Government welfare is a tool to deal with the insufficiencies of capitalism. Capitalism and civilization are opposites. This is not a plea against market economy but against the law of the jungle.


Back in the 90s, I worked at Wendy's, and a lady came in, and told us she had to work X number of days until she could get back on Welfare, and then she was gone. Sure enough on the day she qualified for welfare, she stopped showing up for work.

The number one way any person moves up out of poverty, is by working, which gives them experience and skills, to move up the income chain.

Quitting because you qualify for welfare, means that you never get beyond entry level. Which means you stay in poverty, and the slums, for life.
That smart woman knows there is no from rag to riches. Her behavior is capitalist and aims to get the most out of the least. She does what you are actually demanding.

I don´t agree.


You have the right to be wrong.

It is capitalism. Capitalism accumulates so much wealth on a small group of people that some are unable to pay for their own livelihood and need assistance even if they have two or three jobs. If you say no we do not make projects, those people would not disappear but pose an even larger problem. Pure capitalism.

Wrong. Not true.

Capitalism does not require, or cause, people to be unable to pay for their own livelihood.

What capitalism does, is allow people to make choices. In socialism, in the pre-78 China, I have to work in the rice fields for the rest of my life. I don't have a choice in the matter. Which allows you to only earn as much as me, and we all get the same wage, some shelter, same food, same life. We have no hope, and no future. We are born poor, live poor, and die poor.

But.... we have a guaranteed income.

In Capitalism, you choose what you do. If you work at Burger King until you die, flipping whoopers, then you live a meager life until you die. But you don't have to. No one has to. They can choose to do something else.

Doug McMillon current CEO of walmart, started of working in the distribution center, unloading trucks. Seasonal job, during the summer, earning a few bucks and hour, unloading trucks.

Did he stay there? No, he went to college, got a degree, learned management skills, and then applied to move up to a new position. Then a another position. And kept moving every year or two, to a new spot in the company, and now he's CEO.

And here's the real kicker of Capitalism. Everyone is a capitalist. I'm a capitalist. You are a capitalist.

The only difference between the rich capitalist, and the poor capitalist, is whether they choose to invest their money, or blow it. If you spend all your money, you'll be the poor capitalist. If you invest your money, you'll be the rich capitalist, even if you make very little relatively speaking.

Janitor secretly amassed an $8 million fortune, left most of it to library and hospital

This guy worked as a janitor his entire life. End up with $8 Million. How? Saved and invested. Real simple. He saved up money, and invested into stocks of companies he liked.

Do you know Warren Buffet got to where he is? When he was in high school, he saved up money from a paper route, and bought a pinball machine. He then placed the pinball machine in a local business where it made more money.

Anyone can be a Buffet. Anyone. It's simply that people choose not to. I have a co-worker that bought a bran new car, on 24% interest, because he just couldn't stand not having a new car any longer. He's destined to be poor.

Years and years ago, a had a roommate, that spent every single penny they earned, from Friday's check, until they were flat broke by Thursday. I tried to give some simple advice, that saving up some money would be wise, and I was told I was being 'critical' of them.

So I never said anything again. Then their alternator blew on their car, and they has absolutely no money to fix it.

This is Capitalism. They earned more money than be by far, yet they were broke, and I had cash in the bank.

Capitalism is freedom of people to make choices and reap the consequences of those choices. For me, the choice to live frugally and invest, means I have cash in the bank, and stocks in large corporations.... even though I earned just $19,000 last year.

For others, Capitalism is the freedom to blow their money on things they desire, and have no money left.

Point being, "capitalism" doesn't cause wealth to accumulated in the hands of the few. The freedom of people, causes wealth to accumulate in the hands of the few.

Socialism is simply denying people the ability to choose. When you take away choices, and make people slaves of the state, then magically everyone has the same level of wealth. Granted... an impoverished amount of wealth... but at least it's equal impoverishment... right?

Capitalism needs rules because it would result in slavery. Ghettos are the result of capitalist slavery in America´s early years. Also, Ghettos result from a lack of government.

Nah, that's garbage. It's not even logical. Many socialist systems had slaves. Soviets were massive numbers of slavers, and unlike American slave owners, literally worked them to death, some cases intentionally. So was Maoist China.

If anything, a fundamental aspect of Capitalism, is property rights. How can you ever have capitalism, if you can't own property? Well if you are slave, that undermines the core aspect of property rights. Slaves can't own other things.

So by it's nature, slavery subverts Capitalism. And that's about the only connection between capitalism and slavery.

No, not the majority. In some, maybe. Government welfare is a tool to deal with the insufficiencies of capitalism. Capitalism and civilization are opposites. This is not a plea against market economy but against the law of the jungle.

Nearly all. Not some, or even a minority. Nearly all. Hilliard is a small suburb, and even here we introduced a section 8 housing area, and already it's a disaster. Police are there all the time. The place is trashed. I'm currently supporting an effort to force the city to close the section 8, and get rid of the dope smoking hoodlums there.

I don't really care what you call it. Fact is, it causes the very thing you claim it exists to remedy.

During the welfare reform of the 1990s, the local station sent a reporter to dig up one of these people that was going to get cut off. She found some lady, and she was saying she'll have to get a job, and the reporter asked "How devastating will this be for you and your kids?"

The lady responded "Oh we'll be better off. I'll have more money for the family when I get a job"

The reporter was shocked.... stuttered a bit "Well uh... Why didn't you get a job sooner?"

"I didn't have to".

Government programs do not help people out of poverty. They keep people in poverty. You don't help anyone. You harm everyone. You harm them, by keeping them in poverty. You harm us, the people who work paying for your crappy programs. And you harm society, because we hate those lazy ticks sucking the blood out of our butts, and they hate us because living off government strips away dignity and pride of providing for ones self.

There is not one good aspect to your programs, except that it allows you to live inside the myth that you are good person because someone ELSE is paying money to the poor.

That smart woman knows there is no from rag to riches. Her behavior is capitalist and aims to get the most out of the least. She does what you are actually demanding

Completely illogical statement. In a Capitalists system of voluntary exchange, she would not be able to force others to pay for her being lazy.

You are just stupid now. You want to just make up random personal definitions of words, so you can live in the make-believe that it fits your argument?

If you can't argue logically, then you are disqualified from this discussion.
Even in socialism people move up the career ladder when they are excel in their job. Your few cases of from rag to riches do not mean everyone has the choice to become rich. You are glorifying a system and don´t allow criticism. We all were billionaires if it was true what you say. The best mix of socialism and capitalism has to be found and applied.

Yes, actually it does mean that. Everyone can be rich. Everyone can. Every single person has the ability to live on less than they make, and save and invest.

Again, Warren Buffet didn't become a billionaire by random chance, or by excessive brilliance. He simply didn't blow his money on crap. It's the Pinball people verses the Beer Pong people. When I was in high school, the popular thing to do was find some guy whose parents were going out of town or something, buy a keg of beer with your money, and play beer pong all weekend. (I lived in a middle class area).

Of course all of them were flat broke, even though they all worked jobs, because they spent everything they had on beer, video games, and of course those useless overpriced shoes and jackets.

Warren Buffet, in high school, was saving money from a paper route, and buying pinball machine, so that he could earn more money. He was investing. Not consuming.

People consume all their money, then wonder why they are poor.

I make barely $20,000. Yet I have several thousand in the bank, and thousands in stocks. (invested through a couple of mutual funds in aggressive growth stocks) I've met people that make double what I do, and have no money.

And, under socialism, yes some people can move up the income ladder..... namely by moving up the political party. People promoted without skill or ability, but have the right connections. China famously had a guy make friends with a politician, and was elected to run a steel mill. The employees furious that this nobody that had a "friend" in high places, was now their boss, beat him to death.

Che Guevara famously put one of his buddies in charge of the Sugar cane fields. Of course he had no idea how to run the plantations, and production dropped dramatically.

So yeah, you can work your way up the income ladder in a Socialized system. It's called "corruption" in our country, but whatever floats your boat.
You know that sounds kinda silly. At first, there is no benefit of money if you don´t spend it. Second, a pinball machine does not earn bullions. Third, if all would buy a pinball machine, nobody would spend money at a pinball machine.

While Capitalism does indeed provide more chances to become rich, it also provides more chances to become poor. It is ignorant to say all those workers and poor could have been millionaires. Socialism on the other hand prevents you from falling out of the society. There are no barrel ovens, bums, starving people.
 
Capitalism needs rules because it would result in slavery. Ghettos are the result of capitalist slavery in America´s early years. Also, Ghettos result from a lack of government.
Just think about that statement for a moment. It's as absurd as saying "the sun results in total darkness".

By its very nature - pure capitalism is pure liberty. Rules are slavery. They tell a person what they can and can't do. When someone else is deciding for you what you can and can't do - you're not in complete control of your own life. That's a part of slavery.
In fact, pure naked capitalism has halted human progress in Europe for centuries. Strong governments like Rome on the other hand rose.

As we can sum up, capitalist slavery is the result from an absence of rules.

No, that's wrong. Pure capitalism, is not pure liberty. Because if you have pure liberty, there is no confines of justices and property rights.

If I can't own anything..... that in, and of itself.... prevents the capitalist system. You have to have the ability to own something. And the rights of ownership, have to be protected.

If I can legally own something, but it doesn't matter because anyone can steal it, or take it by force... then regardless of what the law says I still have no property rights. So under that situation there still is no capitalism.

None of that is capitalism. You can't have capitalism without law, and law enforcement. Doesn't work.

Your basic claim is fundamentally illogical and ridiculous.
I actually claim that Capitalism needs rules.
 
Slavery is immoral. Which begs the question - why are you left-winger so desperate to enslave everyone?
you are the one begging that question. We have a Commerce Clause.
So you think the "Commerce Clause" legalizes slavery?!? :lmao:
You are the one "begging the question".
Well duh. When someone makes a comment as astoundingly stupid as "the commerce clause legalizes slavery" it requires intelligent people to ask questions.
it is Your question. You are the one, begging that question. that is why, i don't take the right wing seriously.
 
Yes, government policy is command economics.
It's "government policy" to arrest, prosecute, and imprison murders. What does that have to do with the economy?

(Hint: nothing)

You want so desperately to convince everyone that we already have a "planned economy" so that you can work toward an actual planned economy. It's not working snowflake. Unfortunately for you, we're all exponentially smarter than you are.
command economics, not free market spending. Only the right wing, never gets it.

We got a War on Drugs instead of a market friendly, Mission to Mars, by Nixon.
 
We got a War on Drugs instead of a market friendly, Mission to Mars
Because drugs have a major impact on our world. A "mission to Mars" would do nothing except fulfill your bizarre little fantasies.
Just socialism on a national basis. The right wing, merely likes to waste money repeating historical mistakes, and then claiming they are not really like that, afterward.

A Mission to Mars would do more to "change our world".
 
And I would argue that all of those ghettos and projects, and abandoned neighborhoods, are not examples of Capitalism, but rather of socialism.

The most obvious being the "projects". What do you think "projects" means? It's government public housing. Well if government is running it, paying for it, controlling it.... that's not Capitalism. That's socialism.

All the 'projects' that have failed across this country, can't be blamed on capitalism, because under capitalism, they never would have existed.

Slums and ghettos in the US, I would also argue are largely due to government. One of the primary reasons people stay poor, is because government teaches them to live off government. Which again... is socialism. Not Capitalism. Capitalism, people live off their work.

Most of these slums and ghettos, the majority of the people are living off of welfare, and food stamps, and section 8 housing. In fact one of the quickest ways to create a slum, is to make the area section 8.

Back in the 90s, I worked at Wendy's, and a lady came in, and told us she had to work X number of days until she could get back on Welfare, and then she was gone. Sure enough on the day she qualified for welfare, she stopped showing up for work.

The number one way any person moves up out of poverty, is by working, which gives them experience and skills, to move up the income chain.

Quitting because you qualify for welfare, means that you never get beyond entry level. Which means you stay in poverty, and the slums, for life.

It's a system that only exists because of socialism. Socialism, literally harms everyone. Capitalism benefits everyone.

Welfare, and other government programs, not only harm the welfare recipient, but it also harms all the working people who have to pay for the welfare recipient, and not only that it also harms the fabric of society, because working people hate the lazy slob not working, and the lazy slob hates the working people.

Socialism is the socioeconomic version of cancer, that destroys everything it touches.
I don´t agree.

The most obvious being the "projects". What do you think "projects" means? It's government public housing. Well if government is running it, paying for it, controlling it.... that's not Capitalism. That's socialism.
It is capitalism. Capitalism accumulates so much wealth on a small group of people that some are unable to pay for their own livelihood and need assistance even if they have two or three jobs. If you say no we do not make projects, those people would not disappear but pose an even larger problem. Pure capitalism.


Slums and ghettos in the US, I would also argue are largely due to government. One of the primary reasons people stay poor, is because government teaches them to live off government. Which again... is socialism. Not Capitalism. Capitalism, people live off their work.
Capitalism needs rules because it would result in slavery. Ghettos are the result of capitalist slavery in America´s early years. Also, Ghettos result from a lack of government.


Most of these slums and ghettos, the majority of the people are living off of welfare, and food stamps, and section 8 housing. In fact one of the quickest ways to create a slum, is to make the area section 8.
No, not the majority. In some, maybe. Government welfare is a tool to deal with the insufficiencies of capitalism. Capitalism and civilization are opposites. This is not a plea against market economy but against the law of the jungle.


Back in the 90s, I worked at Wendy's, and a lady came in, and told us she had to work X number of days until she could get back on Welfare, and then she was gone. Sure enough on the day she qualified for welfare, she stopped showing up for work.

The number one way any person moves up out of poverty, is by working, which gives them experience and skills, to move up the income chain.

Quitting because you qualify for welfare, means that you never get beyond entry level. Which means you stay in poverty, and the slums, for life.
That smart woman knows there is no from rag to riches. Her behavior is capitalist and aims to get the most out of the least. She does what you are actually demanding.

I don´t agree.


You have the right to be wrong.

It is capitalism. Capitalism accumulates so much wealth on a small group of people that some are unable to pay for their own livelihood and need assistance even if they have two or three jobs. If you say no we do not make projects, those people would not disappear but pose an even larger problem. Pure capitalism.

Wrong. Not true.

Capitalism does not require, or cause, people to be unable to pay for their own livelihood.

What capitalism does, is allow people to make choices. In socialism, in the pre-78 China, I have to work in the rice fields for the rest of my life. I don't have a choice in the matter. Which allows you to only earn as much as me, and we all get the same wage, some shelter, same food, same life. We have no hope, and no future. We are born poor, live poor, and die poor.

But.... we have a guaranteed income.

In Capitalism, you choose what you do. If you work at Burger King until you die, flipping whoopers, then you live a meager life until you die. But you don't have to. No one has to. They can choose to do something else.

Doug McMillon current CEO of walmart, started of working in the distribution center, unloading trucks. Seasonal job, during the summer, earning a few bucks and hour, unloading trucks.

Did he stay there? No, he went to college, got a degree, learned management skills, and then applied to move up to a new position. Then a another position. And kept moving every year or two, to a new spot in the company, and now he's CEO.

And here's the real kicker of Capitalism. Everyone is a capitalist. I'm a capitalist. You are a capitalist.

The only difference between the rich capitalist, and the poor capitalist, is whether they choose to invest their money, or blow it. If you spend all your money, you'll be the poor capitalist. If you invest your money, you'll be the rich capitalist, even if you make very little relatively speaking.

Janitor secretly amassed an $8 million fortune, left most of it to library and hospital

This guy worked as a janitor his entire life. End up with $8 Million. How? Saved and invested. Real simple. He saved up money, and invested into stocks of companies he liked.

Do you know Warren Buffet got to where he is? When he was in high school, he saved up money from a paper route, and bought a pinball machine. He then placed the pinball machine in a local business where it made more money.

Anyone can be a Buffet. Anyone. It's simply that people choose not to. I have a co-worker that bought a bran new car, on 24% interest, because he just couldn't stand not having a new car any longer. He's destined to be poor.

Years and years ago, a had a roommate, that spent every single penny they earned, from Friday's check, until they were flat broke by Thursday. I tried to give some simple advice, that saving up some money would be wise, and I was told I was being 'critical' of them.

So I never said anything again. Then their alternator blew on their car, and they has absolutely no money to fix it.

This is Capitalism. They earned more money than be by far, yet they were broke, and I had cash in the bank.

Capitalism is freedom of people to make choices and reap the consequences of those choices. For me, the choice to live frugally and invest, means I have cash in the bank, and stocks in large corporations.... even though I earned just $19,000 last year.

For others, Capitalism is the freedom to blow their money on things they desire, and have no money left.

Point being, "capitalism" doesn't cause wealth to accumulated in the hands of the few. The freedom of people, causes wealth to accumulate in the hands of the few.

Socialism is simply denying people the ability to choose. When you take away choices, and make people slaves of the state, then magically everyone has the same level of wealth. Granted... an impoverished amount of wealth... but at least it's equal impoverishment... right?

Capitalism needs rules because it would result in slavery. Ghettos are the result of capitalist slavery in America´s early years. Also, Ghettos result from a lack of government.

Nah, that's garbage. It's not even logical. Many socialist systems had slaves. Soviets were massive numbers of slavers, and unlike American slave owners, literally worked them to death, some cases intentionally. So was Maoist China.

If anything, a fundamental aspect of Capitalism, is property rights. How can you ever have capitalism, if you can't own property? Well if you are slave, that undermines the core aspect of property rights. Slaves can't own other things.

So by it's nature, slavery subverts Capitalism. And that's about the only connection between capitalism and slavery.

No, not the majority. In some, maybe. Government welfare is a tool to deal with the insufficiencies of capitalism. Capitalism and civilization are opposites. This is not a plea against market economy but against the law of the jungle.

Nearly all. Not some, or even a minority. Nearly all. Hilliard is a small suburb, and even here we introduced a section 8 housing area, and already it's a disaster. Police are there all the time. The place is trashed. I'm currently supporting an effort to force the city to close the section 8, and get rid of the dope smoking hoodlums there.

I don't really care what you call it. Fact is, it causes the very thing you claim it exists to remedy.

During the welfare reform of the 1990s, the local station sent a reporter to dig up one of these people that was going to get cut off. She found some lady, and she was saying she'll have to get a job, and the reporter asked "How devastating will this be for you and your kids?"

The lady responded "Oh we'll be better off. I'll have more money for the family when I get a job"

The reporter was shocked.... stuttered a bit "Well uh... Why didn't you get a job sooner?"

"I didn't have to".

Government programs do not help people out of poverty. They keep people in poverty. You don't help anyone. You harm everyone. You harm them, by keeping them in poverty. You harm us, the people who work paying for your crappy programs. And you harm society, because we hate those lazy ticks sucking the blood out of our butts, and they hate us because living off government strips away dignity and pride of providing for ones self.

There is not one good aspect to your programs, except that it allows you to live inside the myth that you are good person because someone ELSE is paying money to the poor.

That smart woman knows there is no from rag to riches. Her behavior is capitalist and aims to get the most out of the least. She does what you are actually demanding

Completely illogical statement. In a Capitalists system of voluntary exchange, she would not be able to force others to pay for her being lazy.

You are just stupid now. You want to just make up random personal definitions of words, so you can live in the make-believe that it fits your argument?

If you can't argue logically, then you are disqualified from this discussion.
Even in socialism people move up the career ladder when they are excel in their job. Your few cases of from rag to riches do not mean everyone has the choice to become rich. You are glorifying a system and don´t allow criticism. We all were billionaires if it was true what you say. The best mix of socialism and capitalism has to be found and applied.

Yes, actually it does mean that. Everyone can be rich. Everyone can. Every single person has the ability to live on less than they make, and save and invest.

Again, Warren Buffet didn't become a billionaire by random chance, or by excessive brilliance. He simply didn't blow his money on crap. It's the Pinball people verses the Beer Pong people. When I was in high school, the popular thing to do was find some guy whose parents were going out of town or something, buy a keg of beer with your money, and play beer pong all weekend. (I lived in a middle class area).

Of course all of them were flat broke, even though they all worked jobs, because they spent everything they had on beer, video games, and of course those useless overpriced shoes and jackets.

Warren Buffet, in high school, was saving money from a paper route, and buying pinball machine, so that he could earn more money. He was investing. Not consuming.

People consume all their money, then wonder why they are poor.

I make barely $20,000. Yet I have several thousand in the bank, and thousands in stocks. (invested through a couple of mutual funds in aggressive growth stocks) I've met people that make double what I do, and have no money.

And, under socialism, yes some people can move up the income ladder..... namely by moving up the political party. People promoted without skill or ability, but have the right connections. China famously had a guy make friends with a politician, and was elected to run a steel mill. The employees furious that this nobody that had a "friend" in high places, was now their boss, beat him to death.

Che Guevara famously put one of his buddies in charge of the Sugar cane fields. Of course he had no idea how to run the plantations, and production dropped dramatically.

So yeah, you can work your way up the income ladder in a Socialized system. It's called "corruption" in our country, but whatever floats your boat.
You know that sounds kinda silly. At first, there is no benefit of money if you don´t spend it. Second, a pinball machine does not earn bullions. Third, if all would buy a pinball machine, nobody would spend money at a pinball machine.

While Capitalism does indeed provide more chances to become rich, it also provides more chances to become poor. It is ignorant to say all those workers and poor could have been millionaires. Socialism on the other hand prevents you from falling out of the society. There are no barrel ovens, bums, starving people.

a pinball machine does not earn bullions

Oh come on man! I am describing a pattern of living, that has good results. Of course a pinball machine doesn't make billions. But if you are saving and investing, and making money as a high school sophomore, it's that pattern of behavior, that leads you to wealth.

By the time Warren Buffet left college, he had over $100,000 net worth. Again, not rocket science. That one pinball machine, turned into three or four pinball machines, and then he sold the business, and walked away with $15,000 plus the profits from the machines while he ran it.

That was just over one summer. He used that money to buy farm land, that he leased. And made more money on that.

Now what would a modern American kid have done? Even if by chance they were wise enough to do the pinball machine deal, they would have blown the $15K on a car or something, that falls in value like a rock.

Buffet again, invested, and made money.

there is no benefit of money if you don´t spend it

And it's that mentality that results in you being poor.

I'll give you another example. Two people that both got $10 Million dollars.

Sharon Tirabassi in 2004 or around there, won $10 Million dollars from the lottery. You can see pictures of her, in expensive outfits, driving an expensive car, at a new apartment, living it up. By 2014, she was without a car, without a home, living in a subsidized apartment, riding the bus to her job. Utterly impoverished.

But hey, there's no benefit of money if you don't spend it! Well she spent it, now she's broke.

On the other side you have Steve Jobs. When Steve Jobs left Apple computer in the late 80s, (forced out I should say), he had a check for $10 Million dollars. Now he could have done the same thing as Sharon, and lived it up! Bought some luxury yachts. Maybe a super mansion.

Instead, he invested the money into a new company. A bran new computer graphics and special effects company. He paid half the money to get the company. And used the rest of the money to build the company up, and upgrade their stuff, and hire people. That company grew year after year until they put out their first all original product in 1995 named.... "Toy Story". The company is now called Pixar.

In 2006, Disney bought Pixar from Steve Jobs for stock worth $7.8 Billion dollars. He turned $10 Million into $7.8 Billion. While Sharon turned $10 Million into zero.

This is the difference between the pinball people, and the beer pong people. This is why poor people are poor, and rich people are rich. Rich people save and invest, and poor people spend and consume.

Third, if all would buy a pinball machine, nobody would spend money at a pinball machine.

Don't be so dense. What is wrong with you? You really think the only way to make money is pinball machines?

There is literally limitless ways to make money. You can make money doing almost anything. Almost ANYTHING.

I remember years ago, there was a truck driving lady. She would drive into the truck stop, where all the other truckers were, and pull out of her cab, this fold up swivel chair, and massive clipper, and tiny vacuum, and a bunch of gels and crap, and yell out "I'll clip your hair for $10". And these guys would line up, and get their hair cut at the truck stop.

I live in a Condo, and this kid would walk over from the houses every spring. Because our front stoops needed to be painted every year. So he'd walk around painting the stoops for $20, and for another $15, he'd buy the paint. Walk away with $1,000 over the weekend.

At my company we have a little old lady, got to be in her 60s, that owns the snack machines in the break room. She comes in every other week, collects her cash, stocks the machine, and waddles out.

I just bought online, for a project (long story), 250 bread bag clips. Some person collects those bread bag clips, and sells them online, in bags of 50, for $8 each.
il_570xN.711709094_ktlb.jpeg

Now if you are like most people, you are asking, why the heck are you buying these for? It's a long boring story. But they have over 200 feedback reviews, so it's not just me.

Point is, you can make money doing almost.... almost ANYTHING. That doesn't mean everything you do will be fantastically profitable. Some of the things Buffet did, didn't turn out real well. But he just kept saving and investing, until he found stuff that worked.

That's the point.

While Capitalism does indeed provide more chances to become rich, it also provides more chances to become poor. It is ignorant to say all those workers and poor could have been millionaires. Socialism on the other hand prevents you from falling out of the society. There are no barrel ovens, bums, starving people.


Entirely wrong.

Capitalism does not offer more chances to become poor.

The poor of Cuba live lives that would be astonishing to the poor of America. Our poor live like royalty compared to the Socialist poor.

Starving Venezuelans are giving away their children to survive

Parents in socialist Venezuela are literally..... LITERALLY giving away their children. Because they are flat out.... starving to death.

In America.... our poor people have an obesity problem.

It is not ignorant to say that all those workers and poor could be millionaires.

It's actually fact.

I'll prove it with numbers. You can do math right?

I have a mutual fund that currently has a 13% year-over-year return. Let's drop that to 10%, and call that good.

Say you work at Wendy's, and earn the bare minimum wage. Now that's hard. Because if you work full time, you automatically earn more than minimum wage. But let's say you suck so bad as an employee, that you earn flat $7.25 an hour, 40 hours a week.

That's $15,000 a year. Now FICA taxes you at 15.3%. That's $177 a month.

If you invested.... just $177 into my mutual fund, from working age, that's 20 years old, until you are 60, at 10% annual return (again mine has a 13% return)... by the time you are age 60... you will have over a million dollars.

Screen Shot 2017-03-31 at 4.29.35 PM.png

Now that's assuming that you work 40 YEARS..... and never get a raise. Oh and if you actually get married (which married men and women, who... stay married... routinely out earn those who don't), and your spouse also earns the absolute minimum wage, and you double that amount, obviously you are going to be a multimillionaire.

I know what you are saying 'yeah but they can't get that $177 from their FICA tax'.... you are right. Whose fault is that? (you have a mirror somewhere in your house I assume).

Which goes to your last statement.

Socialism does not prevent people from falling out of society. It is actually the direct cause of it.

You tax away our money, then claim "see capitalism makes people poor". No, socialism makes people poor. If we allowed people to take all the money you tax away from them, and put it into investments, everyone in this entire country would be millionaires. Everyone. Absolutely everyone.

Instead, you give them social security, which has an AVERAGE.... monthly payout of just $1300. That's the AVERAGE. That means 50% of the people on social security (because you taxed away their potential savings), are collecting a pay of less... LESS than $1300. That's LESS than the minimum wage.

That's poverty. You are dooming the majority of people in this country to object poverty in retirement.

Capitalism, if they had invested that money you stole from them... they'd be millionaires, or close to it.
 
Don't be so dense. What is wrong with you? You really think the only way to make money is pinball machines?
If I am investing my money it is not going into your pinball machine, right? It is totally irrelevant in what I invest. It is not going into your pinball machine.


Point is, you can make money doing almost.... almost ANYTHING.
Workers can´t put their money at risk. They have to do a living.



The poor of Cuba live lives that would be astonishing to the poor of America. Our poor live like royalty compared to the Socialist poor.
Both get food stamps. However, Cuba is sanctioned, has no access to the global trade. So it is sanctions in the first place that do harm the country,


Parents in socialist Venezuela are literally..... LITERALLY giving away their children. Because they are flat out.... starving to death.
Propaganda. The private food companies run short the food. A capitalist and anti-social, anti-civilization measure to create the crisis to mount pressure on the government and profit from the crisis.


You tax away our money, then claim "see capitalism makes people poor". No, socialism makes people poor.
Actually, if capitalism would make rich, socialism would not exist, would not have been invented. A socialist company does not fire people. People cannot get fired in socialism. And if the cake has 6 pieces in socialism, it will be shared by 6 people, not by one. In fact, true socialism means the rule of the workers, capitalism means the rule of the industrialists and bankers. What´s more democratic?
 

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