The ultimate 2nd amendment poll!

[eflatminor]

You all just don't get it. I am willing to accept that a certain number of people must die today for your and mines second admendment right. I just want to know if there is ANY number killed that would then percipatate a call for gun control.

Why, when we know "gun control" does not keep guns out of the hands of evil doers?
England banned guns. Crime, with and without a gun, skyrocketed. Australia banned guns. Crime, with and without a gun, rose even more. The US cities and states with the most gun control laws have the highest rates of violence and crime.

So what's the point of calling for more gun control?

Or is this all just about what FEELS right?

Hey was the dude that killed the kid over a loud stero, was he an "evil doer'. Or just crazy with his concealed carry permit. Standing his ground. Over loud music. That he parked by.

You want a loved one shot to death over something that stupid?

Wait, I thought you said you weren't calling for more gun control?

Anyway, the answer is "no", I wouldn't want to see someone shot over something that stupid.

Of course, that doesn't mean I think gun control measures would prevent such stupidity...which is pretty much the point.

 

[zeke]

Why, when we know "gun control" does not keep guns out of the hands of evil doers?
England banned guns. Crime, with and without a gun, skyrocketed. Australia banned guns. Crime, with and without a gun, rose even more. The US cities and states with the most gun control laws have the highest rates of violence and crime.

So what's the point of calling for more gun control?

Or is this all just about what FEELS right?

Hey was the dude that killed the kid over a loud stero, was he an "evil doer'. Or just crazy with his concealed carry permit. Standing his ground. Over loud music. That he parked by.

You want a loved one shot to death over something that stupid?

Wait, I thought you said you weren't calling for more gun control?

Anyway, the answer is "no", I wouldn't want to see someone shot over something that stupid.

Of course, that doesn't mean I think gun control measures would prevent such stupidity...which is pretty much the point.

No I am not calling for more gun control. I am calling for more acceptance of stupid gun deaths.

And understand that as more and more people are carrying concealed, with an attitude, that more and more senseless gun deaths will happen. It's just a numbers game dude. More people carrying more guns results in more gun deaths.

it's not rocket science. Accept it. Embrace it and don't leave home without your 9mil.

 

[rightwinger]

Anyone selling a drone with Hellfire missiles?

I'll take two

 

[Borillar]

Woooo...I think the 2nd amendment is very clear. Any weapon the government has, the people should have. We will need to be on equal footing if we ever want to overthrow the government like we overthrew the one in the late 18th century. That is the purpose of the 2nd amendment. I will let this picture explain it more easily:

Yes, the nutjob down the street should have tactical nukes in his basement because "any weapon the government has, the people should have." You should be able to have weaponized anthrax and VX nerve gas because the government has it.

When the founders created the Constitution, the weapons of the day were single shot muzzle loading muskets and rifles. They didn't envision weapons that could level an entire city or kill every living thing on the planet. If they could have foreseen these weapons, I bet they would have worded the 2nd amendment very differently.

If you want to bring this discussion down to what weapons an infantry soldier carries should be available to ordinary citizens, that is more reasonable, yet still too much. The carnage that can be caused just by semi-automatic weapons is considerable, but at least it won't take out whole cities. Just scores of ordinary people. Coming soon to a theater or shopping mall near you.

 

[eflatminor]

Hey was the dude that killed the kid over a loud stero, was he an "evil doer'. Or just crazy with his concealed carry permit. Standing his ground. Over loud music. That he parked by.

You want a loved one shot to death over something that stupid?

Wait, I thought you said you weren't calling for more gun control?

Anyway, the answer is "no", I wouldn't want to see someone shot over something that stupid.

Of course, that doesn't mean I think gun control measures would prevent such stupidity...which is pretty much the point.

No I am not calling for more gun control. I am calling for more acceptance of stupid gun deaths.

And understand that as more and more people are carrying concealed, with an attitude, that more and more senseless gun deaths will happen. It's just a numbers game dude. More people carrying more guns results in more gun deaths.

it's not rocket science. Accept it. Embrace it and don't leave home without your 9mil.

I accept stupid people will do stupid things that will result in death and harm to others...with or without a firearm.

However, when you state that more conceal carry licenses will result in more stupid (senseless) deaths, I would suggest you overlook a key consequence of the conceal carry movement.

"Senseless" deaths by firearm take many forms, including the thugs that kill during the commission of a crime. Certainly, when a store clerk gets blown away or an innocent homeowner shot during a burglary, it's senseless.

What we know is that statistically, where conceal carry permits have been issued, violent crime rates and "gun crime" tend to decrease.

So, while you have a point when you suggest the more conceal carry permits out there, the more likely we'll see the rare, but disturbing, incident of a legal gun owner shooting someone that really wasn't hurting him. However, I argue that number will be more than offset by a reduction in senseless deaths from the hands of a non-permit holding thugs, who are now less likely to attempt the crime or at least less likely to successfully kill or injure others in the course of committing their crime.

Overall, I argue conceal carry permits result in a safer society with fewer "senseless gun deaths", even when we include the extremely rare incidents of someone getting shot for something like loud music. So at the end of the day, I agree with you, we need to accept this.

 

[Darkwind]

You know what happened today?

The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in the United States is 270,000,0001
Karp, Aaron.2007.‘Completing the Count: Civilian firearms.’ Small Arms Survey 2007: Guns and the City.Cambridge:Cambridge University Press,27 August. (Q4)Full Citation

Any idea of how many people were killed by guns today?

Any of you leftists still think that gun ownership is a problem?

I sure see a whole lot of guns that were NOT used in crimes today, yesterday, and far into the future.

 

[eflatminor]

Yes, the nutjob down the street should have tactical nukes in his basement because "any weapon the government has, the people should have." You should be able to have weaponized anthrax and VX nerve gas because the government has it.

Bear arms means arms you can bear...as in your hands.

When the founders created the Constitution, the weapons of the day were single shot muzzle loading muskets and rifles.

Which is what the government, and the people, had. Same as today. Whatever rifle, sidearm, or fireARM the military has, the people can also have. True there are regulatory and licensing requirements for some of those weapons, but the people can own the same firearms the military has.

They didn't envision weapons that could level an entire city or kill every living thing on the planet. If they could have foreseen these weapons, I bet they would have worded the 2nd amendment very differently.

And you know this how?

If you want to bring this discussion down to what weapons an infantry soldier carries should be available to ordinary citizens, that is more reasonable, yet still too much. The carnage that can be caused just by semi-automatic weapons is considerable, but at least it won't take out whole cities. Just scores of ordinary people. Coming soon to a theater or shopping mall near you.

Yet we know no gun control will stop the maniacs you're referring to. We see them in the US and even in other countries that have banned all guns.

So, if you wish to remain unarmed, cowering in the corner of a gun free zone when the maniac shows up, that's your choice. Please don't impose your cowardice on others.

 

[zeke]

Wait, I thought you said you weren't calling for more gun control?

Anyway, the answer is "no", I wouldn't want to see someone shot over something that stupid.

Of course, that doesn't mean I think gun control measures would prevent such stupidity...which is pretty much the point.

No I am not calling for more gun control. I am calling for more acceptance of stupid gun deaths.

And understand that as more and more people are carrying concealed, with an attitude, that more and more senseless gun deaths will happen. It's just a numbers game dude. More people carrying more guns results in more gun deaths.

it's not rocket science. Accept it. Embrace it and don't leave home without your 9mil.

I accept stupid people will do stupid things that will result in death and harm to others...with or without a firearm.

However, when you state that more conceal carry licenses will result in more stupid (senseless) deaths, I would suggest you overlook a key consequence of the conceal carry movement.

"Senseless" deaths by firearm take many forms, including the thugs that kill during the commission of a crime. Certainly, when a store clerk gets blown away or an innocent homeowner shot during a burglary, it's senseless.

What we know is that statistically, where conceal carry permits have been issued, violent crime rates and "gun crime" tend to decrease.

So, while you have a point when you suggest the more conceal carry permits out there, the more likely we'll see the rare, but disturbing, incident of a legal gun owner shooting someone that really wasn't hurting him. However, I argue that number will be more than offset by a reduction in senseless deaths from the hands of a non-permit holding thugs, who are now less likely to attempt the crime or at least less likely to successfully kill or injure others in the course of committing their crime.

Overall, I argue conceal carry permits result in a safer society with fewer "senseless gun deaths", even when we include the extremely rare incidents of someone getting shot for something like loud music. So at the end of the day, I agree with you, we need to accept this.

Finally. Clarity. You know what is funny. If I am going into a situation where concealed carry makes sense, I am going to carry, permit or not. They need to get rid of the concealed carry permit requirement as well. Why should I have to do anything to concealed carry?

 

[Jarhead]

why in the fuk do you try and put guns and cars on the same level?

Is there an admentment to the COTUS about driving cars?

Or is your bullshit argument so weak that you can't think of anything better?

Just admit (like I do) that you will accept any level of gun violence. Along with the idea that cars kill people to.


And also accept that carrying a gun makes you a bad ass. You think Martin would have been confronted if the guy hadn't been carrying a gun? You think the guy would have told those kids to turn down the stero if he wasn't carrying a gun? Fuk no.

Face it dude. There are a lot of people carrying concealed just waiting for the "opportunity" to stand their ground. Makes you feel good doesn't it? Knowing that your kid could be shot over a loud stero cause some asshole is packing. And its all legal. Well the murder part isn't. But up till shooting the kid, all was well.

I put guns and cars on the same level as it pertains to items that can cause the death of innocent people if used improperly.....Thats why....not a very hard concept to understand. That is not a weak argunment or a lame comparison...unless you just want to be argumentative.

When some accidentally kills someone with a gun...it is an accident. When somebody accidentally kill someone with their car...it is an accident. When someone intentionally kills someone with a gun when they are not threatened, it is murder by a rogue individual. When someone intentionally gets behind the wheel of a car drunk and kills someone, it is murder by a rogue individual.

To call it a lame analogy is lame in itself....and I must believe you call it lame becuase it doesnt help your argument.

As for accepting ANY level of gun violence...I can not answer that. I have not sween a level of gun violence that disturbs me. Yes, I am saddened by accidental deaths by guns as well as innocent murders by guns.....but I have no idea how I will feel when it is so rampant, that it becomes a true debate.

I know one thing for sure.....if a person wants to kill someone, and they have no issue with killing someone, they will kill that person...be it by gun, bat, knife, poison...and yes...by intentionally hitting them with a car.

And I know one other thing for sure.....if I am approached by someone who wants to kill me, and guns were illegal....the prospective killer will be more likely to have a gun than I will.....for someone who is willing to break the law and murder will most certainly be willing to break the law and carry am illegal gun.

 

[zeke]

why in the fuk do you try and put guns and cars on the same level?

Is there an admentment to the COTUS about driving cars?

Or is your bullshit argument so weak that you can't think of anything better?

Just admit (like I do) that you will accept any level of gun violence. Along with the idea that cars kill people to.


And also accept that carrying a gun makes you a bad ass. You think Martin would have been confronted if the guy hadn't been carrying a gun? You think the guy would have told those kids to turn down the stero if he wasn't carrying a gun? Fuk no.

Face it dude. There are a lot of people carrying concealed just waiting for the "opportunity" to stand their ground. Makes you feel good doesn't it? Knowing that your kid could be shot over a loud stero cause some asshole is packing. And its all legal. Well the murder part isn't. But up till shooting the kid, all was well.

I put guns and cars on the same level as it pertains to items that can cause the death of innocent people if used improperly.....Thats why....not a very hard concept to understand. That is not a weak argunment or a lame comparison...unless you just want to be argumentative.

When some accidentally kills someone with a gun...it is an accident. When somebody accidentally kill someone with their car...it is an accident. When someone intentionally kills someone with a gun when they are not threatened, it is murder by a rogue individual. When someone intentionally gets behind the wheel of a car drunk and kills someone, it is murder by a rogue individual.

To call it a lame analogy is lame in itself....and I must believe you call it lame becuase it doesnt help your argument.

As for accepting ANY level of gun violence...I can not answer that. I have not sween a level of gun violence that disturbs me. Yes, I am saddened by accidental deaths by guns as well as innocent murders by guns.....but I have no idea how I will feel when it is so rampant, that it becomes a true debate.

I know one thing for sure.....if a person wants to kill someone, and they have no issue with killing someone, they will kill that person...be it by gun, bat, knife, poison...and yes...by intentionally hitting them with a car.

And I know one other thing for sure.....if I am approached by someone who wants to kill me, and guns were illegal....the prospective killer will be more likely to have a gun than I will.....for someone who is willing to break the law and murder will most certainly be willing to break the law and carry am illegal gun.

Why thats a fine logical argument that cars are just like guns.

But let me ask you this. If I am a drunk driver, wreck my car and kill someone, I have run the risk of killing myself in the accident as well.

If I pull my gun and shoot some one, am I at risk of shooting myself as well? PROBABLY NOT. At least I hope not.

And the part about wanting to kill someone. The dude in FL that killed the kid over loud music. You think he would have jumped out and started wailing away on 6 young teens in a car. Or did the gun give him the big balls walk and let him just start firing away?

You think it is easier to pull the trigger on someone or get up close and personal with a knife to kill? Or a ballbat.

Yea I hear the analogy about how all sorts of things can be killer. But there is NOTHING in this world, that almost anyone can get access to, that kills easier than a gun. Nothing.
Its what they were made for. A ball bat was not made for killing. A car was not made for killing. Hammers, electricity, poison, whatever you want to choose, only a gun was made with the idea of shooting someone.

 

[Jarhead]

why in the fuk do you try and put guns and cars on the same level?

Is there an admentment to the COTUS about driving cars?

Or is your bullshit argument so weak that you can't think of anything better?

Just admit (like I do) that you will accept any level of gun violence. Along with the idea that cars kill people to.


And also accept that carrying a gun makes you a bad ass. You think Martin would have been confronted if the guy hadn't been carrying a gun? You think the guy would have told those kids to turn down the stero if he wasn't carrying a gun? Fuk no.

Face it dude. There are a lot of people carrying concealed just waiting for the "opportunity" to stand their ground. Makes you feel good doesn't it? Knowing that your kid could be shot over a loud stero cause some asshole is packing. And its all legal. Well the murder part isn't. But up till shooting the kid, all was well.

I put guns and cars on the same level as it pertains to items that can cause the death of innocent people if used improperly.....Thats why....not a very hard concept to understand. That is not a weak argunment or a lame comparison...unless you just want to be argumentative.

When some accidentally kills someone with a gun...it is an accident. When somebody accidentally kill someone with their car...it is an accident. When someone intentionally kills someone with a gun when they are not threatened, it is murder by a rogue individual. When someone intentionally gets behind the wheel of a car drunk and kills someone, it is murder by a rogue individual.

To call it a lame analogy is lame in itself....and I must believe you call it lame becuase it doesnt help your argument.

As for accepting ANY level of gun violence...I can not answer that. I have not sween a level of gun violence that disturbs me. Yes, I am saddened by accidental deaths by guns as well as innocent murders by guns.....but I have no idea how I will feel when it is so rampant, that it becomes a true debate.

I know one thing for sure.....if a person wants to kill someone, and they have no issue with killing someone, they will kill that person...be it by gun, bat, knife, poison...and yes...by intentionally hitting them with a car.

And I know one other thing for sure.....if I am approached by someone who wants to kill me, and guns were illegal....the prospective killer will be more likely to have a gun than I will.....for someone who is willing to break the law and murder will most certainly be willing to break the law and carry am illegal gun.

Why thats a fine logical argument that cars are just like guns.

But let me ask you this. If I am a drunk driver, wreck my car and kill someone, I have run the risk of killing myself in the accident as well.

If I pull my gun and shoot some one, am I at risk of shooting myself as well? PROBABLY NOT. At least I hope not.

And the part about wanting to kill someone. The dude in FL that killed the kid over loud music. You think he would have jumped out and started wailing away on 6 young teens in a car. Or did the gun give him the big balls walk and let him just start firing away?

You think it is easier to pull the trigger on someone or get up close and personal with a knife to kill? Or a ballbat.

Yea I hear the analogy about how all sorts of things can be killer. But there is NOTHING in this world, that almost anyone can get access to, that kills easier than a gun. Nothing.
Its what they were made for. A ball bat was not made for killing. A car was not made for killing. Hammers, electricity, poison, whatever you want to choose, only a gun was made with the idea of shooting someone.

True...a drunk driver may kill himself as well....just as a dude that takes out a gun leaves himself open to being shot by the guy he assumes is UNARMED but not.

The guy in florida...may he rot in hell...is an example of a rogue individual...and no, without the gun, there would have likely been no deaths.

What an item is made for is irrelevant.....but oif you want to go there, I will....the second ammendement...and the guns that are associated with it, was not designed to kill. It/they were designed to defend. A hammer was not designed to kill, it was designed to drive in nails...but anyone would know you can you it to kill as well.

Look, I understand your argument. You should understand mine, but it seems you simply want to punch holes in it...I am not trying to punch holes in yours. Yours is correct....but so is mine..

Thus why there is a valid and honest debate about it. Dont compromise the integrity of an honest debate by trying to punch holes in the other sides argument....it gets us nowhere.

 

[PratchettFan]

No I am not calling for more gun control. I am calling for more acceptance of stupid gun deaths.

And understand that as more and more people are carrying concealed, with an attitude, that more and more senseless gun deaths will happen. It's just a numbers game dude. More people carrying more guns results in more gun deaths.

it's not rocket science. Accept it. Embrace it and don't leave home without your 9mil.

I accept stupid people will do stupid things that will result in death and harm to others...with or without a firearm.

However, when you state that more conceal carry licenses will result in more stupid (senseless) deaths, I would suggest you overlook a key consequence of the conceal carry movement.

"Senseless" deaths by firearm take many forms, including the thugs that kill during the commission of a crime. Certainly, when a store clerk gets blown away or an innocent homeowner shot during a burglary, it's senseless.

What we know is that statistically, where conceal carry permits have been issued, violent crime rates and "gun crime" tend to decrease.

So, while you have a point when you suggest the more conceal carry permits out there, the more likely we'll see the rare, but disturbing, incident of a legal gun owner shooting someone that really wasn't hurting him. However, I argue that number will be more than offset by a reduction in senseless deaths from the hands of a non-permit holding thugs, who are now less likely to attempt the crime or at least less likely to successfully kill or injure others in the course of committing their crime.

Overall, I argue conceal carry permits result in a safer society with fewer "senseless gun deaths", even when we include the extremely rare incidents of someone getting shot for something like loud music. So at the end of the day, I agree with you, we need to accept this.

Finally. Clarity. You know what is funny. If I am going into a situation where concealed carry makes sense, I am going to carry, permit or not. They need to get rid of the concealed carry permit requirement as well. Why should I have to do anything to concealed carry?

You should bring that up to your state legislature.

 

[zeke]

I put guns and cars on the same level as it pertains to items that can cause the death of innocent people if used improperly.....Thats why....not a very hard concept to understand. That is not a weak argunment or a lame comparison...unless you just want to be argumentative.

When some accidentally kills someone with a gun...it is an accident. When somebody accidentally kill someone with their car...it is an accident. When someone intentionally kills someone with a gun when they are not threatened, it is murder by a rogue individual. When someone intentionally gets behind the wheel of a car drunk and kills someone, it is murder by a rogue individual.

To call it a lame analogy is lame in itself....and I must believe you call it lame becuase it doesnt help your argument.


As for accepting ANY level of gun violence...I can not answer that. I have not sween a level of gun violence that disturbs me. Yes, I am saddened by accidental deaths by guns as well as innocent murders by guns.....but I have no idea how I will feel when it is so rampant, that it becomes a true debate.

I know one thing for sure.....if a person wants to kill someone, and they have no issue with killing someone, they will kill that person...be it by gun, bat, knife, poison...and yes...by intentionally hitting them with a car.

And I know one other thing for sure.....if I am approached by someone who wants to kill me, and guns were illegal....the prospective killer will be more likely to have a gun than I will.....for someone who is willing to break the law and murder will most certainly be willing to break the law and carry am illegal gun.

Why thats a fine logical argument that cars are just like guns.

But let me ask you this. If I am a drunk driver, wreck my car and kill someone, I have run the risk of killing myself in the accident as well.

If I pull my gun and shoot some one, am I at risk of shooting myself as well? PROBABLY NOT. At least I hope not.

And the part about wanting to kill someone. The dude in FL that killed the kid over loud music. You think he would have jumped out and started wailing away on 6 young teens in a car. Or did the gun give him the big balls walk and let him just start firing away?

You think it is easier to pull the trigger on someone or get up close and personal with a knife to kill? Or a ballbat.

Yea I hear the analogy about how all sorts of things can be killer. But there is NOTHING in this world, that almost anyone can get access to, that kills easier than a gun. Nothing.
Its what they were made for. A ball bat was not made for killing. A car was not made for killing. Hammers, electricity, poison, whatever you want to choose, only a gun was made with the idea of shooting someone.

True...a drunk driver may kill himself as well....just as a dude that takes out a gun leaves himself open to being shot by the guy he assumes is UNARMED but not.

The guy in florida...may he rot in hell...is an example of a rogue individual...and no, without the gun, there would have likely been no deaths.

What an item is made for is irrelevant.....but oif you want to go there, I will....the second ammendement...and the guns that are associated with it, was not designed to kill. It/they were designed to defend. A hammer was not designed to kill, it was designed to drive in nails...but anyone would know you can you it to kill as well.

Look, I understand your argument. You should understand mine, but it seems you simply want to punch holes in it...I am not trying to punch holes in yours. Yours is correct....but so is mine..

Thus why there is a valid and honest debate about it. Dont compromise the integrity of an honest debate by trying to punch holes in the other sides argument....it gets us nowhere.

No, I don't want to punch holes in your argument. I understand what you are saying. You are the one and only on here that accepts that ready access to weapons, particularyly hand guns, will cause the death on many innocent people.

That is the price to be paid. That's all I am saying. I accept that.

I have guns in case I need to shoot someone. That's why I bought them. It is what they are for and good at. Pragmatic reality is how I view it.

Wrapping all these guns in the flag and COTUS is what I am opposed to.

We have a hard time with wants and needs in this country. Lots of people want a gun. Not so many need them. Lots of people (me) want a full auto machine gun. How many need them?

But when you have the racial hatred, the political hatred and the hate mongers on the airwaves, spreading the idea that your neighbor is your enemy cause he don't think, look or act like you, and you have all these concealed carry guns on people, I think we have to accept there will be more and more stand your ground kind of killings.

Just the way people are. Carry a gun, you don't take no shit.

Ah well.

You've been a good poster. Thanks.

btw. One thing all the talk about taking guns away has done is increase business. I was down at a range shooting my buddies M4. Range was PACKED. I figured that out of the 30 people there, not but one or two could be counted on to pull their weapon and use it properly in a situation where using your gun was necessary. When cops, who practice all the time, can't hit their target, what's a 45yo woman, who has never ever been in a fist fight, let alone a gun fight, what is she really gonna do with a gun? Let someone take it from her and shoot her.

It's getting like the wild west around here.

I live in a township. No restrictions on firing a gun. Was working on a house (in the twnsp) where 5 young men were blasting away with a vaariety of weapons. Paying no attention to basic range type safety, traffic that was only 50 yards away or anything that looked gun safe.
I packed my tools and got the hell out of there before a stray got me.

People like that with guns don't make me feel real safe. Don't know about you.
But I accept it is their right to act the fool with guns.

 

[PratchettFan]

why in the fuk do you try and put guns and cars on the same level?

Is there an admentment to the COTUS about driving cars?

Or is your bullshit argument so weak that you can't think of anything better?

Just admit (like I do) that you will accept any level of gun violence. Along with the idea that cars kill people to.


And also accept that carrying a gun makes you a bad ass. You think Martin would have been confronted if the guy hadn't been carrying a gun? You think the guy would have told those kids to turn down the stero if he wasn't carrying a gun? Fuk no.

Face it dude. There are a lot of people carrying concealed just waiting for the "opportunity" to stand their ground. Makes you feel good doesn't it? Knowing that your kid could be shot over a loud stero cause some asshole is packing. And its all legal. Well the murder part isn't. But up till shooting the kid, all was well.

I put guns and cars on the same level as it pertains to items that can cause the death of innocent people if used improperly.....Thats why....not a very hard concept to understand. That is not a weak argunment or a lame comparison...unless you just want to be argumentative.

When some accidentally kills someone with a gun...it is an accident. When somebody accidentally kill someone with their car...it is an accident. When someone intentionally kills someone with a gun when they are not threatened, it is murder by a rogue individual. When someone intentionally gets behind the wheel of a car drunk and kills someone, it is murder by a rogue individual.

To call it a lame analogy is lame in itself....and I must believe you call it lame becuase it doesnt help your argument.

As for accepting ANY level of gun violence...I can not answer that. I have not sween a level of gun violence that disturbs me. Yes, I am saddened by accidental deaths by guns as well as innocent murders by guns.....but I have no idea how I will feel when it is so rampant, that it becomes a true debate.

I know one thing for sure.....if a person wants to kill someone, and they have no issue with killing someone, they will kill that person...be it by gun, bat, knife, poison...and yes...by intentionally hitting them with a car.

And I know one other thing for sure.....if I am approached by someone who wants to kill me, and guns were illegal....the prospective killer will be more likely to have a gun than I will.....for someone who is willing to break the law and murder will most certainly be willing to break the law and carry am illegal gun.

All of this is true.

Aside from the fact that, in this country, you have the right to keep weapons - though not an unlimited right - it really comes down to a question of the ability to do as you please so long as it does not harm others. I am philosophically opposed to any law which restricts us in order to protect us from ourselves. Certainly we must be held accountable for our actions and there are some things which, in and of themselves, present a clear hazard to others. But I much prefer to live in a dangerous world than in one which all of the sharp edges have been padded for my safety.

 

[9thIDdoc]

why in the fuk do you try and put guns and cars on the same level?

Is there an admentment to the COTUS about driving cars?

Or is your bullshit argument so weak that you can't think of anything better?

Just admit (like I do) that you will accept any level of gun violence. Along with the idea that cars kill people to.


And also accept that carrying a gun makes you a bad ass. You think Martin would have been confronted if the guy hadn't been carrying a gun? You think the guy would have told those kids to turn down the stero if he wasn't carrying a gun? Fuk no.

Face it dude. There are a lot of people carrying concealed just waiting for the "opportunity" to stand their ground. Makes you feel good doesn't it? Knowing that your kid could be shot over a loud stero cause some asshole is packing. And its all legal. Well the murder part isn't. But up till shooting the kid, all was well.

I put guns and cars on the same level as it pertains to items that can cause the death of innocent people if used improperly.....Thats why....not a very hard concept to understand. That is not a weak argunment or a lame comparison...unless you just want to be argumentative.

When some accidentally kills someone with a gun...it is an accident. When somebody accidentally kill someone with their car...it is an accident. When someone intentionally kills someone with a gun when they are not threatened, it is murder by a rogue individual. When someone intentionally gets behind the wheel of a car drunk and kills someone, it is murder by a rogue individual.

To call it a lame analogy is lame in itself....and I must believe you call it lame becuase it doesnt help your argument.

As for accepting ANY level of gun violence...I can not answer that. I have not sween a level of gun violence that disturbs me. Yes, I am saddened by accidental deaths by guns as well as innocent murders by guns.....but I have no idea how I will feel when it is so rampant, that it becomes a true debate.

I know one thing for sure.....if a person wants to kill someone, and they have no issue with killing someone, they will kill that person...be it by gun, bat, knife, poison...and yes...by intentionally hitting them with a car.

And I know one other thing for sure.....if I am approached by someone who wants to kill me, and guns were illegal....the prospective killer will be more likely to have a gun than I will.....for someone who is willing to break the law and murder will most certainly be willing to break the law and carry am illegal gun.

Why thats a fine logical argument that cars are just like guns.

But let me ask you this. If I am a drunk driver, wreck my car and kill someone, I have run the risk of killing myself in the accident as well.

If I pull my gun and shoot some one, am I at risk of shooting myself as well? PROBABLY NOT. At least I hope not.

And the part about wanting to kill someone. The dude in FL that killed the kid over loud music. You think he would have jumped out and started wailing away on 6 young teens in a car. Or did the gun give him the big balls walk and let him just start firing away?

You think it is easier to pull the trigger on someone or get up close and personal with a knife to kill? Or a ballbat.

Yea I hear the analogy about how all sorts of things can be killer. Nothing.
Its what they were made for. A ball bat was not made for killing. A car was not made for killing. Hammers, electricity, poison, whatever you want to choose, only a gun was made with the idea of shooting someone.

"...only a gun was made with the idea of shooting someone."

Disagree. In the real world only a very tiny precentage will ever shoot a person or be used even in a crime though they can be functional after a century and more continue to be made.

" But there is NOTHING in this world, that almost anyone can get access to, that kills easier than a gun".

That could be argued but making killing easier is a comon virtue of fire arms. And that is a good thing. I have killed deer with modern fire arms, muzzle loading firearms, bow and arrow, knife, and truck. All ended up equally dead and were equally welcome on my or someone else's table. By the same token easy is better when it comes to self defence and may make it the only way possible for some. The idea that something is evil because it is easier holds no water.

Assuming that someone buying a gun is preparing for a crime is as silly as assuming someone is preparing to commit arson by buying a fire extinguisher. Both may be on hand simply as emergency equipment.

 

[Borillar]

Yes, the nutjob down the street should have tactical nukes in his basement because "any weapon the government has, the people should have." You should be able to have weaponized anthrax and VX nerve gas because the government has it.

Bear arms means arms you can bear...as in your hands.

When the founders created the Constitution, the weapons of the day were single shot muzzle loading muskets and rifles.

Which is what the government, and the people, had. Same as today. Whatever rifle, sidearm, or fireARM the military has, the people can also have. True there are regulatory and licensing requirements for some of those weapons, but the people can own the same firearms the military has.

They didn't envision weapons that could level an entire city or kill every living thing on the planet. If they could have foreseen these weapons, I bet they would have worded the 2nd amendment very differently.

And you know this how?

If you want to bring this discussion down to what weapons an infantry soldier carries should be available to ordinary citizens, that is more reasonable, yet still too much. The carnage that can be caused just by semi-automatic weapons is considerable, but at least it won't take out whole cities. Just scores of ordinary people. Coming soon to a theater or shopping mall near you.

Yet we know no gun control will stop the maniacs you're referring to. We see them in the US and even in other countries that have banned all guns.

So, if you wish to remain unarmed, cowering in the corner of a gun free zone when the maniac shows up, that's your choice. Please don't impose your cowardice on others.

Hmm, so as long as you can carry it, it's fine and dandy? Suitcase nukes OK then? Flamethrowers, RPG's, claymores, grenades, Stinger missiles? You want people to be able to carry that shit? You nutters should all move to Somalia where you can kill each other without interference.

And how do we know that sensible gun control won't work? It hasn't been tried here. While other countries may have an incident now and then, no country has these horrific incidents as often as we do. We seem to have them every other week.

And not cowardice. I'm a gun owner and I have served in the armed forces of the USA. It's called common sense. If people can't get their hands on these weapons, there will be fewer mass killings.

 

[GuyPinestra]

I watched a clip on U Tube where a company makes a recoil device that attaches to the stock of an M4 or AR15, and using the recoil of the weapon, basically makes it an automatic weapon. The recoil moves the weapon back and forth on your trigger finger.
So you just hold the trigger and let er rip.

Approved by ATF, from what I understand.

I would like to see a poll asking Americans how many deaths by gun per day is acceptable.

Something like 35 people will be killed with guns today. And that number is evidentally fine.
But is there a number of people being killed by guns, that we would find unacceptable?

I don't think so, but who knows for sure. I think Americans will accept ANY level of gun violence. Just part of being "American". We likes those guns.

110 people die every day in car wrecks.

Should we go back to horses?

What a stupid fuking repsonse.

Obviously we have accepted that a certain number of people will die from car accidents.
We still have the auto manufactuers trying to save lives through better built cars and trucks. So at least the number of deaths by car accident is declining.

Can you say the same for gun deaths. Is that number falling? Are weapons being made safer? Fuk no.

At least have the balls to say that you don't give a flying fuk how many people get killed by guns today. As long as its not you or yours and you still have whatever guns you want.

Honesty is the best policy. Get more respect that way to.

Why is it stupid? You're sniveling about people needlessly dying by gunshot when 3 times as many die from car wrecks. THAT seems stupid to me.

Gun deaths in America are going up NOT because of legal gun owners but because of ILLEGAL ones. Gun laws ONLY disarm the LEGAL gun owners, the criminals and gangbangers don't give a fuck WHAT laws you pass.

I don't give a fuck how many people die from guns because it's the criminals doing the killing and there is NOTHING we can do to stop them short of killing them FIRST, which is EXACTLY what would happen if they came for me and mine.

 

[BlindBoo]

Fully automatics firearms are already illegal for sale in this country.

What? Do you mean I can buy a .50 caliber machine gun and mount it on the back of my truck and cruize the blvd?????

Outrageous commie, liberal/fascist, nazi, socialist, marxist, gay, crackhead bastards (who want to ceed control of this nation to the UN).

Damn it, I had my eyes on a nice sleek RPG launcher this weekend.

 

[zeke]

110 people die every day in car wrecks.

Should we go back to horses?

What a stupid fuking repsonse.

Obviously we have accepted that a certain number of people will die from car accidents.
We still have the auto manufactuers trying to save lives through better built cars and trucks. So at least the number of deaths by car accident is declining.

Can you say the same for gun deaths. Is that number falling? Are weapons being made safer? Fuk no.

At least have the balls to say that you don't give a flying fuk how many people get killed by guns today. As long as its not you or yours and you still have whatever guns you want.

Honesty is the best policy. Get more respect that way to.

Why is it stupid? You're sniveling about people needlessly dying by gunshot when 3 times as many die from car wrecks. THAT seems stupid to me.

Gun deaths in America are going up NOT because of legal gun owners but because of ILLEGAL ones. Gun laws ONLY disarm the LEGAL gun owners, the criminals and gangbangers don't give a fuck WHAT laws you pass.

I don't give a fuck how many people die from guns because it's the criminals doing the killing and there is NOTHING we can do to stop them short of killing them FIRST, which is EXACTLY what would happen if they came for me and mine.

That's what I have been saying. Don't give a fuk.

But I would think that you would know that over half the gun deaths in America are suicide. You should know this shit, loving guns more than life itself. The next big group is good ole homocides with a variety (gangs, drugs, territory, women, passion, greed etc etc.) of reasons people have for killing each other. Then accidental death by gun. Those are the tragic "Dad more afraid of burglers than of kid finding gun but what happens? Kid finds gun. Shoots friend, sibling etc. Not so many deaths by gun with stranger on stranger. More of those are gonna happen though.

I agree with you though. Come through my door with intent to harm, I m a gonna shoot you. If the dogs don't get you first.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Military violence is reserved to the government, not citizens.

You have no need for a missile guided frigate in your bath tub, Liberty.

Woooo...I think the 2nd amendment is very clear. Any weapon the government has, the people should have. We will need to be on equal footing if we ever want to overthrow the government like we overthrew the one in the late 18th century. That is the purpose of the 2nd amendment. I will let this picture explain it more easily: