The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[Nemo]

If there is anything that can be gleaned from the intent of the framers of the Constitution, it is that our nation was founded on secular principles and not religious doctrine. The founding fathers well knew that the separation of church and state was the only way to preserve religious freedom. Religious wars had been waged in Europe over its union; and, indeed, some of the first colonists, the Pilgrims, came to America to escape state-sponsored religious persecution. Our right to worship freely, without government interference, is guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution, and not by God. It is time that people of faith reconcile themselves with this fundamental fact.

 

[Gadawg73]

If there is anything that can be gleaned from the intent of the framers of the Constitution, it is that our nation was founded on secular principles and not religious doctrine. The founding fathers well knew that the separation of church and state was the only way to preserve religious freedom. Religious wars had been waged in Europe over its union; and, indeed, some of the first colonists, the Pilgrims, came to America to escape state-sponsored religious persecution. Our right to worship freely, without government interference, is guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution, and not by God. It is time that people of faith reconcile themselves with this fundamental fact.

They won't. They ignore facts and believe God wrote the Constitution.

 

[peach174]

3 Christian laws come to mind
Polygamy is one Christian law
Another is you can't by alcohol on Sunday in some states.
Gay marriage is another.

 

[Gadawg73]

3 Christian laws come to mind
Polygamy is one Christian law
Another is you can't by alcohol on Sunday in some states.
Gay marriage is another.

Thanks for proving my point.
George Washington was the largest retailer of whiskey in the colonies.
Most of the Founders owned breweries or made their own brew.
And he sold and transported it EVERY Sunday.

 

[Nemo]

No, that's not correct. They are not religious laws, they are secular laws.

 

[AllieBaba]

Documents are NOT LAW.
Where is God mentioned in THE LAW.

Who decided that foundation = law?

 

[peach174]

If there is anything that can be gleaned from the intent of the framers of the Constitution, it is that our nation was founded on secular principles and not religious doctrine. The founding fathers well knew that the separation of church and state was the only way to preserve religious freedom. Religious wars had been waged in Europe over its union; and, indeed, some of the first colonists, the Pilgrims, came to America to escape state-sponsored religious persecution. Our right to worship freely, without government interference, is guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution, and not by God. It is time that people of faith reconcile themselves with this fundamental fact.

They won't. They ignore facts and believe God wrote the Constitution.

Men wrote the Consitution, who prayed to God to help them write the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

 

[AllieBaba]

And we return to stage one.

I guess all the founding fathers who said they were founding the nation upon Christian principle, and the supreme court, which stated that the country was founded upon Christian principle, along with Abraham Lincoln and Obama, who both stated we were founded upon Christian principle...all those people were WRONG and we must just take the word of internet geniuses like gadawg, bod and nemo.

You bet.

 

[Nemo]

Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the Declaration of Independence - George Washington, who presided over the Constitutional Convention - and James Madison, who drafted the First Amendment - all declared that our nation was not founded on religion. The separation of church and state is the founding principle in the protection of religious freedom as provided in the First Amendment to the Constitution; and, moreover, the Supreme Court has so interpreted the Constitution. Everson v. Board of Education of Ewing TP. et al., 330 U.S. 1, pp. 15,16 (1947).

 

[AllieBaba]

I didn't say our country was founded upon religion. It certainly isn't.

It has to be an organic disorder that prevents the anti-Christian statists from recognizing there's a difference between founding/law..and which further prevents them from recognizing that a country can (and has been)founded upon Christian principle...without the country being a theocracy.

 

[ConHog]

I didn't say our country was founded upon religion. It certainly isn't.

It has to be an organic disorder that prevents the anti-Christian statists from recognizing there's a difference between founding/law..and which further prevents them from recognizing that a country can (and has been)founded upon Christian principle...without the country being a theocracy.

I see you're still fighting the fight here. Waste of time. They don't see what they don't want to see.

 

[Nemo]

There is no valid authority for the assertion that on nation was founded on Christian principles. It is insupportable. The framers of the Constitution, did not intend to create a theocracy. They had exactly the opposite in mind. To preserve religious freedom, the government and law had to be secular, and not based on religious precepts. This is the fundamental principle of the separation of church and state upon which our religious freedom is secured.

 

[AllieBaba]

Nobody, NOBODY, said their intent was to found a theocracy, nimrodo....we've already proven, with the words of the founding fathers, the supreme court, and presidents down through the ages, that the US was, indisputably, founded UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLE.

It has been proven beyond a doubt, or that idiot, gadawg, would still be proclaiming that it wasn't, instead of saying "ok, ok, we all know that we were founded upon some Christian principles...BUT". The evidence is so overwhelming even that brain dead dolt can no longer continue to claim the opposite without recognizing himself as a fool.

 

[Nemo]

What Supreme Court decision? Do you have a citation?

 

[ConHog]

There is no valid authority for the assertion that on nation was founded on Christian principles. It is insupportable. The framers of the Constitution, did not intend to create a theocracy. They had exactly the opposite in mind. To preserve religious freedom, the government and law had to be secular, and not based on religious precepts. This is the fundamental principle of the separation of church and state upon which our religious freedom is secured.

Really? 9 thousand pages into this thread and you can't grok the difference between a nation being founded on Christian principles and a theocracy?

 

[AllieBaba]

What Supreme Court decision? Do you have a citation?

It's been cited multiple times in this thread.

 

[Nemo]

Well, where is it?

 

[AllieBaba]

I'm not going to look up and cite it again, so that I can be dragged into the same argument that has been going on in this thread since the BEGINNING OF TIME, but i did run across an interesting site that has a lot of quotes of the justices...I've never seen this site before I don't think, and found it fascinating:

U.S. Supreme Court

"Judge Gallagher
Baer v. Kolmorgen
The Supreme Court of New York 1958
"Much has been written in recent years...to "a wall of separation between church and State." ...It has received so much attention that one would almost think at times that it is to be found somewhere in our Constitution."

 

[ConHog]

Well, where is it?

CHURCH OF THE HOLY TRINITY V. UNITED STATES, 143 U. S. 457 (1892)

CHURCH OF THE HOLY TRINITY V. UNITED STATES, 143 U. S. 457 :: Volume 143 :: 1892 :: Full Text :: US Supreme Court Cases from Justia & Oyez

At THIS point a sane person would conclude that //thread

I suspect it will go on.

 

[Nemo]

I found the case. Holy Trinity Church is not a valid precedent; and it is certainly not any authority for the assertion that our nation is founded on Christian principles. The decision of Holy Trinity Church v. United States has been used by Christian fundamentalists to support their claim that our nation was founded on religion. The decision is an aberration of the rules of construction and judicial interpretation. The unsupported statement of Justice Brewer to the effect that America is a Christian nation was not in any way pertinent to the court’s ruling or even be considered the ratio decidendi of the court’s opinion in the case; and it has been criticized and repudiated in subsequent decisions by the court. See e.g., Public Citizen v. Department of Justice, 491 U.S. 440 (1989). Even Justice Antonin Scalia, who is not shy about reconciling his legal opinions with his religious convictions, has criticized the Holy Trinity Church case as an example of legislating from the bench. Antonin Scalia, A Matter of Interpretation: Federal Courts and the Law (1998). It is a good example of how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.