Zone1 the Scripture I said I would find about Torment of the damned being FOREVER

[Red Front]

Welp, you shot yourself in the foot again. And there goes your bullshit about Purgatory. Why weren't those people given the option to work on their salvation?

Their salvation was secured by Christ on the cross. He doesn't need any help. The dead in Christ are blessed and are resting, not working on their quest to be holy enough to enter Heaven.

The scripture you quoted was not about hell. It is end time scripture, describing the Lake of Fire. Hell and death end up in the Lake of Fire.
Rev. 20:14 Then Death and Hell were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
^
So, where is hell the day after the White Throne Judgment?

The dead know nothing and are asleep, waiting for the day of "להחיות" (le'ha'chayot), the revival or "resurrection". תחיית המתים - "Techiyat HaMeytim" (The Rising Of The Dead), this is our hope in YHWH, our One and Only Elohim. You're trying to kill YHWH for your sins? How are you going to rise from the dead? You're going to be forgotten by YHWH, for trying to kill Him for your sins. YHWH mocks the wicked:

Eze 28:1-10 The word of YHWH came again unto me, saying, (2) Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Sovereign YHWH; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a El (God), I sit in the seat of Elohim (God), in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not El (God), though thou set thine heart as the heart of Elohim (God): (3) Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: (4) With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: (5) By thy great wisdom and by thy traffic hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches: (6) Therefore thus saith the Sovereign YHWH; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of Elohim (God); (7) Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. (8) They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas. (9) Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am Elohim (God)? but thou shalt be a man, and no El (God), in the hand of him that slayeth thee. (10) Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Sovereign Yahweh.

Thou shall be nothing more than a man in the hand of he who kills you. YHWH doesn't die, he's not subject to death or dying at the hand of anyone. You are committing the worst type of idolatry, ascribing divinity to a man and then believing that YHWH can be killed for your sins. Reject such idolatrous, demonic wickedness and turn to YHWH, The Holy One of Israel, the heavenly Father. You are dishonoring rabbi Yeshua Ben Yoseph, the one you worship as YHWH incarnate, with your idolatrous beliefs. He wasn't a Christian. Paul of Tarsus, a Jewish gnostic and "mystic" is the true founder of your religion, not Yeshua Ben Yoseph. He might have been a magician.

 

[Red Front]

It's not that Christians claim this. The Holy Bible Word of God says it. I love being a Christian. I think it's best to let people chose which ever religion they want to be apart of.

The Hebrew Bible does not support the idea of a place of eternal torment like the Christian concept of hell or the lake of fire (those are pagan ideas). Instead, it presents death more as a state of non-existence or sleep, where the dead are unaware and devoid of consciousness.

Firstly, consider Ecclesiastes 9:5, which states, "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." This verse clearly illustrates that, according to the Hebrew Bible, the dead are in a state of non-awareness, directly contradicting the notion that the deceased can experience eternal torment.

Moreover, the term often translated as "hell" in the Christian Old Testament is "Sheol" in the Hebrew Bible. Sheol is described not as a place of punishment or eternal fire but as a grave or a pit. It is a place of darkness where all the dead go, regardless of their moral standing during life, and not a place of torment. This is evident in Ecclesiastes 9:10, "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave (Sheol), whither thou goest."

YHWH is a God of justice and mercy, and the idea that YHWH would forget about individuals and allow them to cease to exist aligns more closely with the Hebrew Bible's view of divine justice than the concept of eternal punishment. YHWH's justice is about correction and restoration whenever possible, not eternal condemnation. This is supported by Ezekiel 18:32, where YHWH expresses, "For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord YHWH: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."

In terms of a residual consciousness or the psyche after death, the Hebrew Bible suggests a faint existence but not in a state that allows for suffering or bliss. This aligns with Isaiah 38:18-19, which states, "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth." This passage emphasizes that praise and consciousness of YHWH belong to the living, not the dead.

To assert that YHWH would engage in eternal punishment through a lake of fire is to misrepresent YHWH's nature as revealed in the Hebrew Bible. YHWH's actions are geared towards justice, correction, and ultimately restoration, not perpetual torment. The Hebrew Bible encourages us to seek a relationship with YHWH in this life, understanding that death represents a boundary beyond which our opportunities to make choices and engage with the divine in the same way as we do in life cease. You can't worship YHWH in the grave, because YHWH is the God of the Living, not the dead. That's why there's a resurrection on the day of judgment.

 

[kyzr]

Hey Red Front, going back to the seminary?

Looks like you still know your stuff.

One question for you.
There are many paths and references about the afterlife, Hebrew, Catholic, Tibetan, Hindu, strict biblical, etc.
So if we think that Jesus is our path to YHWH (no one gets there but thru Me) why is there no discussion here about the New Testament?

 

[Red Front]

Hey Red Front, going back to the seminary?

Looks like you still know your stuff.

One question for you.
There are many paths and references about the afterlife, Hebrew, Catholic, Tibetan, Hindu, strict biblical, etc.
So if we think that Jesus is our path to YHWH (no one gets there but thru Me) why is there no discussion here about the New Testament?

I base my faith on the Hebrew Bible and I serve and worship YHWH, the Holy One of Israel. You can follow the NT, Book of Mormon, Quran, Vedas, Bhagavad Gita, Avesta, Guru Granth Sahib, Dhamapada..etc, whatever you want. But if you're going to say that your religion is based on mine, which is the faith of Israel and its Hebrew Bible, well then I'm going to scrutinize your claim to test its veracity. Christians claim to worship YHWH the God of Israel, who I worship and they likewise claim that YHWH became a man incarnate, and died for everyone's sins (He had to kill 1/3rd of Himself in order to redeem and save humanity). They assert that God is three persons and Torah has been abolished..etc. Amazing.

Those are some provocative, extraordinary claims, hence I'm going to test them in light of the Hebrew Bible. So far, what I've seen from Christian apologists is a lot of distortion and just plain poor hermeneutics. Ripping verses out of context, imposing unnecessary, strained definitions upon Hebrew words and texts. Ignoring basic Biblical principles, like the law of agency for example. The Christian argument amounts to a quagmire of mistranslated and misinterpreted texts.

I'll just go with the Hebrew Bible and concentrate on a Judaic understanding of Hebrew (Judaic) scriptures, rather than receiving my information on the faith of Israel and its Jewish Bible, from Christianity, Islam or some other religion.

 

[kyzr]

I base my faith on the Hebrew Bible and I serve and worship YHWH, the Holy One of Israel. You can follow the NT, Book of Mormon, Quran, Vedas, Bhagavad Gita, Avesta, Guru Granth Sahib, Dhamapada..etc, whatever you want. But if you're going to say that your religion is based on mine, which is the faith of Israel and its Hebrew Bible, well then I'm going to scrutinize your claim to test its veracity. Christians claim to worship YHWH the God of Israel, who I worship and they likewise claim that YHWH became a man incarnate, and died for everyone's sins (He had to kill 1/3rd of Himself in order to redeem and save humanity). They assert that God is three persons and Torah has been abolished..etc. Amazing.

Those are some provocative, extraordinary claims, hence I'm going to test them in light of the Hebrew Bible. So far, what I've seen from Christian apologists is a lot of distortion and just plain poor hermeneutics. Ripping verses out of context, imposing unnecessary, strained definitions upon Hebrew words and texts. Ignoring basic Biblical principles, like the law of agency for example. The Christian argument amounts to a quagmire of mistranslated and misinterpreted texts.

I'll just go with the Hebrew Bible and concentrate on a Judaic understanding of Hebrew (Judaic) scriptures, rather than receiving my information on the faith of Israel and its Jewish Bible, from Christianity, Islam or some other religion.

Like distortions? Lets get to some basics that we can both agree on.
1. YHWH is God the Father
2. Catholics believe that there are 3-persons in One God, The Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit.
3. Moses wrote Genesis and Exodus in the OT about 1,500BC, or about 3,500 years ago. The OT has more books than the Torah.
The Torah is the compilation of the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, namely the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. The Torah is known as the Pentateuch or the Five Books of Moses by Christians.
The Torah isn't "abolished", its just outdated.
4. So why do you think that the Torah is better than the Bible? Its old outdated info. The NT is current info.
5. Jesus died for our sins as directed by YHWH. "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani? I'm still trying to get my head around that. Jesus didn't really die, he just experienced death and gave us the New Covenant, but you know that.
6. Hermeneutics? That's why the OT is outdated. It was written for cave men barely surviving with nothing but language, no science, no knowledge base, just tribal warfare and basic survival. The OT got their attention with claims of "hellfire and brimstone". Jesus set the record straight as far as rules to live by.
7. Not sure wtf the "Law of Agency" has to do with religion??
"The law of agency is an area of commercial law dealing with a set of contractual, quasi-contractual and non-contractual fiduciary relationships that involve a person, called the agent, that is authorized to act on behalf of another to create legal relations with a third party."
8. What quagmire? The NT is the answer. Simple.

 

[1miseryindex]

***The Advocate, the Comforter, the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ are the same. (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby) Hopefully that helps.

Ok, I knew that. For future reference, you may want to save your Scripture citing for others, as I have read and continue daily to read the Bible, both Old and New. I know it's bizarre to think that a Catholic has read the entire Bible and even memorized a few things there, but that is so. I'm sorry if i sound a little impatient. It's just that I have this little character flaw or whatever u call it: I would like to learn something new when reading other posters. I like conversion stories, for example..

Catholics who attend daily Mass for 3 years straight have heard the entire Bible, and I read it even aside from that, have been going to daily Mass off/on for a couple decades.

In any case, it's nice to hear from someone not teaching heresy (not any that I've found yet anyhow.. lol)

 

[The Irish Ram]

Good scripture verse. Hell is eternal and heaven is eternal. Which ever one a person choses to go to they will remain there forever.

Hell is not eternal. Those in hell will not remain there forever. Hell gives up it's inhabitants at the White Throne Judgment. Then Hell is dispatched to the Lake of Fire. It does not go back to being hell.

 

[Woodznutz]

Assuming I fully understand that last sentence...

You sound like a Catholic.

I used to fret and worry (before I returned to the Catholic faith) whether I had, in my sinning days (big sin, that is) that maybe I had committed this sin agains the HS

Then I studied Catholicism which says that the only unforgivable sin is rejecting Christ, something I NEVER did in my youth or any other time...

So that was a big relief

And it totally makes sense. If there is only ONE unforgivable sin THAT would be it

Rejecting Christ after once receiving Christ and Holy Spirit. Most who 'reject' Christ have never received Christ. They will have their chance during the White Throne judgment period.

 

[1miseryindex]

Rejecting Christ after once receiving Christ and Holy Spirit. Most who 'reject' Christ have never received Christ. They will have their chance during the White Throne judgment period.

The first sentence is an incomplete one.

What ABOUT rejecting Christ after receiving him?

are you saying THAT is unforgivable?

But there is only ONE unforgivable sin: rejecting Him until the very END of your life

 

[The Irish Ram]

I base my faith on the Hebrew Bible

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

 

[The Irish Ram]

First I will give you your very own answer you post this:
"Then death and Hell were thrown into the lake of fire."
You answered your own question.

According to the scriptures...
In Revelation 20:14 "Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."

It's hell maximized. The people will be burning but they will not burn up. We all get a new body that is equipped to handle our new destinations. A new body for heaven is different than the new body people get who go to hell. Those who go to hell and the lake of fire will burn but they will not get any relief from burning by burning up. They will suffer torment. You have good questions. Keep asking them. I try to offer more information only if people ask.

lol. I asked you the question. Then I answered it for you. I know where Hell will be, but you think Hell is eternal. It is not. It is thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is NOT an extension of hell. They are two different entities.

Question: Where is Hell the day after the White Throne Judgment?
Answer: In the Lake of Fire.

Question: Where is Hell 100 years after the White Throne Judgment?
Answer: In the Lake of Fire.

Question: Where is Hell for eternity?
Answer: Lake of Fire.

 

[Red Front]

Like distortions? Lets get to some basics that we can both agree on.
1. YHWH is God the Father
2. Catholics believe that there are 3-persons in One God, The Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit.
3. Moses wrote Genesis and Exodus in the OT about 1,500BC, or about 3,500 years ago. The OT has more books than the Torah.
The Torah is the compilation of the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, namely the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. The Torah is known as the Pentateuch or the Five Books of Moses by Christians.
The Torah isn't "abolished", its just outdated.
4. So why do you think that the Torah is better than the Bible? Its old outdated info. The NT is current info.
5. Jesus died for our sins as directed by YHWH. "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani? I'm still trying to get my head around that. Jesus didn't really die, he just experienced death and gave us the New Covenant, but you know that.
6. Hermeneutics? That's why the OT is outdated. It was written for cave men barely surviving with nothing but language, no science, no knowledge base, just tribal warfare and basic survival. The OT got their attention with claims of "hellfire and brimstone". Jesus set the record straight as far as rules to live by.
7. Not sure wtf the "Law of Agency" has to do with religion??
"The law of agency is an area of commercial law dealing with a set of contractual, quasi-contractual and non-contractual fiduciary relationships that involve a person, called the agent, that is authorized to act on behalf of another to create legal relations with a third party."
8. What quagmire? The NT is the answer. Simple.

WTF does all of that have to do with the faith of Israel? You're saying the Hebrew Bible is outdated? The Muslims feel the same way about your NT (So what, right? Do you care?). According to them, the "new revelation" is Islam through the prophet Muhammad.

If your supposed "NT" or religion contradicts what is explicitly stated in the Hebrew Bible (the "OT"), then I'll go with the original revelation and you can follow the upstart, "NT", religion. Not me, I won't go with Christianity, Islam, Bahai, Hinduism, Hare Krishna, Buddhism..none of them. You can go if you insist, but for me and my house, we will serve and worship YHWH, The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I don't want your strange gods or "new" anything.

Jeremiah 6:16: "Thus says YHWH: Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'"

I will remain on the ancient path.

In the Hebrew Bible, YHWH is the Heavenly Father, period. One Being, One Person, One Deity. One, not three. There's no God by Commitee. There is One Almighty God and His Name is YHWH, our heavenly Father.

YHWH doesn't need to kill the innocent to forgive anyone, much less kill himself (or 1/3rd of himself). You can't kill God for your sins (that's the worst type of blasphemy and idolatry). YHWH won't die, Haleluyah YAHWEH, The Eternal, Immortal One! They want to kill you for their sins, but Praise Your Holy Name, YOU WON'T DIE!

There's no life in death. If you wish to transcend the grave, you need to repent of your sins and keep YHWH's commandments. Live righteously. There are no shortcuts or cheat codes, that's the only way. Repentance and living righteously by keeping YHWH's commandments.

Psalm 37:28: "For YHWH loves justice; He will not forsake His tzadikim (righteous ones, צדיקים). They are preserved forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off."

Psalm 112:6: "Surely the righteous (Tzadik, צדיק) will never be shaken; they will be remembered forever."

Psalm 116:15: "Precious in the sight of YHWH is the death of His tzadikim (righteous ones, צדיקים)."

Proverbs 10:7: "The memory of the righteous (Tzadik, צדיק) is a blessing, but the name of the wicked will rot."

Proverbs 12:7: "The wicked are overthrown and are no more, but the house of the righteous (Tzadikim, צדיקים) will stand."

Isaiah 57:1-2: "The righteous perish (Tzadik, צדיק), and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest as they lie in death."

WHY DO THE RIGHTEOUS DIE PEACEFULLY? THEY TRUST YHWH:

Isaiah 56:4-5: "For thus says YHWH: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, who choose the things that please Me and hold fast My covenant, I will give in My house and within My walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off."

Daniel 12:2-3: "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness (Tzadikah, צדקה), like the stars forever and ever."

The Christian complaint that no one is perfect hence YHWH won't accept their efforts to live righteously underscores how ignorant Christians are of YHWH's mercy and what he actually requires of His people:

Mic 6:6-8 Wherewith shall I come before Yahweh, and bow myself before the high Elohim? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old? (7) Will Yahweh be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? (8) He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth Yahweh require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy Elohim?

Flawless perfection was never the standard:

Ecc_7:20 For there is not a righteous man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Absolute perfection was never YHWH's standard for human righteousness. His standard has always been, "wholeheartedness", being sincere with YHWH, and doing as much as you can to live for him. Dedicating your life to Him, irrespective of your flaws.

1 Samuel 13:14 states, "But now your kingdom shall not continue; Yahweh has sought out a man after his own heart, and Yahweh has commanded him to be prince over his people, because you (King Saul) have not kept what Yahweh commanded you."

This verse indicates that YHWH sought someone whose heart was aligned with His, and that heart was found in David. King David wasn't perfect but nonetheless, YHWH says of Him:

1Ki_11:34 Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:

1Ki_14:8 And rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;

YHWH says of King David, that he had kept His commandments and was wholehearted with Him. He had followed YHWH with all of His heart, regardless of his human imperfections. He lived a life of repentance, always being ready to admit his faults and repent before YHWH. He didn't demand eternal life, or for YHWH to kill Himself for his sins, but rather he lived a life of commitment to His heavenly Father and was always ready to admit his faults and get back on track. The righteous man falls SEVEN TIMES but he always gets back up:

Proverbs 24:16: "For though the righteous fall seven times, they rise again, but the wicked stumble when calamity strikes."

We must circumcise our hearts. YHWH helps us do that:

Deuteronomy 10:16: "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn."

Deuteronomy 30:6: "And YHWH your Elohim will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live."

Jeremiah 4:4: "Circumcise yourselves to YHWH, remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds."

Stop playing cards below deck and get to work, lift the sails, and YHWH will provide you with the wind. YHWH provides practically everything, doesn't He? He gives us our existence, the ship, all provisions, the ocean, the destination, the muscles that we use to lift the sails, and the wind that fills them..Everything. We have to not become nihilistic, exercising our faith and free will, taking action, and YHWH will empower us to righteousness. You can't kill YHWH for your sins, but you can lift the sails and let Him provide you with the wind.

 

[Slade3200]

This is Revelation 14:9

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice: If any man shall adore the beast and his image and receive his character in his forehead or in his hand, 10He also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mingled with pure wine in the cup of his wrath: and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torments, shall ascend up for ever and ever: neither have they rest day nor night, who have adored the beast and his image and whoever receiveth the character of his name. 12Here is the patience of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Also, RE works / salvation issue

13And I heard a voice from Heaven, saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord. From henceforth now, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours. For their works follow them.

Proof that the Bible is in fact flawed by the work of man.

 

[Red Front]

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

You're like a Muslim citing the Quran to prove Islam. How is that supposed to impress anyone but maybe another Christian like yourself? When Mormons cite the Book of Mormon, does that convince you that the LDS church is the "true church"?

 

[The Irish Ram]

You're like a Muslim citing the Quran to prove Islam. How is that supposed to impress anyone but maybe another Christian like yourself? When Mormons cite the Book of Mormon, does that convince you that the LDS church is the "true church"?

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[The Irish Ram]

WTF does all of that have to do with the faith of Israel? You're saying the Hebrew Bible is outdated? The Muslims feel the same way about your NT (So what, right? Do you care?). According to them, the "new revelation" is Islam through the prophet Muhammad.

If your supposed "NT" or religion contradicts what is explicitly stated in the Hebrew Bible (the "OT"), then I'll go with the original revelation and you can follow the upstart, "NT", religion. Not me, I won't go with Christianity, Islam, Bahai, Hinduism, Hare Krishna, Buddhism..none of them. You can go if you insist, but for me and my house, we will serve and worship YHWH, The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I don't want your strange gods or "new" anything.

Jeremiah 6:16: "Thus says YHWH: Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'"

I will remain on the ancient path.

In the Hebrew Bible, YHWH is the Heavenly Father, period. One Being, One Person, One Deity. One, not three. There's no God by Commitee. There is One Almighty God and His Name is YHWH, our heavenly Father.

YHWH doesn't need to kill the innocent to forgive anyone, much less kill himself (or 1/3rd of himself). You can't kill God for your sins (that's the worst type of blasphemy and idolatry). YHWH won't die, Haleluyah YAHWEH, The Eternal, Immortal One! They want to kill you for their sins, but Praise Your Holy Name, YOU WON'T DIE!

There's no life in death. If you wish to transcend the grave, you need to repent of your sins and keep YHWH's commandments. Live righteously. There are no shortcuts or cheat codes, that's the only way. Repentance and living righteously by keeping YHWH's commandments.

Psalm 37:28: "For YHWH loves justice; He will not forsake His tzadikim (righteous ones, צדיקים). They are preserved forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off."

Psalm 112:6: "Surely the righteous (Tzadik, צדיק) will never be shaken; they will be remembered forever."

Psalm 116:15: "Precious in the sight of YHWH is the death of His tzadikim (righteous ones, צדיקים)."

Proverbs 10:7: "The memory of the righteous (Tzadik, צדיק) is a blessing, but the name of the wicked will rot."

Proverbs 12:7: "The wicked are overthrown and are no more, but the house of the righteous (Tzadikim, צדיקים) will stand."

Isaiah 57:1-2: "The righteous perish (Tzadik, צדיק), and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest as they lie in death."

WHY DO THE RIGHTEOUS DIE PEACEFULLY? THEY TRUST YHWH:

Isaiah 56:4-5: "For thus says YHWH: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, who choose the things that please Me and hold fast My covenant, I will give in My house and within My walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off."

Daniel 12:2-3: "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness (Tzadikah, צדקה), like the stars forever and ever."

The Christian complaint that no one is perfect hence YHWH won't accept their efforts to live righteously underscores how ignorant Christians are of YHWH's mercy and what he actually requires of His people:

Mic 6:6-8 Wherewith shall I come before Yahweh, and bow myself before the high Elohim? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old? (7) Will Yahweh be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? (8) He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth Yahweh require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy Elohim?

Flawless perfection was never the standard:

Ecc_7:20 For there is not a righteous man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Absolute perfection was never YHWH's standard for human righteousness. His standard has always been, "wholeheartedness", being sincere with YHWH, and doing as much as you can to live for him. Dedicating your life to Him, irrespective of your flaws.

1 Samuel 13:14 states, "But now your kingdom shall not continue; Yahweh has sought out a man after his own heart, and Yahweh has commanded him to be prince over his people, because you (King Saul) have not kept what Yahweh commanded you."

This verse indicates that YHWH sought someone whose heart was aligned with His, and that heart was found in David. King David wasn't perfect but nonetheless, YHWH says of Him:

1Ki_11:34 Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:

1Ki_14:8 And rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;

YHWH says of King David, that he had kept His commandments and was wholehearted with Him. He had followed YHWH with all of His heart, regardless of his human imperfections. He lived a life of repentance, always being ready to admit his faults and repent before YHWH. He didn't demand eternal life, or for YHWH to kill Himself for his sins, but rather he lived a life of commitment to His heavenly Father and was always ready to admit his faults and get back on track. The righteous man falls SEVEN TIMES but he always gets back up:

Proverbs 24:16: "For though the righteous fall seven times, they rise again, but the wicked stumble when calamity strikes."

We must circumcise our hearts. YHWH helps us do that:

Deuteronomy 10:16: "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn."

Deuteronomy 30:6: "And YHWH your Elohim will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live."

Jeremiah 4:4: "Circumcise yourselves to YHWH, remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds."

Stop playing cards below deck and get to work, lift the sails, and YHWH will provide you with the wind. YHWH provides practically everything, doesn't He? He gives us our existence, the ship, all provisions, the ocean, the destination, the muscles that we use to lift the sails, and the wind that fills them..Everything. We have to not become nihilistic, exercising our faith and free will, taking action, and YHWH will empower us to righteousness. You can't kill YHWH for your sins, but you can lift the sails and let Him provide you with the wind.

You can rid yourself of the veil that blinds you to the truth by accepting Christ as your Savior.
He gave you a better covenant. The old one brings death. Christ brings life.

Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises. For if that first covenant had been without fault, no place would have been sought for a second.…

 

[1miseryindex]

Proof that the Bible is in fact flawed by the work of man.

millions disagree, even LEARNED clergy who have a degree in theology

But you know more than them, i am sure

 

[Red Front]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Citing the Christian scriptures only proves that that's what the Christian scriptures say, but that in and of itself doesn't prove that Christian beliefs are correct. You're not refuting anything I cited from the Hebrew Bible, by citing your Christian scriptures, any more than a Muslim citing the Quran can disprove the Hebrew Bible or anything other than proving what Muslims believe.

 

[Slade3200]

millions disagree, even LEARNED clergy who have a degree in theology

But you know more than them, i am sure

Apparently so. But people believe what they want to believe. To me that passage and the claim that god is all powerful/all good are contradictory

 

[The Irish Ram]

Red Front, The ability to watch end time prophecy being fulfilled gives the Bible the credence it needs for me.
The whole book, Old and New is about the Jews. Their past, their present and their future.
Let's watch the events unfold to see if God really can see the end from the beginning, and if what is prophesied is bilateral.
Right now we are in the "all nations will come against Israel" phase and sign the peace treaty phase.
And as it unfolds exactly as described, will that sway your mind that perhaps the rest of it is accurate as well?