The Ryan Budget

[Full-Auto]

The Ryan Budget


The only plan on the table.

The thought of a budget makes the dem leadership heads hurt.

Did anyone tell them they invented calculators?

Did anyone teach you basic math? Which loopholes is going to give Ryan over $700 billion a year? Child tax credit? Home mortgage deduction? State tax deduction? You know he's not going to go after Mitten's dancing horse write-off.

Take the fucking marbles out of your mouth and make some sense.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Really? Taxes jumped by 167% in four years? Hmm.

Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

2003 - $1.782T (lower than 1999 levels, by the way)
2007 - $2.568T

difference = $786B or a 44% increase. And that's without adjusting for inflation!

Using constant dollars:

2003 - $1.901T (lower than 1998 now)
2007 - $2.414T

difference = $513B or a 27% increase

You were saying?

edit: p.s.

For those following at home, yes, Todd is cherry picking his time frame. There's a reason he's talking about 2003-2007 only. That's because in 2003 revenue was at its lowest, and in 2007 it was its highest due to the housing bubble fueled in part by low interest rates.

Really? Taxes jumped by 167% in four years? Hmm.

Really, capital gains tax receipts jumped by 167% in four years.

There's a reason he's talking about 2003-2007 only.

I'm talking about 2003, because that's the year the Bush cuts in capital gains and dividends passed.
I'm talking about 2007 because capital gains always shrink after a crash.

and in 2007 it was its highest due to the housing bubble

If you have any info about the portion of the capital gains that were due to housing, I'd like to see it. I haven't seen a breakdown.

It took a while to find you a link. Feel free to use this in the future when discussing this topic.

Historical Capital Gains and Taxes

Yup. You're clearly cherry picking your time frame. But hey, I can do that too!

From 2000 to 2001, tax receipts from capital gains plummeted 61% in one year. The same year Bush took office and cut tax rates. Not since Reagan's record setting drop of 63% in one year has tax revenue from capital gains ever dropped so far in such a short amount of time. Clearly, this is proof that the Bush Tax Plan, and Reganomics as a whole, was a failure and we should reverse it.

Thanks Todd!

Nice catch. It shows that TP lied about capital gains staying even under Clinton.

 

[Dick Tuck]

The Ryan Budget


The only plan on the table.

The thought of a budget makes the dem leadership heads hurt.

Did anyone tell them they invented calculators?

Did anyone teach you basic math? Which loopholes is going to give Ryan over $700 billion a year? Child tax credit? Home mortgage deduction? State tax deduction? You know he's not going to go after Mitten's dancing horse write-off.

Take the fucking marbles out of your mouth and make some sense.

What the fuck doesn't make sense? Ryan's budget claims that he'll balance the budget, increase defense spending, and cut taxes for the wealthiest, by closing up loopholes amounting to $700 Billion a year.

You really aren't very smart.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Really? Taxes jumped by 167% in four years? Hmm.

Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

2003 - $1.782T (lower than 1999 levels, by the way)
2007 - $2.568T

difference = $786B or a 44% increase. And that's without adjusting for inflation!

Using constant dollars:

2003 - $1.901T (lower than 1998 now)
2007 - $2.414T

difference = $513B or a 27% increase

You were saying?

edit: p.s.

For those following at home, yes, Todd is cherry picking his time frame. There's a reason he's talking about 2003-2007 only. That's because in 2003 revenue was at its lowest, and in 2007 it was its highest due to the housing bubble fueled in part by low interest rates.

Really? Taxes jumped by 167% in four years? Hmm.

Really, capital gains tax receipts jumped by 167% in four years.

There's a reason he's talking about 2003-2007 only.

I'm talking about 2003, because that's the year the Bush cuts in capital gains and dividends passed.
I'm talking about 2007 because capital gains always shrink after a crash.

and in 2007 it was its highest due to the housing bubble

If you have any info about the portion of the capital gains that were due to housing, I'd like to see it. I haven't seen a breakdown.

It took a while to find you a link. Feel free to use this in the future when discussing this topic.

Historical Capital Gains and Taxes

Yup. You're clearly cherry picking your time frame. But hey, I can do that too!

From 2000 to 2001, tax receipts from capital gains plummeted 61% in one year. The same year Bush took office and cut tax rates. Not since Reagan's record setting drop of 63% in one year has tax revenue from capital gains ever dropped so far in such a short amount of time. Clearly, this is proof that the Bush Tax Plan, and Reganomics as a whole, was a failure and we should reverse it.

Thanks Todd!

Thanks for the link.

From 2000 to 2001, tax receipts from capital gains plummeted 61% in one year. The same year Bush took office and cut tax rates.

You should use your link, Bush didn't cut capital gains rates in 2001.

Not since Reagan's record setting drop of 63% in one year has tax revenue from capital gains ever dropped so far in such a short amount of time.

When did Reagan's number drop 63%?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Really? Taxes jumped by 167% in four years? Hmm.

Really, capital gains tax receipts jumped by 167% in four years.

There's a reason he's talking about 2003-2007 only.

I'm talking about 2003, because that's the year the Bush cuts in capital gains and dividends passed.
I'm talking about 2007 because capital gains always shrink after a crash.

and in 2007 it was its highest due to the housing bubble

If you have any info about the portion of the capital gains that were due to housing, I'd like to see it. I haven't seen a breakdown.

It took a while to find you a link. Feel free to use this in the future when discussing this topic.

Historical Capital Gains and Taxes

Yup. You're clearly cherry picking your time frame. But hey, I can do that too!

From 2000 to 2001, tax receipts from capital gains plummeted 61% in one year. The same year Bush took office and cut tax rates. Not since Reagan's record setting drop of 63% in one year has tax revenue from capital gains ever dropped so far in such a short amount of time. Clearly, this is proof that the Bush Tax Plan, and Reganomics as a whole, was a failure and we should reverse it.

Thanks Todd!

Nice catch. It shows that TP lied about capital gains staying even under Clinton.

Huh? What lie about Clinton? Where? Link?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Do you on the left even want to balance the budget? What's your plan?

 

[DontBeStupid]

The Ryan Budget


The only plan on the table.

The thought of a budget makes the dem leadership heads hurt.

Did anyone tell them they invented calculators?

Did anyone teach you basic math? Which loopholes is going to give Ryan over $700 billion a year? Child tax credit? Home mortgage deduction? State tax deduction? You know he's not going to go after Mitten's dancing horse write-off.

Take the fucking marbles out of your mouth and make some sense.

Ryan's Budget(s) claim(s) to increase revenue by some $700B by closing loopholes and deductions and such. Problem is, he never says what loopholes or deductions he will close. I would think that's kind of an important detail to mention, since if he is thinking about getting rid of the deduction for mortgage interest, foe example, that would result in a tax increase on every home owner. Not good.

 

[Full-Auto]

Did anyone teach you basic math? Which loopholes is going to give Ryan over $700 billion a year? Child tax credit? Home mortgage deduction? State tax deduction? You know he's not going to go after Mitten's dancing horse write-off.

Take the fucking marbles out of your mouth and make some sense.

What the fuck doesn't make sense? Ryan's budget claims that he'll balance the budget, increase defense spending, and cut taxes for the wealthiest, by closing up loopholes amounting to $700 Billion a year.

You really aren't very smart.

In 30 years..........So lets compare that to the dem plan...

See this is where you have to shut up....You guys arent intelligent enough..

You ca prove me wrong by showing us the dem budget....Can you mr blowhard sir?

 

[DontBeStupid]

Really? Taxes jumped by 167% in four years? Hmm.

Really, capital gains tax receipts jumped by 167% in four years.

There's a reason he's talking about 2003-2007 only.

I'm talking about 2003, because that's the year the Bush cuts in capital gains and dividends passed.
I'm talking about 2007 because capital gains always shrink after a crash.

and in 2007 it was its highest due to the housing bubble

If you have any info about the portion of the capital gains that were due to housing, I'd like to see it. I haven't seen a breakdown.

It took a while to find you a link. Feel free to use this in the future when discussing this topic.

Historical Capital Gains and Taxes

Yup. You're clearly cherry picking your time frame. But hey, I can do that too!

From 2000 to 2001, tax receipts from capital gains plummeted 61% in one year. The same year Bush took office and cut tax rates. Not since Reagan's record setting drop of 63% in one year has tax revenue from capital gains ever dropped so far in such a short amount of time. Clearly, this is proof that the Bush Tax Plan, and Reganomics as a whole, was a failure and we should reverse it.

Thanks Todd!

Thanks for the link.

From 2000 to 2001, tax receipts from capital gains plummeted 61% in one year. The same year Bush took office and cut tax rates.

You should use your link, Bush didn't cut capital gains rates in 2001.

Not since Reagan's record setting drop of 63% in one year has tax revenue from capital gains ever dropped so far in such a short amount of time.

When did Reagan's number drop 63%?

I never claimed Bush cut capital gains taxes in 2001. Clearly from the data you can see that any tax cut adversely affects capital gains. How else would you explain such a severe drop in revenue? Keeping in mind, that you already have established that the only thing that affects capital gains taxes is the tax rate and literally nothing else.

As for Reagan, the drop was from '86 to '87. It's pretty obvious if you look at the site I linked. Did you look at the site I linked?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It took a while to find you a link. Feel free to use this in the future when discussing this topic.

Historical Capital Gains and Taxes

Yup. You're clearly cherry picking your time frame. But hey, I can do that too!

From 2000 to 2001, tax receipts from capital gains plummeted 61% in one year. The same year Bush took office and cut tax rates. Not since Reagan's record setting drop of 63% in one year has tax revenue from capital gains ever dropped so far in such a short amount of time. Clearly, this is proof that the Bush Tax Plan, and Reganomics as a whole, was a failure and we should reverse it.

Thanks Todd!

Thanks for the link.

From 2000 to 2001, tax receipts from capital gains plummeted 61% in one year. The same year Bush took office and cut tax rates.

You should use your link, Bush didn't cut capital gains rates in 2001.

Not since Reagan's record setting drop of 63% in one year has tax revenue from capital gains ever dropped so far in such a short amount of time.

When did Reagan's number drop 63%?

I never claimed Bush cut capital gains taxes in 2001. Clearly from the data you can see that any tax cut adversely affects capital gains. How else would you explain such a severe drop in revenue? Keeping in mind, that you already have established that the only thing that affects capital gains taxes is the tax rate and literally nothing else.

As for Reagan, the drop was from '86 to '87. It's pretty obvious if you look at the site I linked. Did you look at the site I linked?

Reagan's number dropped 63% from '86 to '87?
Did you look at the site you linked?

 

[DontBeStupid]

Thanks for the link.

From 2000 to 2001, tax receipts from capital gains plummeted 61% in one year. The same year Bush took office and cut tax rates.

You should use your link, Bush didn't cut capital gains rates in 2001.

Not since Reagan's record setting drop of 63% in one year has tax revenue from capital gains ever dropped so far in such a short amount of time.

When did Reagan's number drop 63%?

I never claimed Bush cut capital gains taxes in 2001. Clearly from the data you can see that any tax cut adversely affects capital gains. How else would you explain such a severe drop in revenue? Keeping in mind, that you already have established that the only thing that affects capital gains taxes is the tax rate and literally nothing else.

As for Reagan, the drop was from '86 to '87. It's pretty obvious if you look at the site I linked. Did you look at the site I linked?

Reagan's number dropped 63% from '86 to '87?
Did you look at the site you linked?

Ok, so in my rush I flipped the numbers and Reagan had an actual 36.5% drop in one year. So Bush set the record. Happy now? While you're at, check the math on the drop in 1990 and 1991. Yes, I know Reagan was no longer President.

My point still stands. Bush had a drop of 61% in one year, which now I can say, is record setting. He also had a 24.6% drop from 2001 to 2002. Go ahead and double check that math. I know you will. In 2003, the year you claim all the cuts were finally in place, he had a "whopping" 4% increase. Check that math too. Come on. Make it official.

Look, if you want to nitpick, that's awesome. I don't care. It helps me solidify my argument, and, unlike you, that's why I'm here. But just know, pointing out my math errors does not disprove my argument. You're not disproving the drop in revenue Bush had. You're not disproving the drop Reagan had. You're not disproving the studies I linked to that show a long term drop in revenue.

But hey, if you want to help me improve my position, I'm all for it

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I never claimed Bush cut capital gains taxes in 2001. Clearly from the data you can see that any tax cut adversely affects capital gains. How else would you explain such a severe drop in revenue? Keeping in mind, that you already have established that the only thing that affects capital gains taxes is the tax rate and literally nothing else.

As for Reagan, the drop was from '86 to '87. It's pretty obvious if you look at the site I linked. Did you look at the site I linked?

Reagan's number dropped 63% from '86 to '87?
Did you look at the site you linked?

Ok, so in my rush I flipped the numbers and Reagan had an actual 36.5% drop in one year. So Bush set the record. Happy now? While you're at, check the math on the drop in 1990 and 1991. Yes, I know Reagan was no longer President.

My point still stands. Bush had a drop of 61% in one year, which now I can say, is record setting. He also had a 24.6% drop from 2001 to 2002. Go ahead and double check that math. I know you will. In 2003, the year you claim all the cuts were finally in place, he had a "whopping" 4% increase. Check that math too. Come on. Make it official.

Look, if you want to nitpick, that's awesome. I don't care. It helps me solidify my argument, and, unlike you, that's why I'm here. But just know, pointing out my math errors does not disprove my argument. You're not disproving the drop in revenue Bush had. You're not disproving the drop Reagan had. You're not disproving the studies I linked to that show a long term drop in revenue.

But hey, if you want to help me improve my position, I'm all for it

Ok, so in my rush I flipped the numbers and Reagan had an actual 36.5% drop in one year.

Excellent! That drop happened after Reagan raised the capital gains rate from 20% to 28%.

My point still stands. Bush had a drop of 61% in one year, which now I can say, is record setting.

While rates remained unchanged.

I know you will. In 2003, the year you claim all the cuts were finally in place, he had a "whopping" 4% increase.

The cuts didn't pass until the end of May, 2003.
The next year, receipts were up almost 43% over 2003.

You're not disproving the drop in revenue Bush had.

His capital gains revenues increased.

You're not disproving the drop Reagan had.

It's true, Reagan's capital gains revenues dropped when he raised the capital gains rates.
Thanks for helping me prove my point.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Do you on the left even want to balance the budget? What's your plan?

Increase revenues by restoring the Clinton tax level for the top rate. Cut defense spending to a reasonable peace time level. Use size to negotiate drug prices for Medicare. That should be enough to encourage foreign investment to the level achieved by Clinton, and help turn the economy around. Get rid of the concept of the "unified" budget. Social Security funds should be accounted for separately. It's disgusting how Bush used the surplus to hide the extent of his deficits. Cut all tax credits to the most profitable companies. Increase IRS enforcement and audits to collect back taxes. Bring back the Gore concept of streamlining government, using technologies, and process improvement. Simplify the tax system in general, by getting rid of all those congressional favors added to it over the years.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Reagan's number dropped 63% from '86 to '87?
Did you look at the site you linked?

Ok, so in my rush I flipped the numbers and Reagan had an actual 36.5% drop in one year. So Bush set the record. Happy now? While you're at, check the math on the drop in 1990 and 1991. Yes, I know Reagan was no longer President.

My point still stands. Bush had a drop of 61% in one year, which now I can say, is record setting. He also had a 24.6% drop from 2001 to 2002. Go ahead and double check that math. I know you will. In 2003, the year you claim all the cuts were finally in place, he had a "whopping" 4% increase. Check that math too. Come on. Make it official.

Look, if you want to nitpick, that's awesome. I don't care. It helps me solidify my argument, and, unlike you, that's why I'm here. But just know, pointing out my math errors does not disprove my argument. You're not disproving the drop in revenue Bush had. You're not disproving the drop Reagan had. You're not disproving the studies I linked to that show a long term drop in revenue.

But hey, if you want to help me improve my position, I'm all for it

Ok, so in my rush I flipped the numbers and Reagan had an actual 36.5% drop in one year.

Excellent! That drop happened after Reagan raised the capital gains rate from 20% to 28%.

My point still stands. Bush had a drop of 61% in one year, which now I can say, is record setting.

While rates remained unchanged.

I know you will. In 2003, the year you claim all the cuts were finally in place, he had a "whopping" 4% increase.

The cuts didn't pass until the end of May, 2003.
The next year, receipts were up almost 43% over 2003.

You're not disproving the drop in revenue Bush had.

His capital gains revenues increased.

You're not disproving the drop Reagan had.

It's true, Reagan's capital gains revenues dropped when he raised the capital gains rates.
Thanks for helping me prove my point.

Record setting? I suggest you look at FY 08 and 09.

 

[courseofhistory]

I guess Paul Ryan doesn't want children to have the same opportunities he did with his stance to cut SS:

One potential line of attack that this memo telegraphs is that “Ryan Used Social Security Benefits To Pay For His Education,” which fits in with progressive rebuttals of the dishonest “You didn’t build that” attack, and also highlights the attacks on Social Security in the Ryan budget...

According to US News and World Report, “Ryan’s father died when Paul was only 16. Using the Social Security survivor’s benefits he received until his 18th birthday, he paid for his education at Miami University in Ohio, where he completed a bachelor’s degree in economics and political science in 1992.” According to the Chicago Tribune, “Ryan’s late father was a lawyer who died when Ryan was 16. He has said his father’s death made him grow up fast. Until he was 18, Ryan, the youngest of four children, collected Social Security survivor’s benefits, which he said he socked away for college.” [US News and World Report, 7/23/08; Chicago Tribune, 4/17/11]

 

[hortysir]

I guess Paul Ryan doesn't want children to have the same opportunities he did with his stance to cut SS:

One potential line of attack that this memo telegraphs is that “Ryan Used Social Security Benefits To Pay For His Education,” which fits in with progressive rebuttals of the dishonest “You didn’t build that” attack, and also highlights the attacks on Social Security in the Ryan budget...

According to US News and World Report, “Ryan’s father died when Paul was only 16. Using the Social Security survivor’s benefits he received until his 18th birthday, he paid for his education at Miami University in Ohio, where he completed a bachelor’s degree in economics and political science in 1992.” According to the Chicago Tribune, “Ryan’s late father was a lawyer who died when Ryan was 16. He has said his father’s death made him grow up fast. Until he was 18, Ryan, the youngest of four children, collected Social Security survivor’s benefits, which he said he socked away for college.” [US News and World Report, 7/23/08; Chicago Tribune, 4/17/11]

Care to show us where, in the Ryan plan he eliminates SS bens?
Dick pasted a video, yesterday, but no mention of SS.

And, to Dick and Stupid:
You can talk about revenues all you want.
It means exactly SHIT.

We've been alive long enough to know that when congress brings in more money they SPEND more money.
Cut spending.
And by that I mean don't just not raise the spending as much as you did last time. That's not a cut.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Ok, so in my rush I flipped the numbers and Reagan had an actual 36.5% drop in one year. So Bush set the record. Happy now? While you're at, check the math on the drop in 1990 and 1991. Yes, I know Reagan was no longer President.

My point still stands. Bush had a drop of 61% in one year, which now I can say, is record setting. He also had a 24.6% drop from 2001 to 2002. Go ahead and double check that math. I know you will. In 2003, the year you claim all the cuts were finally in place, he had a "whopping" 4% increase. Check that math too. Come on. Make it official.

Look, if you want to nitpick, that's awesome. I don't care. It helps me solidify my argument, and, unlike you, that's why I'm here. But just know, pointing out my math errors does not disprove my argument. You're not disproving the drop in revenue Bush had. You're not disproving the drop Reagan had. You're not disproving the studies I linked to that show a long term drop in revenue.

But hey, if you want to help me improve my position, I'm all for it

Ok, so in my rush I flipped the numbers and Reagan had an actual 36.5% drop in one year.

Excellent! That drop happened after Reagan raised the capital gains rate from 20% to 28%.

My point still stands. Bush had a drop of 61% in one year, which now I can say, is record setting.

While rates remained unchanged.

I know you will. In 2003, the year you claim all the cuts were finally in place, he had a "whopping" 4% increase.

The cuts didn't pass until the end of May, 2003.
The next year, receipts were up almost 43% over 2003.

You're not disproving the drop in revenue Bush had.

His capital gains revenues increased.

You're not disproving the drop Reagan had.

It's true, Reagan's capital gains revenues dropped when he raised the capital gains rates.
Thanks for helping me prove my point.

Record setting? I suggest you look at FY 08 and 09.

He doesn't count those years. Just like he doesn't count 2001-2003. He will only count years he personally feels should be counted. And never adjusting for inflation.

He's a hack.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Ok, so in my rush I flipped the numbers and Reagan had an actual 36.5% drop in one year.

Excellent! That drop happened after Reagan raised the capital gains rate from 20% to 28%.

My point still stands. Bush had a drop of 61% in one year, which now I can say, is record setting.

While rates remained unchanged.

I know you will. In 2003, the year you claim all the cuts were finally in place, he had a "whopping" 4% increase.

The cuts didn't pass until the end of May, 2003.
The next year, receipts were up almost 43% over 2003.

You're not disproving the drop in revenue Bush had.

His capital gains revenues increased.

You're not disproving the drop Reagan had.

It's true, Reagan's capital gains revenues dropped when he raised the capital gains rates.
Thanks for helping me prove my point.

Record setting? I suggest you look at FY 08 and 09.

He doesn't count those years. Just like he doesn't count 2001-2003. He will only count years he personally feels should be counted. And never adjusting for inflation.

He's a hack.

He will only count years he personally feels should be counted.

Yeah, the years when rates were cut and then revenues increased.
Feel free to adjust for inflation if you think that will show a decrease instead.

 

[DontBeStupid]

I'll tell you what really surprises me. We're over 130 comments in this thread and still no one has come here to defend the Ryan Budget(s) and say, specifically, why they're the right direction for America. Add that in with 21 out of 32 respondents not liking the budget(s) and I think this is going to be a tough sell.

 

[DontBeStupid]

He will only count years he personally feels should be counted.

Yeah, the years when rates were cut and then revenues increased.
Feel free to adjust for inflation if you think that will show a decrease instead.

While ignoring the years when rates went up and revenue went up.

Like I said, cherry picking.

Which makes you a hack.