The Right to Work for less money

[Ravi]

As is the right to collectively bargain crucial to our society.

What these laws end up doing, in all reality, is forbid people to get together and bargain as a group.

Not at all. Form a union all you want. Just don't force membership.

The requirement to pay agency fees, which loosely translates as union membership but not exactly,

is an agreement reached by the EMPLOYER and the union. So-called right to work laws interfere with the right of employers and employees to make that agreement.

There is no purpose to right to work laws other than to weaken the ability of employees to negotiate better wages/benefits, etc.

No purpose whatsoever, despite the propaganda.

Exactly.

And why should the government be allowed to meddle in an agreement between a business and its employees?

 

[kwc57]

As is the right to collectively bargain crucial to our society.

What these laws end up doing, in all reality, is forbid people to get together and bargain as a group.

Really? Where did you hear that? Obama and unions? They do no such thing. Unions can organize and do all the things they always have. They just can't legally force you to join them. If you want to be a pipefitter, but you don't want to join the pipefitter's union, you don't have to. You can work at your choice of profession without being forced to join an organization against your will. That is what right to work laws do.

Joining the union is a condition of employment like any other condition of employment, if that is what the employer and employees have agreed to in a contract.

It is what an employer has been forced into thru strong arm tactics. Don't give us what we want and we won't come to work, won't allow other workers entry into the factory and we'll put you out of business. How many employers do you think really enjoy having a contract with a union. Accepting it is a matter of survival, not choice.

 

[SniperFire]

Not at all. Form a union all you want. Just don't force membership.

The requirement to pay agency fees, which loosely translates as union membership but not exactly,

is an agreement reached by the EMPLOYER and the union. So-called right to work laws interfere with the right of employers and employees to make that agreement.

There is no purpose to right to work laws other than to weaken the ability of employees to negotiate better wages/benefits, etc.

No purpose whatsoever, despite the propaganda.

Exactly.

And why should the government be allowed to meddle in an agreement between a business and its employees?

Wow. You favor repeal of collective bargaining laws, then?

 

[Paulie]

Unions require that all union members donate money to the democratic party through their union dues.

You barely ever add anything of substance to a discussion.

Really? It was a highly accurate statement.

Where the union dues are going is kind of irrelevant to this though. As a member of the union you do have a voice and a say in that, as small and insignificant as it might be.

The point is that the dues shouldn't be required for employment. Where they're being spent is a different discussion.

 

[eflatminor]

As is the right to collectively bargain crucial to our society.

What these laws end up doing, in all reality, is forbid people to get together and bargain as a group.

Really? Where did you hear that? Obama and unions? They do no such thing. Unions can organize and do all the things they always have. They just can't legally force you to join them. If you want to be a pipefitter, but you don't want to join the pipefitter's union, you don't have to. You can work at your choice of profession without being forced to join an organization against your will. That is what right to work laws do.

Joining the union is a condition of employment like any other condition of employment, if that is what the employer and employees have agreed to in a contract.

And if that condition of employment was to join the Republican party, you'd have no problem with that, right?

 

[beretta304]

A right-to-work law would be good for Michigan because “a flood of economic evidence shows that right-to-work states have done better at attracting investment and jobs than have more heavily unionized states,” the editorial states.

A West Michigan Policy Forum study shows that of the 10 states with the highest rate of personal income growth, eight have right-to-work laws. That’s helping these states draw in tax payers. Between 2000 and 2010, right-to-work states attracted 5 million people from compulsory union states.

“As impressive as all of this evidence is, the best case for right to work is moral: the right of an individual to choose,” Journal editors write. “Union chiefs want to coerce workers to join and pay dues that they then funnel to politicians who protect union power. Right to work breaks this cycle of government-aided monopoly union power for the larger economic good.”


WSJ: Mich. Right to Work Law Would Bolster Economy

 

[dblack]

Once again, I'm proven right whenever I've said that all conservative policies and positions regarding economic issues are designed to widen the gap between rich and poor.

Right to work is one more example. Weaken labor, drive down wages, people get poorer.

What about the right to work for less, in particular? Is that a right government should protect? Should it be against the law for me to offer my services for less money without a union's approval?

 

[kwc57]

Once again, I'm proven right whenever I've said that all conservative policies and positions regarding economic issues are designed to widen the gap between rich and poor.

Right to work is one more example. Weaken labor, drive down wages, people get poorer.

You're a legend in your own mind!

Edited to add: Apologies to Baretta who beat me to the punch. Great minds think alike.

 

[GoneBezerk]

If unions are sooooooooo good then they have nothing to fear. Workers will just sign up to pay dues when they get the job to work among them.

Unions know they are thieves and that workers will quit paying them money on the side to keep their job if the union has no power over them after today.

 

[SniperFire]

Obama is proud as a peacock over the good employment gains made in the right-to-work states.

He brags about it constantly.

In First 45 Months In Office, Obama Created 750,000 Private Sector Jobs, Bush Lost More Than One Million | ThinkProgress

 

[Paulie]

Really? Where did you hear that? Obama and unions? They do no such thing. Unions can organize and do all the things they always have. They just can't legally force you to join them. If you want to be a pipefitter, but you don't want to join the pipefitter's union, you don't have to. You can work at your choice of profession without being forced to join an organization against your will. That is what right to work laws do.

Joining the union is a condition of employment like any other condition of employment, if that is what the employer and employees have agreed to in a contract.

It is what an employer has been forced into thru strong arm tactics. Don't give us what we want and we won't come to work, won't allow other workers entry into the factory and we'll put you out of business. How many employers do you think really enjoy having a contract with a union. Accepting it is a matter of survival, not choice.

Now THIS is a good argument though.

Unions make their own bad name for themselves by how they act when they don't like how something is going for them. Pulling all their teaching labor in the middle of a fucking school year, for instance.

Or pulling their labor from a company like Verizon which only really ends up hurting the employer and the customer base.

 

[dblack]

Really? Where did you hear that? Obama and unions? They do no such thing. Unions can organize and do all the things they always have. They just can't legally force you to join them. If you want to be a pipefitter, but you don't want to join the pipefitter's union, you don't have to. You can work at your choice of profession without being forced to join an organization against your will. That is what right to work laws do.

Joining the union is a condition of employment like any other condition of employment, if that is what the employer and employees have agreed to in a contract.

And if that condition of employment was to join the Republican party, you'd have no problem with that, right?

You've already asked me, and I answered. But I think it's worth pointing that I would, in fact, have quite a problem with it. I wouldn't work for such a company, and would likely avoid doing business with them. But it doesn't violate anyone's rights for them to make such ridiculous demands, and it should not be illegal.

 

[Polk]

It isn't about the right to work for less money. It's about the right to work and not being forced to join a union. Let's cut the bullshit. And there's at least 2 if not 3 other threads on this.

That'd be cool if all government interference between labor and management were cut out.

You'd support that, right?

Free Markets!

The government should just leave business alone. Except when those uppity workers start striking. Then call out the army to show them their place.

 

[uscitizen]

As long as the right to work laws only allow "open shops" where one does not have to belong to the union nor pay dues to work in a "union job" then I am all for them.

The union needs to show how it is a benefit to make paying their dues worthwhile.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Yes, Obamination used the economic gains in Ohio and Florida led by Republicans in those states as proof his bullshit policies are working. Those states have lowered taxes, regulations, etc on businesses but Obamination comes in and fools the minority voters in those states that "he did it."

Obama is proud as a peacock over the good employment gains made in the right-to-work states.

He brags about it constantly.

In First 45 Months In Office, Obama Created 750,000 Private Sector Jobs, Bush Lost More Than One Million | ThinkProgress

 

[Polk]

I don't think it's bullshit at all. I think the right to work for less money is crucial to productive society. Many of our problems, especially economic problems, are created exactly when we try to interfere with this right. The right to work for less money is what provides all of us with the good and services we need at reasonable prices.

As is the right to collectively bargain crucial to our society.

What these laws end up doing, in all reality, is forbid people to get together and bargain as a group.

Really? Where did you hear that? Obama and unions? They do no such thing. Unions can organize and do all the things they always have. They just can't legally force you to join them. If you want to be a pipefitter, but you don't want to join the pipefitter's union, you don't have to. You can work at your choice of profession without being forced to join an organization against your will. That is what right to work laws do.

Except that firms are still required to pay the non-union members the union wage. The result is that no one will join the union, because hey, you get the benefit whether you join or not.

 

[beretta304]

Unions are wonderful and Detroit is a ghost town. A ghost town run by Democrats.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Really? Where did you hear that? Obama and unions? They do no such thing. Unions can organize and do all the things they always have. They just can't legally force you to join them. If you want to be a pipefitter, but you don't want to join the pipefitter's union, you don't have to. You can work at your choice of profession without being forced to join an organization against your will. That is what right to work laws do.

Joining the union is a condition of employment like any other condition of employment, if that is what the employer and employees have agreed to in a contract.

Keyword: "if". Who writes the contract, the union or the employer?

You've never heard of 'negotiations'?

 

[SniperFire]

Union are wonderful and Detroit is a ghost town. A ghost town run by Democrats.

Detroit is a veritable Democrat Mecca of ignorant and dependent voters.


Only 7% of Detroit Public-School 8th Graders Proficient in Reading

Only 7% of Detroit Public-School 8th Graders Proficient in Reading | CNS News

 

[Paulie]

As is the right to collectively bargain crucial to our society.

What these laws end up doing, in all reality, is forbid people to get together and bargain as a group.

Really? Where did you hear that? Obama and unions? They do no such thing. Unions can organize and do all the things they always have. They just can't legally force you to join them. If you want to be a pipefitter, but you don't want to join the pipefitter's union, you don't have to. You can work at your choice of profession without being forced to join an organization against your will. That is what right to work laws do.

Except that firms are still required to pay the non-union members the union wage. The result is that no one will join the union, because hey, you get the benefit whether you join or not.

Required by who?