The Right to Work for less money

[Sallow]

If you think it's acceptable for a business to require it's workers to join a union, would you also be okay with a business that required its workers to join a political party? How about a particular church? Or the local Elks Lodge? What if a business required its workers to join the National Right to Work Committee, an organization that lobbies against forced unionization?

If you're okay with businesses forcing workers to join unions, then you have to accept the slippery slope of business forcing workers to join all kinds of organizations. After all, the worker can always look for another job if they don't like it, right?

You've got a point.

No one should be "forced" to do anything.

So along with this..we should do away with licenses and patents. Copyrights too.

After all..we all want Free Markets.

Right?

Licenses are forced compliance. Patents and copyrights are merely protection of property. Apples and oranges.

Well no.

But thanks for playing.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It isn't about the right to work for less money. It's about the right to work and not being forced to join a union. Let's cut the bullshit. And there's at least 2 if not 3 other threads on this.

That'd be cool if all government interference between labor and management were cut out.

You'd support that, right?

Free Markets!

Every form of business is regulated. Some appropriatly and some onerously. Why would you exempt unions from the same practices?

We are witnessing the death throws of the unions. They have been losing power for decades now. The people have chosen and they chose not to be forced to participate in a legal racketeering scheme.

Unions have bankrupted many industries and its time to put the power back in the hands of the people rather than a few greedy politicians masquerading as union reps

 

[NYcarbineer]

I don't think it's bullshit at all. I think the right to work for less money is crucial to productive society. Many of our problems, especially economic problems, are created exactly when we try to interfere with this right. The right to work for less money is what provides all of us with the good and services we need at reasonable prices.

As is the right to collectively bargain crucial to our society.

What these laws end up doing, in all reality, is forbid people to get together and bargain as a group.

Really? Where did you hear that? Obama and unions? They do no such thing. Unions can organize and do all the things they always have. They just can't legally force you to join them. If you want to be a pipefitter, but you don't want to join the pipefitter's union, you don't have to. You can work at your choice of profession without being forced to join an organization against your will. That is what right to work laws do.

Joining the union is a condition of employment like any other condition of employment, if that is what the employer and employees have agreed to in a contract.

 

[beretta304]

You've got a point.

No one should be "forced" to do anything.

So along with this..we should do away with licenses and patents. Copyrights too.

After all..we all want Free Markets.

Right?

Licenses and patents do not deduct union dues automatically from workers checks.

Yes..but they do artificially interfere with a free market and automatically cut out participation in it. And it's government interference.

You support it?

Licenses and patents interfere with a free market and automatically cut out participation in it.

How so?

 

[GoneBezerk]

Union workers are only 17% of Michigan's workforce.

They are the MINORITY....so they need to shut the fuck up.

Michigan's unions used to make up 40% of the workforce but they have driven business out of the state, thus why they are the minoritiy today.

 

[Paulie]

As is the right to collectively bargain crucial to our society.

What these laws end up doing, in all reality, is forbid people to get together and bargain as a group.

Not at all. Form a union all you want. Just don't force membership.

The requirement to pay agency fees, which loosely translates as union membership but not exactly,

is an agreement reached by the EMPLOYER and the union. So-called right to work laws interfere with the right of employers and employees to make that agreement.

There is no purpose to right to work laws other than to weaken the ability of employees to negotiate better wages/benefits, etc.

No purpose whatsoever, despite the propaganda.

If your only argument against the law is that its purpose is to keep people from making more money, then you're contribution to the discussion is worthless because that's a ridiculous assertion.

At least if you just said it's "because republicans just don't like unions" it would make sense.

 

[SniperFire]

As is the right to collectively bargain crucial to our society.

What these laws end up doing, in all reality, is forbid people to get together and bargain as a group.

Not at all. Form a union all you want. Just don't force membership.

The requirement to pay agency fees, which loosely translates as union membership but not exactly,

is an agreement reached by the EMPLOYER and the union. So-called right to work laws interfere with the right of employers and employees to make that agreement.

There is no purpose to right to work laws other than to weaken the ability of employees to negotiate better wages/benefits, etc.

No purpose whatsoever, despite the propaganda.

Wrong. Another good reason is for an employee to not be forced to donate - via dues - to political causes they do not support.

 

[eflatminor]

Yep. As long as the "forcing" you refer to doesn't actually involve force, but instead consists of voluntary employment.

For the record, I wouldn't work for a company requiring any of the things you suggest - including mandatory union membership.

Okay then, I appreciate the consistency of your argument. I think it's bat shit crazy, but at least it's consistent. Somehow, I seriously doubt the pro union lefties would be okay with a major corporation requiring, as a condition of employment, all of its employees to join the Republican party. But at least we know you wouldn't mind at all.

Should business be able to hire only family members?

False example. One cannot undo a family relationship. You're born into a family, that's always your family, like it or not. In other words, a family run business has not forced it's employees to join anything. They just happen to be family members.

Now, if that family owned business says to a potential employee, "You're not a member of our family, so in order to hire you, you have to marry one of my daughters", then we'd have a reasonable comparison with requirements to join unions. And both examples should be illegal, in my opinion.

 

[Sallow]

If you think it's acceptable for a business to require it's workers to join a union, would you also be okay with a business that required its workers to join a political party? How about a particular church? Or the local Elks Lodge? What if a business required its workers to join the National Right to Work Committee, an organization that lobbies against forced unionization?

If you're okay with businesses forcing workers to join unions, then you have to accept the slippery slope of business forcing workers to join all kinds of organizations. After all, the worker can always look for another job if they don't like it, right?

You've got a point.

No one should be "forced" to do anything.

So along with this..we should do away with licenses and patents. Copyrights too.

After all..we all want Free Markets.

Right?

Look, I have an apple in this hand. I have a cow in this hand. Put them together and I have a space shuttle. I like your logic!

Well no.

At the base of the argument is the notion that Unions somehow interfere with a Free Market.

That's basically true. They do.

So do the things I listed.

It's just at the other end of the scale.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Once again, I'm proven right whenever I've said that all conservative policies and positions regarding economic issues are designed to widen the gap between rich and poor.

Right to work is one more example. Weaken labor, drive down wages, people get poorer.

 

[beretta304]

As is the right to collectively bargain crucial to our society.

What these laws end up doing, in all reality, is forbid people to get together and bargain as a group.

Really? Where did you hear that? Obama and unions? They do no such thing. Unions can organize and do all the things they always have. They just can't legally force you to join them. If you want to be a pipefitter, but you don't want to join the pipefitter's union, you don't have to. You can work at your choice of profession without being forced to join an organization against your will. That is what right to work laws do.

Joining the union is a condition of employment like any other condition of employment, if that is what the employer and employees have agreed to in a contract.

Keyword: "if". Who writes the contract, the union or the employer?

 

[dblack]

As is the right to collectively bargain crucial to our society.

What these laws end up doing, in all reality, is forbid people to get together and bargain as a group.

Really? Where did you hear that? Obama and unions? They do no such thing. Unions can organize and do all the things they always have. They just can't legally force you to join them. If you want to be a pipefitter, but you don't want to join the pipefitter's union, you don't have to. You can work at your choice of profession without being forced to join an organization against your will. That is what right to work laws do.

Joining the union is a condition of employment like any other condition of employment, if that is what the employer and employees have agreed to in a contract.

The question is: Is such a contract valid if either party was coerced into accepting it?

 

[Paulie]

You've got a point.

No one should be "forced" to do anything.

So along with this..we should do away with licenses and patents. Copyrights too.

After all..we all want Free Markets.

Right?

Licenses are forced compliance. Patents and copyrights are merely protection of property. Apples and oranges.

Well no.

But thanks for playing.

It is though. License means pay to play. Patents are completely voluntary.

 

[Ravi]

I don't think it's bullshit at all. I think the right to work for less money is crucial to productive society. Many of our problems, especially economic problems, are created exactly when we try to interfere with this right. The right to work for less money is what provides all of us with the good and services we need at reasonable prices.

As is the right to collectively bargain crucial to our society.

What these laws end up doing, in all reality, is forbid people to get together and bargain as a group.

Not at all. Form a union all you want. Just don't force membership.

Again, if we are talking about Michigan, they already are forbidden from forcing membership. If you don't join a union, you won't benefit from any bargaining they do.

Also, no one is FORCED to accept a job that is unionized.

 

[kwc57]

If you think it's acceptable for a business to require it's workers to join a union, would you also be okay with a business that required its workers to join a political party? How about a particular church? Or the local Elks Lodge? What if a business required its workers to join the National Right to Work Committee, an organization that lobbies against forced unionization?

If you're okay with businesses forcing workers to join unions, then you have to accept the slippery slope of business forcing workers to join all kinds of organizations. After all, the worker can always look for another job if they don't like it, right?

Unions require that all union members donate money to the democratic party through their union dues.

You barely ever add anything of substance to a discussion.

Really? It was a highly accurate statement.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Not at all. Form a union all you want. Just don't force membership.

The requirement to pay agency fees, which loosely translates as union membership but not exactly,

is an agreement reached by the EMPLOYER and the union. So-called right to work laws interfere with the right of employers and employees to make that agreement.

There is no purpose to right to work laws other than to weaken the ability of employees to negotiate better wages/benefits, etc.

No purpose whatsoever, despite the propaganda.

Wrong. Another good reason is for an employee to not be forced to donate - via dues - to political causes they do not support.

This proves how ignorant you are. Employees already have an opt out right on the portion of dues that go to political causes.

 

[SniperFire]

Once again, I'm proven right whenever I've said that all conservative policies and positions regarding economic issues are designed to widen the gap between rich and poor.

Right to work is one more example. Weaken labor, drive down wages, people get poorer.

Wait a minute.

Didn't Obama proudly claim credit for the private sector job gains in right-to-work states over the past few years?

 

[beretta304]

Once again, I'm proven right whenever I've said that all conservative policies and positions regarding economic issues are designed to widen the gap between rich and poor.

Right to work is one more example. Weaken labor, drive down wages, people get poorer.

You're a legend in your own mind.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Actually idiot....Obamination has put more people on Food Stamps than any other POTUS in history.

His policy is to drive people out of their jobs with higher corporate taxes and regulations, along with Obamacare so that people will just be sucked into the Govt web of welfare.

He knows people on welfare will keep voting for scum liberals like you....so in the end the middle class goes away and there are the rich and the poor in this country. Obamination knows liberal rich people will vote his way, so conservatism would die.

Once again, I'm proven right whenever I've said that all conservative policies and positions regarding economic issues are designed to widen the gap between rich and poor.

Right to work is one more example. Weaken labor, drive down wages, people get poorer.

 

[eflatminor]

You've got a point.

No one should be "forced" to do anything.

So along with this..we should do away with licenses and patents. Copyrights too.

After all..we all want Free Markets.

Right?

Licenses and patents do not deduct union dues automatically from workers checks.

Yes..but they do artificially interfere with a free market and automatically cut out participation in it. And it's government interference.

I disagree. Patents and copyrights are merely protections on privately owned property, an essential, fundamental principal of free markets. They do not "cut out participation", they allow capital to have a shot at realizing a return on investment, without which there would be no market, free or otherwise.