The Politics of the "Abortion" Word Games

[NYcarbineer]

The real question is what does it mean to be 'human'?

And, it seems that the answer depends on where you reside on the political spectrum
For Liberals/Progressives/Democrats, a major selling point of their worldview is in allowing moral relativity, self-determined morality, and 'if it feels good, do it."

The corollary of same is that one must never, never be judgmental.
And with abortion, the right to kill "it" depends on how you define....or rationalize....what "it" is.

1. The abortion argument revolves around whether or not life begins at conception. For those who wish to see abortion as the mothers’ right, or decision, then there must be a separate understanding of the terms ‘life’ and ‘person:’ such a distinction is widely accepted today on the secular Left.

a. If life begins at one time, and ‘personhood’ comes into being some time later, then, clearly, they are two different things. The validation of this thinking can be found in Roe v. Wade, which found that a fetus is human from the beginning, but not a person until some time later, at 24 weeks, “the earliest point at which it can be proven that the fetus has the capacity to have a meaningful life as a person.”
Civil Rights of a Fetus - Law Philosophy and Religion

b. Dating back to antiquity, most cultures have assumed that a human being comprises both physical and spiritual elements: body and soul. Contemporary thought, it seems, has split these apart. In accordance with liberal or Postmodernist thinking, there is the autonomous self, the person versus the Modernist concept of a biochemical machine, the body.

1. 1. If one accepts this divided concept of human nature, i.e., person, and body, this aligns one with the liberal political view, which rejects moral limits on desire as a violation of its liberty.
   2. An interesting comment is that of Joseph Fletcher, founder of the theory of situational ethics: “What is critical is personal status, not merely human status.” In his view, fetuses and newborns are “sub-personal,” and therefore fail to qualify for the right to life. Joseph Fletcher, “Humanhood: Essays in Biomedical Ethics,” p. ll. "It struck me how similar this idea is to the Nazi concept of “untermenschen” for Jews, gypsies, slavs, any non-aryans." Pearcey, "Saving Leonardo," chapter three

1. As for the response ‘If you’re against abortion, don’t have one,” it’s not quite that easy…this rebuttal sidesteps the fact that once one accepts this view, it entails acceptance of the worldview that justifies same. It is less a private matter than one that dictates how people can behave toward each other...e.g., "if you don’t agree with robbing banks, then don’t rob any.”

If one has that that view so common in Liberals/Progressives/Democrats, .....this means that anything....anything, no matter how heartless or diabolical....one chooses to do with/to the pre-person stage.....it's all good.

That's why Liberals/Progressives/Democrats were fine with electing a President who had no problem with infanticide.

And what is your opinion?

I was gonna say "what are you, an imbecile???"....but that would be gilding the lily.

lol, and to think it was only an hour or so ago that you called me a liar for saying that you have a habit of obfuscating when it comes to trying to get you to take an actual stand on an issue.

I'll tell you what your stand should be:

1. You believe that human life begins at conception.

2. The taking of an innocent human life constitutes murder.

3 Therefore, abortion should be outlawed as a crime of murder, and women who break that law should be arrested, tried, and convicted of murder.

Fair enough? Any of that you disagree with?

 

[NYcarbineer]

What are human beings if they have no soul? Machines?

Conservatives.

 

[TSJohnson]

A fetus is not a child. It would be called a child if it were. They're two different fucking things. Grow up, learn science, and stop trying to control women's bodies. The only body you have any right to is your own. You don't get to decide whether or not to force anyone to become or remain pregnant. You have no say in whether or when someone spawns. The only rights you have are to your own fucking self. Do you understand this? Do you understand that this is why nothing you said is even valid? They're not even real fucking opinions. You know they're wrong. You know why they're wrong. Now grow the fuck up and stop pretending to believe shit you have no right to believe.

So...all one need do is change your title and you can be.....'erased'?

Good to know, moron.

It's not a title. It's a name. Things have names. Trees aren't seeds. They're two different things. Trees just come from seeds. Fetuses aren't children. Fetuses develop into babies given adequate care and resources. Children develop from babies given the same things. A fetus is no more a child than a tree is a seed. I'm not going to argue this with you though. I've already explained to you that your opinions aren't even worth being argued with. Even that would grant them illegitimate legitimacy. What you're going to do - right this instant - is stop thinking them, stop saying evil lies about people, grow up, and act like a decent, normal human being. Do you understand me?

 

[NYcarbineer]

If you declare the fetus to be a person by law, then you HAVE to make abortion the crime of murder.

Otherwise, you will have by law sanctioned infanticide.

 

[TSJohnson]

A fetus is not a child. It would be called a child if it were. They're two different fucking things. Grow up, learn science, and stop trying to control women's bodies. The only body you have any right to is your own. You don't get to decide whether or not to force anyone to become or remain pregnant. You have no say in whether or when someone spawns. The only rights you have are to your own fucking self. Do you understand this? Do you understand that this is why nothing you said is even valid? They're not even real fucking opinions. You know they're wrong. You know why they're wrong. Now grow the fuck up and stop pretending to believe shit you have no right to believe.

You can call them Martians or Daisies if you like, that's the crux of the matter. One side calls them babies, the other calls them anything but. That's how you can allow their murders without conscience.

Calling pro-choicers murderers needs to end US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum It's not fucking murder. It's medicine. I will not allow you to use this slanderous word again.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

A fetus is not a child. It would be called a child if it were. They're two different fucking things. Grow up, learn science, and stop trying to control women's bodies. The only body you have any right to is your own. You don't get to decide whether or not to force anyone to become or remain pregnant. You have no say in whether or when someone spawns. The only rights you have are to your own fucking self. Do you understand this? Do you understand that this is why nothing you said is even valid? They're not even real fucking opinions. You know they're wrong. You know why they're wrong. Now grow the fuck up and stop pretending to believe shit you have no right to believe.

You can call them Martians or Daisies if you like, that's the crux of the matter. One side calls them babies, the other calls them anything but. That's how you can allow their murders without conscience.

Difference is, ignorant and agenda-driven RWs are wrong.

Calling a fetus a child does not make it so.

Nonetheless, the bottom line to the non-argument is and will always be that no one has the right to force a woman to reproduce.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Ah, the abortion is infanticide or murder argument.

Legally it is just not so.

I don't think anyone would argue that point. But we do know that legality changes with public opinion, as was the case with slavery and banning abortions.

Legislating morality is never a good idea.

Legislating immorality is even worse.

Forcing a woman to reproduce is immoral.

 

[Vigilante]

A fetus is not a child. It would be called a child if it were. They're two different fucking things. Grow up, learn science, and stop trying to control women's bodies. The only body you have any right to is your own. You don't get to decide whether or not to force anyone to become or remain pregnant. You have no say in whether or when someone spawns. The only rights you have are to your own fucking self. Do you understand this? Do you understand that this is why nothing you said is even valid? They're not even real fucking opinions. You know they're wrong. You know why they're wrong. Now grow the fuck up and stop pretending to believe shit you have no right to believe.

You can call them Martians or Daisies if you like, that's the crux of the matter. One side calls them babies, the other calls them anything but. That's how you can allow their murders without conscience.

Difference is, ignorant and agenda-driven RWs are wrong.

Calling a fetus a child does not make it so.

Nonetheless, the bottom line to the non-argument is and will always be that no one has the right to force a woman to reproduce.

No wonder most SANE people laugh at your posts... you fucking immoral bitch!

 

[BluesLegend]

A fetus is no more a child than a tree is a seed.

^^^ possibly the most disgusting thing I will read in 2015.

 

[Carib Gyal]

A fetus is not a child. It would be called a child if it were. They're two different fucking things. Grow up, learn science, and stop trying to control women's bodies. The only body you have any right to is your own. You don't get to decide whether or not to force anyone to become or remain pregnant. You have no say in whether or when someone spawns. The only rights you have are to your own fucking self. Do you understand this? Do you understand that this is why nothing you said is even valid? They're not even real fucking opinions. You know they're wrong. You know why they're wrong. Now grow the fuck up and stop pretending to believe shit you have no right to believe.

You can call them Martians or Daisies if you like, that's the crux of the matter. One side calls them babies, the other calls them anything but. That's how you can allow their murders without conscience.

Calling pro-choicers murderers needs to end US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum It's not fucking murder. It's medicine. I will not allow you to use this slanderous word again.

Fortunately, this is not Islam and you can't silence me for offending you or disagreeing with you.

 

[PoliticalChic]

A fetus is not a child. It would be called a child if it were. They're two different fucking things. Grow up, learn science, and stop trying to control women's bodies. The only body you have any right to is your own. You don't get to decide whether or not to force anyone to become or remain pregnant. You have no say in whether or when someone spawns. The only rights you have are to your own fucking self. Do you understand this? Do you understand that this is why nothing you said is even valid? They're not even real fucking opinions. You know they're wrong. You know why they're wrong. Now grow the fuck up and stop pretending to believe shit you have no right to believe.

So...all one need do is change your title and you can be.....'erased'?

Good to know, moron.

It's not a title. It's a name. Things have names. Trees aren't seeds. They're two different things. Trees just come from seeds. Fetuses aren't children. Fetuses develop into babies given adequate care and resources. Children develop from babies given the same things. A fetus is no more a child than a tree is a seed. I'm not going to argue this with you though. I've already explained to you that your opinions aren't even worth being argued with. Even that would grant them illegitimate legitimacy. What you're going to do - right this instant - is stop thinking them, stop saying evil lies about people, grow up, and act like a decent, normal human being. Do you understand me?

What a truly stupid defense of murder.

Get back into your sewer.

 

[TSJohnson]

A fetus is not a child. It would be called a child if it were. They're two different fucking things. Grow up, learn science, and stop trying to control women's bodies. The only body you have any right to is your own. You don't get to decide whether or not to force anyone to become or remain pregnant. You have no say in whether or when someone spawns. The only rights you have are to your own fucking self. Do you understand this? Do you understand that this is why nothing you said is even valid? They're not even real fucking opinions. You know they're wrong. You know why they're wrong. Now grow the fuck up and stop pretending to believe shit you have no right to believe.

You can call them Martians or Daisies if you like, that's the crux of the matter. One side calls them babies, the other calls them anything but. That's how you can allow their murders without conscience.

Calling pro-choicers murderers needs to end US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum It's not fucking murder. It's medicine. I will not allow you to use this slanderous word again.

Fortunately, this is not Islam and you can't silence me for offending you or disagreeing with you.

The report button exists for a reason. I'll be more than happy to use it.

 

[Carib Gyal]

A fetus is not a child. It would be called a child if it were. They're two different fucking things. Grow up, learn science, and stop trying to control women's bodies. The only body you have any right to is your own. You don't get to decide whether or not to force anyone to become or remain pregnant. You have no say in whether or when someone spawns. The only rights you have are to your own fucking self. Do you understand this? Do you understand that this is why nothing you said is even valid? They're not even real fucking opinions. You know they're wrong. You know why they're wrong. Now grow the fuck up and stop pretending to believe shit you have no right to believe.

You can call them Martians or Daisies if you like, that's the crux of the matter. One side calls them babies, the other calls them anything but. That's how you can allow their murders without conscience.

Calling pro-choicers murderers needs to end US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum It's not fucking murder. It's medicine. I will not allow you to use this slanderous word again.

Fortunately, this is not Islam and you can't silence me for offending you or disagreeing with you.

The report button exists for a reason. I'll be more than happy to use it.

Those who believe in abortion believe in murdering unborn children.

 

[PoliticalChic]

If you declare the fetus to be a person by law, then you HAVE to make abortion the crime of murder.

Otherwise, you will have by law sanctioned infanticide.

1. "....pointing out that Obama voted in favor of a law that protected abortion providers during his term as state senator of Illinois

"You did not once during the 2008 campaign ask why Barack Obama voted in favor of legalizing infanticide,"Gingrich said. "If we're going to debate about who is the extremist on this issues, it is President Obama, who, as a state senator, voted to protect doctors who killed babies."
Newt Gingrich Calls Obama An 'Extremist' Who Supported 'Infanticide' At GOP Debate


2. n·fan·ti·cide/inˈfantiˌsīd/
Noun:
The practice in some societies of killing unwanted children soon after birth.


3. "Gingrich was presumably referencing Obama’s opposition to Illinois’ proposed version of a “born alive” law,intended to require doctors to administer immediate medical care to any infant that survived an intended abortion....FactCheck.org found holes in Obama’s explanations as to why he did not support the “born alive” legislation..."
FACT CHECK: Gingrich Claim on Obama Infanticide Vote A Stretch - Naureen Khan - NationalJournal.com

a. "Obama voted in committee against the 2003 state bill that was nearly identical to the federal act he says he would have supported. Both contained identical clauses saying that nothing in the bills could be construed to affect legal rights of an unborn fetus, according to an undisputed summary written immediately after the committee’s 2003 mark-up session."
FactCheck.org : Obama and ‘Infanticide’

4. If a child is 'accidentally' born alive as a result of a botched abortion attempt, Senator Obama had no problem allowing that newborn to die, sans any medical attention.





Pay special attention to the vid @ :50

2:01

2:40

3:55

5:28

 

[TSJohnson]

Get back into your sewer.

It doesn't need defense. It's true whether you like it or not. This is why you're going to accept that, or you're going to stop trying to force your bulllshit ideas on every other woman on the planet. You're going to stop shaming them and and lying about them and generally being an ignorant **** just because they made a choice you don't like, or you're going to sit down and shut up and stop taking up space that could be better occupied by decent people with legitimate things to say. So which is it? You have the right to choose - the same one you're trying to deny others. Now use it. Which is it going to be?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Ah, the abortion is infanticide or murder argument.

Legally it is just not so.

I don't think anyone would argue that point. But we do know that legality changes with public opinion, as was the case with slavery and banning abortions.

Legislating morality is never a good idea.

Legislating immorality is even worse.

Such as?

 

[PoliticalChic]

A fetus is not a child. It would be called a child if it were. They're two different fucking things. Grow up, learn science, and stop trying to control women's bodies. The only body you have any right to is your own. You don't get to decide whether or not to force anyone to become or remain pregnant. You have no say in whether or when someone spawns. The only rights you have are to your own fucking self. Do you understand this? Do you understand that this is why nothing you said is even valid? They're not even real fucking opinions. You know they're wrong. You know why they're wrong. Now grow the fuck up and stop pretending to believe shit you have no right to believe.

You can call them Martians or Daisies if you like, that's the crux of the matter. One side calls them babies, the other calls them anything but. That's how you can allow their murders without conscience.

Calling pro-choicers murderers needs to end US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum It's not fucking murder. It's medicine. I will not allow you to use this slanderous word again.

Time and again, when folks realize they have been skewered, their language falls to the vulgar. It's one of those hard to hide psychological tells....your anger at being exposed leaks out as vulgarity.

....you know very well it is exactly that: murder.

 

[chikenwing]

If you declare the fetus to be a person by law, then you HAVE to make abortion the crime of murder.

Otherwise, you will have by law sanctioned infanticide.

We already suffer this double standard,you can be convicted of killing an unborn child,or child neglect.
A women on her way to get an abortion is struck by a car negligently,the child dies the state can and has prosecuted the offender,yet if no accident,the child would have been killed ,and nobody would have blinked once.

Yes a huge double standard default to life it is the best choice every time.

 

[chikenwing]

A fetus is not a child. It would be called a child if it were. They're two different fucking things. Grow up, learn science, and stop trying to control women's bodies. The only body you have any right to is your own. You don't get to decide whether or not to force anyone to become or remain pregnant. You have no say in whether or when someone spawns. The only rights you have are to your own fucking self. Do you understand this? Do you understand that this is why nothing you said is even valid? They're not even real fucking opinions. You know they're wrong. You know why they're wrong. Now grow the fuck up and stop pretending to believe shit you have no right to believe.

You can call them Martians or Daisies if you like, that's the crux of the matter. One side calls them babies, the other calls them anything but. That's how you can allow their murders without conscience.

I call BS on that bogus allegation. Woman who undergo abortions understand the consequences of their decisions and it is utterly fallacious to call it "murder". Yes, it is the termination of a potential life but that is not the same thing as killing a

Ah, the abortion is infanticide or murder argument.

Legally it is just not so.

I don't think anyone would argue that point. But we do know that legality changes with public opinion, as was the case with slavery and banning abortions.

Legislating morality is never a good idea.

Legislating immorality is even worse.

Such as?

Its not a golden retriever in there.

 

[TSJohnson]

"You did not once during the 2008 campaign ask why Barack Obama voted in favor of legalizing infanticide,"Gingrich said. "If we're going to debate about who is the extremist on this issues, it is President Obama, who, as a state senator, voted to protect doctors who killed babies."
Newt Gingrich Calls Obama An 'Extremist' Who Supported 'Infanticide' At GOP Debate

This is why Newt Gingrich is an asshole.

2. n·fan·ti·cide/inˈfantiˌsīd/
Noun:
The practice in some societies of killing unwanted children soon after birth.

Soon after birth.

3. "Gingrich was presumably referencing Obama’s opposition to Illinois’ proposed version of a “born alive” law,intended to require doctors to administer immediate medical care to any infant that survived an intended abortion....FactCheck.org found holes in Obama’s explanations as to why he did not support the “born alive” legislation..."
FACT CHECK: Gingrich Claim on Obama Infanticide Vote A Stretch - Naureen Khan - NationalJournal.com

Is Gingrich a qualified medical practitioner? No? Then he can take a seat and listen to people who are. And the medical community is overwhelmingly pro-choice (like the rest of the population in general).

a. "Obama voted in committee against the 2003 state bill that was nearly identical to the federal act he says he would have supported. Both contained identical clauses saying that nothing in the bills could be construed to affect legal rights of an unborn fetus, according to an undisputed summary written immediately after the committee’s 2003 mark-up session."
FactCheck.org : Obama and ‘Infanticide’

And? Bills are huge. You can't expect a politician to know everything in each one.

4. If a child is 'accidentally' born alive as a result of a botched abortion attempt, Senator Obama had no problem allowing that newborn to die, sans any medical attention.

What's your point? It's not wanted. The doctor simply made a mistake. It technically becomes infanticide at that point, but it's still the woman's choice.