Calling pro-choicers murderers needs to end

[TSJohnson]

I've been thinking about this post ever since watching Emma Watson address the UN. She was right. You can't engage with anti-feminists' broken ideas. Many are too stubborn even to allow this, and simply shut you down with asinine slogans or religious rhetoric without even bothering to change their beliefs. The only way you can educate them is to tell them to just stop being willfully ignorant. They know what they're doing. They know why they're wrong. They're just too childish to stop unless you specifically call them out on it. Just fucking stop it. Grow the fuck up and stop believing stupid fucking things like "feminists bash men" or "feminists are sexist" and accept that feminism and women's rights are here to stay whether you like it or not.

I realized that the same can be said of anti-choicers, who are generally part of the same crowd. They know they're in the wrong. They know exactly how stupid and dictatorial they sound to demand that a woman become a mother. They know how evil it is to forbid her to abort her pregnancy even if she's raped or it's going to kill her. They know they're basically just tightening the chains of patriarchy around the neck of every woman in this country for their own fucking beliefs. They're imposing their beliefs. That's all it's about. And when you try to argue with them about it they try to make it about the fetus rather than the actual human being breaking down in tears in front of them because they told her they want to make her carry and raise her rapist's fetus. They call her a murderer for ending the pregnancy inflicted on her.

You just can't argue with that level of stubborn ignorance either. You can't ignore it. You can't treat it as an okay belief. You can't just believe that most of the population support murder and think you can get away with that - that it's a-okay. The only way to educate them is the same as the way Emma Watson discovered to educate anti-feminists: call out their invalid opinions for what they are. Remind them that their fake beliefs simply aren't tolerated in twenty first century, educated, secular humanist Western society. They have no control over any woman or her body. They can't use or control her. They have no right to even hold another opinion.

 

[Roadrunner]

Fuck you, and anyone else who tells us what is tolerated and what is not tolerated.

I won't tolerate your intolerance.

I bet you suffer from baby-killing guilt, or you would not have made this post.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I've been thinking about this post ever since watching Emma Watson address the UN. She was right. You can't engage with anti-feminists' broken ideas. Many are too stubborn even to allow this, and simply shut you down with asinine slogans or religious rhetoric without even bothering to change their beliefs. The only way you can educate them is to tell them to just stop being willfully ignorant. They know what they're doing. They know why they're wrong. They're just too childish to stop unless you specifically call them out on it. Just fucking stop it. Grow the fuck up and stop believing stupid fucking things like "feminists bash men" or "feminists are sexist" and accept that feminism and women's rights are here to stay whether you like it or not.

I realized that the same can be said of anti-choicers, who are generally part of the same crowd. They know they're in the wrong. They know exactly how stupid and dictatorial they sound to demand that a woman become a mother. They know how evil it is to forbid her to abort her pregnancy even if she's raped or it's going to kill her. They know they're basically just tightening the chains of patriarchy around the neck of every woman in this country for their own fucking beliefs. They're imposing their beliefs. That's all it's about. And when you try to argue with them about it they try to make it about the fetus rather than the actual human being breaking down in tears in front of them because they told her they want to make her carry and raise her rapist's fetus. They call her a murderer for ending the pregnancy inflicted on her.

You just can't argue with that level of stubborn ignorance either. You can't ignore it. You can't treat it as an okay belief. You can't just believe that most of the population support murder and think you can get away with that - that it's a-okay. The only way to educate them is the same as the way Emma Watson discovered to educate anti-feminists: call out their invalid opinions for what they are. Remind them that their fake beliefs simply aren't tolerated in twenty first century, educated, secular humanist Western society. They have no control over any woman or her body. They can't use or control her. They have no right to even hold another opinion.

Those who fear equality and independence in women are working hard to change the definition of "feminism" and end women's right to control their own bodies.

That won't change.

Nor will they suddenly care about children any more than they actually care about fetuses.

 

[TSJohnson]

Fuck you, and anyone else who tells us what is tolerated and what is not tolerated.

I won't tolerate your intolerance.

I bet you suffer from baby-killing guilt, or you would not have made this post.

Actually, yes. I do. The very idea of a tolerant society is based around deciding what is and isn't tolerable. You cannot have one otherwise. It will just break down into anarchy without rules stating what you can and can't do to people. You can't enslave people. You can't kill them. Depriving someone else of their rights will not be tolerated. It doesn't matter what arguments you have for it. It's just not a valid option. You can't say you have the right to enslave black people just because you think you have total freedom to opinion. You can't think women are less valuable than men and think you have a right to hold that belief. Both are essentially what you're doing here: you argue for enslaving women and making them less than men, forcing them to breed against their will, and call them vicious names like murderer if they don't bend to your will. You know what? Fuck you. Your bullshit beliefs are no better nor different than a jihadist terrorist thinking it's okay to actually murder real people. And they need to end. Right now. Stop equating abortion to killing an actual child. Stop telling women what they can and can't do. Grow the fuck up and believe in women's rights like a decent, normal fucking human being.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most of them simply use the 'abortion is murder' rhetoric to enflame.

Most of them really don't believe women should be executed, or go to prison for life, for having had an abortion.

 

[Roadrunner]

Most of them simply use the 'abortion is murder' rhetoric to enflame.

Most of them really don't believe women should be executed, or go to prison for life, for having had an abortion.

Living with themselves and the nocturnal wailings of their unborn children is punishment enough.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most of them simply use the 'abortion is murder' rhetoric to enflame.

Most of them really don't believe women should be executed, or go to prison for life, for having had an abortion.

Living with themselves and the nocturnal wailings of their unborn children is punishment enough.

Then would you apply that to all murders?

 

[TSJohnson]

Most of them simply use the 'abortion is murder' rhetoric to enflame.

Most of them really don't believe women should be executed, or go to prison for life, for having had an abortion.

Living with themselves and the nocturnal wailings of their unborn children is punishment enough.

Then would you apply that to all murders?

It's not murder. I just explained why. It's a safe, normal medical procedure she has the right to choose if she decides she doesn't want to be a mother after all.

 

[aplcr0331]

I'm all for your absolute rule and reign over your body. You can evacuate everything you want...it's your choice.

It's still murder.

Again, have it...abort all the clumps of cells you would like I (and frankly many Americans) don't want to take that right from you. Abortion is and will always be legal.

But, it's still murder. You can do all the mental gymastics you want to assuage your guilt. It's murder.

Again in case you are really slow, I support your right to abort as many kids as you see fit. You don't get to call it something else though.

And two more things;

1. The right kinds of people are having abortions.
2. The abortion rate is falling...a lot.

 

[HenryBHough]

OK, make abortion "not murder".

Once that's in place I want the age limits extended so liberals become fair game for late, late, late term abortion.

Maybe to age 30.

For a start......

 

[Mac1958]

.

To pretend that a fetus - DNA-specific, beating heart, moving limbs, functioning brain - is not innocent human life is absurd, cynical denial in the extreme. Therefore, if you don't want to call the slaughter of innocent human life murder, okay. Call it knitting, for all I care.

And guess what? I'm pro choice. Why? Because I think a society needs to make some terrible choices, including this and including the taking of innocent human life in wars, that make the most sense for that society. Personally, I'd like to see both ends of this debate pool their considerable energy, passion and resources into dealing with the REAL problem, which is DEMAND. Safe and rare.

So I'm pro-choice. But at least I'm honest about it.

.

 

[Vigilante]

From the same people that don't want you to call Islamic terrorist killers, Islamic!

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law which recognizes a child in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb".

The EXCEPTION is the fucked up SCOTUS Roe verdict, in all other accounts, it's MURDER!... The 9 IN BLACK, are the evil incarnate when it comes to morals, ethics, and principles!

 

[Nosmo King]

I've been thinking about this post ever since watching Emma Watson address the UN. She was right. You can't engage with anti-feminists' broken ideas. Many are too stubborn even to allow this, and simply shut you down with asinine slogans or religious rhetoric without even bothering to change their beliefs. The only way you can educate them is to tell them to just stop being willfully ignorant. They know what they're doing. They know why they're wrong. They're just too childish to stop unless you specifically call them out on it. Just fucking stop it. Grow the fuck up and stop believing stupid fucking things like "feminists bash men" or "feminists are sexist" and accept that feminism and women's rights are here to stay whether you like it or not.

I realized that the same can be said of anti-choicers, who are generally part of the same crowd. They know they're in the wrong. They know exactly how stupid and dictatorial they sound to demand that a woman become a mother. They know how evil it is to forbid her to abort her pregnancy even if she's raped or it's going to kill her. They know they're basically just tightening the chains of patriarchy around the neck of every woman in this country for their own fucking beliefs. They're imposing their beliefs. That's all it's about. And when you try to argue with them about it they try to make it about the fetus rather than the actual human being breaking down in tears in front of them because they told her they want to make her carry and raise her rapist's fetus. They call her a murderer for ending the pregnancy inflicted on her.

You just can't argue with that level of stubborn ignorance either. You can't ignore it. You can't treat it as an okay belief. You can't just believe that most of the population support murder and think you can get away with that - that it's a-okay. The only way to educate them is the same as the way Emma Watson discovered to educate anti-feminists: call out their invalid opinions for what they are. Remind them that their fake beliefs simply aren't tolerated in twenty first century, educated, secular humanist Western society. They have no control over any woman or her body. They can't use or control her. They have no right to even hold another opinion.

Those who fear equality and independence in women are working hard to change the definition of "feminism" and end women's right to control their own bodies.

That won't change.

Nor will they suddenly care about children any more than they actually care about fetuses.

Real freedom for women means economic freedom and economic freedom means birth control.

If groups want to disengage in the debate by calling their opponents murderers, then that group should have no voice in the debate. Because it's clear that that group also opposes economic freedom for women.

 

[gipper]

I've been thinking about this post ever since watching Emma Watson address the UN. She was right. You can't engage with anti-feminists' broken ideas. Many are too stubborn even to allow this, and simply shut you down with asinine slogans or religious rhetoric without even bothering to change their beliefs. The only way you can educate them is to tell them to just stop being willfully ignorant. They know what they're doing. They know why they're wrong. They're just too childish to stop unless you specifically call them out on it. Just fucking stop it. Grow the fuck up and stop believing stupid fucking things like "feminists bash men" or "feminists are sexist" and accept that feminism and women's rights are here to stay whether you like it or not.

I realized that the same can be said of anti-choicers, who are generally part of the same crowd. They know they're in the wrong. They know exactly how stupid and dictatorial they sound to demand that a woman become a mother. They know how evil it is to forbid her to abort her pregnancy even if she's raped or it's going to kill her. They know they're basically just tightening the chains of patriarchy around the neck of every woman in this country for their own fucking beliefs. They're imposing their beliefs. That's all it's about. And when you try to argue with them about it they try to make it about the fetus rather than the actual human being breaking down in tears in front of them because they told her they want to make her carry and raise her rapist's fetus. They call her a murderer for ending the pregnancy inflicted on her.

You just can't argue with that level of stubborn ignorance either. You can't ignore it. You can't treat it as an okay belief. You can't just believe that most of the population support murder and think you can get away with that - that it's a-okay. The only way to educate them is the same as the way Emma Watson discovered to educate anti-feminists: call out their invalid opinions for what they are. Remind them that their fake beliefs simply aren't tolerated in twenty first century, educated, secular humanist Western society. They have no control over any woman or her body. They can't use or control her. They have no right to even hold another opinion.

Defending the rights of the unborn is now intolerant.

Opposing intolerance is now considered intolerant...by some.

 

[Roadrunner]

I've been thinking about this post ever since watching Emma Watson address the UN. She was right. You can't engage with anti-feminists' broken ideas. Many are too stubborn even to allow this, and simply shut you down with asinine slogans or religious rhetoric without even bothering to change their beliefs. The only way you can educate them is to tell them to just stop being willfully ignorant. They know what they're doing. They know why they're wrong. They're just too childish to stop unless you specifically call them out on it. Just fucking stop it. Grow the fuck up and stop believing stupid fucking things like "feminists bash men" or "feminists are sexist" and accept that feminism and women's rights are here to stay whether you like it or not.

I realized that the same can be said of anti-choicers, who are generally part of the same crowd. They know they're in the wrong. They know exactly how stupid and dictatorial they sound to demand that a woman become a mother. They know how evil it is to forbid her to abort her pregnancy even if she's raped or it's going to kill her. They know they're basically just tightening the chains of patriarchy around the neck of every woman in this country for their own fucking beliefs. They're imposing their beliefs. That's all it's about. And when you try to argue with them about it they try to make it about the fetus rather than the actual human being breaking down in tears in front of them because they told her they want to make her carry and raise her rapist's fetus. They call her a murderer for ending the pregnancy inflicted on her.

You just can't argue with that level of stubborn ignorance either. You can't ignore it. You can't treat it as an okay belief. You can't just believe that most of the population support murder and think you can get away with that - that it's a-okay. The only way to educate them is the same as the way Emma Watson discovered to educate anti-feminists: call out their invalid opinions for what they are. Remind them that their fake beliefs simply aren't tolerated in twenty first century, educated, secular humanist Western society. They have no control over any woman or her body. They can't use or control her. They have no right to even hold another opinion.

Those who fear equality and independence in women are working hard to change the definition of "feminism" and end women's right to control their own bodies.

That won't change.

Nor will they suddenly care about children any more than they actually care about fetuses.

Real freedom for women means economic freedom and economic freedom means birth control.

If groups want to disengage in the debate by calling their opponents murderers, then that group should have no voice in the debate. Because it's clear that that group also opposes economic freedom for women.

There are multiple non-lethal methods of birth control.

Too many people are too lazy and impulsive to use them, hence the high rate of abortion.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most of them simply use the 'abortion is murder' rhetoric to enflame.

Most of them really don't believe women should be executed, or go to prison for life, for having had an abortion.

Living with themselves and the nocturnal wailings of their unborn children is punishment enough.

Then would you apply that to all murders?

It's not murder. I just explained why. It's a safe, normal medical procedure she has the right to choose if she decides she doesn't want to be a mother after all.

I know your opinion.

I want to hear the people who call it murder affirm that they want to treat it like murder.

They won't, at least most them, thus proving their rhetoric is nothing more than inflammatory bullshit.

IN FACT, it is more reprehensible to believe that life begins at conception and NOT treat abortion as murder than it is to believe in choice.

 

[Circle_Breaker]

If a guy shoots a pregnant lady in the stomach is he charged with two murders or one?

 

[Nosmo King]

I've been thinking about this post ever since watching Emma Watson address the UN. She was right. You can't engage with anti-feminists' broken ideas. Many are too stubborn even to allow this, and simply shut you down with asinine slogans or religious rhetoric without even bothering to change their beliefs. The only way you can educate them is to tell them to just stop being willfully ignorant. They know what they're doing. They know why they're wrong. They're just too childish to stop unless you specifically call them out on it. Just fucking stop it. Grow the fuck up and stop believing stupid fucking things like "feminists bash men" or "feminists are sexist" and accept that feminism and women's rights are here to stay whether you like it or not.

I realized that the same can be said of anti-choicers, who are generally part of the same crowd. They know they're in the wrong. They know exactly how stupid and dictatorial they sound to demand that a woman become a mother. They know how evil it is to forbid her to abort her pregnancy even if she's raped or it's going to kill her. They know they're basically just tightening the chains of patriarchy around the neck of every woman in this country for their own fucking beliefs. They're imposing their beliefs. That's all it's about. And when you try to argue with them about it they try to make it about the fetus rather than the actual human being breaking down in tears in front of them because they told her they want to make her carry and raise her rapist's fetus. They call her a murderer for ending the pregnancy inflicted on her.

You just can't argue with that level of stubborn ignorance either. You can't ignore it. You can't treat it as an okay belief. You can't just believe that most of the population support murder and think you can get away with that - that it's a-okay. The only way to educate them is the same as the way Emma Watson discovered to educate anti-feminists: call out their invalid opinions for what they are. Remind them that their fake beliefs simply aren't tolerated in twenty first century, educated, secular humanist Western society. They have no control over any woman or her body. They can't use or control her. They have no right to even hold another opinion.

Those who fear equality and independence in women are working hard to change the definition of "feminism" and end women's right to control their own bodies.

That won't change.

Nor will they suddenly care about children any more than they actually care about fetuses.

Real freedom for women means economic freedom and economic freedom means birth control.

If groups want to disengage in the debate by calling their opponents murderers, then that group should have no voice in the debate. Because it's clear that that group also opposes economic freedom for women.

There are multiple non-lethal methods of birth control.

Too many people are too lazy and impulsive to use them, hence the high rate of abortion.

Lazy? Impulsive? Perhaps. But, to be fair, not all forms of birth control are totally effective or unattainable by some. Others don't intend to get pregnant, but it happens.

Others find themselves being called a 'slut' on national radio when all they ever wanted was safe, effective birth control.

But isn't it ironic that the same political faction calling government too intrusive in private lives has no problem with the government intruding into personal health and economic concerns?

 

[emilynghiem]

I've been thinking about this post ever since watching Emma Watson address the UN. She was right. You can't engage with anti-feminists' broken ideas. Many are too stubborn even to allow this, and simply shut you down with asinine slogans or religious rhetoric without even bothering to change their beliefs. The only way you can educate them is to tell them to just stop being willfully ignorant. They know what they're doing. They know why they're wrong. They're just too childish to stop unless you specifically call them out on it. Just fucking stop it. Grow the fuck up and stop believing stupid fucking things like "feminists bash men" or "feminists are sexist" and accept that feminism and women's rights are here to stay whether you like it or not.

I realized that the same can be said of anti-choicers, who are generally part of the same crowd. They know they're in the wrong. They know exactly how stupid and dictatorial they sound to demand that a woman become a mother. They know how evil it is to forbid her to abort her pregnancy even if she's raped or it's going to kill her. They know they're basically just tightening the chains of patriarchy around the neck of every woman in this country for their own fucking beliefs. They're imposing their beliefs. That's all it's about. And when you try to argue with them about it they try to make it about the fetus rather than the actual human being breaking down in tears in front of them because they told her they want to make her carry and raise her rapist's fetus. They call her a murderer for ending the pregnancy inflicted on her.

You just can't argue with that level of stubborn ignorance either. You can't ignore it. You can't treat it as an okay belief. You can't just believe that most of the population support murder and think you can get away with that - that it's a-okay. The only way to educate them is the same as the way Emma Watson discovered to educate anti-feminists: call out their invalid opinions for what they are. Remind them that their fake beliefs simply aren't tolerated in twenty first century, educated, secular humanist Western society. They have no control over any woman or her body. They can't use or control her. They have no right to even hold another opinion.

Dear TSJohnson
The only way I've gotten people who TRULY BELIEVE that abortion is not a choice
to BACK OFF from this idea of mandating that by law
is to AGREE they have the right to their beliefs, but by the Constitution that defends their beliefs,
these must be proven and not based on faith, or it's unlawful to impose that by law through govt.

It cannot be proven that the soul or "will of that person" enters the body at birth.
It could happen BEFORE birth, AFTER birth, etc.
Some women claim they PREVENTED the soul of the child from entering the body
so when they terminated the body it was a miscarriage but didn't kill the soul that never entered.

This is all spiritual, cannot be proven to someone except by faith,
so the law has no business dictating what someone has to believe or do by their spiritual process
UNLESS WE ALL AGREE.

We AGREE that murder is wrong. So we AGREE to have laws against that.

I also point out that if society doesn't go after the MEN who made half the decision
to have sex that led to the pregnancy, then the law targets WOMEN unfairly.
Laws regulating abortion "after the fact" are ALWAYS going to be discriminatory
because they affect WOMEN more than MEN who are either equally responsible
if not MORE responsible for the pregnancy in cases of rape, coercion or other relationship abuse or fraud.

So that's not where to regulate the problem.

The place to focus where partners can be equal is before conception.
So that is before the law and govt can step in and intervene.

Prevention must be through education and free choice
because at the level men and women are equally responsible,
that is a personal and/or spiritual level and cannot be regulated by govt.

Conservatives understand this if you explain in terms of the Constitution,
but only if you ACKNOWLEDGE they have full right to their beliefs
not to be abridged, denied or discriminated against either! Then you
can equally argue that prochoice beliefs are equally protected by the same laws.

You cannot make this argument with the same integrity
if you are too busy imposing or denying the opposition beliefs.
How DO you expect them to respect yours if you don't follow the same law.

Guiliani and Hutchison were two Republicans I can name who
explained prochoice defenses to fellow conservatives using Constitutional
language and respect for limited govt and not empowering govt to intrude into personal beliefs and matters.

When it is explained properly, using their own beliefs, yes,
even the most adamant prolife advocates will respect those beliefs insofar as you respect theirs.
But they are not going to put your beliefs above their own and let the law favor yours over them.
It must be equal to be in the spirit of Constitutional law and equal protection of interests
without discrimination on the basis of creed, ie putting personal belief or party agenda of one over the other by law.

If you come at it with the approach of equal inclusion you can establish equal respect.

If you come at it already rejecting and denying the religiously held beliefs
of someone they cannot even change, of course you are going to incite equal and opposite rejection.

They cannot help being prolife any more than you or I can help being prochoice.

These are our inherent personal, spiritual or political beliefs
and we have equal right to exercise and defend them.

So we need to start crafting laws to protect our beliefs equally
and quit this business of bullying over the next person by creed or religion.

That is unconstitutional, and we've been doing it for years
because that's how it's always been done. Always bullied by
larger force or numbers to outshout the other person, exclude and coerce them.

And then we wonder why we have this 'rape' and 'bullying' culture going on.
Because that's what we teach by example. But it's not Constitutional to
abuse govt to bully and exclude by religious or political beliefs.

When we change how we approach each other, we don't change our views
or the other person's beliefs per se, but we change how we work together
and focus on solutions and laws that don't put one over the other but
include, protect, represent and respect them EQUALLY. That is what it
means to govern by consent of the governed and enforce equal justice and protections by law.

We need to live up to our own standards.
If we are prochoice we need to respect the choices of others and not force ours by law.
If we are prolife and have sacred beliefs we need to respect the beliefs of others and not force ours by law.

We can be respected equally, and it starts by respecting each other as equal
people with equal beliefs, especially where we do not agree and cannot help or change our views.
Neither can the other side help or change what they believe. We need to respect that, and ask them to reciprocate.

That is the only approach I have ever found that worked.
And I credit the prolife movement for proving that prochoice can still wipe out abortion.
All the members in their entire movement have done everything they can to prevent abortion,
and it's all by choice. They did not have the law to tell them it was illegal. They didn't need it.
They CHOOSE every day to do what they know is right to prevent abortion.
So it can be wiped out by free choice, just like they do without it being illegal.
They are proof it can work. So we should be THANKING them that they
are taking responsibility for having a free choice. We should be working together
to prevent anything that leads to abortion, in order to earn and deserve that free choice
by working as hard as the prolife advocates on prevention on all levels.
We should be allies not enemies, and we can get more done with the same resources
instead of wasting them fighting each other, by investing directly into solutions we agree on.

Thank you!

 

[emilynghiem]

Some states and laws will charge him with two counts of killing but they may word it differently
where it doesn't conflict with willful termination.