The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Sixties Fan]

the people, who they are, their heritage ...

But that is EXACTLY the point. It is not their heritage. Their identity is a completely different heritage. They are usurping someone else's heritage deliberately.

Who's heritage are Palestinians usurping? They DO have ties to THAT land - they do have their own heritage that goes back a long time - maybe not as distinctive as the Jewish heritage, but none the less they have those ties.

If you mean usurping Jewish religious sites - then I agree that is wrong. But they have a heritage in that place that is not merely descendents of "Arab invaders and migrants".

They are Usurping the JEWISH heritage.

Remember them? The Jewish People, with their Jewish Nation, with a Nation called Israel which had history for 3500 years on that land, with Egypt, the Philistines, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans and the British?

The Jewish People, the one and ONLY Jewish People.

So what do you tell other religions - who also have a long established history involving those sites as part of their religion? One religion building on another is not exactly new. What I have a problem with in terms of Muslims is when they want to claim it for Islam only, which they can't, but they are a sacred trust for 3 religions now.

When Christianity took over, the Christians would not allow the Jews to enter Jerusalem (since the Romans forbade it in 135 CE).

When Islam came to be and they came to the area, the second wave of Muslims allowed the Jews to enter Jerusalem.

Nowadays, Islam is intent in delegitimizing any connection that the Jewish people have to Jerusalem, to any of their holy sites, to any and all of Israel.

And some Christians are of the same mind as the Muslims, as they are helping them in this attempt to totally appropriate all of Israel, their holy sites, their culture, their history - from the Jews.

What are we supposed to tell those Christians and Muslims who are hell bent into destroying any memory of a people who basically defines the holy land, and always have?

 

[Coyote]

''.l

You have been told the history of today's Palestinian people.
You have been told where they came from and how long ago.

They DO NOT come from the region called Palestine in the 5th Century BCE.

And there is no way of changing that.

I do not negate their history, I and others, have told you what their history is, and always have been, and always will be.
There is no way of changing it.

Some clans have been there since the 7th century and others are as recent as coming before 1948.

That is their history. It cannot, and it will not be changed.

Neither I, Israel, not anyone else has forced them to leave.
It has been the Jewish people who were forced to leave their homes from 1920 to 1948, and then again in 2005.
And they want Israel to get out of more land, and then more land.......until they achieve what Mohammad, their Muslim master designed as the way to beat the enemy.

"Khaybar, remember Khaybar" they yell at the Jews.

What do you think they want? To live in peace with the Jews?
Many do, those who live in Israel or those who have been in touch with Jews, and know that they are not the evil monkeys the Quran describes.

I cannot change Where they came from and When they came to the region called Palestine, with their Shieks, and Caliphs and controlled the area until the Crusaders came.

But if do continue to understand you, you seem to think that because a region was name Palestine (because of the Philistines) and that word used by a few at some points in time, that all who lived there were actually known as Palestinians, and were called Palestinians and dealt with the Greeks, the Romans, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, etc as Palestinians .

Is that what history tells us? That all of those conquerors of ancient Canaan referred to the people on the land as Palestinians ?

How were they refer to them? How did they refer to the Nation they encounter there?

You keep saying "you've been told" "you've been told""you've been told""you've been told" as if your narrative is the only truth while completely ignoring anything counter to it. So get off your high horse please.

What you "seem to think" I think is completely off. You are stuck on SEMANTICS, that is all it is for you. You ignore genetics, you ignore what historians have said (and which I posted) you ignore everything except "they weren't known as Palestinians".

Your entire argument is based on "well no one CALLED them Palestinians".

You completely ignore my questions asking about YOUR views, talking instead about what Israel does.

So again - your own arguments seem to imply you do not feel that the Palestinians have any right of place in that area. Is that how you feel?

Let me give two references from the 1st century CE.

The New Testament

Complete Works of Josephus


Find one mention of Palestinians in either one.

Again. You are going entirely by the existence of a word. This is pointless.

And you are dodging (again) my question.

Your own arguments seem to imply you do not feel that the Palestinians have any right of place in that area. Is that how you feel?

I will answer again.

No, I do not think that the Palestinians DO NOT have the right to have their own place, State, country, etc.

The question remains, what are they waiting for?

So many offers, so many NOs.

What do they want?

That is not what I asked. Do Palestinians have any right of place in that area. That would be the area they have lived for generations if not thousands of years. Not some Jordan. Not Egypt. Not Syria.

So do they have that right?

 

[Coyote]

the people, who they are, their heritage ...

But that is EXACTLY the point. It is not their heritage. Their identity is a completely different heritage. They are usurping someone else's heritage deliberately.

Who's heritage are Palestinians usurping? They DO have ties to THAT land - they do have their own heritage that goes back a long time - maybe not as distinctive as the Jewish heritage, but none the less they have those ties.

If you mean usurping Jewish religious sites - then I agree that is wrong. But they have a heritage in that place that is not merely descendents of "Arab invaders and migrants".

They are Usurping the JEWISH heritage.

Remember them? The Jewish People, with their Jewish Nation, with a Nation called Israel which had history for 3500 years on that land, with Egypt, the Philistines, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans and the British?

The Jewish People, the one and ONLY Jewish People.

So what do you tell other religions - who also have a long established history involving those sites as part of their religion? One religion building on another is not exactly new. What I have a problem with in terms of Muslims is when they want to claim it for Islam only, which they can't, but they are a sacred trust for 3 religions now.

When Christianity took over, the Christians would not allow the Jews to enter Jerusalem (since the Romans forbade it in 135 CE).

When Islam came to be and they came to the area, the second wave of Muslims allowed the Jews to enter Jerusalem.

Nowadays, Islam is intent in delegitimizing any connection that the Jewish people have to Jerusalem, to any of their holy sites, to any and all of Israel.

And some Christians are of the same mind as the Muslims, as they are helping them in this attempt to totally appropriate all of Israel, their holy sites, their culture, their history - from the Jews.

What are we supposed to tell those Christians and Muslims who are hell bent into destroying any memory of a people who basically defines the holy land, and always have?

It is a shared sacred trust and should remain that way. No one has the right to destroy it, defile it or remove any one's heritage from it. It no longer belongs to just one group does it?

 

[Sixties Fan]

I will answer again.

No, I do not think that the Palestinians DO NOT have the right to have their own place, State, country, etc.

The question remains, what are they waiting for?

So many offers, so many NOs.

What do they want?

That is not what I asked. Do Palestinians have any right of place in that area. That would be the area they have lived for generations if not thousands of years. Not some Jordan. Not Egypt. Not Syria.

Cut it down to 1700 years and not "thousands of years" and you will have the right people who call themselves Palestinians

Again (and again) that doesn't jive with genetic evidence.

There is nothing I can do if you read genetic studies designed to dupe people against the Jews.

There isn't only one genetic study like that, there are several, and not one of them has the guts to come up with who those people tested were, where to find them so that they will have another test done through a Jewish agency.

WTF? That sounds way off the wall. The one's I read at least, are scientific studies - they aren't done by anti-semitic groups. Nor are they designed to turn people against Jews though I am sure there are those who can take such info and misuse it for their own agendas. Frankly - why would a Jewish agency be more trustworthy than a non-Jewish one? Perhaps we had better demand and Arab one too just to be fair?

This is the article I cited (from an Israeli newspaper): Blood brothers: Palestinians and Jews share genetic roots

Several major studies published in the past five years attest to these ancient hereditary links. At the forefront of these efforts are two researchers: Harry Ostrer, professor of pediatrics and pathology at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx, New York, and Karl Skorecki, director of medical and research development at the Rambam Health Care Campus in Haifa. Back in June 2010, and within two days of each other, the two scientists and their research teams published extensive analyses of the genetic origins of the Jewish people and their Near East ancestry.​

Sorry, but there is no truth in this "brother" thing between Palestinians and Jews.

Since Islam was created the Muslims have been telling themselves and the world that they are "cousins" to the Jews via Ishmael.

Strange that it took them 2400 years to come up with that blood connection to the Jewish People.

It does not matter that any Jews may have done this research, there is no validity to it.

Some Jews were forced to convert to Islam, and that is where some blood connection may be found, but the majority of Jews is definitely not blood connected to the Arab Palestinians.

 

[Sixties Fan]

''.l

You keep saying "you've been told" "you've been told""you've been told""you've been told" as if your narrative is the only truth while completely ignoring anything counter to it. So get off your high horse please.

What you "seem to think" I think is completely off. You are stuck on SEMANTICS, that is all it is for you. You ignore genetics, you ignore what historians have said (and which I posted) you ignore everything except "they weren't known as Palestinians".

Your entire argument is based on "well no one CALLED them Palestinians".

You completely ignore my questions asking about YOUR views, talking instead about what Israel does.

So again - your own arguments seem to imply you do not feel that the Palestinians have any right of place in that area. Is that how you feel?

Let me give two references from the 1st century CE.

The New Testament

Complete Works of Josephus


Find one mention of Palestinians in either one.

Again. You are going entirely by the existence of a word. This is pointless.

And you are dodging (again) my question.

Your own arguments seem to imply you do not feel that the Palestinians have any right of place in that area. Is that how you feel?

I will answer again.

No, I do not think that the Palestinians DO NOT have the right to have their own place, State, country, etc.

The question remains, what are they waiting for?

So many offers, so many NOs.

What do they want?

That is not what I asked. Do Palestinians have any right of place in that area. That would be the area they have lived for generations if not thousands of years. Not some Jordan. Not Egypt. Not Syria.

So do they have that right?

I will let you reread what I wrote. Read it carefully and do not imagine what you wish to read from it.

 

[Sixties Fan]

But that is EXACTLY the point. It is not their heritage. Their identity is a completely different heritage. They are usurping someone else's heritage deliberately.

Who's heritage are Palestinians usurping? They DO have ties to THAT land - they do have their own heritage that goes back a long time - maybe not as distinctive as the Jewish heritage, but none the less they have those ties.

If you mean usurping Jewish religious sites - then I agree that is wrong. But they have a heritage in that place that is not merely descendents of "Arab invaders and migrants".

They are Usurping the JEWISH heritage.

Remember them? The Jewish People, with their Jewish Nation, with a Nation called Israel which had history for 3500 years on that land, with Egypt, the Philistines, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans and the British?

The Jewish People, the one and ONLY Jewish People.

So what do you tell other religions - who also have a long established history involving those sites as part of their religion? One religion building on another is not exactly new. What I have a problem with in terms of Muslims is when they want to claim it for Islam only, which they can't, but they are a sacred trust for 3 religions now.

When Christianity took over, the Christians would not allow the Jews to enter Jerusalem (since the Romans forbade it in 135 CE).

When Islam came to be and they came to the area, the second wave of Muslims allowed the Jews to enter Jerusalem.

Nowadays, Islam is intent in delegitimizing any connection that the Jewish people have to Jerusalem, to any of their holy sites, to any and all of Israel.

And some Christians are of the same mind as the Muslims, as they are helping them in this attempt to totally appropriate all of Israel, their holy sites, their culture, their history - from the Jews.

What are we supposed to tell those Christians and Muslims who are hell bent into destroying any memory of a people who basically defines the holy land, and always have?

It is a shared sacred trust and should remain that way. No one has the right to destroy it, defile it or remove any one's heritage from it. It no longer belongs to just one group does it?

The Palestinians do not seem to be on the same wavelength as you.

The Muslims refuse to allow Jews to enter the Temple Mount.
They play soccer and have picnics on the Temple Mount.
They verbally attack the Jews who do enter.
Jews need police protection to visit their part of the Temple Mount.

It is a shared sacred trust now, but for centuries Jews were not allowed to go to it, and sometimes only allowed to to to the Western Wall.

Now, even the Western Wall the Palestinians are saying that it is a Muslim only sacred area and want UNICEF to declare it so.

 

[Coyote]

Who's heritage are Palestinians usurping? They DO have ties to THAT land - they do have their own heritage that goes back a long time - maybe not as distinctive as the Jewish heritage, but none the less they have those ties.

If you mean usurping Jewish religious sites - then I agree that is wrong. But they have a heritage in that place that is not merely descendents of "Arab invaders and migrants".

They are Usurping the JEWISH heritage.

Remember them? The Jewish People, with their Jewish Nation, with a Nation called Israel which had history for 3500 years on that land, with Egypt, the Philistines, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans and the British?

The Jewish People, the one and ONLY Jewish People.

So what do you tell other religions - who also have a long established history involving those sites as part of their religion? One religion building on another is not exactly new. What I have a problem with in terms of Muslims is when they want to claim it for Islam only, which they can't, but they are a sacred trust for 3 religions now.

When Christianity took over, the Christians would not allow the Jews to enter Jerusalem (since the Romans forbade it in 135 CE).

When Islam came to be and they came to the area, the second wave of Muslims allowed the Jews to enter Jerusalem.

Nowadays, Islam is intent in delegitimizing any connection that the Jewish people have to Jerusalem, to any of their holy sites, to any and all of Israel.

And some Christians are of the same mind as the Muslims, as they are helping them in this attempt to totally appropriate all of Israel, their holy sites, their culture, their history - from the Jews.

What are we supposed to tell those Christians and Muslims who are hell bent into destroying any memory of a people who basically defines the holy land, and always have?

It is a shared sacred trust and should remain that way. No one has the right to destroy it, defile it or remove any one's heritage from it. It no longer belongs to just one group does it?

The Palestinians do not seem to be on the same wavelength as you.

The Muslims refuse to allow Jews to enter the Temple Mount.
They play soccer and have picnics on the Temple Mount.
They verbally attack the Jews who do enter.
Jews need police protection to visit their part of the Temple Mount.

It is a shared sacred trust now, but for centuries Jews were not allowed to go to it, and sometimes only allowed to to to the Western Wall.

Now, even the Western Wall the Palestinians are saying that it is a Muslim only sacred area and want UNICEF to declare it so.

My personal opinion is that all 3 religions should have equal rights to those sites, as long as people behave peacefully. Unpeaceful people should be removed from the site.

My personal opinon is that it is part of a shared sacred trust, and we can not change the past, we can only try to make the future better.

 

[Sixties Fan]

They are Usurping the JEWISH heritage.

Remember them? The Jewish People, with their Jewish Nation, with a Nation called Israel which had history for 3500 years on that land, with Egypt, the Philistines, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans and the British?

The Jewish People, the one and ONLY Jewish People.

So what do you tell other religions - who also have a long established history involving those sites as part of their religion? One religion building on another is not exactly new. What I have a problem with in terms of Muslims is when they want to claim it for Islam only, which they can't, but they are a sacred trust for 3 religions now.

When Christianity took over, the Christians would not allow the Jews to enter Jerusalem (since the Romans forbade it in 135 CE).

When Islam came to be and they came to the area, the second wave of Muslims allowed the Jews to enter Jerusalem.

Nowadays, Islam is intent in delegitimizing any connection that the Jewish people have to Jerusalem, to any of their holy sites, to any and all of Israel.

And some Christians are of the same mind as the Muslims, as they are helping them in this attempt to totally appropriate all of Israel, their holy sites, their culture, their history - from the Jews.

What are we supposed to tell those Christians and Muslims who are hell bent into destroying any memory of a people who basically defines the holy land, and always have?

It is a shared sacred trust and should remain that way. No one has the right to destroy it, defile it or remove any one's heritage from it. It no longer belongs to just one group does it?

The Palestinians do not seem to be on the same wavelength as you.

The Muslims refuse to allow Jews to enter the Temple Mount.
They play soccer and have picnics on the Temple Mount.
They verbally attack the Jews who do enter.
Jews need police protection to visit their part of the Temple Mount.

It is a shared sacred trust now, but for centuries Jews were not allowed to go to it, and sometimes only allowed to to to the Western Wall.

Now, even the Western Wall the Palestinians are saying that it is a Muslim only sacred area and want UNICEF to declare it so.

My personal opinion is that all 3 religions should have equal rights to those sites, as long as people behave peacefully. Unpeaceful people should be removed from the site.

My personal opinon is that it is part of a shared sacred trust, and we can not change the past, we can only try to make the future better.

Your personal opinion about the rights of all three religions is worthless based on what Islam and Christianity have been doing to keep the Jews out of any and all of their Holy Sites and ancient cities.

Jews have a 3800 year history in Hebron but it UNESCO named it a Palestinian (Muslim) World Heritage site.
Where is the spirit of sharing amongst the Palestinians?


Unesco makes Hebron old city Palestinian world heritage site

 

[Coyote]

''.l

Let me give two references from the 1st century CE.

The New Testament

Complete Works of Josephus


Find one mention of Palestinians in either one.

Again. You are going entirely by the existence of a word. This is pointless.

And you are dodging (again) my question.

Your own arguments seem to imply you do not feel that the Palestinians have any right of place in that area. Is that how you feel?

I will answer again.

No, I do not think that the Palestinians DO NOT have the right to have their own place, State, country, etc.

The question remains, what are they waiting for?

So many offers, so many NOs.

What do they want?

That is not what I asked. Do Palestinians have any right of place in that area. That would be the area they have lived for generations if not thousands of years. Not some Jordan. Not Egypt. Not Syria.

So do they have that right?

I will let you reread what I wrote. Read it carefully and do not imagine what you wish to read from it.

I framed my question carefully. You, likewise carefully framed your answers. Otherwise a simple "yes" or "now" would have provided the answer.

You state that they have a right to their own state. The question is - where? The land of their heritage where they had made their homes...? Or someplace else?

 

[Coyote]

So what do you tell other religions - who also have a long established history involving those sites as part of their religion? One religion building on another is not exactly new. What I have a problem with in terms of Muslims is when they want to claim it for Islam only, which they can't, but they are a sacred trust for 3 religions now.

When Christianity took over, the Christians would not allow the Jews to enter Jerusalem (since the Romans forbade it in 135 CE).

When Islam came to be and they came to the area, the second wave of Muslims allowed the Jews to enter Jerusalem.

Nowadays, Islam is intent in delegitimizing any connection that the Jewish people have to Jerusalem, to any of their holy sites, to any and all of Israel.

And some Christians are of the same mind as the Muslims, as they are helping them in this attempt to totally appropriate all of Israel, their holy sites, their culture, their history - from the Jews.

What are we supposed to tell those Christians and Muslims who are hell bent into destroying any memory of a people who basically defines the holy land, and always have?

It is a shared sacred trust and should remain that way. No one has the right to destroy it, defile it or remove any one's heritage from it. It no longer belongs to just one group does it?

The Palestinians do not seem to be on the same wavelength as you.

The Muslims refuse to allow Jews to enter the Temple Mount.
They play soccer and have picnics on the Temple Mount.
They verbally attack the Jews who do enter.
Jews need police protection to visit their part of the Temple Mount.

It is a shared sacred trust now, but for centuries Jews were not allowed to go to it, and sometimes only allowed to to to the Western Wall.

Now, even the Western Wall the Palestinians are saying that it is a Muslim only sacred area and want UNICEF to declare it so.

My personal opinion is that all 3 religions should have equal rights to those sites, as long as people behave peacefully. Unpeaceful people should be removed from the site.

My personal opinon is that it is part of a shared sacred trust, and we can not change the past, we can only try to make the future better.

Your personal opinion about the rights of all three religions is worthless based on what Islam and Christianity have been doing to keep the Jews out of any and all of their Holy Sites and ancient cities.

Jews have a 3800 year history in Hebron but it UNESCO named it a Palestinian (Muslim) World Heritage site.
Where is the spirit of sharing amongst the Palestinians?


Unesco makes Hebron old city Palestinian world heritage site

All of our opinions are worthless but this is a discussion not a summit and I speak for MYSELF only, not all the Palestinians, not all the Jews, not anyone but me. This all about opinions, yours included.

So what do you propose to do about it? What would be a solution?

 

[Sixties Fan]

''.l
Again. You are going entirely by the existence of a word. This is pointless.

And you are dodging (again) my question.

Your own arguments seem to imply you do not feel that the Palestinians have any right of place in that area. Is that how you feel?

I will answer again.

No, I do not think that the Palestinians DO NOT have the right to have their own place, State, country, etc.

The question remains, what are they waiting for?

So many offers, so many NOs.

What do they want?

That is not what I asked. Do Palestinians have any right of place in that area. That would be the area they have lived for generations if not thousands of years. Not some Jordan. Not Egypt. Not Syria.

So do they have that right?

I will let you reread what I wrote. Read it carefully and do not imagine what you wish to read from it.

I framed my question carefully. You, likewise carefully framed your answers. Otherwise a simple "yes" or "now" would have provided the answer.

You state that they have a right to their own state. The question is - where? The land of their heritage where they had made their homes...? Or someplace else?

They have a State, all ready to go in Gaza.
And they have Areas A and B in Judea and Samaria.

Anything needs to be negotiated directly with Israel.

 

[Shusha]

Why is it so important to deny the fact that their heritage - even if they weren't a distinct "people" PRECEDED the Muslim conquests?

Because their heritage did NOT precede the Arab/Muslim conquests. Their identity (heritage) is a DIRECT result of the Arab/Muslim conquests. They identify as Arab. The only reason they are seeking some other heritage is to destroy the Jewish claim. Its not arising from them trying to regain their ancient language, religion, culture, etc or to prevent its loss.

 

[Sixties Fan]

When Christianity took over, the Christians would not allow the Jews to enter Jerusalem (since the Romans forbade it in 135 CE).

When Islam came to be and they came to the area, the second wave of Muslims allowed the Jews to enter Jerusalem.

Nowadays, Islam is intent in delegitimizing any connection that the Jewish people have to Jerusalem, to any of their holy sites, to any and all of Israel.

And some Christians are of the same mind as the Muslims, as they are helping them in this attempt to totally appropriate all of Israel, their holy sites, their culture, their history - from the Jews.

What are we supposed to tell those Christians and Muslims who are hell bent into destroying any memory of a people who basically defines the holy land, and always have?

It is a shared sacred trust and should remain that way. No one has the right to destroy it, defile it or remove any one's heritage from it. It no longer belongs to just one group does it?

The Palestinians do not seem to be on the same wavelength as you.

The Muslims refuse to allow Jews to enter the Temple Mount.
They play soccer and have picnics on the Temple Mount.
They verbally attack the Jews who do enter.
Jews need police protection to visit their part of the Temple Mount.

It is a shared sacred trust now, but for centuries Jews were not allowed to go to it, and sometimes only allowed to to to the Western Wall.

Now, even the Western Wall the Palestinians are saying that it is a Muslim only sacred area and want UNICEF to declare it so.

My personal opinion is that all 3 religions should have equal rights to those sites, as long as people behave peacefully. Unpeaceful people should be removed from the site.

My personal opinon is that it is part of a shared sacred trust, and we can not change the past, we can only try to make the future better.

Your personal opinion about the rights of all three religions is worthless based on what Islam and Christianity have been doing to keep the Jews out of any and all of their Holy Sites and ancient cities.

Jews have a 3800 year history in Hebron but it UNESCO named it a Palestinian (Muslim) World Heritage site.
Where is the spirit of sharing amongst the Palestinians?


Unesco makes Hebron old city Palestinian world heritage site

All of our opinions are worthless but this is a discussion not a summit and I speak for MYSELF only, not all the Palestinians, not all the Jews, not anyone but me. This all about opinions, yours included.

So what do you propose to do about it? What would be a solution?

A discussion is not about opinions only.

I am not giving my opinions as to who the Palestinians are, how long they have lived in the area, etc, etc.
I am quoting facts.

As the saying goes " You have the right to your opinions but not the right to your facts"

I do not propose to "do" anything about it. I am not involved in the negotiations, or attempts to negotiate between the two parties.

Both parties need to come to the table and negotiate, as the Egyptians and Jordanians did.

Solution?

What would make Hamas and the PLO and Fatah do away with their charters, which then might be the start of the peace process between them and Israel?

What is the answer to that? When will they give up on their charters?

 

[Coyote]

Why is it so important to deny the fact that their heritage - even if they weren't a distinct "people" PRECEDED the Muslim conquests?

Because their heritage did NOT precede the Arab/Muslim conquests. Their identity (heritage) is a DIRECT result of the Arab/Muslim conquests. They identify as Arab. The only reason they are seeking some other heritage is to destroy the Jewish claim. Its not arising from them trying to regain their ancient language, religion, culture, etc or to prevent its loss.

They existed prior to the Arab Muslim conquests - they descend from the people that were conquered.

 

[Shusha]

There is room for both with denying either their narratives and historic connections to place.

No one on TI is denying Arab Palestinians long connection to the place by reason of their long residence there.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Why is it so important to deny the fact that their heritage - even if they weren't a distinct "people" PRECEDED the Muslim conquests?

Because their heritage did NOT precede the Arab/Muslim conquests. Their identity (heritage) is a DIRECT result of the Arab/Muslim conquests. They identify as Arab. The only reason they are seeking some other heritage is to destroy the Jewish claim. Its not arising from them trying to regain their ancient language, religion, culture, etc or to prevent its loss.

They existed prior to the Arab Muslim conquests - they descend from the people that were conquered.

Palestinians are Arab Muslims and Christians.
They will tell anyone that themselves.

They did not live in the area pre Muslim Arab invasion.

Anymore than the Arabs lived in any part of North Africa before the Arab Muslims went and conquered that part in the 7th Century CE.

Or the centuries they spent in Southern Spain.

 

[Coyote]

It is a shared sacred trust and should remain that way. No one has the right to destroy it, defile it or remove any one's heritage from it. It no longer belongs to just one group does it?

The Palestinians do not seem to be on the same wavelength as you.

The Muslims refuse to allow Jews to enter the Temple Mount.
They play soccer and have picnics on the Temple Mount.
They verbally attack the Jews who do enter.
Jews need police protection to visit their part of the Temple Mount.

It is a shared sacred trust now, but for centuries Jews were not allowed to go to it, and sometimes only allowed to to to the Western Wall.

Now, even the Western Wall the Palestinians are saying that it is a Muslim only sacred area and want UNICEF to declare it so.

My personal opinion is that all 3 religions should have equal rights to those sites, as long as people behave peacefully. Unpeaceful people should be removed from the site.

My personal opinon is that it is part of a shared sacred trust, and we can not change the past, we can only try to make the future better.

Your personal opinion about the rights of all three religions is worthless based on what Islam and Christianity have been doing to keep the Jews out of any and all of their Holy Sites and ancient cities.

Jews have a 3800 year history in Hebron but it UNESCO named it a Palestinian (Muslim) World Heritage site.
Where is the spirit of sharing amongst the Palestinians?


Unesco makes Hebron old city Palestinian world heritage site

All of our opinions are worthless but this is a discussion not a summit and I speak for MYSELF only, not all the Palestinians, not all the Jews, not anyone but me. This all about opinions, yours included.

So what do you propose to do about it? What would be a solution?

A discussion is not about opinions only.

I am not giving my opinions as to who the Palestinians are, how long they have lived in the area, etc, etc.
I am quoting facts.

As the saying goes " You have the right to your opinions but not the right to your facts"

I do not propose to "do" anything about it. I am not involved in the negotiations, or attempts to negotiate between the two parties.

Both parties need to come to the table and negotiate, as the Egyptians and Jordanians did.

Solution?

What would make Hamas and the PLO and Fatah do away with their charters, which then might be the start of the peace process between them and Israel?

What is the answer to that? When will they give up on their charters?

When I quote my opinion, I state it as that because you seem to be busy telling me what I am thinking. When I am stating fact, I am clear about it and I include sources as I did with genetics.

 

[Coyote]

There is room for both with denying either their narratives and historic connections to place.

No one on TI is denying Arab Palestinians long connection to the place by reason of their long residence there.

They are denying that their ancestors included people who existed there prior to the Islamic conquest.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Palestinians do not seem to be on the same wavelength as you.

The Muslims refuse to allow Jews to enter the Temple Mount.
They play soccer and have picnics on the Temple Mount.
They verbally attack the Jews who do enter.
Jews need police protection to visit their part of the Temple Mount.

It is a shared sacred trust now, but for centuries Jews were not allowed to go to it, and sometimes only allowed to to to the Western Wall.

Now, even the Western Wall the Palestinians are saying that it is a Muslim only sacred area and want UNICEF to declare it so.

My personal opinion is that all 3 religions should have equal rights to those sites, as long as people behave peacefully. Unpeaceful people should be removed from the site.

My personal opinon is that it is part of a shared sacred trust, and we can not change the past, we can only try to make the future better.

Your personal opinion about the rights of all three religions is worthless based on what Islam and Christianity have been doing to keep the Jews out of any and all of their Holy Sites and ancient cities.

Jews have a 3800 year history in Hebron but it UNESCO named it a Palestinian (Muslim) World Heritage site.
Where is the spirit of sharing amongst the Palestinians?


Unesco makes Hebron old city Palestinian world heritage site

All of our opinions are worthless but this is a discussion not a summit and I speak for MYSELF only, not all the Palestinians, not all the Jews, not anyone but me. This all about opinions, yours included.

So what do you propose to do about it? What would be a solution?

A discussion is not about opinions only.

I am not giving my opinions as to who the Palestinians are, how long they have lived in the area, etc, etc.
I am quoting facts.

As the saying goes " You have the right to your opinions but not the right to your facts"

I do not propose to "do" anything about it. I am not involved in the negotiations, or attempts to negotiate between the two parties.

Both parties need to come to the table and negotiate, as the Egyptians and Jordanians did.

Solution?

What would make Hamas and the PLO and Fatah do away with their charters, which then might be the start of the peace process between them and Israel?

What is the answer to that? When will they give up on their charters?

When I quote my opinion, I state it as that because you seem to be busy telling me what I am thinking. When I am stating fact, I am clear about it and I include sources as I did with genetics.

Except that your facts come from sources which are mistaken.

I understand that you believe all of those sources, but many have been designed to tell people the opposite of what is true in order to delegitimize the Jewish People.

By saying that the Palestinians are descendants of the ancient people of Canaan, they are actually delegitimizing the Jewish people as the ones who are the legitimate indigenous people fo the region.

 

[Shusha]

Arab does not just refer to people of the Arabian peninsula, it refers to many of the people conquered and Arabitized as well.

Exactly. The indigenous peoples are those whose identity is PRIOR TO and OUTSIDE the conquest. That's the point.