The New Witch Hunt-From Salem 1692 to the Hysteria Over Gay Rights and Marriage Today

[Avatar4321]

If you don't see the difference between burning perceived evil at the stake and a fight against being forced to redefine marriage then you're out of your mind.

Witches weren't trying to force their values on people. Heck, they didn't even really exist there.

There is a huge difference between criminal punishment for behavior and retaining civil traditions and values. The two aren't even comparable

It would appear that you didn’t read my post very carefully, or understand it very well. The point is that the same mind set, the same dynamics are involved when a minority is demonized and vilified, whether or not it involves actual violence against them. I call it the continuum of intolerance. They are not distinct or mutually exclusive issues. And by the way, acts of violence have been committed against LGBT people in this country and even more so in other parts of the world.

Secondly, if you want to say that marriage has been redefined you are perfectly welcome to do so. I prefer to say that it was simply broadened to include another group. It really doesn’t matter. These are just words. The fact is that anyone who still believes that marriage is between a man and a woman is free to continue to do so and act accordingly. Everyone defines the meaning of marriage for themselves. Those who are so bothered by it being more inclusive need to take a good hard look at their own relationships to try to understand why they are so threatened by why other people do.

You’re right to say that Witches- who were indeed real in the minds of the colonist- were not “forcing their values on anyone", but neither are gays. Anyone who is so weak minded as to let someone else influence what they think and believe has serious problems.

In addition, the behavior and tactics that I have documented go beyond voicing opposition to same sex marriage. If they had a legitimate argument against it, they would be able to oppose it in a civil manner. Instead, they resort to lies and distortions, intended to drive gay people back into the shadows.

Lastly, you mentioned “a huge difference between criminal punishment for behavior and retaining civil traditions and values.” Let me remind you that these same right wing nuts that I have highlighted here do in fact bemoan the decriminalization of homosexuality. Again, the rhetoric goes way beyond opposition to marriage equality. And as far as values go, logical fallacies in the form of an appeal to tradition do not work-either philosophically or legally.

In other words, "I can't refute you so you're stupid."

Much easier to just say that instead of creating straw men to pretend you are saying more. Saves us all time.

 

[LittleNipper]

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

First, you might want to brush up on the history of marriage:

Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman


Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum (Egypt)
One of the most common arguments against marriage equality is the claim, "Marriage has always been between a man and a woman."

We also hear time and again about the "sanctity of marriage," and that marriage was designed by God, and is therefore a religious institution.

These notions are simply not true. Anyone with a basic knowledge of human history would know these claims don't float.

Let's have a quick look at some examples from history which shed some light on how marriage has been defined, and re-defined, over time: def shepherd: Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

Secondly, you might want to try to explain why same sex marriage is narcissistic and more than heterosexual marriage is....Or do you think that anyone who wishes to marry for romance and sexual attraction is narcissistic? If that is true, I feel very sorry for you.

Lastly, what the hell does any of this have to do with the point of the OP? Answer: Nothing. Off topic bovine excrement.[/QUOTE]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leviticus New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
Chapter 18:1-29

Laws Concerning Sexual Behavior. 1 The Lord said to Moses: 2 Speak to the Israelites and tell them: I, the Lord, am your God. 3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived, nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs. 4 My decrees you shall carry out, and my statutes you shall take care to follow. I, the Lord, am your God. 5 Keep, then, my statutes and decrees, for the person who carries them out will find life through them. I am the Lord.

6 None of you shall approach a close relative to have sexual intercourse. I am the Lord. 7 You shall not disgrace your father by having intercourse with your mother. She is your own mother; you shall not have intercourse with her. 8 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s wife, for that would be a disgrace to your father. 9 You shall not have intercourse with your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in your own household or born elsewhere. 10 You shall not have intercourse with your son’s daughter or with your daughter’s daughter, for that would be a disgrace to you. 11 You shall not have intercourse with the daughter whom your father’s wife bore to him in his household, since she, too, is your sister. 12 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s sister, since she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not have intercourse with your mother’s sister, since she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not disgrace your father’s brother by having sexual relations with his wife, since she, too, is your aunt. 15 You shall not have intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife; you shall not have intercourse with her. 16 You shall not have intercourse with your brother’s wife; that would be a disgrace to your brother. 17 You shall not have intercourse with a woman and also with her daughter, nor shall you marry and have intercourse with her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are related to her. This would be shameful. 18 While your wife is still living you shall not marry her sister as her rival and have intercourse with her.

19 You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 You shall not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer any of your offspring for immolation to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. 23 You shall not have sexual relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; that is perverse.

24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, because by them the nations whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. 25 And so the land has become defiled, and I have punished it for its wickedness, and the land has vomited out its inhabitants. 26 You, however, must keep my statutes and decrees, avoiding all these abominations, both the natives and the aliens resident among you— 27 because the previous inhabitants did all these abominations and the land became defiled; 28 otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just as it vomited out the nations before you. 29 For whoever does any of these abominations shall be cut off from the people. 30 Heed my charge, then, not to observe the abominable customs that have been observed before your time, and thus become impure by them. I, the Lord, am your God.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Note: This is not intended to disparage Christian’s or all religious people who hold different values that myself. It is, however, intended to shine a light on those who would use their religion as a weapon to marginalize and disenfranchise others.

Ask anyone what they think happened in Salem Mass. In 1692 and they are likely to say something to the effect that some unsophisticated settlers, given to religious fervor and superstition during a harsh winter and desolate conditions, became obsessed with evil and targeted those who they saw as a threat. Ask those same people if such a thing could happen today, and they are likely to say “of course not!”

However, I submit to you that it is in fact happening again, only this time gays-not witches are the target. Consider:

In Salem witches were viewed as being possessed by evil that must be exorcised. The religious right of today see gays has being sick and in need of a cure.

The members of the Bay Colony saw witches as a threat to their Christian beliefs and even a threat to the continued existence of Christianity. Today, the religious right speaks passionately about their religious freedom being violated by gay rights and the criminalization of Christianity.

The settlers were driven by ignorance and fear of the unknown, and the need for a scapegoat to blame their problems on witches-which included a small pox outbreak and the perception of religious persecution. Today, we can see these same forces at work among the virulently religious right who have blamed gays for everything from natural disasters, and disease to the risen of liberal secularism.

Yes, the colonists were beset by real and present dangers- Native American’s , pirates, economic difficulties and political tensions with England which added to the stress which in turn contributed to the hysteria and the need to blame someone. We see the same dynamic playing out today with the fear of Islam and ISIS, uncertainty about the economy and the fact that there are people in power who do not reflect their values.

The settlers were so threatened by those who they deemed witches that they imprisoned and murdered them. Today, most on the right do not advocate imprisonment, burning at the stake, or drowning. However, there are those who do lament the decriminalization of homosexuality and some who have in fact advocated the imprisonment and execution of gays.

As in 1692, there is an identifiable triggering condition now. Then, it was a difficult winter living in isolation. Now, it is the rapid rise of the acceptance of gay people, and the speed at which they have gained legal rights culminating in marriage equality

If anyone wishes to question the voracity of this analogy, I invite you to first review a brief history of the Salem witch trials:

The Salem Witch Trials: Facts & History The Salem Witch Trials: Facts & History


The Salem Witch Trials was a classic example of scapegoating. Fear combined with a “trigger,” a traumatic or stressful event, is what often leads to scapegoating. Fear of the Devil, and witches who did his bidding, was very real in Salem at the time.

During this time period, people feared that the Devil was constantly trying to find ways to infiltrate and destroy Christians and their communities.

The puritans, who had left England due to religious persecution, feared they were under attack again and were losing control of their colony. A feeling of uneasiness and discontent surrounded them.

Other factors included a recent small pox epidemic in the colony, growing rivalries between families within the colony, a constant threat of attack from nearby Native-American tribes, and a recent influx of refugees trying to escape King William’s war with France in Canada and upstate New York.

“It was the darkest and most desponding period in the civil history of New England. The people, whose ruling passion then was, as it has ever since been, a love for constitutional rights, had, a few years before, been thrown into dismay by the loss of their charter, and, from that time, kept in a feverish state of anxiety respecting their political destinies. In addition to all this, the whole sea-coast was exposed to danger: ruthless pirates were continually prowling the shores. Commerce was nearly extinguished, and great losses had been experienced by men in business. A recent expedition against Canada had exposed the colonies to the vengeance of France.”

Now, let’s have a closer look at what is happening today. Enter Mike Huckabee:

Boycott Rainbow Doritos! But Chick-Fil-A Boycott Was 'Economic Terrorism' –

Huckabee, however, seems to have changed his tune on culture-war boycotts. Time reports that Huckabee has “called on Christians to boycott all snacks made by” Frito Lay after it released limited edition Rainbow Doritos to benefit the anti-bullying It Gets Better Project. –

The GOP presidential candidate’s anti-Frito Lay campaign reportedly came at the behest of David Lane, a Republican organizer who has linked gays to everything from car bombs to America’s looming destruction and who bizarrely suggests that the creation of Rainbow Doritos could destroy America and curtail religious freedom. - See more at: Mike Huckabee: Boycott Rainbow Doritos! But Chick-Fil-A Boycott Was 'Economic Terrorism'

Clearly, he is demonizing and scapegoating gays. Here is more from a supporter of another presidential contender who apparently has no problem with her extreme and bizarre views

Ted Cruz Welcomes The Endorsement Of Anti-Gay Hate Group Official And Radio Host Sandy Rios –

In her capacity as a radio host for the AFA, Rios has repeatedly attacked gays, Muslims and Jews while promoting conspiracy theories and issuing repeated warnings that God's judgment will soon fall upon this nation: - Here are just some of her rantings

• Sandy Rios: Gay Rainbows Increase Terrorism Threat for America.

• Sandy Rios Predicts Major Worldwide Disaster In Divine Punishment For Gay Marriage.
  
  
  
• Religious Right Activists: God Will Punish America For Gay Marriage.
  
  
  
• Anti-Gay Pundit: Homosexuality 'A Factor' In Amtrak Crash.
  
  
  
• Sandy Rios: 'You Must Prepare For Martyrdom' If Gay Marriage Becomes Legal.
  
  
  
• Sandy Rios: Children are 'Sexually Abused' by 'Homosexual Advocacy' in Schools. - See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ted-cruz-welcomes-endorsement-anti-gay-hate-group-official-and-radio-host-sandy-rios#sthash.JcToAH70.dpuf

Now let’s talk about the World Congress of Families which met recently in Salt Lake City….

Peter Sprigg delivered the morning keynote; Rev. Bill Owens of the National Organization for Marriage-affiliated Coalition of African American Pastors delivered the afternoon keynote.

Sprigg, who is also scheduled to speak at WCF on Wednesday, set the tone for the day by challenging the “gay identity paradigm” and urging social conservatives to avoid as much as possible using the words “gay” and “lesbian” because he said they refer to someone’s innate identity. Sprigg urged activists to separate sexual attraction, sexual behavior, and a person’s self-identification and instead to focus on gay relationships, which he called “objectively harmful to the people who engage in it and to society at large.”

Also arguing for an uncompromising stance and “zero affirmation of the gay rights paradigm” was Americans For Truth About Homosexuality’s Peter LaBarbera, who urged anti-gay activists to stop playing defense and go on the offense, reclaiming the moral high ground by always opposing homosexual behavior. One way to go on offense, he said, would be by proposing state bans on hormone therapy and surgery for transgender youth. Other notable anti-gay activists who addressed the gathering included Liberty Counsel’s Mat Staver (via video) and Brian Camenker of MassResistance.

More Salem style vilification and scapegoating. And the myths born of ignorance and fear, and the lies that speak to the deep seated animosity towards gays continues. Numbers 3, 4, 6, and 9 are especially egregious and represent the type of rhetoric that can lead to physical violence:

Myths and stereotypes that go unchallenged become stronger weapons for those who seek to oppress others in society. As the U.S.A. continues to evolve, and as gay men become increasingly more open about their true identities, we must take advantage of all opportunities to educate others about what is correct, and what isn't, in relation to male homosexuality.

Here are 10 of the most problematic myths and stereotypes which play a role in the mischaracterization and dehumanization of gay men in the U.S.

http://mic.com/articles/50621/10-biggest-lies-you-were-told-about-gay-men

And then there is the endless drum beat of fear mongering about how gay rights is antithetical to Christianity and that it will destroy the freedom of religion, and religion itself:

Ted Cruz and the politics of faith and fear: How the GOP mastered the art of exploiting scared Christians http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/ted-cruz-and-the-politics-of-faith-and-fear-how-the-gop-mastered-the-art-of-exploiting-scared-christians/

Cruz quoted from the oral argument in Obergefell v. Hodges to warn people of faith what will follow an adverse ruling on marriage:

“Justice [Samuel] Alito asked U.S. Solicitor-General Donald Verrilli: ‘If the Obama administration prevails and you convince this court to strike down the marriage laws of every state, would the next step be that the IRS would start going after Christian schools, Christian charities, and next after that Christian churches? Any institutions that follow a biblical teaching of marriage? Or for that matter, Jewish schools? Mormon schools? Any institution that follows religious teaching?’

The American Family Association is one of the most divisive and virulent organizations that is exploiting Christianity in there anti-gay crusade:

The American Family Association Publishes Interactive 'Bigotry Map' Featuring LGBT Organizations

A prominent fundamentalist organization is making headlines after creating an "anti-Christian bigotry map" which includes lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) advocacy groups.

The American Family Association's interactive map, which can be found here, breaks down groups into four categories: anti-Christian, humanist, atheist and those with a "homosexual agenda." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/25/american-family-association-bigotry-map-_n_6754528.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

This is an extremely disconcerting development and represents a new low for those working against equality. As a last resort, the anti-equality forces have claimed victimhood and are, in fact blaming the victims. It is born of fear, prejudice and an increasing sense of desperation, and is attempting to hijack Christianity to stem the tide of progress in the area of human rights and evolving standards of decency. They purport to speak for the entire Christian faith, but in reality, represent a small, paranoid and reactionary fringe.

It is also disturbing to realize the depth of the divisiveness that has developed between these progressive rights organizations and a certain segment of the Christian community, a divisiveness that really does not need to be. The claims that the advance of gay rights and secularism an affront to Christians and impinges on religious freedom is without merit. While there are those that actually believe that is the case, others are knowingly promoting a false idea of religious liberty for their own purposes.

And let’s not forget the American evangelical, including some politicians who have traveled to Africa and Russia to promote those countries antigay agendas, which have included proposals to jail and even execute gays. Even right here in the U. S., in California to be exact, a ballot initiative to allow for the summary execution of gays was proposed.

It all comes down to this…..there are some of us who are not better, not smarter, and no more rational than the inhabitants of the Bay Colony, and if they were to achieve the control of government , Salem could indeed happen again.

No leader in human history - take your pick - Mao, MLK, Stalin, Jesus, Buddha, Ceaser, Moses, etc etc has ever even hinted that marriage should be opened to homosexuals. What we have is a narcissistic generation that thinks it's smarter than every leader in human history.

First, you might want to brush up on the history of marriage:

Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman


Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum (Egypt)
One of the most common arguments against marriage equality is the claim, "Marriage has always been between a man and a woman."

We also hear time and again about the "sanctity of marriage," and that marriage was designed by God, and is therefore a religious institution.

These notions are simply not true. Anyone with a basic knowledge of human history would know these claims don't float.

Let's have a quick look at some examples from history which shed some light on how marriage has been defined, and re-defined, over time: def shepherd: Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman

Secondly, you might want to try to explain why same sex marriage is narcissistic and more than heterosexual marriage is....Or do you think that anyone who wishes to marry for romance and sexual attraction is narcissistic? If that is true, I feel very sorry for you.

Lastly, what the hell does any of this have to do with the point of the OP? Answer: Nothing. Off topic bovine excrement.

If you can't acknowledge that it is generally better for children to be raised with a father and mother, you are either intellectually dishonest or ignorant.
Every leader in human history knew this, but only today's narcissistic generation thinks it knows better than anyone in all human history.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Note: This is not intended to disparage Christian’s or all religious people who hold different values that myself. It is, however, intended to shine a light on those who would use their religion as a weapon to marginalize and disenfranchise others.

Ask anyone what they think happened in Salem Mass. In 1692 and they are likely to say something to the effect that some unsophisticated settlers, given to religious fervor and superstition during a harsh winter and desolate conditions, became obsessed with evil and targeted those who they saw as a threat. Ask those same people if such a thing could happen today, and they are likely to say “of course not!”

However, I submit to you that it is in fact happening again, only this time gays-not witches are the target. Consider:

In Salem witches were viewed as being possessed by evil that must be exorcised. The religious right of today see gays has being sick and in need of a cure.

The members of the Bay Colony saw witches as a threat to their Christian beliefs and even a threat to the continued existence of Christianity. Today, the religious right speaks passionately about their religious freedom being violated by gay rights and the criminalization of Christianity.

The settlers were driven by ignorance and fear of the unknown, and the need for a scapegoat to blame their problems on witches-which included a small pox outbreak and the perception of religious persecution. Today, we can see these same forces at work among the virulently religious right who have blamed gays for everything from natural disasters, and disease to the risen of liberal secularism.

Yes, the colonists were beset by real and present dangers- Native American’s , pirates, economic difficulties and political tensions with England which added to the stress which in turn contributed to the hysteria and the need to blame someone. We see the same dynamic playing out today with the fear of Islam and ISIS, uncertainty about the economy and the fact that there are people in power who do not reflect their values.

The settlers were so threatened by those who they deemed witches that they imprisoned and murdered them. Today, most on the right do not advocate imprisonment, burning at the stake, or drowning. However, there are those who do lament the decriminalization of homosexuality and some who have in fact advocated the imprisonment and execution of gays.

As in 1692, there is an identifiable triggering condition now. Then, it was a difficult winter living in isolation. Now, it is the rapid rise of the acceptance of gay people, and the speed at which they have gained legal rights culminating in marriage equality

If anyone wishes to question the voracity of this analogy, I invite you to first review a brief history of the Salem witch trials:

The Salem Witch Trials: Facts & History The Salem Witch Trials: Facts & History


The Salem Witch Trials was a classic example of scapegoating. Fear combined with a “trigger,” a traumatic or stressful event, is what often leads to scapegoating. Fear of the Devil, and witches who did his bidding, was very real in Salem at the time.

During this time period, people feared that the Devil was constantly trying to find ways to infiltrate and destroy Christians and their communities.

The puritans, who had left England due to religious persecution, feared they were under attack again and were losing control of their colony. A feeling of uneasiness and discontent surrounded them.

Other factors included a recent small pox epidemic in the colony, growing rivalries between families within the colony, a constant threat of attack from nearby Native-American tribes, and a recent influx of refugees trying to escape King William’s war with France in Canada and upstate New York.

“It was the darkest and most desponding period in the civil history of New England. The people, whose ruling passion then was, as it has ever since been, a love for constitutional rights, had, a few years before, been thrown into dismay by the loss of their charter, and, from that time, kept in a feverish state of anxiety respecting their political destinies. In addition to all this, the whole sea-coast was exposed to danger: ruthless pirates were continually prowling the shores. Commerce was nearly extinguished, and great losses had been experienced by men in business. A recent expedition against Canada had exposed the colonies to the vengeance of France.”

Now, let’s have a closer look at what is happening today. Enter Mike Huckabee:

Boycott Rainbow Doritos! But Chick-Fil-A Boycott Was 'Economic Terrorism' –

Huckabee, however, seems to have changed his tune on culture-war boycotts. Time reports that Huckabee has “called on Christians to boycott all snacks made by” Frito Lay after it released limited edition Rainbow Doritos to benefit the anti-bullying It Gets Better Project. –

The GOP presidential candidate’s anti-Frito Lay campaign reportedly came at the behest of David Lane, a Republican organizer who has linked gays to everything from car bombs to America’s looming destruction and who bizarrely suggests that the creation of Rainbow Doritos could destroy America and curtail religious freedom. - See more at: Mike Huckabee: Boycott Rainbow Doritos! But Chick-Fil-A Boycott Was 'Economic Terrorism'

Clearly, he is demonizing and scapegoating gays. Here is more from a supporter of another presidential contender who apparently has no problem with her extreme and bizarre views

Ted Cruz Welcomes The Endorsement Of Anti-Gay Hate Group Official And Radio Host Sandy Rios –

In her capacity as a radio host for the AFA, Rios has repeatedly attacked gays, Muslims and Jews while promoting conspiracy theories and issuing repeated warnings that God's judgment will soon fall upon this nation: - Here are just some of her rantings

• Sandy Rios: Gay Rainbows Increase Terrorism Threat for America.

• Sandy Rios Predicts Major Worldwide Disaster In Divine Punishment For Gay Marriage.
  
  
  
• Religious Right Activists: God Will Punish America For Gay Marriage.
  
  
  
• Anti-Gay Pundit: Homosexuality 'A Factor' In Amtrak Crash.
  
  
  
• Sandy Rios: 'You Must Prepare For Martyrdom' If Gay Marriage Becomes Legal.
  
  
  
• Sandy Rios: Children are 'Sexually Abused' by 'Homosexual Advocacy' in Schools. - See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ted-cruz-welcomes-endorsement-anti-gay-hate-group-official-and-radio-host-sandy-rios#sthash.JcToAH70.dpuf

Now let’s talk about the World Congress of Families which met recently in Salt Lake City….

Peter Sprigg delivered the morning keynote; Rev. Bill Owens of the National Organization for Marriage-affiliated Coalition of African American Pastors delivered the afternoon keynote.

Sprigg, who is also scheduled to speak at WCF on Wednesday, set the tone for the day by challenging the “gay identity paradigm” and urging social conservatives to avoid as much as possible using the words “gay” and “lesbian” because he said they refer to someone’s innate identity. Sprigg urged activists to separate sexual attraction, sexual behavior, and a person’s self-identification and instead to focus on gay relationships, which he called “objectively harmful to the people who engage in it and to society at large.”

Also arguing for an uncompromising stance and “zero affirmation of the gay rights paradigm” was Americans For Truth About Homosexuality’s Peter LaBarbera, who urged anti-gay activists to stop playing defense and go on the offense, reclaiming the moral high ground by always opposing homosexual behavior. One way to go on offense, he said, would be by proposing state bans on hormone therapy and surgery for transgender youth. Other notable anti-gay activists who addressed the gathering included Liberty Counsel’s Mat Staver (via video) and Brian Camenker of MassResistance.

More Salem style vilification and scapegoating. And the myths born of ignorance and fear, and the lies that speak to the deep seated animosity towards gays continues. Numbers 3, 4, 6, and 9 are especially egregious and represent the type of rhetoric that can lead to physical violence:

Myths and stereotypes that go unchallenged become stronger weapons for those who seek to oppress others in society. As the U.S.A. continues to evolve, and as gay men become increasingly more open about their true identities, we must take advantage of all opportunities to educate others about what is correct, and what isn't, in relation to male homosexuality.

Here are 10 of the most problematic myths and stereotypes which play a role in the mischaracterization and dehumanization of gay men in the U.S.

http://mic.com/articles/50621/10-biggest-lies-you-were-told-about-gay-men

And then there is the endless drum beat of fear mongering about how gay rights is antithetical to Christianity and that it will destroy the freedom of religion, and religion itself:

Ted Cruz and the politics of faith and fear: How the GOP mastered the art of exploiting scared Christians http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/ted-cruz-and-the-politics-of-faith-and-fear-how-the-gop-mastered-the-art-of-exploiting-scared-christians/

Cruz quoted from the oral argument in Obergefell v. Hodges to warn people of faith what will follow an adverse ruling on marriage:

“Justice [Samuel] Alito asked U.S. Solicitor-General Donald Verrilli: ‘If the Obama administration prevails and you convince this court to strike down the marriage laws of every state, would the next step be that the IRS would start going after Christian schools, Christian charities, and next after that Christian churches? Any institutions that follow a biblical teaching of marriage? Or for that matter, Jewish schools? Mormon schools? Any institution that follows religious teaching?’

The American Family Association is one of the most divisive and virulent organizations that is exploiting Christianity in there anti-gay crusade:

The American Family Association Publishes Interactive 'Bigotry Map' Featuring LGBT Organizations

A prominent fundamentalist organization is making headlines after creating an "anti-Christian bigotry map" which includes lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) advocacy groups.

The American Family Association's interactive map, which can be found here, breaks down groups into four categories: anti-Christian, humanist, atheist and those with a "homosexual agenda." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/25/american-family-association-bigotry-map-_n_6754528.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

This is an extremely disconcerting development and represents a new low for those working against equality. As a last resort, the anti-equality forces have claimed victimhood and are, in fact blaming the victims. It is born of fear, prejudice and an increasing sense of desperation, and is attempting to hijack Christianity to stem the tide of progress in the area of human rights and evolving standards of decency. They purport to speak for the entire Christian faith, but in reality, represent a small, paranoid and reactionary fringe.

It is also disturbing to realize the depth of the divisiveness that has developed between these progressive rights organizations and a certain segment of the Christian community, a divisiveness that really does not need to be. The claims that the advance of gay rights and secularism an affront to Christians and impinges on religious freedom is without merit. While there are those that actually believe that is the case, others are knowingly promoting a false idea of religious liberty for their own purposes.

And let’s not forget the American evangelical, including some politicians who have traveled to Africa and Russia to promote those countries antigay agendas, which have included proposals to jail and even execute gays. Even right here in the U. S., in California to be exact, a ballot initiative to allow for the summary execution of gays was proposed.

It all comes down to this…..there are some of us who are not better, not smarter, and no more rational than the inhabitants of the Bay Colony, and if they were to achieve the control of government , Salem could indeed happen again.

No leader in human history - take your pick - Mao, MLK, Stalin, Jesus, Buddha, Ceaser, Moses, etc etc has ever even hinted that marriage should be opened to homosexuals. What we have is a narcissistic generation that thinks it's smarter than every leader in human history.

First, you might want to brush up on the history of marriage:

Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman


Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum (Egypt)
One of the most common arguments against marriage equality is the claim, "Marriage has always been between a man and a woman."

We also hear time and again about the "sanctity of marriage," and that marriage was designed by God, and is therefore a religious institution.

These notions are simply not true. Anyone with a basic knowledge of human history would know these claims don't float.

Let's have a quick look at some examples from history which shed some light on how marriage has been defined, and re-defined, over time: def shepherd: Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman

Secondly, you might want to try to explain why same sex marriage is narcissistic and more than heterosexual marriage is....Or do you think that anyone who wishes to marry for romance and sexual attraction is narcissistic? If that is true, I feel very sorry for you.

Lastly, what the hell does any of this have to do with the point of the OP? Answer: Nothing. Off topic bovine excrement.

If you can't acknowledge that it is generally better for children to be raised with a father and mother, you are either intellectually dishonest or ignorant.
Every leader in human history knew this, but only today's narcissistic generation thinks it knows better than anyone in all human history.

So you can't deal with what I just presented to you so now your going to pivot over to the issue of children and parenting. But I'm the one being intellectually dishonest??!! Give me a fucking break!

First of all, there is overwhelming evidence that children do just fine with same sex parents. I challenge you to show otherwise.

Secondly, even if what you claim is true, who exactly does provide the ideal and optimal environment for children and do we restrict the right to marriage and to have children to that group. Lets say that the best parents are wealthy, heterosexual suburbanites. Do we restrict the right to marry, have and raise children to them and exclude low income, inner city people? Are you prepared to go there? If not, your anti gay bigotry is exposed.

And another thing, gay people have children in their care-married or not-just like straight people. Do you really advocate depriving those children of the opportunity to have two married parents who are both their legal guardian? Have you thought much about this AT ALL?

And you're still blathering about this narcissism without dealing with the point that I made about it and the history of marriage. You are becoming a hopeless bore.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

First, you might want to brush up on the history of marriage:

Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman


Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum (Egypt)
One of the most common arguments against marriage equality is the claim, "Marriage has always been between a man and a woman."

We also hear time and again about the "sanctity of marriage," and that marriage was designed by God, and is therefore a religious institution.

These notions are simply not true. Anyone with a basic knowledge of human history would know these claims don't float.

Let's have a quick look at some examples from history which shed some light on how marriage has been defined, and re-defined, over time: def shepherd: Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

Secondly, you might want to try to explain why same sex marriage is narcissistic and more than heterosexual marriage is....Or do you think that anyone who wishes to marry for romance and sexual attraction is narcissistic? If that is true, I feel very sorry for you.

Lastly, what the hell does any of this have to do with the point of the OP? Answer: Nothing. Off topic bovine excrement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leviticus New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
Chapter 18:1-29

Laws Concerning Sexual Behavior. 1 The Lord said to Moses: 2 Speak to the Israelites and tell them: I, the Lord, am your God. 3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived, nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs. 4 My decrees you shall carry out, and my statutes you shall take care to follow. I, the Lord, am your God. 5 Keep, then, my statutes and decrees, for the person who carries them out will find life through them. I am the Lord.

6 None of you shall approach a close relative to have sexual intercourse. I am the Lord. 7 You shall not disgrace your father by having intercourse with your mother. She is your own mother; you shall not have intercourse with her. 8 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s wife, for that would be a disgrace to your father. 9 You shall not have intercourse with your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in your own household or born elsewhere. 10 You shall not have intercourse with your son’s daughter or with your daughter’s daughter, for that would be a disgrace to you. 11 You shall not have intercourse with the daughter whom your father’s wife bore to him in his household, since she, too, is your sister. 12 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s sister, since she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not have intercourse with your mother’s sister, since she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not disgrace your father’s brother by having sexual relations with his wife, since she, too, is your aunt. 15 You shall not have intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife; you shall not have intercourse with her. 16 You shall not have intercourse with your brother’s wife; that would be a disgrace to your brother. 17 You shall not have intercourse with a woman and also with her daughter, nor shall you marry and have intercourse with her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are related to her. This would be shameful. 18 While your wife is still living you shall not marry her sister as her rival and have intercourse with her.

19 You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 You shall not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer any of your offspring for immolation to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. 23 You shall not have sexual relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; that is perverse.

24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, because by them the nations whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. 25 And so the land has become defiled, and I have punished it for its wickedness, and the land has vomited out its inhabitants. 26 You, however, must keep my statutes and decrees, avoiding all these abominations, both the natives and the aliens resident among you— 27 because the previous inhabitants did all these abominations and the land became defiled; 28 otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just as it vomited out the nations before you. 29 For whoever does any of these abominations shall be cut off from the people. 30 Heed my charge, then, not to observe the abominable customs that have been observed before your time, and thus become impure by them. I, the Lord, am your God.[/QUOTE]

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

If you don't see the difference between burning perceived evil at the stake and a fight against being forced to redefine marriage then you're out of your mind.

Witches weren't trying to force their values on people. Heck, they didn't even really exist there.

There is a huge difference between criminal punishment for behavior and retaining civil traditions and values. The two aren't even comparable

It would appear that you didn’t read my post very carefully, or understand it very well. The point is that the same mind set, the same dynamics are involved when a minority is demonized and vilified, whether or not it involves actual violence against them. I call it the continuum of intolerance. They are not distinct or mutually exclusive issues. And by the way, acts of violence have been committed against LGBT people in this country and even more so in other parts of the world.

Secondly, if you want to say that marriage has been redefined you are perfectly welcome to do so. I prefer to say that it was simply broadened to include another group. It really doesn’t matter. These are just words. The fact is that anyone who still believes that marriage is between a man and a woman is free to continue to do so and act accordingly. Everyone defines the meaning of marriage for themselves. Those who are so bothered by it being more inclusive need to take a good hard look at their own relationships to try to understand why they are so threatened by why other people do.

You’re right to say that Witches- who were indeed real in the minds of the colonist- were not “forcing their values on anyone", but neither are gays. Anyone who is so weak minded as to let someone else influence what they think and believe has serious problems.

In addition, the behavior and tactics that I have documented go beyond voicing opposition to same sex marriage. If they had a legitimate argument against it, they would be able to oppose it in a civil manner. Instead, they resort to lies and distortions, intended to drive gay people back into the shadows.

Lastly, you mentioned “a huge difference between criminal punishment for behavior and retaining civil traditions and values.” Let me remind you that these same right wing nuts that I have highlighted here do in fact bemoan the decriminalization of homosexuality. Again, the rhetoric goes way beyond opposition to marriage equality. And as far as values go, logical fallacies in the form of an appeal to tradition do not work-either philosophically or legally.

In other words, "I can't refute you so you're stupid."

Much easier to just say that instead of creating straw men to pretend you are saying more. Saves us all time.

First of all I just did refute you but you, apparently can't see that. Secondly, I did not call you stupid, although it was tempting to do so.

And where is the strawman? Do you even understand what a strawman fallacy is? I responded to exactly what you presented. I did not fabricate a bogus and weak argument that you allegedly made and then shoot it down. Your argument was weak and lacking in substance as presented. Save us time and get lost until you have something of substance to offer.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

First, you might want to brush up on the history of marriage:

Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman


Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum (Egypt)
One of the most common arguments against marriage equality is the claim, "Marriage has always been between a man and a woman."

We also hear time and again about the "sanctity of marriage," and that marriage was designed by God, and is therefore a religious institution.

These notions are simply not true. Anyone with a basic knowledge of human history would know these claims don't float.

Let's have a quick look at some examples from history which shed some light on how marriage has been defined, and re-defined, over time: def shepherd: Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

Secondly, you might want to try to explain why same sex marriage is narcissistic and more than heterosexual marriage is....Or do you think that anyone who wishes to marry for romance and sexual attraction is narcissistic? If that is true, I feel very sorry for you.

Lastly, what the hell does any of this have to do with the point of the OP? Answer: Nothing. Off topic bovine excrement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leviticus New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
Chapter 18:1-29

Laws Concerning Sexual Behavior. 1 The Lord said to Moses: 2 Speak to the Israelites and tell them: I, the Lord, am your God. 3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived, nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs. 4 My decrees you shall carry out, and my statutes you shall take care to follow. I, the Lord, am your God. 5 Keep, then, my statutes and decrees, for the person who carries them out will find life through them. I am the Lord.

6 None of you shall approach a close relative to have sexual intercourse. I am the Lord. 7 You shall not disgrace your father by having intercourse with your mother. She is your own mother; you shall not have intercourse with her. 8 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s wife, for that would be a disgrace to your father. 9 You shall not have intercourse with your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in your own household or born elsewhere. 10 You shall not have intercourse with your son’s daughter or with your daughter’s daughter, for that would be a disgrace to you. 11 You shall not have intercourse with the daughter whom your father’s wife bore to him in his household, since she, too, is your sister. 12 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s sister, since she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not have intercourse with your mother’s sister, since she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not disgrace your father’s brother by having sexual relations with his wife, since she, too, is your aunt. 15 You shall not have intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife; you shall not have intercourse with her. 16 You shall not have intercourse with your brother’s wife; that would be a disgrace to your brother. 17 You shall not have intercourse with a woman and also with her daughter, nor shall you marry and have intercourse with her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are related to her. This would be shameful. 18 While your wife is still living you shall not marry her sister as her rival and have intercourse with her.

19 You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 You shall not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer any of your offspring for immolation to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. 23 You shall not have sexual relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; that is perverse.

24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, because by them the nations whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. 25 And so the land has become defiled, and I have punished it for its wickedness, and the land has vomited out its inhabitants. 26 You, however, must keep my statutes and decrees, avoiding all these abominations, both the natives and the aliens resident among you— 27 because the previous inhabitants did all these abominations and the land became defiled; 28 otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just as it vomited out the nations before you. 29 For whoever does any of these abominations shall be cut off from the people. 30 Heed my charge, then, not to observe the abominable customs that have been observed before your time, and thus become impure by them. I, the Lord, am your God.

Oh please spare me the biblical bovine excrement. Is that all that you have left? This is the exact reason why Salem happened, and why it could happen again if these preachers gain more power. Go away and come back when you have a rational argument.

 

[LittleNipper]

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

First, you might want to brush up on the history of marriage:

Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman


Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum (Egypt)
One of the most common arguments against marriage equality is the claim, "Marriage has always been between a man and a woman."

We also hear time and again about the "sanctity of marriage," and that marriage was designed by God, and is therefore a religious institution.

These notions are simply not true. Anyone with a basic knowledge of human history would know these claims don't float.

Let's have a quick look at some examples from history which shed some light on how marriage has been defined, and re-defined, over time: def shepherd: Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

Secondly, you might want to try to explain why same sex marriage is narcissistic and more than heterosexual marriage is....Or do you think that anyone who wishes to marry for romance and sexual attraction is narcissistic? If that is true, I feel very sorry for you.

Lastly, what the hell does any of this have to do with the point of the OP? Answer: Nothing. Off topic bovine excrement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leviticus New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
Chapter 18:1-29

Laws Concerning Sexual Behavior. 1 The Lord said to Moses: 2 Speak to the Israelites and tell them: I, the Lord, am your God. 3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived, nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs. 4 My decrees you shall carry out, and my statutes you shall take care to follow. I, the Lord, am your God. 5 Keep, then, my statutes and decrees, for the person who carries them out will find life through them. I am the Lord.

6 None of you shall approach a close relative to have sexual intercourse. I am the Lord. 7 You shall not disgrace your father by having intercourse with your mother. She is your own mother; you shall not have intercourse with her. 8 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s wife, for that would be a disgrace to your father. 9 You shall not have intercourse with your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in your own household or born elsewhere. 10 You shall not have intercourse with your son’s daughter or with your daughter’s daughter, for that would be a disgrace to you. 11 You shall not have intercourse with the daughter whom your father’s wife bore to him in his household, since she, too, is your sister. 12 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s sister, since she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not have intercourse with your mother’s sister, since she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not disgrace your father’s brother by having sexual relations with his wife, since she, too, is your aunt. 15 You shall not have intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife; you shall not have intercourse with her. 16 You shall not have intercourse with your brother’s wife; that would be a disgrace to your brother. 17 You shall not have intercourse with a woman and also with her daughter, nor shall you marry and have intercourse with her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are related to her. This would be shameful. 18 While your wife is still living you shall not marry her sister as her rival and have intercourse with her.

19 You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 You shall not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer any of your offspring for immolation to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. 23 You shall not have sexual relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; that is perverse.

24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, because by them the nations whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. 25 And so the land has become defiled, and I have punished it for its wickedness, and the land has vomited out its inhabitants. 26 You, however, must keep my statutes and decrees, avoiding all these abominations, both the natives and the aliens resident among you— 27 because the previous inhabitants did all these abominations and the land became defiled; 28 otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just as it vomited out the nations before you. 29 For whoever does any of these abominations shall be cut off from the people. 30 Heed my charge, then, not to observe the abominable customs that have been observed before your time, and thus become impure by them. I, the Lord, am your God.

Oh please spare me the biblical bovine excrement. Is that all that you have left? This is the exact reason why Salem happened, and why it could happen again if these preachers gain more power. Go away and come back when you have a rational argument.

 

[LittleNipper]

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

First, you might want to brush up on the history of marriage:

Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman


Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum (Egypt)
One of the most common arguments against marriage equality is the claim, "Marriage has always been between a man and a woman."

We also hear time and again about the "sanctity of marriage," and that marriage was designed by God, and is therefore a religious institution.

These notions are simply not true. Anyone with a basic knowledge of human history would know these claims don't float.

Let's have a quick look at some examples from history which shed some light on how marriage has been defined, and re-defined, over time: def shepherd: Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

Secondly, you might want to try to explain why same sex marriage is narcissistic and more than heterosexual marriage is....Or do you think that anyone who wishes to marry for romance and sexual attraction is narcissistic? If that is true, I feel very sorry for you.

Lastly, what the hell does any of this have to do with the point of the OP? Answer: Nothing. Off topic bovine excrement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leviticus New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
Chapter 18:1-29

Laws Concerning Sexual Behavior. 1 The Lord said to Moses: 2 Speak to the Israelites and tell them: I, the Lord, am your God. 3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived, nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs. 4 My decrees you shall carry out, and my statutes you shall take care to follow. I, the Lord, am your God. 5 Keep, then, my statutes and decrees, for the person who carries them out will find life through them. I am the Lord.

6 None of you shall approach a close relative to have sexual intercourse. I am the Lord. 7 You shall not disgrace your father by having intercourse with your mother. She is your own mother; you shall not have intercourse with her. 8 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s wife, for that would be a disgrace to your father. 9 You shall not have intercourse with your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in your own household or born elsewhere. 10 You shall not have intercourse with your son’s daughter or with your daughter’s daughter, for that would be a disgrace to you. 11 You shall not have intercourse with the daughter whom your father’s wife bore to him in his household, since she, too, is your sister. 12 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s sister, since she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not have intercourse with your mother’s sister, since she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not disgrace your father’s brother by having sexual relations with his wife, since she, too, is your aunt. 15 You shall not have intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife; you shall not have intercourse with her. 16 You shall not have intercourse with your brother’s wife; that would be a disgrace to your brother. 17 You shall not have intercourse with a woman and also with her daughter, nor shall you marry and have intercourse with her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are related to her. This would be shameful. 18 While your wife is still living you shall not marry her sister as her rival and have intercourse with her.

19 You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 You shall not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer any of your offspring for immolation to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. 23 You shall not have sexual relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; that is perverse.

24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, because by them the nations whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. 25 And so the land has become defiled, and I have punished it for its wickedness, and the land has vomited out its inhabitants. 26 You, however, must keep my statutes and decrees, avoiding all these abominations, both the natives and the aliens resident among you— 27 because the previous inhabitants did all these abominations and the land became defiled; 28 otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just as it vomited out the nations before you. 29 For whoever does any of these abominations shall be cut off from the people. 30 Heed my charge, then, not to observe the abominable customs that have been observed before your time, and thus become impure by them. I, the Lord, am your God.

Oh please spare me the biblical bovine excrement. Is that all that you have left? This is the exact reason why Salem happened, and why it could happen again if these preachers gain more power. Go away and come back when you have a rational argument.

The only excrement I perceive is that which you give birth to through "homosexual" activity. I look forward to heaven. Your only possible future is growing old at BEST in a few years. The only witch hunters I see are those hunting Christians who wish to live unmolested by your rhetoric. Perhaps you enjoy it when Evangelists come knock at your door. Oh, that is different. You can turn them away, but you feel so slighted at being excluded. Homosexuals that get beat up are not visiting a church ------ they are likely hitting on some drunk in a bar. I pity you. Unless you do some real soul searching, this life is the best you're going to achieve. I don't wish your apparent future on anyone --- not even you.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

First, you might want to brush up on the history of marriage:

Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman


Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum (Egypt)
One of the most common arguments against marriage equality is the claim, "Marriage has always been between a man and a woman."

We also hear time and again about the "sanctity of marriage," and that marriage was designed by God, and is therefore a religious institution.

These notions are simply not true. Anyone with a basic knowledge of human history would know these claims don't float.

Let's have a quick look at some examples from history which shed some light on how marriage has been defined, and re-defined, over time: def shepherd: Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

Secondly, you might want to try to explain why same sex marriage is narcissistic and more than heterosexual marriage is....Or do you think that anyone who wishes to marry for romance and sexual attraction is narcissistic? If that is true, I feel very sorry for you.

Lastly, what the hell does any of this have to do with the point of the OP? Answer: Nothing. Off topic bovine excrement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leviticus New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
Chapter 18:1-29

Laws Concerning Sexual Behavior. 1 The Lord said to Moses: 2 Speak to the Israelites and tell them: I, the Lord, am your God. 3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived, nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs. 4 My decrees you shall carry out, and my statutes you shall take care to follow. I, the Lord, am your God. 5 Keep, then, my statutes and decrees, for the person who carries them out will find life through them. I am the Lord.

6 None of you shall approach a close relative to have sexual intercourse. I am the Lord. 7 You shall not disgrace your father by having intercourse with your mother. She is your own mother; you shall not have intercourse with her. 8 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s wife, for that would be a disgrace to your father. 9 You shall not have intercourse with your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in your own household or born elsewhere. 10 You shall not have intercourse with your son’s daughter or with your daughter’s daughter, for that would be a disgrace to you. 11 You shall not have intercourse with the daughter whom your father’s wife bore to him in his household, since she, too, is your sister. 12 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s sister, since she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not have intercourse with your mother’s sister, since she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not disgrace your father’s brother by having sexual relations with his wife, since she, too, is your aunt. 15 You shall not have intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife; you shall not have intercourse with her. 16 You shall not have intercourse with your brother’s wife; that would be a disgrace to your brother. 17 You shall not have intercourse with a woman and also with her daughter, nor shall you marry and have intercourse with her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are related to her. This would be shameful. 18 While your wife is still living you shall not marry her sister as her rival and have intercourse with her.

19 You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 You shall not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer any of your offspring for immolation to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. 23 You shall not have sexual relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; that is perverse.

24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, because by them the nations whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. 25 And so the land has become defiled, and I have punished it for its wickedness, and the land has vomited out its inhabitants. 26 You, however, must keep my statutes and decrees, avoiding all these abominations, both the natives and the aliens resident among you— 27 because the previous inhabitants did all these abominations and the land became defiled; 28 otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just as it vomited out the nations before you. 29 For whoever does any of these abominations shall be cut off from the people. 30 Heed my charge, then, not to observe the abominable customs that have been observed before your time, and thus become impure by them. I, the Lord, am your God.

Oh please spare me the biblical bovine excrement. Is that all that you have left? This is the exact reason why Salem happened, and why it could happen again if these preachers gain more power. Go away and come back when you have a rational argument.

The only excrement I perceive is that which you give birth to through "homosexual" activity. I look forward to heaven. Your only possible future is growing old at BEST in a few years. The only witch hunters I see are those hunting Christians who wish to live unmolested by your rhetoric. Perhaps you enjoy it when Evangelists come knock at your door. Oh, that is different. You can turn them away, but you feel so slighted at being excluded. Homosexuals that get beat up are not visiting a church ------ they are likely hitting on some drunk in a bar. I pity you. Unless you do some real soul searching, this life is the best you're going to achieve. I don't wish your apparent future on anyone --- not even you.

You have some serious problems bubba. Once you make assumptions about someone's sexuality based on their politics, you have forfeited any claim to credibility that you might have had, and in your case, that isn't much. How long have you been a paranoid schizophrenic?

 

[Pop23]

Still looking for enemies to make the feeble minded feel sorry for you?

Go for it.

It's wearing thin, and people are seeing through the charade.

Yawns

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The New witch Hunt is Real!

Cruz, Huckabee And Jindal Will Join Pastor Who Wants Gays Put To Death
Submitted by Brian Tashman on Thursday, 10/29/2015 12:40 pm
The organizer of the “National Religious Liberties Conference” in Des Moines, Iowa, announced today that Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee and Bobby Jindal have committed to speaking at the summit, which will take place next month. One speaker at the conference, Iowa radio host Steve Deace, has said that Ben Carson has also RSVP’d for the event, although Carson’s name was not included in today’s press release.

Kevin Swanson, the conference’s chief organizer, is a far-right pastor and host of the “Generations Radio” program, on which he has frequently claimed that the government should put gay people to death, warned that the Girl Scouts and the movie “Frozen” turn girls into lesbians and blamed natural disasters on gay people and women who wear pants.

- See more at: Cruz, Huckabee And Jindal Will Join Pastor Who Wants Gays Put To Death

 

[LittleNipper]

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

First, you might want to brush up on the history of marriage:

Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman


Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum (Egypt)
One of the most common arguments against marriage equality is the claim, "Marriage has always been between a man and a woman."

We also hear time and again about the "sanctity of marriage," and that marriage was designed by God, and is therefore a religious institution.

These notions are simply not true. Anyone with a basic knowledge of human history would know these claims don't float.

Let's have a quick look at some examples from history which shed some light on how marriage has been defined, and re-defined, over time: def shepherd: Redefining History: The Myth Of Marriage As Religious Union Between Man & Woman

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

Secondly, you might want to try to explain why same sex marriage is narcissistic and more than heterosexual marriage is....Or do you think that anyone who wishes to marry for romance and sexual attraction is narcissistic? If that is true, I feel very sorry for you.

Lastly, what the hell does any of this have to do with the point of the OP? Answer: Nothing. Off topic bovine excrement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leviticus New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
Chapter 18:1-29

Laws Concerning Sexual Behavior. 1 The Lord said to Moses: 2 Speak to the Israelites and tell them: I, the Lord, am your God. 3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived, nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs. 4 My decrees you shall carry out, and my statutes you shall take care to follow. I, the Lord, am your God. 5 Keep, then, my statutes and decrees, for the person who carries them out will find life through them. I am the Lord.

6 None of you shall approach a close relative to have sexual intercourse. I am the Lord. 7 You shall not disgrace your father by having intercourse with your mother. She is your own mother; you shall not have intercourse with her. 8 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s wife, for that would be a disgrace to your father. 9 You shall not have intercourse with your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in your own household or born elsewhere. 10 You shall not have intercourse with your son’s daughter or with your daughter’s daughter, for that would be a disgrace to you. 11 You shall not have intercourse with the daughter whom your father’s wife bore to him in his household, since she, too, is your sister. 12 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s sister, since she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not have intercourse with your mother’s sister, since she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not disgrace your father’s brother by having sexual relations with his wife, since she, too, is your aunt. 15 You shall not have intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife; you shall not have intercourse with her. 16 You shall not have intercourse with your brother’s wife; that would be a disgrace to your brother. 17 You shall not have intercourse with a woman and also with her daughter, nor shall you marry and have intercourse with her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are related to her. This would be shameful. 18 While your wife is still living you shall not marry her sister as her rival and have intercourse with her.

19 You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 You shall not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer any of your offspring for immolation to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. 23 You shall not have sexual relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; that is perverse.

24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, because by them the nations whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. 25 And so the land has become defiled, and I have punished it for its wickedness, and the land has vomited out its inhabitants. 26 You, however, must keep my statutes and decrees, avoiding all these abominations, both the natives and the aliens resident among you— 27 because the previous inhabitants did all these abominations and the land became defiled; 28 otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just as it vomited out the nations before you. 29 For whoever does any of these abominations shall be cut off from the people. 30 Heed my charge, then, not to observe the abominable customs that have been observed before your time, and thus become impure by them. I, the Lord, am your God.

Oh please spare me the biblical bovine excrement. Is that all that you have left? This is the exact reason why Salem happened, and why it could happen again if these preachers gain more power. Go away and come back when you have a rational argument.

The only excrement I perceive is that which you give birth to through "homosexual" activity. I look forward to heaven. Your only possible future is growing old at BEST in a few years. The only witch hunters I see are those hunting Christians who wish to live unmolested by your rhetoric. Perhaps you enjoy it when Evangelists come knock at your door. Oh, that is different. You can turn them away, but you feel so slighted at being excluded. Homosexuals that get beat up are not visiting a church ------ they are likely hitting on some drunk in a bar. I pity you. Unless you do some real soul searching, this life is the best you're going to achieve. I don't wish your apparent future on anyone --- not even you.

You have some serious problems bubba. Once you make assumptions about someone's sexuality based on their politics, you have forfeited any claim to credibility that you might have had, and in your case, that isn't much. How long have you been a paranoid schizophrenic?

You're the one with a problem. You attack honest individuals who express multiple problems with the legalization and normalization of Homosexual relations. And yet when you get so labeled, well-----you yourself become even more irrational and argumentative. One would think (given your mindset) that you would wear a flag of homosexuality with honor and grace ---- and not try to ditch it! I don't attack you. I go after your beliefs, your motives, your values, and your opinions. Mine at least are founded in faith. Yours seem to be founded in the latest fetish.

 

[Iceweasel]

The claims that the advance of gay rights and secularism an affront to Christians and impinges on religious freedom is without merit.

You are quite the drama queen, aren't you? The Salem Witch trials? Jesus Christ, grow a spine!

Your problem is that like many gays you cannot view the world without looking through gay filters. What you can't comprehend is that people ARE equal, but relationships are not. It's impossible for relationships to be equal, it's a matter of interpretation. You might look down on a brother and sister, or three people together. The bisexual wants to swing both ways. A woman and two men aren't "equal" to a man and woman, the individuals are but the relationship isn't seen the same for most people.

What you and your fellow malcontents do is try to say gender is irrelevant. To you maybe, but you are in effect deciding for everyone else what they should value and think. That's why I have such low regard for your type. I believe in freedom, you don't. If I don't want to bake a fucking gay cake I shouldn't be forced to by government tyranny.

Go pound sand.

 

[Iceweasel]

The New witch Hunt is Real!- See more at: Cruz, Huckabee And Jindal Will Join Pastor Who Wants Gays Put To Death

How about supporting your allegations? I took a look at the idiotsite and they quote a lot of stuff from the pastor but none said to kill gays. Even if someone did say that why does it drive you to distraction? If someone says death to all white people I'm not going to sit here and pee. Grow the fuck up.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

First, you might want to brush up on the history of marriage:

[QUOTE="TheProgressivePatriot, post: 12681985, member: 54822

Secondly, you might want to try to explain why same sex marriage is narcissistic and more than heterosexual marriage is....Or do you think that anyone who wishes to marry for romance and sexual attraction is narcissistic? If that is true, I feel very sorry for you.

Lastly, what the hell does any of this have to do with the point of the OP? Answer: Nothing. Off topic bovine excrement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leviticus New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
Chapter 18:1-29

Laws Concerning Sexual Behavior. 1 The Lord said to Moses: 2 Speak to the Israelites and tell them: I, the Lord, am your God. 3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived, nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs. 4 My decrees you shall carry out, and my statutes you shall take care to follow. I, the Lord, am your God. 5 Keep, then, my statutes and decrees, for the person who carries them out will find life through them. I am the Lord.

6 None of you shall approach a close relative to have sexual intercourse. I am the Lord. 7 You shall not disgrace your father by having intercourse with your mother. She is your own mother; you shall not have intercourse with her. 8 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s wife, for that would be a disgrace to your father. 9 You shall not have intercourse with your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in your own household or born elsewhere. 10 You shall not have intercourse with your son’s daughter or with your daughter’s daughter, for that would be a disgrace to you. 11 You shall not have intercourse with the daughter whom your father’s wife bore to him in his household, since she, too, is your sister. 12 You shall not have intercourse with your father’s sister, since she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not have intercourse with your mother’s sister, since she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not disgrace your father’s brother by having sexual relations with his wife, since she, too, is your aunt. 15 You shall not have intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife; you shall not have intercourse with her. 16 You shall not have intercourse with your brother’s wife; that would be a disgrace to your brother. 17 You shall not have intercourse with a woman and also with her daughter, nor shall you marry and have intercourse with her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are related to her. This would be shameful. 18 While your wife is still living you shall not marry her sister as her rival and have intercourse with her.

19 You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 You shall not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer any of your offspring for immolation to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. 23 You shall not have sexual relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; that is perverse.

24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, because by them the nations whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. 25 And so the land has become defiled, and I have punished it for its wickedness, and the land has vomited out its inhabitants. 26 You, however, must keep my statutes and decrees, avoiding all these abominations, both the natives and the aliens resident among you— 27 because the previous inhabitants did all these abominations and the land became defiled; 28 otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just as it vomited out the nations before you. 29 For whoever does any of these abominations shall be cut off from the people. 30 Heed my charge, then, not to observe the abominable customs that have been observed before your time, and thus become impure by them. I, the Lord, am your God.

Oh please spare me the biblical bovine excrement. Is that all that you have left? This is the exact reason why Salem happened, and why it could happen again if these preachers gain more power. Go away and come back when you have a rational argument.

The only excrement I perceive is that which you give birth to through "homosexual" activity. I look forward to heaven. Your only possible future is growing old at BEST in a few years. The only witch hunters I see are those hunting Christians who wish to live unmolested by your rhetoric. Perhaps you enjoy it when Evangelists come knock at your door. Oh, that is different. You can turn them away, but you feel so slighted at being excluded. Homosexuals that get beat up are not visiting a church ------ they are likely hitting on some drunk in a bar. I pity you. Unless you do some real soul searching, this life is the best you're going to achieve. I don't wish your apparent future on anyone --- not even you.

You have some serious problems bubba. Once you make assumptions about someone's sexuality based on their politics, you have forfeited any claim to credibility that you might have had, and in your case, that isn't much. How long have you been a paranoid schizophrenic?

You're the one with a problem. You attack honest individuals who express multiple problems with the legalization and normalization of Homosexual relations. And yet when you get so labeled, well-----you yourself become even more irrational and argumentative. One would think (given your mindset) that you would wear a flag of homosexuality with honor and grace ---- and not try to ditch it! I don't attack you. I go after your beliefs, your motives, your values, and your opinions. Mine at least are founded in faith. Yours seem to be founded in the latest fetish.

Look bubba, I don't give a rats ass what you think of me. Let me remind you that this thread is about the well documented persecution of gay people which you don't seem to have a problem with.

I am not going to suborn you efforts to derail this thread buy bringing up all sorts of other crap because you can't or wont deal with the actual topic. I have written extensively about the legalization of gay marriage elsewhere on this board and I'm not going to do it again now. Seek it out and get educated.

 

[Iceweasel]

I am not going to suborn you efforts to derail this thread buy bringing up all sorts of other crap because you can't or wont deal with the actual topic. I have written extensively about the legalization of gay marriage elsewhere on this board and I'm not going to do it again now. Seek it out and get educated.

People disagreeing with you isn't persecution. Quit acting like a little girl.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The New witch Hunt is Real!- See more at: Cruz, Huckabee And Jindal Will Join Pastor Who Wants Gays Put To Death

How about supporting your allegations? I took a look at the idiotsite and they quote a lot of stuff from the pastor but none said to kill gays. Even if someone did say that why does it drive you to distraction? If someone says death to all white people I'm not going to sit here and pee. Grow the fuck up.

All genocide begins with hateful rhetoric and marginalizing of the group who will become the victims of violence. If he himself does not commit violence, he is at minimum, inciting others to do so. Grow the fuck up!

Kevin Swanson Nostalgic for Time when Homosexuals faced Death Penalty, Wants 'Miss Piggy on a Bun' for Chick-fil-A Decision Submitted by Brian Tashman on Monday, 7/30/2012 5:00 pm Pastor and radio host Kevin Swanson of Generations with Vision earlier this month expressed nostalgia for the Pilgrims’ approach to homosexuality, when it was punishable by death. On his radio show last week, longed for a time when Christians “brought the death penalty upon homosexuality” and “for about 1,500 years that form of life had pretty much been eliminated except here and there.” - See more at: Kevin Swanson Nostalgic for Time when Homosexuals faced Death Penalty, Wants 'Miss Piggy on a Bun' for Chick-fil-A Decision

 

[Iceweasel]

The New witch Hunt is Real!- See more at: Cruz, Huckabee And Jindal Will Join Pastor Who Wants Gays Put To Death

How about supporting your allegations? I took a look at the idiotsite and they quote a lot of stuff from the pastor but none said to kill gays. Even if someone did say that why does it drive you to distraction? If someone says death to all white people I'm not going to sit here and pee. Grow the fuck up.

All genocide begins with hateful rhetoric and marginalizing of the group who will become the victims of violence. If he himself does not commit violence, he is at minimum, inciting others to do so. Grow the fuck up!

Kevin Swanson Nostalgic for Time when Homosexuals faced Death Penalty, Wants 'Miss Piggy on a Bun' for Chick-fil-A Decision Submitted by Brian Tashman on Monday, 7/30/2012 5:00 pm Pastor and radio host Kevin Swanson of Generations with Vision earlier this month expressed nostalgia for the Pilgrims’ approach to homosexuality, when it was punishable by death. On his radio show last week, longed for a time when Christians “brought the death penalty upon homosexuality” and “for about 1,500 years that form of life had pretty much been eliminated except here and there.” - See more at: Kevin Swanson Nostalgic for Time when Homosexuals faced Death Penalty, Wants 'Miss Piggy on a Bun' for Chick-fil-A Decision

That's what I thought. A guy nostalgic about a time hundreds of years ago does not translate into modern day persecution. Just because he upsets you doesn't mean there's a witch hunt or genocide (which is about racial, cultural or religious groups, not sexual preferences) around the corner.

 

[Steven_R]

Here we go with the sexually retarded attempting to make the marriage issue about religious garbage.

Marriage isn't about honouring homosexual unions and it is most certainly not about honouring religion either, it is about honouring the unity of the one sexual orientation to which we all owe our very existence.

Here they are attempting to compare their lies and deception with witch hunts as they use every lie and deception to support their every lie and deception that they used to make this soon to be short lived mockery of marriage in the first place.

What really makes me laugh in their pathetic faces is that now that they have managed to make this soon to be short lived mockery of marriage, it's like they expected to sweep marriage under the rug and that they made a mockery of it would be forgotten and the problem they created for themselves would just go away. I got news for you, the party is just getting started.

The mentality of the homosexual activist is absolutely ridiculous.

Here they are attempting to make the issue about claiming that homosexuals don't choose to be born that way.

Whether or not homosexuals choose to be homosexual doesn't detract from the fact that thousands of years since marriage was created proves that marriage is about honouring the unity of the one sexual orientation to which we all owe our very existence and that sexual unity is quite obviously heterosexual unions, and that thanks to heterosexual unions each and every single human being even exists makes heterosexual unions quite obviously well above any other sexual union worth honouring with something called marriage. It is a distinction most worthy of acknowledgement which is why this pathetic modern day mockery homosexual activists have made of marriage will soon be short lived as marriage will soon be restored to the respectful state it was created for and in honour of.

Whether or not homosexuals choose to be born homosexual doesn't detract from the fact that if it were up to homosexual unions to sustain the human race, we would have died off thousands of years ago for weakly being a race of sexually defective and there is quite obviously not anything to honour in that in equal distinction to heterosexual unions, and no matter how much homosexuals and homosexuals refuse to accept homosexuals for what homosexuals are, that still does not change this fact.

Homosexual unions do not equal heterosexual unions no matter how much homosexuals and homosexual activists refuse to accept homosexuals for what homosexuals are. Whether or not homosexuals choose to be born homosexual or not doesn't detract from this fact and nor does it carry so much as a shred of validity to do with the foundation of this primary issue no matter how much homosexuals and homosexual activists refuse to accept homosexuals for what homosexuals are!

Yet the fact that since marriage was created and for thousands of years of only heterosexual unions being honoured with marriage prove that your so called belief is already falsified thus proven yet another homosexual activist lie.

Arranged marriages prove that marriage isn't about who you love, as well arranged marriages were always in honour of heterosexual unions. I made bold a paragraph within the following for you.

Marriage:
Fact: If it were up to homosexual unions to sustain the human race, we would have died off thousands of years ago for weakly being a race of sexually defective. Thanks to heterosexual unions we even exist which is the factual evidence that proves homosexual unions do not equal heterosexual unions and that thousands of years of only heterosexual unions being honoured with marriage proves that marriage was never about honouring that if it were up to homosexual unions to sustain the human race, we would have died off thousands of years ago for weakly being a race of sexually defective. Thousands of years Homosexual activists are calling marriage an equality issue when homosexual unions do not even equal heterosexual unions to begin with quite obviously.

I know many of you are aware of this as I myself was made aware by the media as it happened over the years and each and every time homosexual activists failed, they attempted a new lies and deceptions all the while evading the fact that thousands of years prove that marriage is about honouring heterosexual unions. (hence the insane homosexual activist obsessive compulsive lying deceiving mentality) Not one of them ever will contest this fact with so much as a shred of validity as not one of them ever did. All they do is attempt to make their delusions the issue such as:
They attempted to make the issue about some people in society feeling uncomfortable about different human racial variations getting married. Yet even different variations of the human race getting married was also always in honour of the unity of male and female!!!

*They even deceptively tried to make marriage to be about being with who you love. They again ignored the fact that love may have been present in many marriages but marriage itself was always between heterosexual unions of which beside that primary fact to do with this issue, not every heterosexual couple got married out of love and the USA Supreme Court themselves even acknowledges this fact and I'll get to that just below!!!*

They also tried to make the issue about heterosexual couples who are not able to birth children and can still get married. That was when they were deceptively trying to make the issue of marriage into "marriage isn't about procreation." What they avoided, I find quite obvious, is the fact that heterosexual couples that can not have children still doesn't disrespect that marriage was created for and in honour of heterosexual unions!!! Marriage wouldn't even exist now if it were not for heterosexual unions. None of us would even exist now if it were not for heterosexual unions which quite obviously makes heterosexual unions, well above all other unions, worth honouring. If it were up to homosexuality to sustain the human population, we quite obviously would have died off thousands of years ago for weakly being a race of sexually defective and where is the honour in that?
Because it was brought to homosexual activists attention that marriage isn't about honouring that if it were up to homosexuals to sustain the human race, we would have died off thousands of years ago for weakly being a race of sexually defective thus exemplifying that marriage is being disrespected by these activists attempting to make a complete mockery of it, they then attempted to claim that divorce disrespects marriage in attempt to make their delusions the issue once again. Yet the fact remains that divorce certainly doesn't disrespect the fact that marriage was created for and in honour of heterosexual unions, but homosexual activists attempt every lie and deception in attempt to make their delusions the issue.
Homosexual activists even have even become scholars in recent past then attempted to claim that every gay relationship they could find recorded throughout history was a marriage. I was in two relationships myself but was never married but if homosexual activists thought it would help their lies and deceptions they would call each of my relationships a marriage because they try and make every lie and deception that they can possibly fathom appear relevant in attempt to try and make their delusions the issue! Back in the Days of the Roman Empire for example homosexuals were beheaded for attempting to make a mockery of marriage but homosexual activists attempt to claim such short lived mockeries as actual marriages.
Homosexual activists have even attempted to make ghost marriages the issue of which ghost marriages were about honouring heterosexual unions of couples after they passed away because of such things in some cultures where the second born could not marry before the first born of a family. So if the first born never married, the family would have to wait until the next sibling died to have a ghost marriage!
The USA Supreme Courts lame excuse for supporting a bunch of filthy homosexual activist lies and deceptions:

The Court notes, marriage was once viewed as an arrangement in which women were treated as the property of their husbands and subordinate to their will. As the Court observes, this came to be viewed as grossly unjust and so the institution of marriage evolved to rid itself of the injustice.
Which is another factual example of marriage honouring the unity of the one sexual orientation to which we all owe our very existence and that union again are heterosexual unions before and after that court made a decision. Here is where the Supreme Court makes a complete mockery of themselves and in this instance the USA while then after expect citizens to respect a bunch of filthy lies and deceptions or face jail:
Today the Court announces that that time has come to recognize the injustice in the disparate treatment of gays and lesbians seeking the right to marry.
Homosexual activists lie by claiming that there is discrimination or an injustice but they obviously do not back that claim with even so much as a shred of validity because this is not an equality or discrimination issue because we all equally have the right to marry those born with the opposite sex genital that we ourselves are born with because that is what marriage was created for and in honour of and thousands of years of only heterosexual unions being honoured with marriage proves it beyond any shadow of doubt.
Homosexual activists even attempt such rhetoric as: The fact something is usually done in some way does not prove that it is has to be done that way, or that it should be done that way
Not anything will ever change the fact throughout the existence of the human race that thanks to heterosexual unions we even exist which is worth honouring with marriage (hence is what marriage was created for and in honour of and thousands of years proves it) no matter how desperately homosexual activist scramble to try and make their every lie and deception the issue because they refuse to accept homosexuals for what homosexuals are! Because homosexual activists refuse to accept homosexuals for what homosexuals are they are throwing away tax dollars with their every lie and deception while causing headaches over complete garbage and I say make these imbeciles pay back every cent out of their own insane pockets! It's likely enough to bring any country enduring such rhetoric out of deficit and beyond!

again

thanks to heterosexual unions each and every single human being even exists makes heterosexual unions quite obviously well above any other sexual union worth honouring with something called marriage. It is a distinction most worthy of acknowledgement which is why this pathetic modern day mockery homosexual activists have made of marriage will soon be short lived as marriage will soon be restored to the respectful state it was created for and in honour of.

if it were up to homosexual unions to sustain the human race, we would have died off thousands of years ago for weakly being a race of sexually defective and there is quite obviously not anything to honour in that in equal distinction to heterosexual unions, and no matter how much homosexuals and homosexuals refuse to accept homosexuals for what homosexuals are, that still does not change this fact.

Homosexual unions do not equal heterosexual unions no matter how much homosexuals and homosexual activists refuse to accept homosexuals for what homosexuals are. Whether or not homosexuals choose to be born homosexual or not doesn't detract from this fact and nor does it carry so much as a shred of validity to do with the foundation of this primary issue no matter how much homosexuals and homosexual activists refuse to accept homosexuals for what homosexuals are!

again

Thousands of years since marriage was created proves that marriage is about honouring the unity of the one sexual orientation to which we all owe our very existence and that sexual unity is quite obviously heterosexual unions, and that thanks to heterosexual unions each and every single human being even exists makes heterosexual unions quite obviously well above any other sexual union worth honouring with something called marriage. It is a distinction most worthy of acknowledgement which is why this pathetic modern day mockery homosexual activists have made of marriage will soon be short lived as marriage will soon be restored to the respectful state it was created for and in honour of.

love

Primary Factual Fundamentalist World Class Activist
David Jeffrey Spetch
Ps. Be good, be strong!
Hamilton Ontario Canada

First of all, gays CAN and DO have children, ALL THE TIME. Hetero couples sometimes use the same techniques to have children as gay people do.

Secondly, gay couples who don't have children are just like hetero couples who don't have children, of which there are probably more childless hetero couples than gay ones.

Thirdly, didn't you say that you were coming out the closet this week?

Remember that whole liberty thing the US was founded on? Live and let live ring any bells? If your neighbors are gay, are you really harmed? If they get married, does it somehow invalidate your marriage? If two dudes say they love each other and want to spend their lives together does it you love you wife less?

Don't like gay marriage? Don't get one. Don't like buttsechs? Don't do it. Don't want to listen to rock music? Turn the station. It's really not that hard to live your own life without worrying about what your neighbors are up to and getting all bent out of shape when you find out.

The United States was founded on the principle of Government of the people, for the people, by the people. The vast majority of the people voted against "Homosexual " marriage. The government took it upon themselves to force communities to make provisions for "homosexual behavior." And if YOU or anyone like YOU is going to force non-homosexuals to fulfill YOUR fantasies than that goes against the Constitution (NO ADMENDMENT WAS ADDED). YOU force others by suing bakers, hotels/etc., and photographers. YOU and those like YOU have made it everyone else's problem.

I see you're a fan of tyranny of the majority. It's all well and good until it's something you want the basic human freedom to do something that harms no one but the majority say nope.