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Man says Nazis were socialist, gets schooled by history writer
Its as dumb a position as democrats are the racists. Sick of hearing this ignorant shite from apologists.
Man says Nazis were socialist, gets schooled by history writer
Its as dumb a position as democrats are the racists. Sick of hearing this ignorant shite from apologists.
You dumbass sheep-stealing/sexing Welsh moron.
Socialist was imbedded in the name of the Nazi party.
So were you stealing that sheep, or going to fornicate with it?
Lemme guess, you were really stealing it.
Don't make us regret bailing your asses out.
The US and Oz actually killed more Nazis than the UK.
Nazis controlled every facet of people's lives, which is the epitome of Socialism.
You couldn't listen to outside radio without getting a visit from the brownshirts and hauled off in the middle of the night to be executed.
That's socialism.
Revisionist claptrap.Sick of hearing this crap.Man says Nazis were socialist, gets schooled by history writer
Its as dumb a position as democrats are the racists. Sick of hearing this ignorant shite from apologists.
You dumbass sheep-stealing/sexing Welsh moron.
Socialist was imbedded in the name of the Nazi party.
So were you stealing that sheep, or going to fornicate with it?
Lemme guess, you were really stealing it.
Don't make us regret bailing your asses out.
The US and Oz actually killed more Nazis than the UK.
Nazis controlled every facet of people's lives, which is the epitome of Socialism.
You couldn't listen to outside radio without getting a visit from the brownshirts and hauled off in the middle of the night to be executed.
That's National socialism.
There is a spectrum. The Tories are the most "normal" in that they recognise that they need to dupe ordinary folk to get power. Then the further right you move its pretty grim.The Nazis used the government to control all businesses, only leaving businesses 'privatized' in name only. They also had universal healthcare, and all workers were owned by the government. Because the government controlled the businesses, Social ownership, they were, indeed, socialist. Besides that, the guy did nothing to prove the Nazis were right wing, and did nothing to prove that the Nazis weren't Socialist. In fact, he proved that they were Socialist, and only told us that they were ALSO fascist, further proving that Fascism and Socialism go hand in hand.Man says Nazis were socialist, gets schooled by history writer
Its as dumb a position as democrats are the racists. Sick of hearing this ignorant shite from apologists.
Hey Tommy, are the conservatives in your country as STUPID as they are here?
The right in the UK is a small grouping that can only be relevant when times are hard and people are hacked off. In the interim they enjoy Koch funded trips to the home of nuttiness in order to pick up extremist policies.
Is this really a thread on if the National Socialist German Workers' Party (commonly referred to as the Nazi party in English) was Socialist or not?
What's next arguing if the USA is actually a United group of States in the America's?
Who got to keep the profits from those business, in fact those industrialists benefited greatly from the the Nazis.Mistaking "Social Ownership" with People's ownership. Public ownership is a form of Social Ownership, and the government controlled the means of production, which is Socialism.They're both far left in terms of policies. Nobody on the left can point to any right wing policies implemented by Hitler. Meanwhile, I can, and have, pointed out many far left policies put in place by both.Well its such a whopper it needs calling out.Stop. They'll post a thousand dark web sites proving you wrong. Don't poke the sleeping animals.
I suppose the good thing is that deep down they know that Hitler was A BAD MAN and thats why they try to wriggle away from him. .
The left owns Stalin, the right owns Hitler, though in truth neither are really "left" or "right" so much as genocidal totalitarians in a category of their own.
No, not really. Hitler cobbled together his own ideology, more right then left. In fact, after he secured his power, socialists were the first to go along with their anti-capitalist ideas. He only tolerated them while he was gathering support. Top ranking socialists in his party, such as Gregor Strasser were executed. There was no redistribution of wealth or land nor was there the "people's" ownership of anything or the collectivization of property or industry. During his rise he courted both industrialists and workers, but who do you suppose actually benefited and who became the target of empty rhetoric?
The main attributes of extreme leftwing ideology are lacking in Nazism: collectivization, redistibution and the idea of class equality vs. a stringent heirarchy (as with the Nazi's), anti-capitalism.
The main attributes of extreme rightwing ideology include: authoritarianism, extreme anti-communist/socialist, xenophobia, nativism and opposition to class or gender equality.
For example, while Hitler took control of some of Germany's industries, he still left it under the ownership of private industrialists. And there is also overlap - both extreme left and right seem to end up authoritarian.
Was Adolf Hitler a Socialist? Debunking a Historical Myth
It’s worth pointing out that all aspects of Nazism had forerunners in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, and Hitler tended to cobble his ideology together from them; some historians think that ‘ideology’ gives Hitler too much credit for something which can be hard to pin down. He knew how to take things which made the socialists popular and apply them to give his party a boost. But historian Neil Gregor, in his introduction to a discussion of Nazism which includes many experts, says:
“As with other fascist ideologies and movements, it subscribed to an ideology of national renewal, rebirth, and rejuvenation manifesting itself in extreme populist radical nationalism, militarism, and – in contradistinction to many other forms of fascism, extreme biological racism…the movement understood itself to be, and indeed was, a new form of political movement…the anti-Socialist, anti-liberal, and radical nationalist tenets of Nazi ideology applied particularly to the sentiments of a middle class disorientated by the domestic and international upheavals in the inter-war period.” (Neil Gregor, Nazism, Oxford, 2000 p 4-5.)
The private sector owned their businesses ONLY in name, the government told them what to do and how.
Socialism doesn't require everyone to be equal, that's Communism, which eliminates all Social classes. And as stated above, the Government did control the means of production, which is anti-capitalist.
Is that because you say so, or do you have some kind of proof? You're basically stating the Nazis were right wing because all rightists are racist and xenophobic, which is at best, laughable logic, and only further demonstrates that you on the left can't point to a single right wing policy implemented under Hitler. Besides that, Authoritarianism is entirely left wing in concept, hence government expansion mostly coming from the left, sacrificing freedom for 'security', hell, Socialism is left wing, and it REQUIRES big government.
If rightism requires one to hate Socialism, then Hitler isn't right wing, because he took control of businesses.
I already mentioned that they only controlled their own businesses in name. The government told them what to do and when. By all rights, though, people will likely stop reading your post when you state xenophobia and racism are right wing. That's entirely a leftist talking point with no real world backing.
Change it to the right and you would be right.Old Brits must be familiar with the Bard so here's a quote "me thinks the left protests too much".
Is that like the DEMOCRATIC People's Republic of Korea?Is this really a thread on if the National Socialist German Workers' Party (commonly referred to as the Nazi party in English) was Socialist or not?
What's next arguing if the USA is actually a United group of States in the America's?
Extremist policies, like murdering babies and Jim Crow laws? Oh wait, that's the left. Stalin sends his regards.There is a spectrum. The Tories are the most "normal" in that they recognise that they need to dupe ordinary folk to get power. Then the further right you move its pretty grim.The Nazis used the government to control all businesses, only leaving businesses 'privatized' in name only. They also had universal healthcare, and all workers were owned by the government. Because the government controlled the businesses, Social ownership, they were, indeed, socialist. Besides that, the guy did nothing to prove the Nazis were right wing, and did nothing to prove that the Nazis weren't Socialist. In fact, he proved that they were Socialist, and only told us that they were ALSO fascist, further proving that Fascism and Socialism go hand in hand.Man says Nazis were socialist, gets schooled by history writer
Its as dumb a position as democrats are the racists. Sick of hearing this ignorant shite from apologists.
Hey Tommy, are the conservatives in your country as STUPID as they are here?
The right in the UK is a small grouping that can only be relevant when times are hard and people are hacked off. In the interim they enjoy Koch funded trips to the home of nuttiness in order to pick up extremist policies.
Whether or not businesses kept some amount of profits doesn't determine whether or not it was Socialism, the means of production were still Socially controlled.Who got to keep the profits from those business, in fact those industrialists benefited greatly from the the Nazis.Mistaking "Social Ownership" with People's ownership. Public ownership is a form of Social Ownership, and the government controlled the means of production, which is Socialism.They're both far left in terms of policies. Nobody on the left can point to any right wing policies implemented by Hitler. Meanwhile, I can, and have, pointed out many far left policies put in place by both.Well its such a whopper it needs calling out.
I suppose the good thing is that deep down they know that Hitler was A BAD MAN and thats why they try to wriggle away from him. .
The left owns Stalin, the right owns Hitler, though in truth neither are really "left" or "right" so much as genocidal totalitarians in a category of their own.
No, not really. Hitler cobbled together his own ideology, more right then left. In fact, after he secured his power, socialists were the first to go along with their anti-capitalist ideas. He only tolerated them while he was gathering support. Top ranking socialists in his party, such as Gregor Strasser were executed. There was no redistribution of wealth or land nor was there the "people's" ownership of anything or the collectivization of property or industry. During his rise he courted both industrialists and workers, but who do you suppose actually benefited and who became the target of empty rhetoric?
The main attributes of extreme leftwing ideology are lacking in Nazism: collectivization, redistibution and the idea of class equality vs. a stringent heirarchy (as with the Nazi's), anti-capitalism.
The main attributes of extreme rightwing ideology include: authoritarianism, extreme anti-communist/socialist, xenophobia, nativism and opposition to class or gender equality.
For example, while Hitler took control of some of Germany's industries, he still left it under the ownership of private industrialists. And there is also overlap - both extreme left and right seem to end up authoritarian.
Was Adolf Hitler a Socialist? Debunking a Historical Myth
It’s worth pointing out that all aspects of Nazism had forerunners in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, and Hitler tended to cobble his ideology together from them; some historians think that ‘ideology’ gives Hitler too much credit for something which can be hard to pin down. He knew how to take things which made the socialists popular and apply them to give his party a boost. But historian Neil Gregor, in his introduction to a discussion of Nazism which includes many experts, says:
“As with other fascist ideologies and movements, it subscribed to an ideology of national renewal, rebirth, and rejuvenation manifesting itself in extreme populist radical nationalism, militarism, and – in contradistinction to many other forms of fascism, extreme biological racism…the movement understood itself to be, and indeed was, a new form of political movement…the anti-Socialist, anti-liberal, and radical nationalist tenets of Nazi ideology applied particularly to the sentiments of a middle class disorientated by the domestic and international upheavals in the inter-war period.” (Neil Gregor, Nazism, Oxford, 2000 p 4-5.)
The private sector owned their businesses ONLY in name, the government told them what to do and how.
Socialism doesn't require everyone to be equal, that's Communism, which eliminates all Social classes. And as stated above, the Government did control the means of production, which is anti-capitalist.
Is that because you say so, or do you have some kind of proof? You're basically stating the Nazis were right wing because all rightists are racist and xenophobic, which is at best, laughable logic, and only further demonstrates that you on the left can't point to a single right wing policy implemented under Hitler. Besides that, Authoritarianism is entirely left wing in concept, hence government expansion mostly coming from the left, sacrificing freedom for 'security', hell, Socialism is left wing, and it REQUIRES big government.
If rightism requires one to hate Socialism, then Hitler isn't right wing, because he took control of businesses.
I already mentioned that they only controlled their own businesses in name. The government told them what to do and when. By all rights, though, people will likely stop reading your post when you state xenophobia and racism are right wing. That's entirely a leftist talking point with no real world backing.
What I notice is a concerted modern effort by the right to overrule historians and redefine Nazism as left wing thus absorbing their ideology of any taint and attempting to pass it on to the left.
It is a recent phenomenum...and a bit cowardly. Just as the left owns Stalin and communism and Antifa , the Right owns Hitler and fascism, and it's remnants, the neonazis.
I don't use leftwing talking points, I look at what historians say.
Man says Nazis were socialist, gets schooled by history writer
Its as dumb a position as democrats are the racists. Sick of hearing this ignorant shite from apologists.
You dumbass sheep-stealing/sexing Welsh moron.
Socialist was imbedded in the name of the Nazi party.
So were you stealing that sheep, or going to fornicate with it?
Lemme guess, you were really stealing it.
Don't make us regret bailing your asses out.
The US and Oz actually killed more Nazis than the UK.
Nazis controlled every facet of people's lives, which is the epitome of Socialism.
You couldn't listen to outside radio without getting a visit from the brownshirts and hauled off in the middle of the night to be executed.
That's National socialism.
Man says Nazis were socialist, gets schooled by history writer
Its as dumb a position as democrats are the racists. Sick of hearing this ignorant shite from apologists.
Does such a party exist ? You would need to offer up some proof for that.Man says Nazis were socialist, gets schooled by history writer
Its as dumb a position as democrats are the racists. Sick of hearing this ignorant shite from apologists.
What do you call a party that divides people into groups by characteristic and tells them they are victims who can't thrive or survive in society without their protection? Democrats/racists.
Whether or not businesses kept some amount of profits doesn't determine whether or not it was Socialism, the means of production were still Socially controlled.Who got to keep the profits from those business, in fact those industrialists benefited greatly from the the Nazis.Mistaking "Social Ownership" with People's ownership. Public ownership is a form of Social Ownership, and the government controlled the means of production, which is Socialism.They're both far left in terms of policies. Nobody on the left can point to any right wing policies implemented by Hitler. Meanwhile, I can, and have, pointed out many far left policies put in place by both.The left owns Stalin, the right owns Hitler, though in truth neither are really "left" or "right" so much as genocidal totalitarians in a category of their own.
No, not really. Hitler cobbled together his own ideology, more right then left. In fact, after he secured his power, socialists were the first to go along with their anti-capitalist ideas. He only tolerated them while he was gathering support. Top ranking socialists in his party, such as Gregor Strasser were executed. There was no redistribution of wealth or land nor was there the "people's" ownership of anything or the collectivization of property or industry. During his rise he courted both industrialists and workers, but who do you suppose actually benefited and who became the target of empty rhetoric?
The main attributes of extreme leftwing ideology are lacking in Nazism: collectivization, redistibution and the idea of class equality vs. a stringent heirarchy (as with the Nazi's), anti-capitalism.
The main attributes of extreme rightwing ideology include: authoritarianism, extreme anti-communist/socialist, xenophobia, nativism and opposition to class or gender equality.
For example, while Hitler took control of some of Germany's industries, he still left it under the ownership of private industrialists. And there is also overlap - both extreme left and right seem to end up authoritarian.
Was Adolf Hitler a Socialist? Debunking a Historical Myth
It’s worth pointing out that all aspects of Nazism had forerunners in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, and Hitler tended to cobble his ideology together from them; some historians think that ‘ideology’ gives Hitler too much credit for something which can be hard to pin down. He knew how to take things which made the socialists popular and apply them to give his party a boost. But historian Neil Gregor, in his introduction to a discussion of Nazism which includes many experts, says:
“As with other fascist ideologies and movements, it subscribed to an ideology of national renewal, rebirth, and rejuvenation manifesting itself in extreme populist radical nationalism, militarism, and – in contradistinction to many other forms of fascism, extreme biological racism…the movement understood itself to be, and indeed was, a new form of political movement…the anti-Socialist, anti-liberal, and radical nationalist tenets of Nazi ideology applied particularly to the sentiments of a middle class disorientated by the domestic and international upheavals in the inter-war period.” (Neil Gregor, Nazism, Oxford, 2000 p 4-5.)
The private sector owned their businesses ONLY in name, the government told them what to do and how.
Socialism doesn't require everyone to be equal, that's Communism, which eliminates all Social classes. And as stated above, the Government did control the means of production, which is anti-capitalist.
Is that because you say so, or do you have some kind of proof? You're basically stating the Nazis were right wing because all rightists are racist and xenophobic, which is at best, laughable logic, and only further demonstrates that you on the left can't point to a single right wing policy implemented under Hitler. Besides that, Authoritarianism is entirely left wing in concept, hence government expansion mostly coming from the left, sacrificing freedom for 'security', hell, Socialism is left wing, and it REQUIRES big government.
If rightism requires one to hate Socialism, then Hitler isn't right wing, because he took control of businesses.
I already mentioned that they only controlled their own businesses in name. The government told them what to do and when. By all rights, though, people will likely stop reading your post when you state xenophobia and racism are right wing. That's entirely a leftist talking point with no real world backing.
What I notice is a concerted modern effort by the right to overrule historians and redefine Nazism as left wing thus absorbing their ideology of any taint and attempting to pass it on to the left.
It is a recent phenomenum...and a bit cowardly. Just as the left owns Stalin and communism and Antifa , the Right owns Hitler and fascism, and it's remnants, the neonazis.
I don't use leftwing talking points, I look at what historians say.
I've been pointing to history the entire time, so it's hardly overruling history. Or are you telling me that I'm not supposed to look at history for myself, and am instead supposed to take the left's word for it? Maybe there wouldn't be so much dirt on the left if they didn't seek to form a totalitarian government which owns everyone and everything. It can backfire in so many ways.
Yet you still can't point to a single right wing policy implemented under Hitler. If he was right wing, it would have been easy, yet you shrink back and repeat yourself instead. Why is it that I'm the only one capable of citing any of his policies as evidence to back my point, yet you claim history is on your side? Looks like a flawed argument to me.
Man says Nazis were socialist, gets schooled by history writer
Its as dumb a position as democrats are the racists. Sick of hearing this ignorant shite from apologists.
YOU gloss over the actual political beliefs and activity of the Nazis, and you try to spin it so that racism is inherent to one party. You have absolutely ZERO evidence and historical backing for your assertion. I actually wonder if there's anyone left on this forum that takes you seriously, given that rather than address any of my points, you stopped to call your political opponents racist.Whether or not businesses kept some amount of profits doesn't determine whether or not it was Socialism, the means of production were still Socially controlled.Who got to keep the profits from those business, in fact those industrialists benefited greatly from the the Nazis.Mistaking "Social Ownership" with People's ownership. Public ownership is a form of Social Ownership, and the government controlled the means of production, which is Socialism.They're both far left in terms of policies. Nobody on the left can point to any right wing policies implemented by Hitler. Meanwhile, I can, and have, pointed out many far left policies put in place by both.
No, not really. Hitler cobbled together his own ideology, more right then left. In fact, after he secured his power, socialists were the first to go along with their anti-capitalist ideas. He only tolerated them while he was gathering support. Top ranking socialists in his party, such as Gregor Strasser were executed. There was no redistribution of wealth or land nor was there the "people's" ownership of anything or the collectivization of property or industry. During his rise he courted both industrialists and workers, but who do you suppose actually benefited and who became the target of empty rhetoric?
The main attributes of extreme leftwing ideology are lacking in Nazism: collectivization, redistibution and the idea of class equality vs. a stringent heirarchy (as with the Nazi's), anti-capitalism.
The main attributes of extreme rightwing ideology include: authoritarianism, extreme anti-communist/socialist, xenophobia, nativism and opposition to class or gender equality.
For example, while Hitler took control of some of Germany's industries, he still left it under the ownership of private industrialists. And there is also overlap - both extreme left and right seem to end up authoritarian.
Was Adolf Hitler a Socialist? Debunking a Historical Myth
It’s worth pointing out that all aspects of Nazism had forerunners in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, and Hitler tended to cobble his ideology together from them; some historians think that ‘ideology’ gives Hitler too much credit for something which can be hard to pin down. He knew how to take things which made the socialists popular and apply them to give his party a boost. But historian Neil Gregor, in his introduction to a discussion of Nazism which includes many experts, says:
“As with other fascist ideologies and movements, it subscribed to an ideology of national renewal, rebirth, and rejuvenation manifesting itself in extreme populist radical nationalism, militarism, and – in contradistinction to many other forms of fascism, extreme biological racism…the movement understood itself to be, and indeed was, a new form of political movement…the anti-Socialist, anti-liberal, and radical nationalist tenets of Nazi ideology applied particularly to the sentiments of a middle class disorientated by the domestic and international upheavals in the inter-war period.” (Neil Gregor, Nazism, Oxford, 2000 p 4-5.)
The private sector owned their businesses ONLY in name, the government told them what to do and how.
Socialism doesn't require everyone to be equal, that's Communism, which eliminates all Social classes. And as stated above, the Government did control the means of production, which is anti-capitalist.
Is that because you say so, or do you have some kind of proof? You're basically stating the Nazis were right wing because all rightists are racist and xenophobic, which is at best, laughable logic, and only further demonstrates that you on the left can't point to a single right wing policy implemented under Hitler. Besides that, Authoritarianism is entirely left wing in concept, hence government expansion mostly coming from the left, sacrificing freedom for 'security', hell, Socialism is left wing, and it REQUIRES big government.
If rightism requires one to hate Socialism, then Hitler isn't right wing, because he took control of businesses.
I already mentioned that they only controlled their own businesses in name. The government told them what to do and when. By all rights, though, people will likely stop reading your post when you state xenophobia and racism are right wing. That's entirely a leftist talking point with no real world backing.
What I notice is a concerted modern effort by the right to overrule historians and redefine Nazism as left wing thus absorbing their ideology of any taint and attempting to pass it on to the left.
It is a recent phenomenum...and a bit cowardly. Just as the left owns Stalin and communism and Antifa , the Right owns Hitler and fascism, and it's remnants, the neonazis.
I don't use leftwing talking points, I look at what historians say.
I've been pointing to history the entire time, so it's hardly overruling history. Or are you telling me that I'm not supposed to look at history for myself, and am instead supposed to take the left's word for it? Maybe there wouldn't be so much dirt on the left if they didn't seek to form a totalitarian government which owns everyone and everything. It can backfire in so many ways.
Yet you still can't point to a single right wing policy implemented under Hitler. If he was right wing, it would have been easy, yet you shrink back and repeat yourself instead. Why is it that I'm the only one capable of citing any of his policies as evidence to back my point, yet you claim history is on your side? Looks like a flawed argument to me.
You gloss over their treatment of minorities and their belief in a master race. That has been a mainstay of all extreme right parties ever since.Nazis hate people who are different to themselves. They probably hate themselves as well but that is a different thread. Look at these chumps in their Nazi regalia and try to find another platform to stand on. (whites only ?)
