The end of the autism/vaccine debate?

[Barb]

Which study shows that? This should be interesting.

Mercury Poisoning Symptoms, Causes, Treatment - What about thimerosal in vaccines on MedicineNet

One of the later citations on this list shows a date of 2008. You weed through it.

You know, I stated my case, and I believe in my experience as well as my research; not only what authorities tell me, but what I've seen with my own eyes.

You seem to have an attachment to the last word on this subject, and an emotional need to be "right." Have at it. I simply disagree with your conclusions. Its all good.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Ah I see. You make the claim but I need to do your research on it? Well, I looked at your site, which itself lists no study on it. It had a little section near the top of the page on thimerosal. It's only mention was to see other sites that have information on it. And if you actually click on one of the links they provide? Oh look at that! It's the website I gave you before! It states such things as "various mercury guidelines are based on epidemiological and laboratory studies of methyl mercury, whereas thimerosal is a derivative of ethyl mercury" and "they are different chemical entities - ethyl- versus methylmercury - different toxicological profiles are expected".

So I ask you for a single study which supports any part of your claim, and you still can't provide one. The CLOSEST you can do is point to a similar yet different compound that has an atom in common. Hey maybe I should start telling people air is toxic because carbon dioxide LOOKS similar to carbon MONoxide. Maybe ethyl alcohol really does cause blindness because METHYL alcohol does?

Once again point being: you're comparing ethylmercury and methylmercury as identical, when they are just as different as ethyl and methyl alcohol: NOT THE SAME. Let me know if you actually find that study. I won't be holding my breath though.

 

[geauxtohell]

9th baby in California dies from whooping cough - CNN.com

As of Tuesday, the state has recorded more illnesses due to whooping cough -- 4,017 -- than in any year since 1955, the department said......

Whooping cough was declared an epidemic in California in June. Peaks in cases of the highly contagious disease cycle every two to five years. California saw its last peak in 2005, with 3,182 cases, according to state health officials.

Vaccination role unclear in whooping cough outbreak

Some doctors relate this recent rise in cases to the parents who have shied away from vaccinating children due to fears, albeit unfounded, that there is a connection between vaccines and autism.

Dr. Jennifer Shu, a pediatrician at Children's Medical Group in Atlanta, Georgia, thinks this is a primary factor in the resurgence of whooping cough.

A 2009 study in Pediatrics found that parental refusal of whooping cough vaccination was associated with children's risk of pertussis infection. Previous research had shown a steady increase of parents who refuse immunization in the last decade.

 

[geauxtohell]

Only one of the things on the list above is found in childhood vaccinations

Yes. The others in that list are in the drinking water, in everyday vitamins, and found in the food we eat. Once again I find myself asking: What's your point?

Every recent study and every doctor at every children's hospital across the country knows beyond any doubt that there is no increased risk of autism from vaccination for the general population. You want to pull a rare genetic mitochondrial disease which needed any of a million exacerbating factors to trigger it as the cause to remove it entirely? Perhaps you have forgotten that measles, mumps, rubella, H.flu, varicella, tetanus, diptheria, polio, strep.pneumo, rotavirus, hepatitis A/B, the common flu, HPV, meningitis, and pertussus are a BIT more common than rare genetic mitochondrial diseases? What do you think the risk-benefit analysis of your ignorance to my evidence would be?

If you're so worried, feel free to ask your doctor for single dose vial vaccinations. They exist.

Why did you truncate my post? It wasn't that long. The requirement for the mercury laced preservative

is SOLELY to save money by packaging them in mult-dose containers rather than single dose containers. The same study you poohed as outdated is listed in the article with more up to date studies.

My kids are grown now, so for me, it isn't an issue beyond making sure their kids don't someday have to go through the same things. Adding vaccinations to the schedule adds exposure incidents to the mercury (because it is still used, even though its under a different name), and public health nurses and doctors need to be aware that "catching up" missed shots (missed because of childhood colds, ear infections etc...) in a single day (my son got 3) increases risk.

It would be nice if it was as simple as "mercury causes autism", because that would be an easy fix.

It's not. It's been extensively studied. When the first study came out that suggested there might be a link and that vaccines should be spaced out, it was quickly disproven and then, in the past year, it was shown to be a complete sham and the author lost his license to practice medicine. Yet, the myth still persists.

 

[geauxtohell]

Which study shows that? This should be interesting.

Mercury Poisoning Symptoms, Causes, Treatment - What about thimerosal in vaccines on MedicineNet

One of the later citations on this list shows a date of 2008. You weed through it.

You know, I stated my case, and I believe in my experience as well as my research; not only what authorities tell me, but what I've seen with my own eyes.

You seem to have an attachment to the last word on this subject, and an emotional need to be "right." Have at it. I simply disagree with your conclusions. Its all good.

And this is the basic problem behind this issue. All the evidence based medicine in the world is trumped by a single anecdote.

People are free to do what they want, but don't act like it's supported by any sort of data. It is not.

It only becomes tragic when kids start to suffer (i.e. from pertussis) from pathologies that are easily avoided by a vaccine because their parents have been mis-informed by ignorant or dishonest hucksters.

 

[Charles_Main]

It's no wonder when the Internet and television airwaves are full of personal stories that raise a question about the link. But the study that started the autism vaccine scare was recently retracted by the prestigious journal that published it 12 years ago, and the lead researcher had his medical license pulled.

Since that time, 18 controlled epidemiological studies have investigated the possible connection between autism and vaccines, and "they have all come back showing the same thing," says Alison Singer, founder and president of the Autism Science Foundation, and a mother of a 13-year-old with autism. "There is no link between vaccines and autism."

Those studies took up two primary theories: Wakefield's (lead publisher in the MMR/Autism study) hypothesis that the MMR vaccine was linked to autism, and another that thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative found in some vaccines, was the culprit.

In a 2004 report analyzing the research into the possible connections, the Institute of Medicine (the organization charged with advising the nation on public health concerns) concluded: "the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship" between both the MMR vaccine and thimerosal, and autism.

That same year, 10 of the 13 authors of the Wakefield study retracted it.

The end of the autism/vaccine debate? - CNN.com

Discuss

The most ridicules thing about this whole debate. Is even if the connection was proven. It is still such a small % that you have a higher risk for your kid to DIE from one of the things he was not vaccinated for than them getting autism in most cases. Also major strides are being made in treating autism. What would you rather have, an autistic child, or a society with Small pox, and other problems because to many people stopped getting shots?

 

[geauxtohell]

It's no wonder when the Internet and television airwaves are full of personal stories that raise a question about the link. But the study that started the autism vaccine scare was recently retracted by the prestigious journal that published it 12 years ago, and the lead researcher had his medical license pulled.

Since that time, 18 controlled epidemiological studies have investigated the possible connection between autism and vaccines, and "they have all come back showing the same thing," says Alison Singer, founder and president of the Autism Science Foundation, and a mother of a 13-year-old with autism. "There is no link between vaccines and autism."

Those studies took up two primary theories: Wakefield's (lead publisher in the MMR/Autism study) hypothesis that the MMR vaccine was linked to autism, and another that thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative found in some vaccines, was the culprit.

In a 2004 report analyzing the research into the possible connections, the Institute of Medicine (the organization charged with advising the nation on public health concerns) concluded: "the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship" between both the MMR vaccine and thimerosal, and autism.

That same year, 10 of the 13 authors of the Wakefield study retracted it.

The end of the autism/vaccine debate? - CNN.com

Discuss

The most ridicules thing about this whole debate. Is even if the connection was proven. It is still such a small % that you have a higher risk for your kid to DIE from one of the things he was not vaccinated for than them getting autism in most cases. Also major strides are being made in treating autism. What would you rather have, an autistic child, or a society with Small pox, and other problems because to many people stopped getting shots?

Even if there were a link (which there is not), the thought of my kid getting intubated or trached because they got epiglottitis from HiB would far outweigh any concerns about autism.

 

[Father Time]

It's no wonder when the Internet and television airwaves are full of personal stories that raise a question about the link. But the study that started the autism vaccine scare was recently retracted by the prestigious journal that published it 12 years ago, and the lead researcher had his medical license pulled.

Since that time, 18 controlled epidemiological studies have investigated the possible connection between autism and vaccines, and "they have all come back showing the same thing," says Alison Singer, founder and president of the Autism Science Foundation, and a mother of a 13-year-old with autism. "There is no link between vaccines and autism."

Those studies took up two primary theories: Wakefield's (lead publisher in the MMR/Autism study) hypothesis that the MMR vaccine was linked to autism, and another that thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative found in some vaccines, was the culprit.

In a 2004 report analyzing the research into the possible connections, the Institute of Medicine (the organization charged with advising the nation on public health concerns) concluded: "the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship" between both the MMR vaccine and thimerosal, and autism.

That same year, 10 of the 13 authors of the Wakefield study retracted it.

The end of the autism/vaccine debate? - CNN.com

Discuss

The most ridicules thing about this whole debate. Is even if the connection was proven. It is still such a small % that you have a higher risk for your kid to DIE from one of the things he was not vaccinated for than them getting autism in most cases. Also major strides are being made in treating autism. What would you rather have, an autistic child, or a society with Small pox, and other problems because to many people stopped getting shots?

[youtube]RfdZTZQvuCo[/youtube]

 

[Againsheila]

It's no wonder when the Internet and television airwaves are full of personal stories that raise a question about the link. But the study that started the autism vaccine scare was recently retracted by the prestigious journal that published it 12 years ago, and the lead researcher had his medical license pulled.

Since that time, 18 controlled epidemiological studies have investigated the possible connection between autism and vaccines, and "they have all come back showing the same thing," says Alison Singer, founder and president of the Autism Science Foundation, and a mother of a 13-year-old with autism. "There is no link between vaccines and autism."

Those studies took up two primary theories: Wakefield's (lead publisher in the MMR/Autism study) hypothesis that the MMR vaccine was linked to autism, and another that thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative found in some vaccines, was the culprit.

In a 2004 report analyzing the research into the possible connections, the Institute of Medicine (the organization charged with advising the nation on public health concerns) concluded: "the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship" between both the MMR vaccine and thimerosal, and autism.

That same year, 10 of the 13 authors of the Wakefield study retracted it.

The end of the autism/vaccine debate? - CNN.com

Discuss

If the vaccines have nothing to do with autism, why the rider attached to the Patriot Act at the last minuted by a senator who then retired, that protects Ely Lily, the makers of thermerosal from being sued specifically for causing autism?

Why do the professionals in the business wait until their kids are 3 to get them vaccinated?

Why don't they tell us this stuff before the vaccines?

 

[geauxtohell]

If the vaccines have nothing to do with autism, why the rider attached to the Patriot Act at the last minuted by a senator who then retired, that protects Ely Lily, the makers of thermerosal from being sued specifically for causing autism?

Why do the professionals in the business wait until their kids are 3 to get them vaccinated?

Why don't they tell us this stuff before the vaccines?

Because, as has been demonstrated in the civil courts and the courts of public opinion, even if something has been 100% disproven by science, you can still lose a lawsuit over it and people will still believe that they know better.

What professionals wait until their kids are 3 to get them vaccinated?

 

[Againsheila]

If the vaccines have nothing to do with autism, why the rider attached to the Patriot Act at the last minuted by a senator who then retired, that protects Ely Lily, the makers of thermerosal from being sued specifically for causing autism?

Why do the professionals in the business wait until their kids are 3 to get them vaccinated?

Why don't they tell us this stuff before the vaccines?

Because, as has been demonstrated in the civil courts and the courts of public opinion, even if something has been 100% disproven by science, you can still lose a lawsuit over it and people will still believe that they know better.

What professionals wait until their kids are 3 to get them vaccinated?

The one's in the autism profession.....you ask them if they had their kids vaccinated and they say yes. You go one step further and ask them when, and they say, they started vaccinating them at the age of 3. Trust me, I've been to enough seminars to know this stuff.

Pregnant women are told not to eat fish because of mercury yet they inject that same mercury directly into the infants, even before they leave the hospital and then they wonder why autism now affects one on 166 people.

 

[geauxtohell]

The one's in the autism profession.....you ask them if they had their kids vaccinated and they say yes. You go one step further and ask them when, and they say, they started vaccinating them at the age of 3. Trust me, I've been to enough seminars to know this stuff.

What the hell is the "autism profession"? As far as I can tell the "autism profession" is the people who make money of of selling people on junk science that vaccines cause autism.

Furthermore, I not going to just "trust you" on anything. Especially if you get your information from seminars.

Pregnant women are told not to eat fish because of mercury yet they inject that same mercury directly into the infants, even before they leave the hospital and then they wonder why autism now affects one on 166 people.

A.) You think a developing fetus is the same as a neonate?

B.) Furthermore, the only vaccination a child gets before they leave the hospital is the HBV vaccine, which does not contain Thimerosol.

Thimerosal in Vaccines

They most likely won't get any Thimerosol until 12 months of age when they get a flu vaccine.

 

[Father Time]

If the vaccines have nothing to do with autism, why the rider attached to the Patriot Act at the last minuted by a senator who then retired, that protects Ely Lily, the makers of thermerosal from being sued specifically for causing autism?

Why do the professionals in the business wait until their kids are 3 to get them vaccinated?

Why don't they tell us this stuff before the vaccines?

Because, as has been demonstrated in the civil courts and the courts of public opinion, even if something has been 100% disproven by science, you can still lose a lawsuit over it and people will still believe that they know better.

What professionals wait until their kids are 3 to get them vaccinated?

The one's in the autism profession.....you ask them if they had their kids vaccinated and they say yes. You go one step further and ask them when, and they say, they started vaccinating them at the age of 3. Trust me, I've been to enough seminars to know this stuff.

Pregnant women are told not to eat fish because of mercury yet they inject that same mercury directly into the infants, even before they leave the hospital and then they wonder why autism now affects one on 166 people.

That's not evidence mercury causes autism.

 

[geauxtohell]

That's not evidence mercury causes autism.

There is evidence that mercury does NOT cause autism though.

Study: No increased autism risk from mercury-based perservative in vaccines – The Chart - CNN.com Blogs

And for people who think the civil courts should decide the science behind this matter:

'Vaccines court' rejects mercury-autism link in 3 test cases - Los Angeles Times

Note the date.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

If the vaccines have nothing to do with autism, why the rider attached to the Patriot Act at the last minuted by a senator who then retired, that protects Ely Lily, the makers of thermerosal from being sued specifically for causing autism?

Why do the professionals in the business wait until their kids are 3 to get them vaccinated?

Why don't they tell us this stuff before the vaccines?

Because it DOESNT cause autism, yet people like you are dumb enough to sue people from legitimate medical practices anyway. And since when and how could politics possibly prove this issue either way?

Which "professionals" wait till age 3? Once again I find myself asking if you have a LICK of support to ANYTHING you think. Ignorance isn't bliss in this case, it's hysterics and horrible diseases affecting our children.

The one's in the autism profession.....you ask them if they had their kids vaccinated and they say yes. You go one step further and ask them when, and they say, they started vaccinating them at the age of 3. Trust me, I've been to enough seminars to know this stuff.

Oh you've went to "seminars"? Lead by who? MDs or PhDs? Or cooks with no degree selling you something? Because I've attended lectures from the leading experts across the country, and have heard the exact opposite of your unsupported claims.

Pregnant women are told not to eat fish because of mercury yet they inject that same mercury directly into the infants, even before they leave the hospital and then they wonder why autism now affects one on 166 people.

Actually, they do NOT inject the same mercury directly into infants OR vaccines. As I just explained in a previous post, thimerosal is a completely different compound from your run of the mill Mercury poisoning. One is the ethyl variety, and one is the methyl type. Similarly, simple alcohol can be divided in the same manner. Methyl alcohol makes people blind. They are NOT the same. Not by structure, not by profile, and not by any evidence we have documented.

 

[geauxtohell]

If the vaccines have nothing to do with autism, why the rider attached to the Patriot Act at the last minuted by a senator who then retired, that protects Ely Lily, the makers of thermerosal from being sued specifically for causing autism?

Why do the professionals in the business wait until their kids are 3 to get them vaccinated?

Why don't they tell us this stuff before the vaccines?

Because it DOESNT cause autism, yet people like you are dumb enough to sue people from legitimate medical practices anyway. And since when and how could politics possibly prove this issue either way?

Which "professionals" wait till age 3? Once again I find myself asking if you have a LICK of support to ANYTHING you think. Ignorance isn't bliss in this case, it's hysterics and horrible diseases affecting our children.

The one's in the autism profession.....you ask them if they had their kids vaccinated and they say yes. You go one step further and ask them when, and they say, they started vaccinating them at the age of 3. Trust me, I've been to enough seminars to know this stuff.

Oh you've went to "seminars"? Lead by who? MDs or PhDs? Or cooks with no degree selling you something? Because I've attended lectures from the leading experts across the country, and have heard the exact opposite of your unsupported claims.

Pregnant women are told not to eat fish because of mercury yet they inject that same mercury directly into the infants, even before they leave the hospital and then they wonder why autism now affects one on 166 people.

Actually, they do NOT inject the same mercury directly into infants OR vaccines. As I just explained in a previous post, thimerosal is a completely different compound from your run of the mill Mercury poisoning. One is the ethyl variety, and one is the methyl type. Similarly, simple alcohol can be divided in the same manner. Methyl alcohol makes people blind. They are NOT the same. Not by structure, not by profile, and not by any evidence we have documented.

Some people would benefit from a semester or two of organic chemistry. Then they'd know that simply changing the charge of a compound by a factor of one greatly changes the way it interacts with the body.

 

[Father Time]

Jenny McCarthy Body Count

Whooping cough is declared an epidemic in California

 

[geauxtohell]

Jenny McCarthy Body Count

Whooping cough is declared an epidemic in California

Good. It's about time people started calling charletons like McCarthy out.

Simply "being a mother" isn't good enough here.

 

[syrenn]

The one's in the autism profession.....you ask them if they had their kids vaccinated and they say yes. You go one step further and ask them when, and they say, they started vaccinating them at the age of 3. Trust me, I've been to enough seminars to know this stuff.

What the hell is the "autism profession"? As far as I can tell the "autism profession" is the people who make money of of selling people on junk science that vaccines cause autism.

Furthermore, I not going to just "trust you" on anything. Especially if you get your information from seminars.

Both of her children have autism...mild to sever. That is what she meant about being in the autism business.

 

[Againsheila]

If the vaccines have nothing to do with autism, why the rider attached to the Patriot Act at the last minuted by a senator who then retired, that protects Ely Lily, the makers of thermerosal from being sued specifically for causing autism?

Why do the professionals in the business wait until their kids are 3 to get them vaccinated?

Why don't they tell us this stuff before the vaccines?

Because it DOESNT cause autism, yet people like you are dumb enough to sue people from legitimate medical practices anyway. And since when and how could politics possibly prove this issue either way?

Which "professionals" wait till age 3? Once again I find myself asking if you have a LICK of support to ANYTHING you think. Ignorance isn't bliss in this case, it's hysterics and horrible diseases affecting our children.

The one's in the autism profession.....you ask them if they had their kids vaccinated and they say yes. You go one step further and ask them when, and they say, they started vaccinating them at the age of 3. Trust me, I've been to enough seminars to know this stuff.

Oh you've went to "seminars"? Lead by who? MDs or PhDs? Or cooks with no degree selling you something? Because I've attended lectures from the leading experts across the country, and have heard the exact opposite of your unsupported claims.

Pregnant women are told not to eat fish because of mercury yet they inject that same mercury directly into the infants, even before they leave the hospital and then they wonder why autism now affects one on 166 people.

Actually, they do NOT inject the same mercury directly into infants OR vaccines. As I just explained in a previous post, thimerosal is a completely different compound from your run of the mill Mercury poisoning. One is the ethyl variety, and one is the methyl type. Similarly, simple alcohol can be divided in the same manner. Methyl alcohol makes people blind. They are NOT the same. Not by structure, not by profile, and not by any evidence we have documented.

I have attended many seminars, almost all of which have lectures by doctors, psychiatrists, etc. And yes, the people in the business will tell you on the books that it isn't the vaccines, but off the books, it's another story. Let's face it, our government wants our kids taking those vaccines and they will do all in the power to make sure that happens.

I have two children on both ends of the autism spectrum and until the Patriot act, I didn't think it was the vaccines...but face it, we already have a law that requires those who bring nuisance lawsuits to pay for all the court costs, there was no excuse for that rider protecting Ely Lilly, unless they actually did cause autism and it wasn't a coincidence that the politician responsible retired right after.

You can believe as you wish, but you aren't dealing with autism on a day to day basis, you haven't studied it like I have and you didn't make the mistake of getting all the pertinent vaccines at once instead of one at a time. I would have done things much differently if I had another chance. Do I feel guilty? HELL YEAH!!!!!

As for those who claim that the vaccines don't give everyone Autism, smoking doesn't give everyone lung cancer but that doesn't mean it's not responsible for lung cancer.

I advise all new parents to wait until their children are 3, then get the vaccines one at a time. Don't listen to people like Hick as they don't know what they are talking about. Autism is a lifelong illness, there is no remission, there is no cure and you don't want that hanging over your head.