The Business of Government is to Promote Happiness or Business?

[OnePercenter]

And like I told you, the issue of whether I agreed to pay taxes doesn't come up in a court of law because paying taxes isn't a contractual obligation. The judge doesn't give a shit whether you agreed to it or not. You're the one claiming I agreed, not some judge or the legal code of the United States.

An implied contract?

 

[OnePercenter]

Those who are capable of committing logic understand that the laws of economics don't change over time. Ignoramuses, on the other hand, don't care.

WTF are you writing about.

 

[OnePercenter]

What hole did you pull this $600 trillion figure out of? Don't tell me . . . I know . . . your ass.

If it's not $600 Trillion, then how much was it?

 

[dblack]

Utilitarianism always struck me as fundamentally pointless for exactly this reason. It's certainly not anything I want government to follow.

You find it pointless for government to maximize the utility of the greatest number of its citizens?

Yes, because happiness and utility are completely subjective.

 

[dblack]

bread and circuses proves the right has been wrong about a welfare-State, from Inception.

Hmm. How do you mean?

 

[Iceweasel]

Yes, because happiness and utility are completely subjective.

But government can beat you until your attitude improves.

 

[dblack]

Government doesn't plan the economy under socialism; workers do.

How?

 

[bripat9643]

And like I told you, the issue of whether I agreed to pay taxes doesn't come up in a court of law because paying taxes isn't a contractual obligation. The judge doesn't give a shit whether you agreed to it or not. You're the one claiming I agreed, not some judge or the legal code of the United States.

An implied contract?

There is no contract, implied or otherwise. Even an implied contract requires your explicit consent.

 

[bripat9643]

What hole did you pull this $600 trillion figure out of? Don't tell me . . . I know . . . your ass.

If it's not $600 Trillion, then how much was it?

How much is what?

 

[OnePercenter]

There is no contract, implied or otherwise. Even an implied contract requires your explicit consent.

An implied contract is an agreement created by actions of the parties involved. It is not written or spoken so how can there be explicit consent.

 

[OnePercenter]

What hole did you pull this $600 trillion figure out of? Don't tell me . . . I know . . . your ass.

If it's not $600 Trillion, then how much was it?

How much is what?

What we're discussing.

 

[georgephillip]

es, because happiness and utility are completely subjective.

It seems that way today; however, the notion of maximizing the greatest happiness for the greatest number comes straight from the Enlightenment's early quest to apply the scientific method to politics:
"Professor Shapiro continues his examination of Jeremy Bentham's formulation of classical utilitarianism, with a focus on the distributive implications of the theory of 'maximizing the greatest happiness of the greatest number.'

"He engages students in a discussion of a guiding principle of classical utilitarianism, the principle of diminishing marginal utility, and some traditional critiques of this principle.

"Professor Shapiro examines the capacity of classical utilitarianism as a radically redistributive doctrine.

"Bentham himself tried to avoid this consequence with his argument that the rich would burn their crops before giving them away, and he differentiated between 'absolute" and "practical' equality.

"Professor Shapiro connects all of these concepts to Reagan's tax cuts of the 1980s, pre- and post-apartheid South Africa, and contemporary debates about economic stimulus."
Open Yale Courses The Moral Foundations of Politics Lecture 5 - Classical Utilitarianism and Distributive Justice

 

[georgephillip]

Government doesn't plan the economy under socialism; workers do.

How?

Worker self directed enterprises modeled on Worker Soviets from the Russian Revolution might explain how all workers could plan an economy someday.
"Workers’ Self-Directed Enterprises (WSDE’s): WSDE’s are enterprises in which all the workers who collaborate to produce its outputs also serve together, collectively as its board of directors.

"Each worker in any WSDE thus has two job descriptions: (1) a particular task in the enterprise’s division of labor, and (2) full participation in the directorial decisions governing what, how and where to produce and how to use the enterprise’s surplus or profits.

"Simply put, in place of a hierarchical, undemocratic, capitalist production organization giving those decisions exclusively to a small minority – major shareholders and the board of directors – WSDE’s institutionalize democracy at work as the economy’s central principle and society’s new foundation.
About DAW 8211 What is DAW Democracy At Work

 

[The2ndAmendment]

The Purpose of the US Government is made clear in Article IV, Section 4, of the United States Government.

 

[Dad2three]

The Purpose of the US Government is made clear in Article IV, Section 4, of the United States Government.

Part of it, yes. Other parts:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity



....Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

The Purpose of the US Government is made clear in Article IV, Section 4, of the United States Government.

Part of it, yes. Other parts:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity



....Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

That isn't the Purpose of the US Government, that's the Powers of the US Government that may be used to fulfill the Purpose and Obligations of the US Government.

You don't actually think that TAXING is Purpose of a government, correct? It's a power/tool of a government to fulfill its purpose.

 

[dblack]

"Simply put, in place of a hierarchical, undemocratic, capitalist production organization giving those decisions exclusively to a small minority – major shareholders and the board of directors – WSDE’s institutionalize democracy at work as the economy’s central principle and society’s new foundation.

And you envision doing that without laws mandating compliance?

 

[ALL SOLUTIONS]

For Jeremy Bentham the answer was happiness which he defined as the overall happiness created for everyone affected by an action.
"I. The business of government is to promote the happiness of the society, by punishing and rewarding. That part of its business which consists in punishing, is more particularly the subject of penal law. In proportion as an act tends to disturb that happiness, in proportion as the tendency of it is pernicious, will be the demand it creates for punishment. What happiness consists of we have already seen: enjoyment of pleasures, security from pains."
Jeremy Bentham An Introduction to the Principles of Morals and Legislation Chapter VII Library of Economics and Liberty

Where did you get the picture?

I know it is not on point but I just had to ask.

 

[Dad2three]

The Purpose of the US Government is made clear in Article IV, Section 4, of the United States Government.

Part of it, yes. Other parts:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity



....Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

That isn't the Purpose of the US Government, that's the Powers of the US Government that may be used to fulfill the Purpose and Obligations of the US Government.

You don't actually think that TAXING is Purpose of a government, correct? It's a power/tool of a government to fulfill its purpose.

'We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity'

 

[The2ndAmendment]

'We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity'

Did I disagree with that part? Part of the Preamble is rephrased in Article IV, Section 4.

However, you seem to believe that Taxing is the Purpose of government.