The Business of Government is to Promote Happiness or Business?

[Dad2three]

'We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity'

Did I disagree with that part? Part of the Preamble is rephrased in Article IV, Section 4.

However, you seem to believe that Taxing is the Purpose of government.

Taxing's just a MEANS for the first part. Thanks for agreeing

 

[bripat9643]

What hole did you pull this $600 trillion figure out of? Don't tell me . . . I know . . . your ass.

If it's not $600 Trillion, then how much was it?

How much is what?

What we're discussing.

What do you think we're discussing?

 

[georgephillip]

And you envision doing that without laws mandating compliance?

No.
I would expect government to provide civil and legal protections without engaging in any central economic planning; although, I wonder if that would include a central bank?

 

[dblack]

And you envision doing that without laws mandating compliance?

No.
I would expect government to provide civil and legal protections without engaging in any central economic planning; although, I wonder if that would include a central bank?

I wonder what that could possibly mean. Workers have the right to run their own businesses now, so I'm not sure what changes would be necessary to facilitate your vision.

 

[georgephillip]

I wonder what that could possibly mean. Workers have the right to run their own businesses now, so I'm not sure what changes would be necessary to facilitate your vision.

Workers have the right to start their own business, but if they choose to sell their labor to another, they don't receive the full value of their toil. Mondragon is one of the best examples of an alternative concept that I'm aware of:
"Noted poverty expert and sociology professor Barbara J. Peters of Southampton College, Long Island University, has studied the incorporated and entirely resident-owned town of Mondragón. 'In Mondragón, I saw no signs of poverty. I saw no signs of extreme wealth,' Peters said. 'I saw people looking out for each other…..It's a caring form of capitalism.'”[1
Mondrag n - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[dblack]

I wonder what that could possibly mean. Workers have the right to run their own businesses now, so I'm not sure what changes would be necessary to facilitate your vision.

Workers have the right to start their own business, but if they choose to sell their labor to another, they don't receive the full value of their toil.

They don't? Who says?

 

[rightwinger]

And you envision doing that without laws mandating compliance?

No.
I would expect government to provide civil and legal protections without engaging in any central economic planning; although, I wonder if that would include a central bank?

The purpose of the government is to do what needs doing

 

[dblack]

And you envision doing that without laws mandating compliance?

No.
I would expect government to provide civil and legal protections without engaging in any central economic planning; although, I wonder if that would include a central bank?

The purpose of the government is to do what needs doing

LOL... nice!

 

[georgephillip]

Where did you get the picture?

I know it is not on point but I just had to ask.

usc football stadium - Google Search

 

[georgephillip]

They don't? Who says?

"
Karl Marx[edit]
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"Contrary to popular belief,[39] Marx opposed 'ascribing a supernatural creative power to labor', arguing that:

"Labor is not the source of all wealth. Nature is just as much a source of use values (and it is surely of such that material wealth consists!) as labor, which is itself only the manifestation of a force of nature, human labor power"

Labor theory of value - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

The purpose of the government is to do what needs doing

If you had to choose...

???

 

[dblack]

They don't? Who says?

"
Karl Marx[edit]
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"Contrary to popular belief,[39] Marx opposed 'ascribing a supernatural creative power to labor', arguing that:

"Labor is not the source of all wealth. Nature is just as much a source of use values (and it is surely of such that material wealth consists!) as labor, which is itself only the manifestation of a force of nature, human labor power"

Labor theory of value - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure how that answers my question. The point is that the "value" of labor is a subjective quality. There's no objectively derivable "full" value of labor. Labor is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it.

 

[Dad2three]

They don't? Who says?

"
Karl Marx[edit]
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"Contrary to popular belief,[39] Marx opposed 'ascribing a supernatural creative power to labor', arguing that:

"Labor is not the source of all wealth. Nature is just as much a source of use values (and it is surely of such that material wealth consists!) as labor, which is itself only the manifestation of a force of nature, human labor power"

Labor theory of value - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure how that answers my question. The point is that the "value" of labor is a subjective quality. There's no objectively derivable "full" value of labor. Labor is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it.

 

[georgephillip]

'm not sure how that answers my question. The point is that the "value" of labor is a subjective quality. There's no objectively derivable "full" value of labor. Labor is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it.

Does that mean human labor is not superior in value to capital or land?

 

[dblack]

'm not sure how that answers my question. The point is that the "value" of labor is a subjective quality. There's no objectively derivable "full" value of labor. Labor is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it.

Does that mean human labor is not superior in value to capital or land?

How do you mean? They're different things. How would you be comparing them?

 

[georgephillip]

How do you mean? They're different things. How would you be comparing them?

As classical factors of production.

Isn't labor deserving of more rights than land and capital?

 

[bripat9643]

They don't? Who says?

"
Karl Marx[edit]
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"Contrary to popular belief,[39] Marx opposed 'ascribing a supernatural creative power to labor', arguing that:

"Labor is not the source of all wealth. Nature is just as much a source of use values (and it is surely of such that material wealth consists!) as labor, which is itself only the manifestation of a force of nature, human labor power"

Labor theory of value - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure how that answers my question. The point is that the "value" of labor is a subjective quality. There's no objectively derivable "full" value of labor. Labor is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it.

FDR was the biggest scumbag ever to be elected, so quoting him doesn't lend your position credibility.

 

[rightwinger]

The purpose of the government is to do what needs doing

If you had to choose...

???

Why not a combination of both?

The collective power of government can allow us services at much lower rates than we could get on our own. It is the power of belonging to a society
In our day to day lives....might as well leave us alone

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

The business of a Democrat controlled government is to make it as hard as possible for a business in the private sector to succeed.
The purpose of a Democrat controlled government is to impose as many taxes as possible in order to force people to be dependent
on government thereby keeping Democrats in power.

Yet businesses do better under Democratic control

So our economy is thriving more today then when the Republican controlled Congress and Democrat President Bill Clinton had to find a way to compromise and work together? I think the facts speaks for themselves.

 

[bripat9643]

The purpose of the government is to do what needs doing

If you had to choose...

???

Why not a combination of both?

The collective power of government can allow us services at much lower rates than we could get on our own. It is the power of belonging to a society
In our day to day lives....might as well leave us alone

Why not mix poison with your cereal? That's the pragmatic solution to breakfast, isn't it?

The government has never provided any service cheaper than private enterprise.