The Big Flaw in Libertarianism

Discussion in 'Politics' started by IndependntLogic, May 22, 2012.

  1. IndependntLogic
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    IndependntLogic Senior Member

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    There is a theory that seems almost holy to Libertarians and which many posters dodge like hell. So if there are any Libertarians who would like to take a crack at responding directly to a point, I'd like to hear their views. Of course, if they all use the same dodges and analogies I got from another Libertarian, then quit asking why no one takes you guys seriously.
    Here it the central economic theory I've heard from Libertarians and why I dispute it:

    "The Market Will Correct Itself". They claim if a company is not nice, people won't buy its' products and services, they won't work there and The Magical Market will make the bad ol' company go away! Wrong. It doesn't.
    Without government regulation, companies hurt people (e.g. unsafe working conditions, denial of health benefits, toxic dumping, unsafe oil rigs etc...).
    They make harmful products (e.g. dangrous drugs, cars that blow up etc...).
    They treat employees horribly (e.g. discrimination, wrongful term, etc...).
    And no - those companies don't disappear if they are bad because "the Magical Market Corrects All".
    The Market does little to correct anything a company does, once it gets big enough. That's just plain fact.
    So the biggest flaw I find in Libertarianism is the belief that companies will regulate themselves, if simply left alone. History proves this is not the case.

    This is why a strong centralized government and reasonable level of regulation is necessary to the well-being of citizenry.

    I would welcome any commentary from Libertarians on this and will not stoop to the petty insults, labeling etc... that the weak use as their only means of debate. However, I will challenge you if your reasoning is flawed! Cheers, FS
     
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  2. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    THAT is what you complain about Libertarians? You don't care that they believe no Government above County level should have any power? That no criminal laws should exist and that local courts should hear all cases as if they were personal liability claims?
     
  3. M14 Shooter
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    M14 Shooter The Light of Truth

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    Prove it. Be sure to use current examples.
     
  4. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    History proves that government will jump in before the process can take place. A strong centralized government is only necessary to control business AND citizens. Not a good trade off.

    You hardly seem prepared to debate honestly, if you reread your post.
     
  5. Misty
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    Misty Gold Member

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    The market will correct itself but sometimes it takes a while and yes people get taken advantage of but we are cavemen after all, we are lucky we are as decent as we are, but I watched many companies evolve into money makers.

    That's what it is all about, money, to corporations and to the government.

    The control of regulation is all about money too, Pay fines, fees, taxes.
     
  6. IndependntLogic
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    IndependntLogic Senior Member

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    Be happy to.
    BP
    Pacific Gas & Electric
    Skadden Arps
    General Electric
    Exxon
    Ford
    GM
    Chrysler
    Pfizer
    Eli Lilly
    Kaiser
    Blue Cross
    Most of the Fortune 100
    Which of those countries has been found guilty in a court of law, for harming or killing people.
    Multiple times.
    All of them.
    Which did the Magial Market make disappear?
    None of them.

    I look forward to your fact-filled and civil response.

    Thank you for your service, btw.
     
  7. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    How could he use current examples when the market is heavily regulated now? One can point to a need for some Government involvement even currently. Housing crash comes to mind as well as banks almost folding.

    But the biggest evidence of a need for some Government regulation is going to be BEFORE the Government got involved.

    The argument no longer is that the Government should not be involved, but rather to what extent.

    As I get the jest of this he takes exception to the clam by Libertarians NO Government involvement is needed and is asking for a debate on that claim.

    My personal opinion is it is a waste of time debating with Libertarians because they are fools on the issue.

    No sane person can actually argue that no Government involvement is needed in the business world. All one need do is go back in history to when that was true for absolute evidence of a need for some regulation.

    As to the specific claim that in all cases the market will correct itself, that does not apply to all the things that business does nor apply to the need for some regulation by the Government.

    My problem with the specific poster in this case is that he appears to believe that ONLY the Government can save us from the evil Business people. SO basically one extreme of the issue is asking to debate the other extreme. And we all know how that will turn out.
     
  8. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    Bank customers have been quite successful recently with getting fees eliminated before government could even begin to act. This shows that massive, quick reactions by customers do have a big impact.
     
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  9. Lonestar_logic
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    Lonestar_logic Republic of Texas

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    So none of the examples you cited had any government oversight?

    It was strictly the market regulating itself?


    I think not.
     
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  10. Avorysuds
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    Avorysuds Gold Member

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    How many of the companies you just listed receive tax payer money? They are no longer in that realm of “privet sector”. In fact you just destroyed Government intervention as the answer.

    To answer your question, Unions… Unions are the answer or at least one of the answers. People don’t like the companies so they banded together and demanded better conditions, products, pay, retirement and so on.

    Public Unions are entirely different and Unions in general have a course that they will run. At first a Union can be very good, but like any business at some point Unions can be doing more harm than good.

    There, you have been schooled.

    Bye…
     

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