The Battle Between Faith And Reason

[Hollie]

Do you even logic? To you there is no such thing as morality or right and wrong. To you those are human constructs. To you there is only pleasure and pain.

I do believe there is right and wrong and yes, they are human constructs.

So THAT'S why you accept infanticide.

You simply have on concept of right and wrong.

"
So THAT'S why you accept infanticide.

You simply have on concept of right and wrong."


Neither do you.

You have already admitted that you need a handbook (the bible) to tell you RIGHT from WRONG. Apparently without that book you'd kill, steal, cheat......

Now let's see what I actually posted.

"This is the great contribution of our Judeo-Christian foundation to Western civilization. The principles of justice are laid down in the Torah and the Gospels, and implemented through human actions memorialized in judicial codes.

The written laws and rules are codifications of the unwritten ones worked out over millennia as the result of human interactions and experience."
David Mamet




The Left says of the Right, “You fools, it is demonstrable that dinosaurs lived one hundred million years ago, I can prove it to you, how can you say the earth was created in 4000BCE?” But this supposed intransigence on the part of the Religious Right is far less detrimental to the health of the body politic than the Left’s love affair with Marxism, Socialism, Racialism, the Command Economy, all of which have been proven via one hundred years of evidence shows only shortages, despotism and murder.
Mamet.



You Marxists use an entirely different ''handbook"....one what caused over 100 million deaths in the last century alone.

Proud of it, mud????

"The written laws and rules are codifications of the unwritten ones worked out over millennia as the result of human interactions and experience."
David Mamet"

So, we can take this mean that your gawds are superfluous.

 

[ding]

Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos.

I really believe you're living in a fantasy world. Can you provide examples of these virtuous and non-virtuous societies? I'd bet I could provide an equal number that prove this false.

You can see the exact same results in your personal life, Alan.

I was confident you couldn't back up your fantasy with any real-world examples. As for me, you quite wrong. I don't consider myself particularly virtuous but I have a great job, a great family, and a great set of friends. I see plenty of people more virtuous struggling.

History is full of examples. In fact pretty much every society or nation that has failed is an example. But if you can’t believe it because you weren’t spoon fed it, that’s on you.

I agree that you are not particularly virtuous. I doubt you don’t have much drama in your life.

 

[ding]

What I don't like are arrogant people who think they know more about me than I do.

The power of observation and deduction is strong.

So is the power of self-delusion apparently.

You should know.

 

[ding]

I am saying in your world view there is no room for morality. Only pleasure and pain.

Yet I have repeatedly said I am a moral person. It is your world view that has no room for any morality but your own. That seems immoral to me...

You have no basis for moral. All you can know is pleasure and pain.

Are you telling me you believe you have a higher purpose?

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Faith is only reasonable if the probability of cause & effect is high based on observational or other objective evidence.

Religions are not reasonable.
Scientific investigations are.

 

[alang1216]

You have no basis for moral. All you can know is pleasure and pain.

Are you telling me you believe you have a higher purpose?

You tell me, you obviously know everything about me already.

 

[Hollie]

Faith is only reasonable if the probability of cause & effect is high based on observational or other objective evidence.

Religions are not reasonable.
Scientific investigations are.

I agree with a slight modification. Religion served a purpose in the early development of humankind, but we are in a transition away from the superstitious beliefs thanks to the ever exploding, impossible-to-refute success of science and knowledge. The idea that science and reason are less “moral” is bigotry and self-imposed blindness. The problem is not science and technology which is actually sweepingly majestic, but in the perception of people being trained to think feelings and superstitious belief are more reliable than reason.

 

[anynameyouwish]

I am saying in your world view there is no room for morality. Only pleasure and pain.

Yet I have repeatedly said I am a moral person. It is your world view that has no room for any morality but your own. That seems immoral to me...

You have no basis for moral. All you can know is pleasure and pain.

Are you telling me you believe you have a higher purpose?

I'm telling you that YOU have no higher purpose.

Or do you consider wasting hours on this message board arguing nonsense " a higher purpose"?

 

[ding]

You have no basis for moral. All you can know is pleasure and pain.

Are you telling me you believe you have a higher purpose?

You tell me, you obviously know everything about me already.

Not according to your world view.

There’s no grand purpose, right?

 

[ding]

I am saying in your world view there is no room for morality. Only pleasure and pain.

Yet I have repeatedly said I am a moral person. It is your world view that has no room for any morality but your own. That seems immoral to me...

You have no basis for moral. All you can know is pleasure and pain.

Are you telling me you believe you have a higher purpose?

I'm telling you that YOU have no higher purpose.

Or do you consider wasting hours on this message board arguing nonsense " a higher purpose"?

My purpose is to progress.

To an atheist there is no purpose; there is no right and wrong. There is only pain and pleasure.

 

[alang1216]

Not according to your world view.

There’s no grand purpose, right?

Since you insist on telling me what my worldview is, let me return the favor.

Your grand purpose is to die.

 

[ding]

Not according to your world view.

There’s no grand purpose, right?

Since you insist on telling me what my worldview is, let me return the favor.

Your grand purpose is to die.

No one gets out alive, Al.

But now that you mention it, if it were as atheists believe that man is born only to experience earthly pleasures, he wouldn’t be destined to die. Therefore, his purpose must be something more than enjoying pleasure and avoiding pain.

 

[alang1216]

Not according to your world view.

There’s no grand purpose, right?

Since you insist on telling me what my worldview is, let me return the favor.

Your grand purpose is to die.

No one gets out alive, Al.

But now that you mention it, if it were as atheists believe that man is born only to experience earthly pleasures, he wouldn’t be destined to die. Therefore, his purpose must be something more than enjoying pleasure and avoiding pain.

Maybe the difference between us is this: your goal is to die, my goal is to live.

 

[ding]

Not according to your world view.

There’s no grand purpose, right?

Since you insist on telling me what my worldview is, let me return the favor.

Your grand purpose is to die.

No one gets out alive, Al.

But now that you mention it, if it were as atheists believe that man is born only to experience earthly pleasures, he wouldn’t be destined to die. Therefore, his purpose must be something more than enjoying pleasure and avoiding pain.

Maybe the difference between us is this: your goal is to die, my goal is to live.

Wrong. It’s all about the journey. That’s why it was called the way.

You are here because something is missing in your life.

 

[alang1216]

Maybe the difference between us is this: your goal is to die, my goal is to live.

Wrong. It’s all about the journey. That’s why it was called the way.

You are here because something is missing in your life.

No I'm right, you're deluding yourself. The goal of your journey is death. You believe this life is just a blip in your timeline, a test like taking the SATs, since you'll be dead a lot longer than you'll be alive. You believe there is nothing in this life that is as important as the next.

Again you're wrong, I'm here because there is something missing in your life.

 

[ding]

Maybe the difference between us is this: your goal is to die, my goal is to live.

Wrong. It’s all about the journey. That’s why it was called the way.

You are here because something is missing in your life.

No I'm right, you're deluding yourself. The goal of your journey is death. You believe this life is just a blip in your timeline, a test like taking the SATs, since you'll be dead a lot longer than you'll be alive. You believe there is nothing in this life that is as important as the next.

Again you're wrong, I'm here because there is something missing in your life.

That’s funny because all I ever discuss is life.

It’s the militant atheists that think faith is about death. In fact, you are proving my point right now.

 

[alang1216]

That’s funny because all I ever discuss is life.

It’s the militant atheists that think faith is about death. In fact, you are proving my point right now.

You believe life is just the dues you have to pay before you're allowed to die since that is when the fun really begins. You believe your only reason for living is to be judged at your death. Sad.

 

[ding]

That’s funny because all I ever discuss is life.

It’s the militant atheists that think faith is about death. In fact, you are proving my point right now.

You believe life is just the dues you have to pay before you're allowed to die since that is when the fun really begins. You believe your only reason for living is to be judged at your death. Sad.

Not true. I believe life is the rarest and most precious gift we are given.

Life should be experienced to its fullest and shared.

 

[alang1216]

Not true. I believe life is the rarest and most precious gift we are given.

Actually, you don't believe that at all. Since you expect to be in heaven for eternity, this life has almost no value. If you really loved your children you'd kill them as babies, right after baptizing them but before they have a chance to sin and run the risk of hell.

 

[ding]

Not true. I believe life is the rarest and most precious gift we are given.

Actually, you don't believe that at all. Since you expect to be in heaven for eternity, this life has almost no value. If you really loved your children you'd kill them as babies, right after baptizing them but before they have a chance to sin and run the risk of hell.

It is because we live forever that life has value.

Imagine spending eternity regretting instead of celebrating.