The attempt to refrain the gun control debate

[Valerie]

People who fly on planes are more likely to die in plane crashes too... That is, more likely than those who do not fly on planes, naturally they would never die in a plane crash.

So I wonder, is that stat saying that people who own guns are more like to die at the hands of a gun than by any other means, or more likely than those who do not own a gun?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Let me just say that, as a parent, I would be thrilled to know that my child's teacher will defend him with her life. But I would be more thrilled to know that she will defend him with a gun.

The idea of requiring teachers to be armed is silly nonsense...

Who is saying we should require it?

Apparently, the stupid, mooing cow thinks I'M saying it. I'm not, but what can you expect from bovine intelligence?

 

[uscitizen]

There is lot that can be done short of banning firearms. I went to a PTA meeting at my grand-kids school last year. One of the speakers described the emergency planning being done which included school emergencies drills, better and faster lock-downs and improved communications. These can help limit damage, but you're right, there is no way to stop the violence.

Although this was a horrible tragedy, I think we need to keep things in prospective. There was about 60 school shootings this year in 7 schools. In the US we have 50 millions students in 100,000 public schools.

And how many buildings did we have on 9-11 that did not get hit by airplanes?

 

[Paulie]

I have been listening to the pundits talk about the need to get guns out of the hands of crazy people, and how happy they are that Obama said something needs to be done to stop tragedies like the one today. What, exactly, are the alternatives? We have no way to determine if someone is going to flip out and go on a shooting spree. Even if we did, what are we going to do? If we put them in a database that prevents them from buying a gun what is to stop them from stealing one? Should we require everyone to be tested, and lock everyone who the tests identify as a danger up? Do we really want to create a society that locks people up because they might do something?

The way I see it is we have two choices, either deny everyone freedom, or accept the fact that crazy people are going to do crazy things. If anyone has an actual alternative to those options I would love to hear it.

Are you for real? There nothing impossible about banning anything shorter than a hunting rifle, all semiautomatics and high-capacity magazines. And making licensing of the rest hard and expensive, so only determined hunters could get it.

Then if you are a homicidal maniac, where would steal your gun from? Police?

Yeah I know I'll sleep better at night knowing kindergarteners can only be shot with rifles and pistols

 

[lolhahaha]

Are you for real? There nothing impossible about banning anything shorter than a hunting rifle, all semiautomatics and high-capacity magazines. And making licensing of the rest hard and expensive, so only determined hunters could get it.

Then if you are a homicidal maniac, where would steal your gun from? Police?

Because other illegal things such as: Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroin, are so hard for criminals to get. Lets go and give them control of most weapons too so their organizations will hold 100x of times more power.

 

[Paulie]

The idea of requiring teachers to be armed is silly nonsense...

She said nothing about requiring it.

But it should be an option for those teachers who want to undergo the training.

My proposal is for each school to have a trained first-response team of teachers. They would all be volunteers, and they would all undergo training with the weapons and qualify with them regularly, the way law enforcement and military do. They would carry the weapons on their persons while at the school, so as to be ready to immediately deal with any threat that was posed without having to hassle with going back to their rooms and unlocking a desk or a safe before proceeding to the danger.

There's no way you'll ever get the requisite amount of constituent support for firearms being in the same room as their children.

 

[Valerie]

I saw a few people in the other thread say it and Cecilie has been spewing in several threads on this topic, which I haven't bothered to read all of her posts so I don't know whether she did. Funny you think it matters? For starters, you can go back and read my post you responded to and find that I did not even say that she did. Then you can go to the other thread and see for yourself.



http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/267585-elementary-school-shooting.html#post6493814

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...school-shooting-time-to-arm-the-teachers.html

Okay, others have advocated it. My apologies.

Since it wasn't me, though, it's still irrelevant in responding to MY posts. So you were correct in that.

In this thread you were the one who brought up the teacher being armed and protecting your child, so I addressed the topic of armed teachers in response to your post. My post addressed the topic and was not all about you, so get over yourself...

 

[Valerie]

Yea for the fuking NRA gun nuts right here.
You all keep on doing nothing about this type of situation and conceed the gun control debate to the crazy killers and the Democrats.
You gun nuts will not like the way the debate goes if you all are not willing to do anything to help. Or at least LOOK like you are doing something to help.

I think there have been a lot of solid suggestions from the gun rights advocates about how to deal with this. Unfortunately, the gun control nutcases think the only solution is restricting gun rights.

That's because they're not trying to solve the problem of stopping school shootings or making our children safer. They're trying to solve the problem of creating an ideal leftist world where guns don't exist.

The mysterious "they" huh?



I should hold you to your own standards but meh, you're a just another blowhard bore...

 

[KissMy]

I've been held at gunpoint 5 times by 7 different people with 7 different guns. It was illegal for them to do that to me every time. 4 out of those 5 times were in places where it was illegal for me or them to carry a gun, so I did not have one. Now that it is legal for me to have a gun, I have never had a gun pulled on me since. I know first hand for a fact that I am safer when everyone is allowed to be armed. Laws don't stop criminals, armed citizens do!

 

[uscitizen]

I've been held at gunpoint 5 times by 7 different people with 7 different guns. It was illegal for them to do that to me every time. 4 out of those 5 times were in places where it was illegal for me or them to carry a gun, so I did not have one. Now that it is legal for me to have a gun, I have never had a gun pulled on me since. I know first hand for a fact that I am safer when everyone is allowed to be armed.

Amazing, I am an old fart and have never been held at gun point, well outside of being shot at in nam.

Perhaps you habits and lifestyle are an issue? not guns.

 

[KissMy]

I've been held at gunpoint 5 times by 7 different people with 7 different guns. It was illegal for them to do that to me every time. 4 out of those 5 times were in places where it was illegal for me or them to carry a gun, so I did not have one. Now that it is legal for me to have a gun, I have never had a gun pulled on me since. I know first hand for a fact that I am safer when everyone is allowed to be armed.

Amazing, I am an old fart and have never been held at gun point, well outside of being shot at in nam.

Perhaps you habits and lifestyle are an issue? not guns.

Thats what my friends & family always told me until they were with me once when it happened to us all. Now that BS discussion does not come up any more.

 

[Mr Natural]

I've been held at gunpoint 5 times by 7 different people with 7 different guns. It was illegal for them to do that to me every time. 4 out of those 5 times were in places where it was illegal for me or them to carry a gun, so I did not have one. Now that it is legal for me to have a gun, I have never had a gun pulled on me since. I know first hand for a fact that I am safer when everyone is allowed to be armed. Laws don't stop criminals, armed citizens do!

Good grief, who are you, James Bond?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

She said nothing about requiring it.

But it should be an option for those teachers who want to undergo the training.

My proposal is for each school to have a trained first-response team of teachers. They would all be volunteers, and they would all undergo training with the weapons and qualify with them regularly, the way law enforcement and military do. They would carry the weapons on their persons while at the school, so as to be ready to immediately deal with any threat that was posed without having to hassle with going back to their rooms and unlocking a desk or a safe before proceeding to the danger.

There's no way you'll ever get the requisite amount of constituent support for firearms being in the same room as their children.

They have a problem with police being in the same room as their kids?

 

[Cecilie1200]

My proposal is for each school to have a trained first-response team of teachers. They would all be volunteers, and they would all undergo training with the weapons and qualify with them regularly, the way law enforcement and military do. They would carry the weapons on their persons while at the school, so as to be ready to immediately deal with any threat that was posed without having to hassle with going back to their rooms and unlocking a desk or a safe before proceeding to the danger.

There's no way you'll ever get the requisite amount of constituent support for firearms being in the same room as their children.

They have a problem with police being in the same room as their kids?

Maybe they think the cops take off their guns and leave them at the principal's office when they visit classrooms?

No, what it is is that they somehow think law enforcement personnel are grown in special law-enforcement farms, and are therefore different from regular people.

 

[JoeB131]

I have been listening to the pundits talk about the need to get guns out of the hands of crazy people, and how happy they are that Obama said something needs to be done to stop tragedies like the one today. What, exactly, are the alternatives? We have no way to determine if someone is going to flip out and go on a shooting spree. Even if we did, what are we going to do? If we put them in a database that prevents them from buying a gun what is to stop them from stealing one? Should we require everyone to be tested, and lock everyone who the tests identify as a danger up? Do we really want to create a society that locks people up because they might do something?

The way I see it is we have two choices, either deny everyone freedom, or accept the fact that crazy people are going to do crazy things. If anyone has an actual alternative to those options I would love to hear it.

1) Rigorous screening for anyone who wants to buy a new gun.
2) Licenses that need to be renewed for everyone who already has one.
3) Give the ATF some real teeth when going after those who don't comply with the law.

Look, every other industrialized nation except ours limits who can own a gun, they are every bit as free as we are (maybe more so in some respects) and they have a fraction of the gun deaths we have.

This is not rocket science.

 

[KissMy]

I've been held at gunpoint 5 times by 7 different people with 7 different guns. It was illegal for them to do that to me every time. 4 out of those 5 times were in places where it was illegal for me or them to carry a gun, so I did not have one. Now that it is legal for me to have a gun, I have never had a gun pulled on me since. I know first hand for a fact that I am safer when everyone is allowed to be armed. Laws don't stop criminals, armed citizens do!

Good grief, who are you, James Bond?

No! Just a regular citizen, and the name is not James Bond. I just happened to be in the vicinity of unstable people at the wrong times.

Stuff happens at random. Lottery ball 56 has won 15 times but the 2 ball only 3 times. Thus the bad stuff that happens to people all the time is not uniformly distributed among the population. But in one way I sure wish it was uniformly distributed. Because then I would not have had to go through that shit so many times. And more people would know about this, so we would not be having stupid discussions about only banning guns from well adjusted stable law abiding citizens. But on the positive side I am glad more people have not been traumatized due to of all those times it happened to me. So I really don't wish it on anyone else.

Even though I only carry my gun less than 20% of the time. I am much safer, because the criminals have no idea who is or when they are packing. So none have pulled one on me or my friends & family since the ban was lifted. Crime has still happened, but not at gun-point.

 

[daveman]

My proposal is for each school to have a trained first-response team of teachers. They would all be volunteers, and they would all undergo training with the weapons and qualify with them regularly, the way law enforcement and military do. They would carry the weapons on their persons while at the school, so as to be ready to immediately deal with any threat that was posed without having to hassle with going back to their rooms and unlocking a desk or a safe before proceeding to the danger.

I think that's a fine idea. Plus, it should be well-publicized to discourage potential shooters.

Exactly. We may not be able to stop crazy people from executing mass murders, but we can at least take our schools off the list of possible targets.

Somehow, the irrational gun-haters believe that disarming law-abiding citizens will do the same thing.

As I said, they're irrational.

 

[KissMy]

1) Rigorous screening for anyone who wants to buy a new gun.
2) Licenses that need to be renewed for everyone who already has one.
3) Give the ATF some real teeth when going after those who don't comply with the law.

Look, every other industrialized nation except ours limits who can own a gun, they are every bit as free as we are (maybe more so in some respects) and they have a fraction of the gun deaths we have.

This is not rocket science.

It is a social problem! Just like when crime & illegitimate birth rates plummeted after Magic Johnson put the fear of AIDS into the population. People sobered up & stopped free love orgies & sharing IV drug needles. Thus fewer unwanted babies & less crime.

Even though most of us are un-affected by violence on TV & video games, some people really are. Just like most of us would never lie on a loan application, apparently about 10% did lie.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have been listening to the pundits talk about the need to get guns out of the hands of crazy people, and how happy they are that Obama said something needs to be done to stop tragedies like the one today. What, exactly, are the alternatives? We have no way to determine if someone is going to flip out and go on a shooting spree. Even if we did, what are we going to do? If we put them in a database that prevents them from buying a gun what is to stop them from stealing one? Should we require everyone to be tested, and lock everyone who the tests identify as a danger up? Do we really want to create a society that locks people up because they might do something?

The way I see it is we have two choices, either deny everyone freedom, or accept the fact that crazy people are going to do crazy things. If anyone has an actual alternative to those options I would love to hear it.

1) Rigorous screening for anyone who wants to buy a new gun.
2) Licenses that need to be renewed for everyone who already has one.
3) Give the ATF some real teeth when going after those who don't comply with the law.

Look, every other industrialized nation except ours limits who can own a gun, they are every bit as free as we are (maybe more so in some respects) and they have a fraction of the gun deaths we have.

This is not rocket science.

Lets see.

1. Background checks, already done.
2. What kind of licenses?
3. They demonstrated their teeth during WACO when they killed 76 men, women, and children.

Can you explain why the ATF killing 20 children is good, but a guy that steals a gun killing 20 children means we need to give the ATF more power?

 

[asterism]

If you own a gun, you or a member of your family is seven times more likely to die of gun violence. Why? Because a gun in the house is much more likely to be used by an angry spouse or depressed teenager to kill themselves or others, than it is to be used for self defense.

While we're making up statistics:

The above "fact" is said 93% of the time by people with no firearm experience.