The American Combat Rifle

[Publius1787]

I was a kid from New York who never held a rifle bigger than a .22 and I was left handed to boot. The Marines taught me to fire a M-1 Garand right handed and I qualified sharpshooter in Boot Camp.

They did the same to my father. However, when the DI chided him for not being able to shoot my father told him he was left handed. The DI said go ahead and shoot left handed. After coming within a point of the Battalion record he allowed him to stay that way.

Ya they don't like lefties cause the brass ejects to the right. On all the weapons we are discussing. Further with the M1 that hunk of metal that is the clip ejects to the right also.

Sure. However, as a Combat Marksmanship Trainer (New name for PMI), I can tell you that we allow lefties to shoot lefthanded now.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

They did the same to my father. However, when the DI chided him for not being able to shoot my father told him he was left handed. The DI said go ahead and shoot left handed. After coming within a point of the Battalion record he allowed him to stay that way.

Ya they don't like lefties cause the brass ejects to the right. On all the weapons we are discussing. Further with the M1 that hunk of metal that is the clip ejects to the right also.

Sure. However, as a Combat Marksmanship Trainer (New name for PMI), I can tell you that we allow lefties to shoot lefthanded now.

Not as much of a problem as the M1 the M16 and M4 don't eject a huge piece of metal into your face, though the button for fire select and releasing the magazine might be a problem.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The following is from a detailed history of the M 16.

I found it telling in that it identifies the military as one more special interest that requires the oversight to keep it on the straight and narrow.

A defect in the combat rifle would have been allowed to continue, resulting in American combat deaths, had not the Congress done its job.



1. "Despite being described as “the best individual infantry weapon ever made” in 1965, the XM16E1 began to exhibit catastrophic problems in 1966. Reports from the field indicated that U.S. troops in Vietnam were experiencing chronic failures to extract. In the malfunctions, a cartridge’s brass case would seize fast in the chamber and the extractor would tear through the rim.

2. ...into 1967 these malfunctions reached chronic levels and resulted in lives lost on the battlefield. After one especially violent battle, a Marine wrote home to his mother saying “Before we left Okinawa, we were all issued this new rifle, the M16 … practically every one of our dead was found with his rifle torn down next to him where he had been trying to fix it.”



3. On Feb. 28, 1967, the XM16E1 was standardized as the M16A1 rifle at the height of the jamming epidemic when troop confidence in the rifle had reached an all-time low. Amid widespread rumors, word of the problems endemic to the M16A1 soon reached U.S. Congressional leaders.

4. In May, the House Armed Services Committee of the 90th Congress established the Special Subcommittee on the M16 Rifle with Representative Richard Ichord (D-Mo.) as chairman. The three-member “Ichord Committee” immediately went to work during the summer of 1967 investigating the causes of the malfunctions.

5. Although the military attempted to blame the malfunctions on improper cleaning and maintenance, the committee quickly determined that the root cause was ammunition—specifically, gunpowder.




6. When the .223 M193 cartridge was first adopted by the military in September 1963, only DuPont’s IMR 4475 nitrocellulose gunpowder was approved for loading it. As a result of a series of technical challenges that manufacturing the new round presented, a fateful decision was made on April 28, 1964, to allow M193 ammunition to be loaded with Olin Mathieson’s WC 846 ball powder.

7. A double-base nitrocellulose/nitroglycerine propellant, the ball powder exerted higher chamber and gas port pressures and also left behind carbon fouling. The higher gas port pressure resulted in increased cyclic rate—

8. ...high port pressure, high chamber pressure and carbon corrosion were ultimately to blame for the outbreak of XM16E1 extraction failures in Vietnam.



9. When the Ichord Committee submitted its 51-page final report in October, it recommended the withdrawal of Olin Mathieson’s WC 846 ball powder and the immediate introduction of chrome chambers on all production rifles.


10. Thus, at about the same time as the Tet Offensive in early 1968, the often-tragic field malfunctions experienced with the XM16E1 began to fade away."
U.S. M16

The M16 is good for what it was created for but in a hostile environment such as a combat situation the AK47 stands alone as the number one weapon I would whether have.

 

[old navy]

I was a kid from New York who never held a rifle bigger than a .22 and I was left handed to boot. The Marines taught me to fire a M-1 Garand right handed and I qualified sharpshooter in Boot Camp.

They did the same to my father. However, when the DI chided him for not being able to shoot my father told him he was left handed. The DI said go ahead and shoot left handed. After coming within a point of the Battalion record he allowed him to stay that way.

Ya they don't like lefties cause the brass ejects to the right. On all the weapons we are discussing. Further with the M1 that hunk of metal that is the clip ejects to the right also.

That clip also emitted a metallic ping as it was ejected from the rifle. The enemy recognized this as an empty weapon and a sign to attack an un-armed Marine. To counter that, the Marines started flipping metal against their steel pots to make the japs think they were re-loading. This allowed the Marine to light up the enemy who thought he had an easy target.

 

[Ernie S.]

Still love my Garand.

Whatever gets hit stays hit.

An M-14 hits nearly as hard. I do love my .308's

 

[Hollie]

Still love my Garand.

Whatever gets hit stays hit.

An M-14 hits nearly as hard. I do love my .308's

My older brother has a Springfield Armory M-14. I think he said it's a "match grade" (I probably have the term messed up).

If it could cook, he'd marry it.

 

[Publius1787]

Ya they don't like lefties cause the brass ejects to the right. On all the weapons we are discussing. Further with the M1 that hunk of metal that is the clip ejects to the right also.

Sure. However, as a Combat Marksmanship Trainer (New name for PMI), I can tell you that we allow lefties to shoot lefthanded now.

Not as much of a problem as the M1 the M16 and M4 don't eject a huge piece of metal into your face, though the button for fire select and releasing the magazine might be a problem.

I have both an M-14 AND A m-16. Granted, I have much more experience with the M-14 in combat. However, I find that the M-16 is much easier to operate but much harder to maintain. In the end, If I were to choose a combat rifle, I would choose the M-16 for urban warfare and the M-14 for conventional.

 

[usmcstinger]

Sure. However, as a Combat Marksmanship Trainer (New name for PMI), I can tell you that we allow lefties to shoot lefthanded now.

Not as much of a problem as the M1 the M16 and M4 don't eject a huge piece of metal into your face, though the button for fire select and releasing the magazine might be a problem.

I have both an M-14 AND A m-16. Granted, I have much more experience with the M-14 in combat. However, I find that the M-16 is much easier to operate but much harder to maintain. In the end, If I were to choose a combat rifle, I would choose the M-16 for urban warfare and the M-14 for conventional.

I qualified with the M14 in Boot Camp and the 45 at Camp LeJeune.

We were issued M1's at the Infantry Training Regiment located at Camp Geiger. M14's were issued only to members of 2nd Marine Division (the Division never served in Vietnam) and the 1st and 3rd Mar Divs fighting in Vietnam.

I got to fire the M16 at the Replacement Bn located at Camp Pendleton and was issued one when I arrived in Vietnam during June 1967.

The M16 was light and you could carry much more magazines and bandoliers of ammo.

Unfortunately, we were issued M14 magazine pouches which presented some problems.

Being resourceful, any time we were near an Army Unit, we would procure their padded Ammo Belt Suspenders and magazine pouches (3 Magazines per pouch) and we still used the M14 pouches to carry more magazines. The Army Ammo pouches also allowed us to attach 2 grenades to each one (we had grenade holders that rubbed our legs raw).

 

[Bigfoot]

I never had any problems with the M-16. I also think that the guys who want to go on about the AK-47 have never fired one from a prone position.

 

[Swagger]

Sorry, America, but neither the M-14 or M-16 can hold a candle to this old war horse:

Policed the Empire in one form or another for nearly a century; and could take down anything from an elephant to a German officer. Still in use, too.

 

[Sunni Man]

I have never personally meet, or seen a picture of a mercenary (contractor), that when given a choice of weapon to carry; ever choose the M 16 or any variation of that platform.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Sorry, America, but neither the M-14 or M-16 can hold a candle to this old war horse:

Policed the Empire in one form or another for nearly a century; and could take down anything from an elephant to a German officer. Still in use, too.

However the m1 garand kicks the shit out of it.

 

[MikeK]

It's the person behind the rifle that matters most...............

Not if it tends to malfunction if not pampered.

 

[The Gadfly]

It's the person behind the rifle that matters most...............

You don't say. However did I miss this little gem of wisdom from someone who has NO practical experience in the matter? I tell you what; I'll be happy to debate that with you, AFTER the particular rifle YOU are behind malfunctions in the middle of a firefight (assuming you are still around to discuss the event).

 

[Uncensored2008]

The M-14 is probably the best battle rifle the US has had.
The M-16A1 is an excellen assault rifle.

The real problem as I understand it is that the heat on full auto was too much for the rifle, that in semi or burst mode it did fine. The M4 is only selectable to burst.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Still love my Garand.

Whatever gets hit stays hit.

.30-06 kind of has that effect.

 

[9thIDdoc]

The M-14 is probably the best battle rifle the US has had.
The M-16A1 is an excellen assault rifle.

The real problem as I understand it is that the heat on full auto was too much for the rifle, that in semi or burst mode it did fine. The M4 is only selectable to burst.

Early problems:

1. The chrome chambers of the prototype/test mods. were not chromed in the first production runs.
2. The powder used in the 5.56 ammo was changed.
3. It was believed the rifle never needed to be cleaned and cleaning kits were not issued with the rifle.

I found the A-1 to be very reliable with minimal care and feeding. I don't know of any special full auto fire problem except that it's considered to be bad form to be the first to run out of ammo in a firefight.

 

[Sunni Man]

The "meat axe" was a good weapon once the bugs were worked out.

But it's still not the best by far.

 

[Jarlaxle]

My brother (Marine NCO, three tours in Afghanistan & one in Iraq) has firsthand experience with the M-16 and M-4. He considers whoever made the decision to adopt it a murderer. Most glaringly, unless it is SPOTLESSLY clean, it will jam. The M-14 (and AK47) will not. Also, the M-16 will not reliably feed and extract a dented round...the M-14 will.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Still love my Garand.

Whatever gets hit stays hit.

An M-14 hits nearly as hard. I do love my .308's

My older brother has a Springfield Armory M-14. I think he said it's a "match grade" (I probably have the term messed up).

If it could cook, he'd marry it.

Might it be a "National Match" M-14? (They were intended for use my military marksmanship teams.) My wife's friend also has one (I do NOT want to know what that cost), and it is amazing. No semiautomatic rifle should be THAT accurate!