Texas Puts Voter ID in Effect After Supreme Court Ruling

[OohPooPahDoo]

If voter fraud were rampant, they might have a valid argument.

Only if the kind of voter fraud that voter id could prevent is rampant would the argument be valid.

 

[candycorn]

You're missing the point. Those examples are just hypothetical, but you can't have a right and restrict the right to the point of inaccessibility at the same time. It's like saying you the right to read anything you want, but nothing is available to be bought. Either the rights expressly spelled out in the Bill of Rights mean something or they don't.

Well, registration itself is a barrier that some don't want to cross. If we're going to have registration to vote; we should make sure that it means something.

In large elections it will seldom matter but in municipal races or on referendums involving, say, county tax rates, only citizens of that county should be able to vote; not someone showing up who may have a vested interest in the outcome but not live in that county for example.

Again, what I'm proposing is a free Voter Registration Card that has the voter's picture on it so when you show up at the polls, the election workers know Jane Doe is actually Jane Doe.

 

[candycorn]

Isn't it just as bad if one ineligible person gets to vote as one eligible person not getting to vote?

No.

That's hardly the trade off that's happening, though. For every ineligible denied there will be tens or hundreds of eligibles denied.

And if these is no system such as voter id to detect ineligible voters, how can you honestly know that the casting of such votes is not a problem?

We've done without it for over 200 years, not to mention,
the overwhelming majority of illegally cast votes will not be prevented by voter ID. The only purpose of voter ID law is to ensure fewer eligible voters actually get to vote.

That would depend on the type of voter ID you replace the current anonymous piss-poor system with.

A voter ID law won't prevent anyone from voting; on the contrary, I'm all in favor of ensuring that more people are aware of and the process to register to vote is easier while, at the same time, ensuring a level of accountability that is superior to the non-existent accountability system we currently have.

 

[BobPlumb]

Isn't it just as bad if one ineligible person gets to vote as one eligible person not getting to vote?

No.

That's hardly the trade off that's happening, though. For every ineligible denied there will be tens or hundreds of eligibles denied.

And if these is no system such as voter id to detect ineligible voters, how can you honestly know that the casting of such votes is not a problem?

We've done without it for over 200 years, not to mention,
the overwhelming majority of illegally cast votes will not be prevented by voter ID. The only purpose of voter ID law is to ensure fewer eligible voters actually get to vote.

So an illegal vote that is opposite your vote doesn't in effect suppress your vote?

 

[BobPlumb]

Isn't it just as bad if one ineligible person gets to vote as one eligible person not getting to vote?

No.

That's hardly the trade off that's happening, though. For every ineligible denied there will be tens or hundreds of eligibles denied.

And if these is no system such as voter id to detect ineligible voters, how can you honestly know that the casting of such votes is not a problem?

We've done without it for over 200 years, not to mention,
the overwhelming majority of illegally cast votes will not be prevented by voter ID. The only purpose of voter ID law is to ensure fewer eligible voters actually get to vote.

That would depend on the type of voter ID you replace the current anonymous piss-poor system with.

A voter ID law won't prevent anyone from voting; on the contrary, I'm all in favor of ensuring that more people are aware of and the process to register to vote is easier while, at the same time, ensuring a level of accountability that is superior to the non-existent accountability system we currently have.

Is there a level of accountability in place now that will prevent non-citizens from voting?

 

[BobPlumb]

In my state (before voter id) I could hand my voter registration card to some else and let that person vote in my place. How would anyone in authority know that an illegal vote is being cast.?

Murphy's Law -- If something can go wrong it will.

 

[candycorn]

No.

That's hardly the trade off that's happening, though. For every ineligible denied there will be tens or hundreds of eligibles denied.



We've done without it for over 200 years, not to mention,
the overwhelming majority of illegally cast votes will not be prevented by voter ID. The only purpose of voter ID law is to ensure fewer eligible voters actually get to vote.

That would depend on the type of voter ID you replace the current anonymous piss-poor system with.

A voter ID law won't prevent anyone from voting; on the contrary, I'm all in favor of ensuring that more people are aware of and the process to register to vote is easier while, at the same time, ensuring a level of accountability that is superior to the non-existent accountability system we currently have.

Is there a level of accountability in place now that will prevent non-citizens from voting?

Sure there is; just like there is a level of accountability that keeps illegals from getting a social security number. We've seen how well that works since no illegals are here working.

 

[candycorn]

In my state (before voter id) I could hand my voter registration card to some else and let that person vote in my place. How would anyone in authority know that an illegal vote is being cast.?

Murphy's Law -- If something can go wrong it will.

I will disagree with you on that...If something can go wrong it may go wrong. It hasn't yet to a large degree but elections are ripe for the picking.

In our system as to where Presidential elections can turn on one state's electoral votes, someone with sinister intent can target a state or group of states for exploitation and succed rather easily. The State's Secretaries of State offices who are usually charged with voter registration and keeping the voter rolls in tact have, of course, been cut to the bone by rednecks who think we should have no government whatsoever so they can't investigate many claims of irregularieties; forget about most claims.

If someone were really motivated and wanted to target a state and exploit it's lax voter laws, they could.

Why not guard against it while improving the system?

Make it to where you only have to show this one credential--a picture based voter ID card, not the card and a Driver's License?

Have the state contract with post offices, schools, Western Union offices, in addition to the DPS offices to issue these cards on the spot. If a place can offer passport photos why not issue picture voter registrion ID's? Hell, when I was a kid we went to Astroworld on a Season Pass. THEY HAD PICTURE ID's!!!!

What is the downside? You have people who don't want to have their picture taken? Really? Is that the argument? I imagine there are people who want to vote but won't register because they hear it will lead to jury duty and targeting by pollsters. Tough. You've got to register to vote if you want to cast a ballot. Just make the registration include a photo being snapped.

It's insane to have the technology and not use it to ensure our most sacred institutions.

 

[BobPlumb]

That would depend on the type of voter ID you replace the current anonymous piss-poor system with.

A voter ID law won't prevent anyone from voting; on the contrary, I'm all in favor of ensuring that more people are aware of and the process to register to vote is easier while, at the same time, ensuring a level of accountability that is superior to the non-existent accountability system we currently have.

Is there a level of accountability in place now that will prevent non-citizens from voting?

Sure there is; just like there is a level of accountability that keeps illegals from getting a social security number. We've seen how well that works since no illegals are here working.

What is the mechanism used to insure that a non-citizen cannot register to vote?

 

[BobPlumb]

In my state (before voter id) I could hand my voter registration card to some else and let that person vote in my place. How would anyone in authority know that an illegal vote is being cast.?

Murphy's Law -- If something can go wrong it will.

I will disagree with you on that...If something can go wrong it may go wrong. It hasn't yet to a large degree but elections are ripe for the picking.

In our system as to where Presidential elections can turn on one state's electoral votes, someone with sinister intent can target a state or group of states for exploitation and succed rather easily. The State's Secretaries of State offices who are usually charged with voter registration and keeping the voter rolls in tact have, of course, been cut to the bone by rednecks who think we should have no government whatsoever so they can't investigate many claims of irregularieties; forget about most claims.

If someone were really motivated and wanted to target a state and exploit it's lax voter laws, they could.

Why not guard against it while improving the system?

Make it to where you only have to show this one credential--a picture based voter ID card, not the card and a Driver's License?

Have the state contract with post offices, schools, Western Union offices, in addition to the DPS offices to issue these cards on the spot. If a place can offer passport photos why not issue picture voter registrion ID's? Hell, when I was a kid we went to Astroworld on a Season Pass. THEY HAD PICTURE ID's!!!!

What is the downside? You have people who don't want to have their picture taken? Really? Is that the argument? I imagine there are people who want to vote but won't register because they hear it will lead to jury duty and targeting by pollsters. Tough. You've got to register to vote if you want to cast a ballot. Just make the registration include a photo being snapped.

It's insane to have the technology and not use it to ensure our most sacred institutions.

Your plan here makes sense to me; however, the dems will scream voter suppression big time if everyone already registered have to go get picture id voter registration cards.

 

[BobPlumb]

Is there a level of accountability in place now that will prevent non-citizens from voting?

Sure there is; just like there is a level of accountability that keeps illegals from getting a social security number. We've seen how well that works since no illegals are here working.

What is the mechanism used to insure that a non-citizen cannot register to vote?

I'm a little slow today. You are basically agreeing with me it seems.

 

[candycorn]

Sure there is; just like there is a level of accountability that keeps illegals from getting a social security number. We've seen how well that works since no illegals are here working.

What is the mechanism used to insure that a non-citizen cannot register to vote?

I'm a little slow today. You are basically agreeing with me it seems.

I don't know...

I think we should replace State voter ID cards with standardized State voter ID cards that look just like a conventional driver's license featuring a strip on the back that gets swiped that prevents repeat voting and a picture on the front so poll workers can make sure you're Jane Doe when you present yourself as being Jane Doe.

I think the cards should be free of charge to anyone who can prove they are a citizen--just like they are now. I think the cards should be done just in the same model that the Lottery was done; make it profitable to have private businesses offer creation of these cards. Like when you go to Western Union to cash your check, send money, pay bills, have the Western Union lady behind the 19" thick bullet proof glass verify you're citizenship and snap a picture of you; 30 seconds later, a VRC is churned out by the machine. This would be in place of the system we have now where you go to a government office, fill out a form by hand, mail it in and 6-weeks later get your card.

Western Union is just an example; I envision schools, universities, post offices, notaries, Wal*Mart, Target, Ralph's, etc.. all being able to put their shingle out saying "Get your VRC here". It will be free, of course, but you can register to vote where you shop. This will mean more people on the voter rolls, not fewer! I can't tell you the last time I've been to the post office or saw my VRC before last November. But you see the poster for the service at Safeway and you think...I should have that taken care of while I'm here.

I don't know where you stand as to why you want people to show ID.

My reasoning is simple; make the process as sterile as possible. Will there still be fraud? Sure. If you make something idiot proof, they'll make a better idiot--named [MENTION=12394]PoliticalChic[/MENTION] more than likely. Will there be abuse? Sure. Every system in the world is subject to some abuse. You'll still have poll workers who think you're not who the picture says you are and some will have damaged or poorly manufactured cards--just like we do now.

But if the technology is there, readily available, and will cost marginally more than what we have now, why not use it?

Moreover, I don't understand the opposition and their almost comical defense of "What if they don't want their picture taken" or "What if there are no photo booths available? C'mon.

 

[BobPlumb]

I want a system that allows all that are legally eligible to vote to do so while preventing those not legally eligible to vote from voting.

An illegal vote opposite my vote suppresses my vote.

 

[candycorn]

I want a system that allows all that are legally eligible to vote to do so while preventing those not legally eligible to vote from voting.

An illegal vote opposite my vote suppresses my vote.

Or it may double your impact if you agree, right? Just saying.

I think most voting fraud is accidental. If you polling place changes you may catch it but your neighbors may not; they show up to vote, are given a ballot where 90% is identical to the ballot they are supposed to fill out but the other 10% may be district specific or perhaps precinct specific or even party specific. Not knowing any better, they read the initiative and vote yes or no. But when they go back to their house they are not in that district or precinct or even a member of that party.

You're right about vote suppression though.

And just because there hasn't been a devious individaul who seeked to manipulate the process doesn't mean that one is not going to find footing in the future.

 

[BobPlumb]

I want a system that allows all that are legally eligible to vote to do so while preventing those not legally eligible to vote from voting.

An illegal vote opposite my vote suppresses my vote.

Or it may double your impact if you agree, right? Just saying.

I think most voting fraud is accidental. If you polling place changes you may catch it but your neighbors may not; they show up to vote, are given a ballot where 90% is identical to the ballot they are supposed to fill out but the other 10% may be district specific or perhaps precinct specific or even party specific. Not knowing any better, they read the initiative and vote yes or no. But when they go back to their house they are not in that district or precinct or even a member of that party.

You're right about vote suppression though.

And just because there hasn't been a devious individaul who seeked to manipulate the process doesn't mean that one is not going to find footing in the future.

Many believe that one reason that Democrats are so resistant to measures for preventing illegal votes is that they generally benefit from those votes.

 

[Steven_R]

I want a system that allows all that are legally eligible to vote to do so while preventing those not legally eligible to vote from voting.

An illegal vote opposite my vote suppresses my vote.

Or it may double your impact if you agree, right? Just saying.

I think most voting fraud is accidental. If you polling place changes you may catch it but your neighbors may not; they show up to vote, are given a ballot where 90% is identical to the ballot they are supposed to fill out but the other 10% may be district specific or perhaps precinct specific or even party specific. Not knowing any better, they read the initiative and vote yes or no. But when they go back to their house they are not in that district or precinct or even a member of that party.

You're right about vote suppression though.

And just because there hasn't been a devious individaul who seeked to manipulate the process doesn't mean that one is not going to find footing in the future.

Every place I've ever lived matched names at the voting station with precinct rolls. There's no way I could be given a ballot for any place I'm not registered, provided there are no shenanigans and goings on involved.

 

[BobPlumb]

IT has been rumored that Mickey Mouse was able to register to vote back when ACORN was going around doing voter drives. In a system in which a mouse can register; anyone can register.

 

[candycorn]

I want a system that allows all that are legally eligible to vote to do so while preventing those not legally eligible to vote from voting.

An illegal vote opposite my vote suppresses my vote.

Or it may double your impact if you agree, right? Just saying.

I think most voting fraud is accidental. If you polling place changes you may catch it but your neighbors may not; they show up to vote, are given a ballot where 90% is identical to the ballot they are supposed to fill out but the other 10% may be district specific or perhaps precinct specific or even party specific. Not knowing any better, they read the initiative and vote yes or no. But when they go back to their house they are not in that district or precinct or even a member of that party.

You're right about vote suppression though.

And just because there hasn't been a devious individaul who seeked to manipulate the process doesn't mean that one is not going to find footing in the future.

Many believe that one reason that Democrats are so resistant to measures for preventing illegal votes is that they generally benefit from those votes.

I reject that; I think there would be far more elderly prevented for voting by equal application of the rules. Many don't keep track of their expiration date on their driver license, etc... I'm forever having to remind our nurses to re-do their licenses here and these people are in their 40's and 50's.

 

[candycorn]

I want a system that allows all that are legally eligible to vote to do so while preventing those not legally eligible to vote from voting.

An illegal vote opposite my vote suppresses my vote.

Or it may double your impact if you agree, right? Just saying.

I think most voting fraud is accidental. If you polling place changes you may catch it but your neighbors may not; they show up to vote, are given a ballot where 90% is identical to the ballot they are supposed to fill out but the other 10% may be district specific or perhaps precinct specific or even party specific. Not knowing any better, they read the initiative and vote yes or no. But when they go back to their house they are not in that district or precinct or even a member of that party.

You're right about vote suppression though.

And just because there hasn't been a devious individaul who seeked to manipulate the process doesn't mean that one is not going to find footing in the future.

Every place I've ever lived matched names at the voting station with precinct rolls. There's no way I could be given a ballot for any place I'm not registered, provided there are no shenanigans and goings on involved.

And if you gave your name and you were in the right place...great. If you had devious intent and knew Jane Doe lived in that district...what then...you could just give her name.

Again, I don't think having a much more robust system would change anything along the lines of outcomes outside of city council if even that. No way it changes state or federal outcomes. Not enough fraud exists for that.

 

[candycorn]

IT has been rumored that Mickey Mouse was able to register to vote back when ACORN was going around doing voter drives. In a system in which a mouse can register; anyone can register.

There are probably many more dead people expected to vote next year than there are cartoon characters...