OohPooPahDoo
Gold Member
If voter fraud were rampant, they might have a valid argument.
Only if the kind of voter fraud that voter id could prevent is rampant would the argument be valid.
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If voter fraud were rampant, they might have a valid argument.
Only if the kind of voter fraud that voter id could prevent is rampant would the argument be valid.
You're missing the point. Those examples are just hypothetical, but you can't have a right and restrict the right to the point of inaccessibility at the same time. It's like saying you the right to read anything you want, but nothing is available to be bought. Either the rights expressly spelled out in the Bill of Rights mean something or they don't.
Isn't it just as bad if one ineligible person gets to vote as one eligible person not getting to vote?
No.
That's hardly the trade off that's happening, though. For every ineligible denied there will be tens or hundreds of eligibles denied.
And if these is no system such as voter id to detect ineligible voters, how can you honestly know that the casting of such votes is not a problem?
We've done without it for over 200 years, not to mention,
the overwhelming majority of illegally cast votes will not be prevented by voter ID. The only purpose of voter ID law is to ensure fewer eligible voters actually get to vote.
Isn't it just as bad if one ineligible person gets to vote as one eligible person not getting to vote?
No.
That's hardly the trade off that's happening, though. For every ineligible denied there will be tens or hundreds of eligibles denied.
And if these is no system such as voter id to detect ineligible voters, how can you honestly know that the casting of such votes is not a problem?
We've done without it for over 200 years, not to mention,
the overwhelming majority of illegally cast votes will not be prevented by voter ID. The only purpose of voter ID law is to ensure fewer eligible voters actually get to vote.
Isn't it just as bad if one ineligible person gets to vote as one eligible person not getting to vote?
No.
That's hardly the trade off that's happening, though. For every ineligible denied there will be tens or hundreds of eligibles denied.
And if these is no system such as voter id to detect ineligible voters, how can you honestly know that the casting of such votes is not a problem?
We've done without it for over 200 years, not to mention,
the overwhelming majority of illegally cast votes will not be prevented by voter ID. The only purpose of voter ID law is to ensure fewer eligible voters actually get to vote.
That would depend on the type of voter ID you replace the current anonymous piss-poor system with.
A voter ID law won't prevent anyone from voting; on the contrary, I'm all in favor of ensuring that more people are aware of and the process to register to vote is easier while, at the same time, ensuring a level of accountability that is superior to the non-existent accountability system we currently have.
No.
That's hardly the trade off that's happening, though. For every ineligible denied there will be tens or hundreds of eligibles denied.
We've done without it for over 200 years, not to mention,
the overwhelming majority of illegally cast votes will not be prevented by voter ID. The only purpose of voter ID law is to ensure fewer eligible voters actually get to vote.
That would depend on the type of voter ID you replace the current anonymous piss-poor system with.
A voter ID law won't prevent anyone from voting; on the contrary, I'm all in favor of ensuring that more people are aware of and the process to register to vote is easier while, at the same time, ensuring a level of accountability that is superior to the non-existent accountability system we currently have.
Is there a level of accountability in place now that will prevent non-citizens from voting?
In my state (before voter id) I could hand my voter registration card to some else and let that person vote in my place. How would anyone in authority know that an illegal vote is being cast.?
Murphy's Law -- If something can go wrong it will.
That would depend on the type of voter ID you replace the current anonymous piss-poor system with.
A voter ID law won't prevent anyone from voting; on the contrary, I'm all in favor of ensuring that more people are aware of and the process to register to vote is easier while, at the same time, ensuring a level of accountability that is superior to the non-existent accountability system we currently have.
Is there a level of accountability in place now that will prevent non-citizens from voting?
Sure there is; just like there is a level of accountability that keeps illegals from getting a social security number. We've seen how well that works since no illegals are here working.
In my state (before voter id) I could hand my voter registration card to some else and let that person vote in my place. How would anyone in authority know that an illegal vote is being cast.?
Murphy's Law -- If something can go wrong it will.
I will disagree with you on that...If something can go wrong it may go wrong. It hasn't yet to a large degree but elections are ripe for the picking.
In our system as to where Presidential elections can turn on one state's electoral votes, someone with sinister intent can target a state or group of states for exploitation and succed rather easily. The State's Secretaries of State offices who are usually charged with voter registration and keeping the voter rolls in tact have, of course, been cut to the bone by rednecks who think we should have no government whatsoever so they can't investigate many claims of irregularieties; forget about most claims.
If someone were really motivated and wanted to target a state and exploit it's lax voter laws, they could.
Why not guard against it while improving the system?
Make it to where you only have to show this one credential--a picture based voter ID card, not the card and a Driver's License?
Have the state contract with post offices, schools, Western Union offices, in addition to the DPS offices to issue these cards on the spot. If a place can offer passport photos why not issue picture voter registrion ID's? Hell, when I was a kid we went to Astroworld on a Season Pass. THEY HAD PICTURE ID's!!!!
What is the downside? You have people who don't want to have their picture taken? Really? Is that the argument? I imagine there are people who want to vote but won't register because they hear it will lead to jury duty and targeting by pollsters. Tough. You've got to register to vote if you want to cast a ballot. Just make the registration include a photo being snapped.
It's insane to have the technology and not use it to ensure our most sacred institutions.
Is there a level of accountability in place now that will prevent non-citizens from voting?
Sure there is; just like there is a level of accountability that keeps illegals from getting a social security number. We've seen how well that works since no illegals are here working.
What is the mechanism used to insure that a non-citizen cannot register to vote?
Sure there is; just like there is a level of accountability that keeps illegals from getting a social security number. We've seen how well that works since no illegals are here working.
What is the mechanism used to insure that a non-citizen cannot register to vote?
I'm a little slow today. You are basically agreeing with me it seems.
I want a system that allows all that are legally eligible to vote to do so while preventing those not legally eligible to vote from voting.
An illegal vote opposite my vote suppresses my vote.
I want a system that allows all that are legally eligible to vote to do so while preventing those not legally eligible to vote from voting.
An illegal vote opposite my vote suppresses my vote.
Or it may double your impact if you agree, right? Just saying.
I think most voting fraud is accidental. If you polling place changes you may catch it but your neighbors may not; they show up to vote, are given a ballot where 90% is identical to the ballot they are supposed to fill out but the other 10% may be district specific or perhaps precinct specific or even party specific. Not knowing any better, they read the initiative and vote yes or no. But when they go back to their house they are not in that district or precinct or even a member of that party.
You're right about vote suppression though.
And just because there hasn't been a devious individaul who seeked to manipulate the process doesn't mean that one is not going to find footing in the future.
I want a system that allows all that are legally eligible to vote to do so while preventing those not legally eligible to vote from voting.
An illegal vote opposite my vote suppresses my vote.
Or it may double your impact if you agree, right? Just saying.
I think most voting fraud is accidental. If you polling place changes you may catch it but your neighbors may not; they show up to vote, are given a ballot where 90% is identical to the ballot they are supposed to fill out but the other 10% may be district specific or perhaps precinct specific or even party specific. Not knowing any better, they read the initiative and vote yes or no. But when they go back to their house they are not in that district or precinct or even a member of that party.
You're right about vote suppression though.
And just because there hasn't been a devious individaul who seeked to manipulate the process doesn't mean that one is not going to find footing in the future.
I want a system that allows all that are legally eligible to vote to do so while preventing those not legally eligible to vote from voting.
An illegal vote opposite my vote suppresses my vote.
Or it may double your impact if you agree, right? Just saying.
I think most voting fraud is accidental. If you polling place changes you may catch it but your neighbors may not; they show up to vote, are given a ballot where 90% is identical to the ballot they are supposed to fill out but the other 10% may be district specific or perhaps precinct specific or even party specific. Not knowing any better, they read the initiative and vote yes or no. But when they go back to their house they are not in that district or precinct or even a member of that party.
You're right about vote suppression though.
And just because there hasn't been a devious individaul who seeked to manipulate the process doesn't mean that one is not going to find footing in the future.
Many believe that one reason that Democrats are so resistant to measures for preventing illegal votes is that they generally benefit from those votes.
I want a system that allows all that are legally eligible to vote to do so while preventing those not legally eligible to vote from voting.
An illegal vote opposite my vote suppresses my vote.
Or it may double your impact if you agree, right? Just saying.
I think most voting fraud is accidental. If you polling place changes you may catch it but your neighbors may not; they show up to vote, are given a ballot where 90% is identical to the ballot they are supposed to fill out but the other 10% may be district specific or perhaps precinct specific or even party specific. Not knowing any better, they read the initiative and vote yes or no. But when they go back to their house they are not in that district or precinct or even a member of that party.
You're right about vote suppression though.
And just because there hasn't been a devious individaul who seeked to manipulate the process doesn't mean that one is not going to find footing in the future.
Every place I've ever lived matched names at the voting station with precinct rolls. There's no way I could be given a ballot for any place I'm not registered, provided there are no shenanigans and goings on involved.
IT has been rumored that Mickey Mouse was able to register to vote back when ACORN was going around doing voter drives. In a system in which a mouse can register; anyone can register.