Tesla EV uses 7,000 laptop Batteries

[Ernie S.]

I'm an engineer, not a magician, Jim.

 

[mamooth]

It is something to think about, to save us from oil, we must use all the Lithium, in one generation. Without even thinking, that in the future there may be a better use for the Element, LI, Lithium.

First, lithium isn't consumed by car batteries.

Second, If the battery is no longer useful, the lithium in it get recycled. Nobody just tosses an expensive electric car battery into a landful.

Hence, electric cars are not causing any loss of lithium. Other sources do use up lithium, like drugs or disposable lithium batteries.

 

[Ernie S.]

It is something to think about, to save us from oil, we must use all the Lithium, in one generation. Without even thinking, that in the future there may be a better use for the Element, LI, Lithium.

First, lithium isn't consumed by car batteries.

Second, If the battery is no longer useful, the lithium in it get recycled. Nobody just tosses an expensive electric car battery into a landful.

Hence, electric cars are not causing any loss of lithium. Other sources do use up lithium, like drugs or disposable lithium batteries.

Read my link. Recycling Lithium is impracticable at this time.

 

[Old Rocks]

It is something to think about, to save us from oil, we must use all the Lithium, in one generation. Without even thinking, that in the future there may be a better use for the Element, LI, Lithium.

First, lithium isn't consumed by car batteries.

Second, If the battery is no longer useful, the lithium in it get recycled. Nobody just tosses an expensive electric car battery into a landful.

Hence, electric cars are not causing any loss of lithium. Other sources do use up lithium, like drugs or disposable lithium batteries.

Read my link. Recycling Lithium is impracticable at this time.

Uneconomic, not impracticle.

The Lithium Battery Recycling Challenge - Waste Management World

Recycled lithium is as much as five times the cost of lithium produced from the least costly brine based process. It is not competitive for recycling companies to extract lithium from slag, or competitive for the OEMs to buy at higher price points from recycling companies. Though lithium is 100% recyclable, currently, recycled lithium reports to the slag and is currently used for non-automotive purposes, such as construction, or sold in the open-markets. However, with the increasing number of EVs entering the market in the future and with a significant supply crunch, recycling is expected to be an important factor for consideration in effective material supply for battery production.

Closed loop recycling, where the recycled materials are sold back to OEMs, is likely to help against potential price fluctuation of metals or compounds. EV battery recycling is expected to play a significant part of the value chain by 2016 when large quantities of EV batteries will come through the waste stream for recycling.

Projects are currently underway in Europe, the United States and Japan to develop effective and feasible recycling technologies with a complete life cycle analysis of recycling. Early stage partnerships and research programs such as LithoRec and LiBRi with stakeholders across the value chain demonstrate the immediate need to develop comprehensive recycling solutions.

 

[Ernie S.]

Didn't I say that? I'm a Capitalist. If the economic cost of recycling lithium outweighs all other factors, it's impracticable to recycle lithium.
At this point, recycled lithium batteries would damage the environment far worse than making batteries from newly mined material.

Some of the other materials in the cells are economically able to be recycled, notably the cobalt (nasty stuff) but the lithium slag has to be stored.

But not in my back yard.... Right?

 

[Old Rocks]

these electric car threads are laughable........you know these are the same people who went for those big dick pills and internet Turbonators.


God......my life would be rather devoid of humor without these AGW mental cases, and Im not even kidding!!! Not that Im complaining.......this forum would suck without them

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm......................

Tesla S P85D. Room for five passengers in luxury. 0-60 mph in 3.2 seconds. Handling exceeds most cars in it's class. Price is actually below that of most sports luxury sedans. And, daily, more super charging stations are added. As the price of the batteries decrease, and there range increases, the Tesla will be an even more desirable vehicle.

Link liar, link!

You can not demand others to link if we must hound you for your lousy links.

LOL. Got your bowels in an uproar, ol' Fartface? Of course I give you links, lots of links;

2015 Tesla Model S P85D First Test - Motor Trend

Consequently, the easiest way to flatten your retinas at a dragstrip isn't by just stomping on the right pedal. Instead, you draw your foot back and kick the living hell out of it. (I'm serious.) Your foot's flying start at the pedal means the potentiometer opens the battery's electron floodgate that much sooner, and without the teeniest tire chirp, the P85D accelerates at the highest rate the road's mu (its coefficient of friction) allows. It's surreally efficient. And it's so fast off the line that the slower-sampling rate of our two high-frequency GPS data loggers was actually missing some of the action; within the first 1/20th of a sec (not even the "O" in "One Mississippi") the car was already going 0.7 mph. To 30 mph the P85D would be four feet ahead of the fastest-accelerating sedan we've tested, the Audi RS 7, a gap that holds to 60 when the Tesla punches the clock at 3.1 seconds, a tenth quicker than the Audi (as well as the McLaren F1's accepted time -- all of these after subtracting the customary 1-foot rollout). Both cars arrive at the quarter in 11.6 seconds, with the Audi starting to show its higher-speed chops. (The P85D tops out at 155, the RS 7, 174 mph.) Great for the Autobahn, irrelevant in America.

Read more: 2015 Tesla Model S P85D First Test - Motor Trend

Tesla Model S P85D Dual motors AWD 691 hp 3.2 to 60

The dual-motor setup Tesla shaves a second from the already quick P85's 0-60 time. The P85D hits that mark in just 3.2 seconds. That's faster than a Dodge Charger Hellcat or a Porsche Panamera Turbo S. The quarter mile mark arrives in 11.8 seconds. It feels incredible from inside the car—electric motors hum hard and then 60 happens. Almost instantly. Musk said that they benchmarked the McLaren F1 for acceleration performance. If not for the badge in back and the red brake calipers, you'd be hard pressed to tell the P85D from the regular single-motor P85.

 

[Old Rocks]

Didn't I say that? I'm a Capitalist. If the economic cost of recycling lithium outweighs all other factors, it's impracticable to recycle lithium.
At this point, recycled lithium batteries would damage the environment far worse than making batteries from newly mined material.

Some of the other materials in the cells are economically able to be recycled, notably the cobalt (nasty stuff) but the lithium slag has to be stored.

But not in my back yard.... Right?

And? Uneconomic at present. Many things that were uneconomic a few years ago, are presently making somebody a lot of money. Recycling lithium batteries will do the same.

 

[Old Rocks]

Mother lode of lithium discovered in Wyoming BizWest

Mother lode of lithium discovered in Wyoming
by MJ Clark on May 17, 2013


ROCK SPRINGS, Wyo. – Researchers at the University of Wyoming Carbon Management Institute recently were looking for a safe place to store carbon dioxide when they discovered a hidden resource in the briny water 10,000 feet below Rock Springs: lithium.

The briny water has to be removed to make room for the liquid CO2, and cleaning the salts and dissolved minerals from the water was one of the largest hurdles to providing a viable CO2 storage facility.

“Now, with the potential of lithium, we can turn that whole thing into a profit center,´ said CMI director Ron Surdam, adding that the brine “becomes an asset instead of a deficit.”

World-class resource

The best-case scenario is that the entire 2,000-square-mile Rock Springs Uplift could contain up to 18 million tons of lithium: equivalent to about 720 years of current global lithium production. The discovery could have a major impact on the global market, transforming the United States from a significant lithium importer to an independent lithium producer.

Lithium – a key ingredient in batteries – is in short supply in the United States. At present there is only one other lithium mine in the nation, and it can only produce about 30 percent of current domestic demand. Reserves at Rockwood Lithium in Silver Peak, Nev., are estimated to be 118,000 tons in a 20-square-mile area. Preliminary research suggests that a comparable 25-square-mile area of the Rock Springs Uplift could contain 228,000 tons of lithium.

With worldwide demand for lithium increasing at about 10 percent each year, according to U.S. Geologic Survey estimates, lithium mining could be a viable new industry in the region.

The brine the lithium is in is very hot, under very high pressure. Rather than use it for CO2 storage, use it for geo-thermal generation, and shut the coal mines down.

 

[Old Rocks]

Doesn't look to be any shortage of lithium at all.

Simbol Materials Starts Lithium Production at Salton Sea Site

California’s Simbol Materialsis starting domestic commercial production of the world’s highest-purity lithium carbonate, which is used as an electrolyte for electric vehicle batteries and other energy storage devices, the company announced Sept. 28.

The lithium carbonate produced from the company’s 500-metric ton facility near the Salton Sea in California’s Imperial Valley will outdo other sources of not only lithium, but manganese and zinc, in terms of quality and performance, helping ensure that growth of clean energy and technologies in the US continues. Simbol is preparing to extract manganese and zinc, as well as lithium, from the Salton Sea’s geothermal brines, according to the Pleasanton-based company.

With the start of commercial production at its Salton Sea facility, Simbol joins MolyCorp as the only two commercial producers of rare earths in the US. Assuring a ready, cost-effective supply of lithium and other so-called rare earth minerals is crucial to ramping up production of electric vehicles (EVs). At present, China produces 95% of global rare earth mineral production, and it’s been cutting back on exports, as well as nationalizing the operations of its rare earth mineral producers.

 

[westwall]

On the up side, electric cars can generally expect to live out their lives on a single battery. Battery replacement is rare with electric/hybrid vehicles. It's a $4,000-$5,000 smack if the vehicle is out of warranty though.

I have a friend with a hybrid (Prius) he's had to replace his pack once already. I think he got around 70,000 miles from it. As a comparison all of my vehicles have at least 250,000 on them. Well the GT doesn't...but it's special!

 

[Ernie S.]

Didn't I say that? I'm a Capitalist. If the economic cost of recycling lithium outweighs all other factors, it's impracticable to recycle lithium.
At this point, recycled lithium batteries would damage the environment far worse than making batteries from newly mined material.

Some of the other materials in the cells are economically able to be recycled, notably the cobalt (nasty stuff) but the lithium slag has to be stored.

But not in my back yard.... Right?

And? Uneconomic at present. Many things that were uneconomic a few years ago, are presently making somebody a lot of money. Recycling lithium batteries will do the same.

Of course. When lithium can be recycled economically and we don't have toxic slag heaps lying about, by all means use lithium all you want.

 

[Old Rocks]

And other people have had other experiances;

Battery Pack Life Expectancy PriusChat

I had a pack that lasted 220,000 miles. I think what did it in was city driving and having the vehicle sit on the street without a lot of shade for the last 2 years. Heat is what really seems to degrade the pack, and you generate heat going up hills, or with lots of acceleration then regen (think city driving).

Most of my miles were on the interstate, at 75-80 mph, and it's pretty flat here, so I don't think I was stressing the pack a whole lot doing that until I started driving around Minneapolis in summer.

Read more: Battery Pack Life Expectancy PriusChat
Follow us: @PriusChat on Twitter | PriusChat on Facebook

 

[Old Rocks]

Didn't I say that? I'm a Capitalist. If the economic cost of recycling lithium outweighs all other factors, it's impracticable to recycle lithium.
At this point, recycled lithium batteries would damage the environment far worse than making batteries from newly mined material.

Some of the other materials in the cells are economically able to be recycled, notably the cobalt (nasty stuff) but the lithium slag has to be stored.

But not in my back yard.... Right?

And? Uneconomic at present. Many things that were uneconomic a few years ago, are presently making somebody a lot of money. Recycling lithium batteries will do the same.

Of course. When lithium can be recycled economically and we don't have toxic slag heaps lying about, by all means use lithium all you want.

People will use all the lithium they want, in any case, seeing how abundant it is. And someone will find a profitable way to recycle it. That is the beauty of capitalism.

 

[elektra]

these electric car threads are laughable........you know these are the same people who went for those big dick pills and internet Turbonators.


God......my life would be rather devoid of humor without these AGW mental cases, and Im not even kidding!!! Not that Im complaining.......this forum would suck without them

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm......................

Tesla S P85D. Room for five passengers in luxury. 0-60 mph in 3.2 seconds. Handling exceeds most cars in it's class. Price is actually below that of most sports luxury sedans. And, daily, more super charging stations are added. As the price of the batteries decrease, and there range increases, the Tesla will be an even more desirable vehicle.

Link liar, link!

You can not demand others to link if we must hound you for your lousy links.

LOL. Got your bowels in an uproar, ol' Fartface? Of course I give you links, lots of links;

2015 Tesla Model S P85D First Test - Motor Trend

Consequently, the easiest way to flatten your retinas at a dragstrip isn't by just stomping on the right pedal. Instead, you draw your foot back and kick the living hell out of it. (I'm serious.) Your foot's flying start at the pedal means the potentiometer opens the battery's electron floodgate that much sooner, and without the teeniest tire chirp, the P85D accelerates at the highest rate the road's mu (its coefficient of friction) allows. It's surreally efficient. And it's so fast off the line that the slower-sampling rate of our two high-frequency GPS data loggers was actually missing some of the action; within the first 1/20th of a sec (not even the "O" in "One Mississippi") the car was already going 0.7 mph. To 30 mph the P85D would be four feet ahead of the fastest-accelerating sedan we've tested, the Audi RS 7, a gap that holds to 60 when the Tesla punches the clock at 3.1 seconds, a tenth quicker than the Audi (as well as the McLaren F1's accepted time -- all of these after subtracting the customary 1-foot rollout). Both cars arrive at the quarter in 11.6 seconds, with the Audi starting to show its higher-speed chops. (The P85D tops out at 155, the RS 7, 174 mph.) Great for the Autobahn, irrelevant in America.

Read more: 2015 Tesla Model S P85D First Test - Motor Trend

Tesla Model S P85D Dual motors AWD 691 hp 3.2 to 60

The dual-motor setup Tesla shaves a second from the already quick P85's 0-60 time. The P85D hits that mark in just 3.2 seconds. That's faster than a Dodge Charger Hellcat or a Porsche Panamera Turbo S. The quarter mile mark arrives in 11.8 seconds. It feels incredible from inside the car—electric motors hum hard and then 60 happens. Almost instantly. Musk said that they benchmarked the McLaren F1 for acceleration performance. If not for the badge in back and the red brake calipers, you'd be hard pressed to tell the P85D from the regular single-motor P85.

Did you get confused again old crock.

It's about increasing the use of lithium a 1,000,000 times.

How will this effect the costs of medicine.

How will this effect the cost of smartphones.

What will such an extreme increase in lithium do to the commodity market, who will become rich because of government policies.

Old crock, it's about tesla depleting the entire reserves of lithium, overnight.

Democrats suck, they destroy our environment, they do not save it.

 

[elektra]

It is something to think about, to save us from oil, we must use all the Lithium, in one generation. Without even thinking, that in the future there may be a better use for the Element, LI, Lithium.

First, lithium isn't consumed by car batteries.

Second, If the battery is no longer useful, the lithium in it get recycled. Nobody just tosses an expensive electric car battery into a landful.

Hence, electric cars are not causing any loss of lithium. Other sources do use up lithium, like drugs or disposable lithium batteries.

Disposable lithium batteries? Do tell the science that differentiates between disposable and non-disposable, lithium batteries.

 

[Politico]

What is your issue with this elektra?

Umm that a typical hybrid electrics already dump 22 more pounds of Sulfur Dioxide, PCB and other chemical compounds into the atmosphere than a regular car. These will increase that seven fold.

LInk, otherwise just be considered another liar.

Like i said when I explained how hybrid batteries were made. It would not change your agenda.

Advances in batteries energy thread Page 23 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Pick up a book or continue to be viewed as an idiot.

 

[Old Rocks]

Politico

The fact you are arguing when you have no clue how these batteries are made is not surprising. Not that any facts will stop your parroting but here's how it works. Batteries contain lithium, nickel, cobalt and aluminum. Lithium is not a naturally occurring substance. The process of obtaining it pollutes the environment. We don't really have any here so it has to be imported from Argentina and Chile. Same goes for Nickel. That comes from Canada. From there it is shipped via fossil fuels to Japan, China or Korea depending on whether it is being manufactured by Sony or Panasonic who as you certainly don't know produce almost all of them. From there they are shipped back via fossil fuels and put into cars that you don't drive but tell everyone else to, and are recharged each night via more fossil fuels.

To achieve all this stupid the process of making the batteries has resulted in huge clouds of nickel, lead and graphite over these places that be seen from space. It pollutes the water and destroys the Ozone layer. But that's somewhere else so that's ok right? I can guarantee if that shit were hanging over your house you'd be singing a different tune.

...................................................................................................................

And you are still a screwball liar. Lithium mining is probably the cleanest mining in the world. It is obtained from brine, in desert climates where there is little or nothing at all growing. And the US has vast reserves of lithium.

Mother lode of lithium discovered in Wyoming BizWest

The best-case scenario is that the entire 2,000-square-mile Rock Springs Uplift could contain up to 18 million tons of lithium: equivalent to about 720 years of current global lithium production. The discovery could have a major impact on the global market, transforming the United States from a significant lithium importer to an independent lithium producer.

 

[Old Rocks]

these electric car threads are laughable........you know these are the same people who went for those big dick pills and internet Turbonators.


God......my life would be rather devoid of humor without these AGW mental cases, and Im not even kidding!!! Not that Im complaining.......this forum would suck without them

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm......................

Tesla S P85D. Room for five passengers in luxury. 0-60 mph in 3.2 seconds. Handling exceeds most cars in it's class. Price is actually below that of most sports luxury sedans. And, daily, more super charging stations are added. As the price of the batteries decrease, and there range increases, the Tesla will be an even more desirable vehicle.

Link liar, link!

You can not demand others to link if we must hound you for your lousy links.

LOL. Got your bowels in an uproar, ol' Fartface? Of course I give you links, lots of links;

2015 Tesla Model S P85D First Test - Motor Trend

Consequently, the easiest way to flatten your retinas at a dragstrip isn't by just stomping on the right pedal. Instead, you draw your foot back and kick the living hell out of it. (I'm serious.) Your foot's flying start at the pedal means the potentiometer opens the battery's electron floodgate that much sooner, and without the teeniest tire chirp, the P85D accelerates at the highest rate the road's mu (its coefficient of friction) allows. It's surreally efficient. And it's so fast off the line that the slower-sampling rate of our two high-frequency GPS data loggers was actually missing some of the action; within the first 1/20th of a sec (not even the "O" in "One Mississippi") the car was already going 0.7 mph. To 30 mph the P85D would be four feet ahead of the fastest-accelerating sedan we've tested, the Audi RS 7, a gap that holds to 60 when the Tesla punches the clock at 3.1 seconds, a tenth quicker than the Audi (as well as the McLaren F1's accepted time -- all of these after subtracting the customary 1-foot rollout). Both cars arrive at the quarter in 11.6 seconds, with the Audi starting to show its higher-speed chops. (The P85D tops out at 155, the RS 7, 174 mph.) Great for the Autobahn, irrelevant in America.

Read more: 2015 Tesla Model S P85D First Test - Motor Trend

Tesla Model S P85D Dual motors AWD 691 hp 3.2 to 60

The dual-motor setup Tesla shaves a second from the already quick P85's 0-60 time. The P85D hits that mark in just 3.2 seconds. That's faster than a Dodge Charger Hellcat or a Porsche Panamera Turbo S. The quarter mile mark arrives in 11.8 seconds. It feels incredible from inside the car—electric motors hum hard and then 60 happens. Almost instantly. Musk said that they benchmarked the McLaren F1 for acceleration performance. If not for the badge in back and the red brake calipers, you'd be hard pressed to tell the P85D from the regular single-motor P85.

Did you get confused again old crock.

It's about increasing the use of lithium a 1,000,000 times.

How will this effect the costs of medicine.

How will this effect the cost of smartphones.

What will such an extreme increase in lithium do to the commodity market, who will become rich because of government policies.

Old crock, it's about tesla depleting the entire reserves of lithium, overnight.

Democrats suck, they destroy our environment, they do not save it.

Well, definately you are in need of lithium, old boy.

 

[Politico]

Politico

The fact you are arguing when you have no clue how these batteries are made is not surprising. Not that any facts will stop your parroting but here's how it works. Batteries contain lithium, nickel, cobalt and aluminum. Lithium is not a naturally occurring substance. The process of obtaining it pollutes the environment. We don't really have any here so it has to be imported from Argentina and Chile. Same goes for Nickel. That comes from Canada. From there it is shipped via fossil fuels to Japan, China or Korea depending on whether it is being manufactured by Sony or Panasonic who as you certainly don't know produce almost all of them. From there they are shipped back via fossil fuels and put into cars that you don't drive but tell everyone else to, and are recharged each night via more fossil fuels.

To achieve all this stupid the process of making the batteries has resulted in huge clouds of nickel, lead and graphite over these places that be seen from space. It pollutes the water and destroys the Ozone layer. But that's somewhere else so that's ok right? I can guarantee if that shit were hanging over your house you'd be singing a different tune.

...................................................................................................................

And you are still a screwball liar. Lithium mining is probably the cleanest mining in the world. It is obtained from brine, in desert climates where there is little or nothing at all growing. And the US has vast reserves of lithium.

Mother lode of lithium discovered in Wyoming BizWest

The best-case scenario is that the entire 2,000-square-mile Rock Springs Uplift could contain up to 18 million tons of lithium: equivalent to about 720 years of current global lithium production. The discovery could have a major impact on the global market, transforming the United States from a significant lithium importer to an independent lithium producer.

Learn how to properly quote and pick up a book you freaking troll.

 

[mamooth]

Disposable lithium batteries? Do tell the science that differentiates between disposable and non-disposable, lithium batteries.

It's not science. It's economics.

See this? Disposable.

Now, if you can't understand how economies of scale make it worth recycling a car battery but not a little disposable battery ... then you're a typical denier.