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That's what makes me sick about this whole thing. The same people who screamed torture and inhumane treatment because prisoners had underwear placed on their heads, had loud music played to them, or were deprived of sleep - were the same who thought Terri should die this 'peaceful,' 'dignified,' and even 'euphoric' death of starvation. What is that?Shattered said:Jonathan Law
April 2, 2005 LAW0402
Would you favor it if the government suddenly quit feeding and giving liquids to the political detainees being held at Guantánamo Bay, because they had become an expensive nuisance? Or would you take to the streets to protest against the viciousness of it?
wolverine said:That's what makes me sick about this whole thing. The same people who screamed torture and inhumane treatment because prisoners had underwear placed on their heads, had loud music played to them, or were deprived of sleep - were the same who thought Terri should die this 'peaceful,' 'dignified,' and even 'euphoric' death of starvation. What is that?
Adam's Apple said:Unsettled questions. Public opinion: Polls showed very strong opposition to the Republican intervention, but the likelihood is that those polled weren't primarily concerned with Terri Schiavo or Republican overreaching, if that's what it was. They were thinking about themselves and how to avoid being in Terri Schiavo's predicament. Many, too, have pulled the plug on family members and don't want these wrenching decisions second-guessed by the courts or the public.
If this is correct, it means the country has yet to make up its mind on the issue of personhood and whether it is moral and just to remove tube-supplied food and water from people with grave cognitive disabilities. The following candid exchange occurred on Court TV last month in a conversation between author Wesley Smith and bioethicist Bill Allen. Smith: "Bill, do you think Terri is a person?" Allen: "No, I do not. I think having awareness is an essential criterion for personhood." Fetuses, babies, and Alzheimer's patients are only minimally aware and might not fit this definition of personhood, and so would have no claim on our protections. Smith points out that other bioethicists narrow protection further, requiring rationality, the capacity to experience desire, or the ability to value one's own existence. Tighter definitions of personhood expand the number of humans who can be killed without blame or harvested for their organs while still alive. On Court TV, Allen argued that the family could have removed Terri's organs while she was alive, "just as we allow people to say what they want done with their assets." This issue has been hiding behind the Terri Schiavo case for years. Soon it will be out in the open.
I see none of that. :chillpillScreamingEagle said:Astute article Adam's Apple. The ghouls on the Left are definitely salivating now that poor Terri was legally tortured and killed with absolutely no compunction on their part...
sitarro said:I heard an interview with a radiologist the other day that said that Neurologists are great at working on the brain but are not experts at reading ct scans . His opinion (he had viewed over 10,000 scans )was that the scan of Terri's brain was not that different from a normal 80 year old's brain .
I can't understand how anyone can watch the fims that schaivo allowed to be shot during one of the few visits from actual doctors that were allowed to see Terri and not see that she had a functioning brain . Of course that asswipe , judge greer , would not have been able to see any of those films since he is legally blind .How about the recording of her answering her father , how close minded do you have to be to not recognize an attempt to communicate with her Father , or to see the obvious smile on her face when she recognizes her mother . The "doctors" that claimed so matter of fact that she was brain dead are arrogant assholes and should be thrown out of medicine . This woman was murdered and they will all have to live with that fact for the rest of their shitty lives .
The fact that the "husband" didn't allow television , music , sunshine , Catholic Mass , dental care , etc. tells me everything I need to know about him ,the bone scans tell me the rest . He should be tied to a large pile of fire ants and left to be stung to death and that would probably be too good for him.
it was my understanding that those 240 some seconds of film were snipped out of 4 hours of tape. someone correct me if i'm wrong here. 4 minutes? that would seem to fall in line with the claim about random jerkiness, sounds, and the other assorted actions that fall in line with a PVS state. no?sitarro said:I can't understand how anyone can watch the fims that schaivo allowed to be shot during one of the few visits from actual doctors that were allowed to see Terri and not see that she had a functioning brain.
SmarterThanYou said:it was my understanding that those 240 some seconds of film were snipped out of 4 hours of tape. someone correct me if i'm wrong here. 4 minutes? that would seem to fall in line with the claim about random jerkiness, sounds, and the other assorted actions that fall in line with a PVS state. no?
for one, I don't think he was a poor victimized husband. maybe some people out there do, i've never been one of them. for two, most of the things that he allowed to let happen or ignored would have been cause enough for DCF to take custody of terri, if they had done that AT THAT TIME!!! This is where I hold the entire state of florida responsible in part for this tragedy. The parents are not without their fault either. They supposedly had all this knowledge that terri wasn't being properly cared for yet did not notify the authorities, nor did their lawyer or the hospice people (who are medical personnel and bound by law to report abuse if i'm not mistaken).Shattered said:Go look at the pics of her when she was receiving therapy, and treatment, vs. when she wasn't. There is a *major* difference. Had she *continued* receiving treatment, I believe the outcome would have been drastically different.
C'mon.. He wouldn't even allow her *teeth* to be brushed for the last 4-5 *years* (imagine someone forcing you to go 2 days without...). How much of a scum sucking bastard does he have to be, before people stop thinking he's just a poor victimized husband?
im trying to. thats why i'm asking questions.MyName said:you just dont frigging learn
SmarterThanYou said:for one, I don't think he was a poor victimized husband. maybe some people out there do, i've never been one of them. for two, most of the things that he allowed to let happen or ignored would have been cause enough for DCF to take custody of terri, if they had done that AT THAT TIME!!! This is where I hold the entire state of florida responsible in part for this tragedy. The parents are not without their fault either. They supposedly had all this knowledge that terri wasn't being properly cared for yet did not notify the authorities, nor did their lawyer or the hospice people (who are medical personnel and bound by law to report abuse if i'm not mistaken).
Why did the florida legislature drop efforts to rewrite 'terri's law' instead of focusing on a broader based effort to change the state constitution? The law was ruled unconstitutional in 2003 and terri died in 2005. 16 months was more than enough time to put out regular election ticket to amend the constitution for people in terri's position, especially considering that some states did the same for a gay marriage ban amendment in way less time.
I understand that he 'likened' that to therapy, that doesnt actually change the definition of basic care. am I wrong on that? basically, what i'm saying is that something could have been done legally before something was actually attempted legally. The opportunities were there, I believe.Shattered said:Umm.. "allowed" to happen? Nonono, m'dear. He *insisted* upon them. He liked teeth-brushing to "therapy". Nurses used to give her washrags with ice chips in them - he liked that to "therapy". Nurses used to give her balled up pieces of material, and/or small balls to stop her hands from clenching so tightly - he likened that to "therapy". Her mother used to change the decorations in her room from time to time for different sensory stimulation - as soon as they left, he took them down; he likened that to "therapy"...
...the list goes on.
MyName said:Shattered...dont even try. Its a useless cause
SmarterThanYou said:I understand that he 'likened' that to therapy, that doesnt actually change the definition of basic care. am I wrong on that? basically, what i'm saying is that something could have been done legally before something was actually attempted legally. The opportunities were there, I believe.
well then I will do the 'smart' thing and stfu.Shattered said:Only if you allow it to be so.. Perhaps, rather than venting at each other like an old married couple, try talking to each other as strangers...
(I'm a bit selfish - I've seen the rest of the Terri threads locked..one by one...the most recent being because of fighting - I'd rather not see the last one get locked - I'd rather see it die of natural causes)
